Trinity?

[TruthFromFrank]

Originally Posted by Kerry

Elohim is the term used by all creation to acknowledge God, after the fall He became Jehovah or YHWH meaning Father.AS He is the Father he had a son and sent Him to redeem us. In Fact 1 of the Trinity became a man by child birth, Jesus was born of a virgin and Jesus had the DNA of a human and God. He prayed to the Father and relied on the Holy Spirit. To read the bible and not say a Godhead is foolish. Paul refers to the God head and he only had the OT to go by.


Kerry did not say that they could do DNA tests in Jesus' time. He said that "Jesus had the DNA of a human AND God." There is a difference between the two statements. Dont twist people's sentences into something that they did not say. The Trinity consists of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Matthew 3:16-17 states: And Jesus,when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water, and lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Holy Spirit descending like a dove, and lightning upon him; and lo, a voice (God) from heaven spake, saying this is my beloved son in whom I am well-pleased.

There are currently two Tetragrammatons namely JHVH and JHWH. This already causes a huge problem as a difference here already indicates there are two possible names given to God. For mankind to add any other letters in between to give it some pronounceable name and to call God that name which might be vulgar in His opinion, is a huge problem. If God wanted everybody to know His Name, He would have provided it to us in His Word but it is not there which tells me, that He does not want everybody to know what His real Name is.

Referring to a medical term DNA is a relative new term and we cannot link that to God and make a statement about it. That is all I am trying to point out. I am not twisting any words here.

The Trinity term refers to Three separate Gods and you have just commented on it like that as well. You cannot prove that to me from the Bible that there are three separate Gods. The Trinity teaching comes from the Roman Catholic Church and is a non-Biblical teaching. Kindly provide me your studies on the Trinity concept as I would really like to see what you have to say about it, obviously with texts from the Bible only.

 

[TruthFromFrank]

(2) Yahweh (YHWH): Comes from a verb which means “to exist, be.” This, plus its usage, shows that this name stresses God as the independent and self-existent God of revelation and redemption (Gen. 4:3; Ex. 6:3 (cf. 3:14); 3:12).
Compounds of Yahweh: Strictly speaking, these compounds are designations or titles which reveal additional facts about God’s character.

• Yahweh Jireh (Yireh): “The Lord will provide.” Stresses God’s provision for His people (Gen. 22:14).
• Yahweh Nissi:“The Lord is my Banner.” Stresses that God is our rallying point and our means of victory; the one who fights for His people (Ex. 17:15).
• Yahweh Shalom:“The Lord is Peace.” Points to the Lord as the means of our peace and rest (Jud. 6:24).
• Yahweh Sabbaoth:“The Lord of Hosts.” A military figure portraying the Lord as the commander of the armies of heaven (1 Sam. 1:3; 17:45).
• Yahweh Maccaddeshcem: “The Lord your Sanctifier.” Portrays the Lord as our means of sanctification or as the one who sets believers apart for His purposes (Ex. 31:13).
• Yahweh Ro’i: “The Lord my Shepherd.” Portrays the Lord as the Shepherd who cares for His people as a shepherd cares for the sheep of his pasture (Ps. 23:1).
• Yahweh Tsidkenu: “The Lord our Righteousness.” Portrays the Lord as the means of our righteousness (Jer. 23:6).
• Yahweh Shammah: “The Lord is there.” Portrays the Lord’s personal presence in the millennial kingdom (Ezek. 48:35).
• Yahweh Elohim Israel: “The Lord, the God of Israel.” Identifies Yahweh as the God of Israel in contrast to the false gods of the nations (Jud. 5:3.; Isa. 17:6).

(5) Kurios: Greek word translated “Lord.” Stresses authority and supremacy. While it can mean sir (John 4:11), owner (Luke 19:33), master (Col. 3:22), or even refer to idols (1 Cor. 8:5) or husbands (1 Pet. 3:6), it is used mostly as the equivalent of Yahweh of the Old Testament. It too is used of Jesus Christ meaning (1) Rabbi or Sir (Matt. 8:6); (2) God or Deity (John 20:28; Acts 2:36; Rom. 10:9; Phil. 2:11). (**Source=Names of God**)

From which book did you get this information as my Bible (KJV) does not quote those names at all?

