What does the Law REALLY say?

JaumeJ · Aug 11, 2014

Faith without works is no faith at all.

Show me someone who says he believes yet cares not to act upon the gift of faith, and I will show you an ingrate, pompous and disrespectulf of the gift of Salvation.

The problem with those who think works is something superhuman trying to replace the free gift of salvation do not realize that works consist for man as simply waiting for the Lord.

Some people pray and weep with others whose hearts are broken by circumstances in this age. We must pray for all people who call on the name of Jesus Christ in spirit and truth.

Yes, obedience is part of faith, for once we receive that free gift, our nature is such we do not desire to trample the Blood of the Lamb of God for any reason. That is there is no reason to trample the Blood of the Lamb. This means we obey God by obeying the new person we are with the Holy Spirit in us to show us to obey the laws on the flesh of our hearts. They were on stone, but no longer. This is undeniable.

If we believe truly, we will rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep. It is our new instinct, our new nature.

Do not pervert the love God has given us all with being bound by the law, for we no longer have sin imputed to us, and what is sin? Is it not breaking the law? Do not trample the Blood of our Salvation, it is our only hope at any level.

Jesus teaches us to obey the commandments of God, and God is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Think on that, for it is truth; I do not lie.

BradC · Aug 11, 2014

Being under the law of commandments could never produce the fruit of the Spirit. Keeping the Sabbath does not produce the fruit of the Spirit. To not lie, steal, murder, bear false witness or commit adultery does not produce the fruit of the Spirit. It will produce morality but not the fruit of spirituality. If we follow the law perfectly, it will not produce the fruit of the Spirit. If we be led of the Spirit we are not under the law (Gal 5:18). This verse is not speaking of the condemnation of the law but the law itself with all of its restraints. To be led by the Spirit far exceeds being under the law. To be under the law instead of being led by the Spirit is to be under the letter and that is legalism.

quote: 'The believer that renounces the flesh must renounce the law also. The flesh and the law are closely allied, whereas the flesh and the Spirit are diametrically opposed to one another' :unquote

To live under the law you must do so according to the flesh but to be under grace we do so according to being lead by the Spirit. We will never become adult sons if we remain under the law, only through the Spirit can we become God's sons. It is the Spirit within that bears witness with our spirit that we are the children of God, the law does not bear witness of any sonship whether born into or through adoption. The law bears witness that we are sinners and that sin is exceedingly sinful. No believer can live under the law through being led of the Spirit because of the flesh. The flesh profits nothing and to live under the law through the flesh profits nothing.

cfultz3 · Aug 11, 2014

BradC said:

Being under the law of commandments could never produce the fruit of the Spirit. Keeping the Sabbath does not produce the fruit of the Spirit. To not lie, steal, murder, bear false witness or commit adultery does not produce the fruit of the Spirit. It will produce morality but not the fruit of spirituality. If we follow the law perfectly, it will not produce the fruit of the Spirit. If we be led of the Spirit we are not under the law (Gal 5:18). This verse is not speaking of the condemnation of the law but the law itself with all of its restraints. To be led by the Spirit far exceeds being under the law. To be under the law instead of being led by the Spirit is to be under the letter and that is legalism.

quote: 'The believer that renounces the flesh must renounce the law also. The flesh and the law are closely allied, whereas the flesh and the Spirit are diametrically opposed to one another' :unquote

To live under the law you must do so according to the flesh but to be under grace we do so according to being lead by the Spirit. We will never become adult sons if we remain under the law, only through the Spirit can we become God's sons. It is the Spirit within that bears witness with our spirit that we are the children of God, the law does not bear witness of any sonship whether born into or through adoption. The law bears witness that we are sinners and that sin is exceedingly sinful. No believer can live under the law through being led of the Spirit because of the flesh. The flesh profits nothing and to live under the law through the flesh profits nothing.

Very well said.

But, let us not forget that the Law is still there in our minds/hearts and is that which desires us to do that which is good.

Let us, therefore, die to the Law and its dictates to our flesh and receive a renewal of spirit so that we can spiritually serve God's Law with the mind/conscious, seeing that those who are spiritual do tend to the things from the Spirit.

Very well said.

phil112 · Aug 11, 2014

cfultz3 said:

I take you are speaking of the perfect law of liberty. The law He wrote in our hearts and our minds is our conscience, not old testament law.

