Jesus turned water into unfermented wine and not fermented wine.
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For clarification:
(Here is my List Again with some brief explanations):
(Here is my List Again with some brief explanations):
21 WARNINGS
That Speak Against The Alcoholic Beverage Itself.
(That is not specifically or exclusively talking about drunkenness)
Passages For the Old Testament Saint:
(Before the Cross: The OT Saint did not have a liberty in Christ to drink intoxicating beverages)
(Just as they did not have a liberty in Christ to eat unclean animals)
(That is not specifically or exclusively talking about drunkenness)
Passages For the Old Testament Saint:
(Before the Cross: The OT Saint did not have a liberty in Christ to drink intoxicating beverages)
(Just as they did not have a liberty in Christ to eat unclean animals)
1) Deuteronomy 29:5-6
- God gave no grape juice to Israel nor did they have intoxicating drink in the wilderness.
(The reason for this action was taken so as to show how they knew God).
2) Deuteronomy 32:33
- Enemy's wine is like the poison of serpents vs. Israelite's pure blood of the grape (verse 14).
3) 1 Samuel 1:14-15
- Accused, Hannah said she drank no wine.
4) Proverbs 4:17
- Alcoholic drink is called the wine of violence.
5) Proverbs 20:1
- Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging.
6) Proverbs 23:31
- God instructs not to look at intoxicating drinks.
7) Proverbs 23:32
- Alcoholic drinks bite like a serpent, sting like an adder.
8) Proverbs 23:35
- Alcohol makes the drinker insensitive to pain so he does not perceive it as a warning.
(It also says Alcohol is habit forming).
9) Proverb 31:4-5
- Kings, Princes, and others who rule and judge must not drink alcohol. Alcohol perverts good judgment.
10) Ecclesiastes 2:3
- The king tried everything, including intoxicating drink, to see if it satisfied. It did not.
(c.f. Ecclesiastes 12:8)
11) Ecclesiastes 10:17
- A land is blessed when its leaders do not drink.
12) Isaiah 5:22
- There is a woe unto them who mix strong drinks.
13) Jeremiah 35:2-14
- The Rechabites drank no grape juice or intoxicating wine and were blessed.
14) Daniel 1:5-17
- Daniel refused the king’s intoxicating wine and was blessed for it along with his abstaining friends.
15) Hosea 4:11
- Intoxicating wine seduces the heart.
Passages For the New Testament Saint:
(After the Cross: NT Saints (Not All) have a liberty in Christ to drink alcohol soberly & privately)
(Just as they have a liberty in Christ to eat unclean animals)
(Those whose conscience condemns them in drinking are not to drink)
(Those who are leaders in the church are not to drink alcohol)
(Just as they have a liberty in Christ to eat unclean animals)
(Those whose conscience condemns them in drinking are not to drink)
(Those who are leaders in the church are not to drink alcohol)
16) Romans 14:21
- Do not do anything (Including drinking intoxicating beverages) to make your brother to stumble.
17) 1 Timothy 3:2-3
- Bishops (elders) are to be temperate, sober, and not near any wine.
18) 1 Timothy 3:8
- Deacons are to be worthy of respect and not drinkers.
19) 1 Timothy 3:11
- Deacons’ wives are to be temperate and sober.
20) Titus 1:7-8
- A bishop is not to be given to wine.
21) Titus 2:2-3
- The older men and older women of the church are to be temperate and not addicted to wine.
Source:
75 Bible References on Drinking Alcohol
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Who is Leighton G. Campbell and why should we pay the slightest attention to anything he has to say?
Anybody can write a book and get it published for next to nothing these days. Anybody can put up articles on the internet and have somebody like you find it.
Show me something that indicates to me this person is a credible source.
For example, I don't give personally give much credibility to a Seventh-day Adventist source who starts a sentence with: "As Ellen G. White aptly said . . ."
That's the kind of source you and Jason0047 use and then call it an "official" source.
Anybody can write a book and get it published for next to nothing these days. Anybody can put up articles on the internet and have somebody like you find it.
Show me something that indicates to me this person is a credible source.
For example, I don't give personally give much credibility to a Seventh-day Adventist source who starts a sentence with: "As Ellen G. White aptly said . . ."
That's the kind of source you and Jason0047 use and then call it an "official" source.