 

[BlackPlatypus]

From which book did you get this information as my Bible (KJV) does not quote those names at all?

They're all books in the KJV bible.

This reference might assist.

 

[goodnewsanonomys]

I saw this jeopardy episode and the final question was what is the most accurate english translated bible of the original scriptures, no one got it right and alex trebek said it was the new world translation Of the holy scriptures (jehovahs witnesses bible). How bout picking up this bible cause it is not changed, rendered, or tampered with..they did not repllace jehovah with lord like all the other bible..read psalms 38:18

 

[Bowman]

There is NO truth....from....frank....

Prove your statement with texts from the Bible. There is NO Trinity.

Because if you confess the Lord Jesus with your mouth, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.(Romans 10.9)


Who raised Jesus from the dead?

· God the Father… Acts 3.26; Eph 1.15-20; Gal 1.1; 1 Thes 1.9-10

· God the Son…John 2.19-22; 10.17-18; Romans 6.4

· God the Spirit…Romans 8.11; 1 Peter 3.18

· The Trinity…Romans 10.9; Peter 1.20-21; Hebrews 13.20-21; 1 Cor 6.14; Col 2.11-12; Acts 2.23-24; 2.32; 3.14-15; 13.30-37


Thus…you will be saved if you believe in The Triune God, as revealed in scripture.

Simple, Biblical truth.

 

[newbirth]

Re: There is NO truth....from....frank....

Because if you confess the Lord Jesus with your mouth, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.(Romans 10.9)


Who raised Jesus from the dead?

· God the Father… Acts 3.26; Eph 1.15-20; Gal 1.1; 1 Thes 1.9-10

· God the Son…John 2.19-22; 10.17-18; Romans 6.4

· God the Spirit…Romans 8.11; 1 Peter 3.18

· The Trinity…Romans 10.9; Peter 1.20-21; Hebrews 13.20-21; 1 Cor 6.14; Col 2.11-12; Acts 2.23-24; 2.32; 3.14-15; 13.30-37


Thus…you will be saved if you believe in The Triune God, as revealed in scripture.

Simple, Biblical truth.

John 10:18Living Bible (TLB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]No one can kill me without my consent—I lay down my life voluntarily. For I have the right and power to lay it down when I want to and also the right and power to take it again. For the Father has given me this right.”

 

[Bowman]

Re: There is NO truth....from....frank....

John 10:18Living Bible (TLB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]No one can kill me without my consent—I lay down my life voluntarily. For I have the right and power to lay it down when I want to and also the right and power to take it again. For the Father has given me this right.”

Again...and?

You keep tossing out scripture like you have a point.....but you don't quite know what it is...

 

[BlackPlatypus]

I saw this jeopardy episode and the final question was what is the most accurate english translated bible of the original scriptures, no one got it right and alex trebek said it was the new world translation Of the holy scriptures (jehovahs witnesses bible). How bout picking up this bible cause it is not changed, rendered, or tampered with..they did not repllace jehovah with lord like all the other bible..read psalms 38:18

Question: "Is the New World Translation a valid version of the Bible?"
The New World Translation is unique in one thing – it is the first intentional, systematic effort at producing a complete version of the Bible that is edited and revised for the specific purpose of agreeing with a group's doctrine. The Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Watchtower Society realized that their beliefs contradicted Scripture. So, rather than conforming their beliefs to Scripture, they altered Scripture to agree with their beliefs. The “New World Bible Translation Committee” went through the Bible and changed any Scripture that did not agree with Jehovah’s Witness theology. This is clearly demonstrated by the fact that, as new editions of the New World Translation were published, additional changes were made to the biblical text. As biblical Christians continued to point out Scriptures that clearly argue for the deity of Christ (for example), the Watchtower Society would publish new editions of the New World Translation with those Scriptures changed. Here are some of the more prominent examples of intentional revisions:......)CONTINUES(

 

[newbirth]

Re: There is NO truth....from....frank....

Again...and?

You keep tossing out scripture like you have a point.....but you don't quite know what it is...

The point is there is no trinity there....