Brother_Don · Aug 11, 2014

i really feel for those trying to teach others the law is obsolete, since we are saved by grace. my heart really really go's out to those being deceived by this teaching. It looks like little johnny is playing in the sandbox, up walks tommy, and says lets throw all the sand out in the yard, johnny refuses, saying the sand will disapear in the grass, lets keep it here. and they played happily, keeping the sand in, and not loosing it in the grass.

BradC · Aug 11, 2014

JaumeJ said:

Faith without works is no faith at all.

Show me someone who says he believes yet cares not to act upon the gift of faith, and I will show you an ingrate, pompous and disrespectulf of the gift of Salvation.

The problem with those who think works is something superhuman trying to replace the free gift of salvation do not realize that works consist for man as simply waiting for the Lord.

Some people pray and weep with others whose hearts are broken by circumstances in this age. We must pray for all people who call on the name of Jesus Christ in spirit and truth.

Yes, obedience is part of faith, for once we receive that free gift, our nature is such we do not desire to trample the Blood of the Lamb of God for any reason. That is there is no reason to trample the Blood of the Lamb. This means we obey God by obeying the new person we are with the Holy Spirit in us to show us to obey the laws on the flesh of our hearts. They were on stone, but no longer. This is undeniable.

If we believe truly, we will rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep. It is our new instinct, our new nature.

Do not pervert the love God has given us all with being bound by the law, for we no longer have sin imputed to us, and what is sin? Is it not breaking the law? Do not trample the Blood of our Salvation, it is our only hope at any level.

Jesus teaches us to obey the commandments of God, and God is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Think on that, for it is truth; I do not lie.

There are many NT commandments that far exceed the the old law of commandments and you never make reference to obeying and keeping them in any of your post. WHY IS THAT? I have given some examples of NT commandments and you just ignore them like they don't exist or fall short of comparing to those of the old. Do you prefer the old over and against the new?

cfultz3 · Aug 11, 2014

phil112 said:

I speak of the Law. The Law He Himself wrote upon our hearts and minds. The Law which is fulfilled by the command our Lord has given us: Love. By which Love, the Law if fulfilled, the Law of our mind.

Compassion will cause no offense. Therefore, through Love, we will not be offensive towards God and others.

Compassion will cause no harm. Therefore, through Love, we do not kill, steal, lie.

Compassion will do no evil. Therefore, through Love, we do serve God's Law with our mind.

Funny thing about 'offense' is that it causes 'harm' to those it is done towards. Funny thing about 'harm' is that it is the pinnacle definition of 'evil'. Funny thing about 'evil' is that it is that which is the opposite of what God's Law says.

So yes, I am speaking about that Law which God has placed in our mind to desire us to do good so that we will do no offense, so that we will cause no harm, so that we do no evil. Which, in conclusion, is really the Will of God, the same Will our Lord and Savior asks us to do through Love.

The Law of Liberty! Oh, yes!!! I am free from the Law of my body members which brought death through sin (fulfilling the Law through flesh). But, I thank God through Jesus Christ that I myself can now serve God's Law through my mind (fulfilling the Law through spirit) and not through my body members. How I have been liberated from this body of death.

JaumeJ · Aug 11, 2014

Oh that really hurts!

Now learn the laws, read what I have already posted about how Jesus Christ has made it clear which laws to observe, and finally when you learn the laws of the Old Testament, you will be surprised to find, everything Jesus taught as pertaining to law in the New Testament is already in the Old Testamen.

I say you will be surprised, because you do not know the Old Testament or you would not be dogging others who have spent years reading the entire Word.

You are the one who is totally suspect. Your accusations demonstrate your condition, and this is a crying shame.

Stop bothering those who do not mind doing their due in pleasing God, and start doing the same.

BradC said:

Brother_Don · Aug 11, 2014

What if!!!

just-me · Aug 11, 2014

cfultz3 said:

I speak of the Law. The Law He Himself wrote upon our hearts and minds. The Law which is fulfilled by the command our Lord has given us: Love. By which Love, the Law if fulfilled, the Law of our mind.

Compassion will cause no offense. Therefore, through Love, we will not be offensive towards God and others.

Compassion will cause no harm. Therefore, through Love, we do not kill, steal, lie.

Compassion will do no evil. Therefore, through Love, we do serve God's Law with our mind.

Funny thing about 'offense' is that it causes 'harm' to those it is done towards. Funny thing about 'harm' is that it is the pinnacle definition of 'evil'. Funny thing about 'evil' is that it is that which is the opposite of what God's Law says.

So yes, I am speaking about that Law which God has placed in our mind to desire us to do good so that we will do no offense, so that we will cause no harm, so that we do no evil. Which, in conclusion, is really the Will of God, the same Will our Lord and Savior asks us to do through Love.

The Law of Liberty! Oh, yes!!! I am free from the Law of my body members which brought death through sin (fulfilling the Law through flesh). But, I thank God through Jesus Christ that I myself can now serve God's Law through my mind (fulfilling the Law through spirit) and not through my body members. How I have been liberated from this body of death.

Very well put. see my thread http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/97318-false-doctrine-like-herbicide.html

The thread shows that there are some who hate endorsing this substantial part of God's holy Word. Sad news for this is exactly what Satan wants in order to destroy with falsehood, making it look like the truth. Half truth is no truth.

cfultz3 · Aug 11, 2014

BradC said:

There are many NT commandments that far exceed the the old law of commandments and you never make reference to obeying and keeping them in any of your post. WHY IS THAT? I have given some examples of NT commandments and you just ignore them like they don't exist or fall short of comparing to those of the old. Do you prefer the old over and against the new?

What does Love fulfill?

KohenMatt · Aug 11, 2014

VOWS

92 Numbers 6:5 - The Nazirite letting his hair grow during his separation.
All the days of the vow of his separation there shall no razor come upon his head: until the days be fulfilled, in the which he separateth himself unto the Lord, he shall be holy, and shall let the locks of the hair of his head grow.

93 Numbers 6:18 – Nazirite completing vow shaves his head and brings sacrifice.
And the Nazarite shall shave the head of his separation at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and shall take the hair of the head of his separation, and put it in the fire which is under the sacrifice of the peace offerings.

94 Deuteronomy 23:21 - On that a man must honor his oral vows and oaths.
When thou shalt vow a vow unto the Lord thy God, thou shalt not slack to pay it: for the Lord thy God will surely require it of thee; and it would be sin in thee.

95 Numbers 30:8 - On that a judge can annul vows, only according to Torah.
But if her husband disallowed her on the day that he heard it; then he shall make her vow which she vowed, and that which she uttered with her lips, wherewith she bound her soul, of none effect: and the Lord shall forgive her.

KohenMatt · Aug 11, 2014

dcontroversal said:

Thanks brother.

Elin · Aug 11, 2014

Brother_Don said:

The law is not "obsolete," the old covenant is obsolete (Heb 8:13),
the law has been set aside (Heb 7:18-19).

And that makes you feeling for the NT writers who reveal that

the law has been set aside by God because it was weak and useless to obtain righteousness
(Heb 7:18-19),
the law of Moses has been replaced (1Co 9:20) with the law of Christ (Mt 23:37-39; 1Co 9:21; Gal 6:2),
and the law of Christ fulfills (accomplishes) the law (Mt 23:40; Ro 13:8-10; Gal 5:6).

I don't feel for the NT writers, I believe them, and receive their revelation with joy.

And now the NT Word of God (Mt 23:37-40; 1Co 9:20-21; Rom 13:8-10; Gal 5:6, 6:2) deceives.

You are feeling for the wrong ones.

Elin · Aug 11, 2014

JaumeJ said:

Everything he taught is already in the OT, but he didn't teach everything in the OT.

Some of the things he taught that are in the OT are:

1) there is no unclean food (Ge 9:3; Mk 7:19),
2) those who do not apply the remedy (faith in the blood of jesus Christ--Ro 3:25)
for their sin (Lev 17:16), have no other sacrifice to cleanse their guilt and so
die in their sin (Jn 3:36).
3) capital punishment (Ge 9:6; Lev 20; Nu 35:33; Mt 26:52)--
where "lives by the sword" is the one who murders,
and "dies by the sword" is the governing authorities (Ro 13:3-5),
4) unregenerate nature is evil (Ge 6:5; Mt 7:11),
5) deal radically with your sin (Lev 1:5, 11; Mk 9:43-48).