 

[TruthFromFrank]

Re: There is NO truth....from....frank....

Because if you confess the Lord Jesus with your mouth, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.(Romans 10.9)


Who raised Jesus from the dead?

· God the Father… Acts 3.26; Eph 1.15-20; Gal 1.1; 1 Thes 1.9-10

· God the Son…John 2.19-22; 10.17-18; Romans 6.4

· God the Spirit…Romans 8.11; 1 Peter 3.18

· The Trinity…Romans 10.9; Peter 1.20-21; Hebrews 13.20-21; 1 Cor 6.14; Col 2.11-12; Acts 2.23-24; 2.32; 3.14-15; 13.30-37


Thus…you will be saved if you believe in The Triune God, as revealed in scripture.

Simple, Biblical truth.

The word Trinity never appears in any of your texts quoted. There are NO THREE SEPARATE GODS as that is what the Trinity concept is and being taught by all churches.

1. Jesus is the Son of God.

John 1:34 – “And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.
Mat 3:17 - “And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”

1. For the Salvation Plan to work, Jesus Christ had to give up His Godly status and become man and live among the people to tell and show them the way to God.

John 1:14 - “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt amongst us, ( ) full of grace and truth.” It confirms here that Jesus Christ was an invisible being before He became a tangible being.

1 Tim. 2:5 – “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Jesus Christ.” Jesus was a God before but He has given up His Godly status when He became man.

1. Jesus died on the cross as man and NOT as God or a God.

Mark 15:39 – “And when the Centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.”

1Tim2:5 - “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.”

Luke 23:47 - “Now when the centurion saw what was done, he glorified God, saying, Certainly this was a righteous man.”

1. Jesus was resurrected by God and was made High Priest to sit on His right hand side.

Heb. 5:5 - “So also Christ glorified not himself to be made a high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, today have I begotten thee." So God glorified Jesus Christ.

1 Pet 3:22 - “Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.” Jesus is now sitting on the right had side of God. Nobody on the left had side. Only two entities at the moment.

1. Jesus received some of His deity back.

John 7:39 – “But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given: because that Jesus was not yet glorified.” It proves here that the Holy Spirit did not exist on earth and only when Jesus Christ was glorified, did He receive his omni-potency back to have the ability to be in heaven as our mediator whilst at the same time could be on this earth as the Holy Spirit.

1. God sends the Comforter, the Spirit of Truth to this earth to live in man.

Gal 4:6 – “And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.”

Could this ‘Spirit of His Son’ be Jesus Christ in spirit, as the Holy Spirit in the world today?

1. Counsel of peace between God and Jesus Christ, the high priest and Son of God.

Rev. 22:3 – “And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve Him.” There will only be two thrones. If a Trinity exists there should be Three thrones.

Zech 6:13 – “Even he shall build the temple of the Lord; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne; and the counsel of peace between them both.” Please note the ‘both’word at the end of the text which implicates that only two entities, God the Father and His son Jesus Christ, exists . There will be no other third party to the God-head on the New Earth.

1. In the beginning God and Jesus Christ, the Son, existed as Gods in heaven.

John 1:1 – “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

John 17:5 – “And now, O Father glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory I had with thee before the world was.”
Here we have confirmation that the Word was God which means that when He became man, He has given up His Godly status. The next text Jesus confirms the glory that He had when He was with His Father.

To sum this all up, God is the Holy Spirit, Jesus was a God and a Holy Spirit but has given that up when He became man and is now sitting on the right hand side of God as High Priest and Son of God and NOT God. The power of the Holy Spirit, God, who worked through Jesus Christ on earth, is now still working through Jesus Christ on this earth in man as the Holy Spirit. There is no third separate entity. which explains the two thrones and not three, also the counsel between two and not three and it also gels with the text that refers to Jesus saying to the people that where two or more gather in His Name, He will be there and not somebody else. I hope this all makes sense to you as I cannot explain it more clearer. We need to do our studies with the logic that God has given us.

 

[Bowman]

Re: There is NO truth....from....frank....

The point is there is no trinity there....