Some of the things he taught that are not taught in the OT are:

1) love fulfills (accomplishes) the law (Mt 23:27-40),
2) anger is murder in the heart (Mt 5:21-22),
3) those who live in unforgiveness will die in unforgiveness (Mt 6:12).

RedTent · Aug 11, 2014

psychomom said:

This is beating a dead horse. No one talks about it but the people dead set against any work for the Lord. If you all don't want to do this dangerous stuff of working for the Lord, don't work, but for goodness sakes, don't keep telling about how dangerous and awful any work is over and over, everyone is tired of hearing about it. It is as if only you privileged people who hate working for the Lord know that it isn't work that saves and you keep hammering on the same old tune trying to make yourselves righteous by what you consider such privileged knowledge.

JaumeJ · Aug 11, 2014

It is written in the Word, the Old Testament, that God's mercy is fresh each morning.

David and his men ate of the show bread when the laws were against any but the priest.

David was a murderer, and adulterer, and probably much more.

Forget Solomon with his wives and condubines, not to mention the enormous wealth he accumulated to himself.

These men, along with many others we are taught of, knew grace, as we witness even today from the Psalms they wrote down.

Blessed is he to whom God does not impute sin, whose transgression is covered. There is much more in the entire Word, taught by Jesus Christ from Genesis through Revelation, which allows for certain of the laws to be overlooked, those punitive to death, however it was not made clear to all men until Jesus Christ came in the flesh to save all who come to Him in Spirit and Truth.

It is painful, the web of deceit woven in the clerical world that hides the truth of the Old and the New Testament from so many innocent eyes. Wake yourselves and know that before Abraham was I Am, our Lord, amen.

BradC · Aug 11, 2014

JaumeJ said:

Jesus said that we are to come and learn of Him for He is meek and lowly in heart (Mt 11:28,29). He did not say come to Him and learn the law, He said come and learn of me for I am meek and lowly in heart. He also said to take on His yoke so that we could find rest for our souls and not the yoke of the law which carried the burden of strengthening sin (1 Cor 15:56). His words are Spirit and life (Jn 6:63) and we are to be yoked up with Him through His words and His Spirit and not with the law. Keeping the Sabbath is nothing and is obsolete compared to the commandment given by our Lord to, 'Come unto me'. Over (20) times it is recorded and in those (20+) times not once does He give the law to anyone that comes to Him. He gives them life, His life, resurrection life, the ascended life from above and that life has nothing to do with the law whatsoever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The NT commandment to be led by the Spirit is what we are to keep for we are not under the OT law nor its condemnation for we have passed from the death of the OT law and its condemnation unto the life of the Spirit who reveals Christ in us the hope of glory (Col 1:27) so that we might know the things that are freely given unto us of God (1Cor 2:12)

As a Christian who believes in Yeshua, the natural man can live by and under the law through the flesh and be happy and fulfilled morally but will never be able to receive the things of the Spirit for they are spiritually discerned and appropriated by faith and not by the deeds of the law. Being spiritual and feeling spiritual by keeping the law are not the same. Being spiritual is being led and filled with the Spirit who reveals Christ in us and guides us into the truth, but feeling spiritual by keeping the law is abstaining and conforming the flesh to make one feel that they have the flesh under control, which is legalism.

This is why Jesus said in (Mt 5:28) that you have heard it said 'thou shalt not commit adultery' (having the flesh under control) but I have said that if you look upon a woman to lust after her you have committed adultery with her already in your heart (whereby we must be led by the Spirit in our heart not to fulfill the lust of the flesh). You have to spiritually discern what Jesus is saying, who was filled with the Spirit. We have been given the Spirit for a reason and one of them is to not fulfill the lust of the flesh and that can not be done by keeping the law for that would be the flesh and not the Spirit.

JaumeJ · Aug 11, 2014

In the beginning was the Word............Jesus Christ. He is all of the Word.

RedTent · Aug 11, 2014

BradC said:

QUOTE] First, you say to learn of Him, as if that is what you believe. Then you say that you must not learn anything of Him if it has anything to do with what you, personally, decide is law and bible says is Torah or instructions. So, don't learn from most of the Sermon on the Mount, don't learn anything from Moses, etc. Make up your mind!!!

What does the Law REALLY say?

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