I showed you scripture stating that each Person of The Trinity was responsible for raising Jesus from the dead....and you completely ignored ALL of theses scriptures.

You have nothing.

 

[Bowman]

Re: There is NO truth....from....frank....

The word Trinity never appears in any of your texts quoted.

Its right next to the word 'monad'.

There are NO THREE SEPARATE GODS as that is what the Trinity concept is and being taught by all churches.

Your three separate gods concept is YOUR assertion, this in NOT The Trinity.

However, if this is your stance, then prove it from scripture.

 

[Tintin]

[video=youtube;KQLfgaUoQCw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQLfgaUoQCw[/video]

Troublesome analogies used to try to explain the Trinity lead to false teachings, but the Trinity itself is a biblically true understanding concerning the Godhead.

 

[TruthFromFrank]

Re: There is NO truth....from....frank....

Its right next to the word 'monad'.








Your three separate gods concept is YOUR assertion, this in NOT The Trinity.

However, if this is your stance, then prove it from scripture.

I have just done that, did you not read it? The Trinity concept started by the RCC and is fully explained in the RCC catechism of the church. Go and study it. It is quite obvious also that you have your stand about the Trinity and will not budge. Fine, have it your way. No more writing from me.

 

[Bowman]

Re: There is NO truth....from....frank....

1. Jesus is the Son of God.

John 1:34 – “And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.
Mat 3:17 - “And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”

For contrast, Jesus also repeatedly states that He is the Son of man.

Thus, He is the God-man.

1. For the Salvation Plan to work, Jesus Christ had to give up His Godly status and become man and live among the people to tell and show them the way to God.

John 1:14 - “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt amongst us, ( ) full of grace and truth.” It confirms here that Jesus Christ was an invisible being before He became a tangible being.

We know that the second person of the Trinity was in the world from the beginning - and He came to His own, but the majority did not know Him, as thus…

He was in the world, and the world came into being through Him, yet the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave authority to become children of God, to the ones believing into His name, who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but were born of God. And the Word became flesh and tabernacled among us. And we beheld His glory, glory as of an only begotten from the Father, full of grace and of truth. John witnesses concerning Him, and has cried out, saying, This One was He of whom I said, He coming after me has been before me, for He was preceding me. And out of His fullness we all received, and grace on top of grace. For the Law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, that One declares Him. (John 1.10 – 18)

Scripture clearly informs the reader that the Word occupied flesh when He was in the world and that He was beheld as The Glory of God.


That the second person of the Trinity occupied flesh before being born of a woman and being referred to as God The Son, is made crystal clear by John’s proclamation that ‘He coming after me has been before me, for He was preceding me’. This is a full admission that The Son was manifest both before John’s time and after John’s time.


These early manifestations of The Son, The God-man, consisted of Malek Yahweh, El Shaddai, etc, etc…thus, the soul of God is in reference to The Son…not The Father….not The Spirit…

 

[Tintin]

Truth?FromFrank, I suppose the Roman Catholic Church is a good scapegoat as any for conspiracy theories with no understanding of the history of the early Christian Church. And by that I mean, stop blaming them!

 

[Bowman]

Run away NO truth Frank...

I have just done that, did you not read it? The Trinity concept started by the RCC and is fully explained in the RCC catechism of the church. Go and study it. It is quite obvious also that you have your stand about the Trinity and will not budge. Fine, have it your way. No more writing from me.

Moses was Trinitarian.

 

[Bowman]

frank does NOT know his scriptures...

1 Tim. 2:5 – “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Jesus Christ.” Jesus was a God before but He has given up His Godly status when He became man.

Who is God?


Who is Savior?


Titus 2.13

προσδεχομενοι την μακαριαν ελπιδα και επιφανειαν της δοξης του μεγαλου θεου και σωτηρος ημων χριστου ιησου



Looking for the blessed hope and appearance of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,





2 Peter 1.1

σιμων πετρος δουλος και αποστολος ιησου χριστου τοις ισοτιμον ημιν λαχουσιν πιστιν εν δικαιοσυνη του θεου ημων και σωτηρος ιησου χριστου




Simon Peter, a slave and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those equally precious with us, having obtained faith in the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:







Greek grammar mandates that Jesus is both God and Savior in the above verses.


Jesus is the God-man.


Jesus is the Savior man.


Thus, when we come to your example, we can easily see that God and Savior both apply to Jesus.


Further, ‘Truth’ also applies to Jesus.


Your example establishes that Jesus is both God and man.


He is the God-man, as thus…

1 Tim 2.3 - 5


For this is good and acceptable before God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to a full knowledge of Truth. For God is one, also there is one Mediator of God and of men, the Man Christ Jesus,

 

[TruthFromFrank]

Originally Posted by Kerry

Elohim is the term used by all creation to acknowledge God, after the fall He became Jehovah or YHWH meaning Father.AS He is the Father he had a son and sent Him to redeem us. In Fact 1 of the Trinity became a man by child birth, Jesus was born of a virgin and Jesus had the DNA of a human and God. He prayed to the Father and relied on the Holy Spirit. To read the bible and not say a Godhead is foolish. Paul refers to the God head and he only had the OT to go by.


Kerry did not say that they could do DNA tests in Jesus' time. He said that "Jesus had the DNA of a human AND God." There is a difference between the two statements. Dont twist people's sentences into something that they did not say. The Trinity consists of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Matthew 3:16-17 states: And Jesus,when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water, and lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Holy Spirit descending like a dove, and lightning upon him; and lo, a voice (God) from heaven spake, saying this is my beloved son in whom I am well-pleased.

Blue_Ladybug, WHAT TYPE OF PERSON ARE YOU TO CHANGE THE HEADING TO - NO TRUTH FROM FRANK?? QUITE SICK I THINK. BUT THAT IS HOW SATAN WORKS.

 

[Bowman]

Re: There is NO truth....from....frank....

1. Counsel of peace between God and Jesus Christ, the high priest and Son of God.

Rev. 22:3 – “And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve Him.” There will only be two thrones. If a Trinity exists there should be Three thrones.

The Triune God resides upon ONE Throne, Frank.


After these things I saw, and behold, a great crowd which no one was able to number them, out of every nation, even tribes and peoples and tongues, standing in front of the throne, and before the Lamb, having been clothed with white robes, and in their hands palm branches.And they cry with a great voice, saying, Salvation to our God sitting on the throne, and to the Lamb. And all the angels and of the elders and of the four living creatures stood around the throne. And they fell before the throne on their faces, and worshiped God, saying, Amen. Blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and strength to our God forever and ever. Amen.(Rev 7.9 – 12)



And after these things, I heard a great voice of a large multitude in Heaven, saying, Hallelujah!The salvation and the glory and the honor and the power of the Lord our God! For true and righteous are His judgments, because He judged the great harlot who defiled the earth with her fornication. And He avenged the blood of His slaves out of her hand. And a second time they said, Hallelujah!Also her smoke goes up to the ages of the ages. And the twenty four elders, and the four living creatures fell down and worshiped God sitting on the throne, saying, Amen! Hallelujah!And a voice came out from the throne, saying, Praise our God, all His slaves, and the ones fearing Him, the small and the great.And I heard as a sound of a numerous crowd, and as a sound of many waters, and as a sound of strong thunders, saying, Hallelujah! Because the Lord God Almighty reigned.(Rev 19.1 – 6)



A close reading of the text informs the reader that the term ‘Hallelujah’ (i.e. Praise Yahweh) is proclaimed by the large multitude (i.e. the Righteous in Heaven), not once (Rev 19.1), not twice (Rev 19.3), but three separate times (Rev 19.6).


This is in keeping with the Three Person; One Being Triune God formula already established in scripture.


Now that the Father, Son and Spirit have been established and are worshiped by The Righteous; a separate confirmation of this singular truth is proclaimed by the twenty-four elders and the four living creatures (Rev 19.4).


Yet another Biblical proof that the One God is Triune and His Righteous worship Him as Triune.


Further, Rev 19 is about The Son, of which, can only mean that His name is Yahweh, as the Hallelujah is towards Him.


The doxology contained in Rev 19.1 – 2 pertains to Jesus, and, as we already know, these epithets have already been applied to Jesus numerous times in scripture.