Stop being an accuser of the brethren and stick to the topic of discussion with Scripture. This thread is not about me. It is about what the Scriptures say. Prove your case with Scripture on the topic of this thread. We are not here to attack me, or anyone else. I know. I speak the truth of God's Word and it upsets you. I get it. But please try and be mature, loving, and respectful in Christ Jesus. Discuss the topic with Scripture.
Again, you have the wrong focus. It is not about if the author lived a perfect Christian life or if they are even of God or not. Truth can still be known on a wide variety of topics even among false believers. As I said before, Catholics believe in the truth in the Trinity. Doesn't mean Catholics are saved, though. So truth revealed in an article, or book has to be examined by comparing Scripture with Scripture and not in the method here that you suggest.
Excuse me?
You are the one who went off on the "I'm on the higher road and you're not" rant directed towards SolidGround.
We all know the verse in question is a parable. You remind me of a Geico commercial. "Everybody knows that."
But why did Jesus say to put the wine in new wineskins?
Fermentation, correct?
Please just answer the question with a "Yes" or "No."
Can you do that?
You are the one who went off on the "I'm on the higher road and you're not" rant directed towards SolidGround.
We all know the verse in question is a parable. You remind me of a Geico commercial. "Everybody knows that."
But why did Jesus say to put the wine in new wineskins?
Fermentation, correct?
Please just answer the question with a "Yes" or "No."
Can you do that?
Psalm 104:14-15 is saying if you drink "new wine" it can lift up your heart in happiness in the fact that it refreshes you (gives you energy) and makes you glad in it's taste and it's nutritional benefits. It is good for you health wise. It is good for your heart, digestion, supply vitamins or nutrients, and provide a natural sugar and give you extra energy intake to laugh and play in the joy of the Lord. This is why it makes the heart glad.
Personally, I'm not going to bother much with a book or an article written by someone who, in my opinion, has little credibility. Like your Seventh-day Adventist source who is so fond of Ellen G. White.
You and StandingFirmInChrist will quote anything on the internet you find that you think supports your warped interpretations of Scripture, and then you expect everybody to take it as the Gospel.
And you have the unmitigated gall to call it an "official" source.
You and StandingFirmInChrist will quote anything on the internet you find that you think supports your warped interpretations of Scripture, and then you expect everybody to take it as the Gospel.
And you have the unmitigated gall to call it an "official" source.
Do you see the word "new" in that verse?
The Hebrew word "yayin" is translated to "wine" in that verse. "Yayin" comes from a root word that means fermented.
The preponderance of evidence, biblical and otherwise, confirms that "yayin" refers to an alcoholic beverage.
Oh sure, you can find somebody somewhere who says otherwise, but the preponderance of evidence indicates that "yayin" is alcoholic.
For the umpteenth time.
The Hebrew word "yayin" is translated to "wine" in that verse. "Yayin" comes from a root word that means fermented.
The preponderance of evidence, biblical and otherwise, confirms that "yayin" refers to an alcoholic beverage.
Oh sure, you can find somebody somewhere who says otherwise, but the preponderance of evidence indicates that "yayin" is alcoholic.
For the umpteenth time.
You repeatedly present straw man and slippery slope arguments, which is intellectual dishonesty at its finest.
So, you are hanging your hat on the "well drunk" in the KJV, which is translated to "drunk fully" and "drunk abundantly" in other translations.
Right?
Do you have anything else that possibly indicates that the guests at the wedding at Cana were three sheets to the wind and about to get worse?
I have mentioned several times that wedding feasts at the time of Jesus often lasted for a week.
Of course, you avoided that issue.
What relevance might this have?
And what relevance might it have on grape juice, if that is what Jesus provided? (Think fermentation.)
Which He did not.
In my opinion, Jesus provided a beverage more like Screaming Eagle (a wine that cost over a thousand bucks a bottle) than a beverage like Thunderbird or Welch's Grape Juice.
So, you are hanging your hat on the "well drunk" in the KJV, which is translated to "drunk fully" and "drunk abundantly" in other translations.
Right?
Do you have anything else that possibly indicates that the guests at the wedding at Cana were three sheets to the wind and about to get worse?
I have mentioned several times that wedding feasts at the time of Jesus often lasted for a week.
Of course, you avoided that issue.
What relevance might this have?
And what relevance might it have on grape juice, if that is what Jesus provided? (Think fermentation.)
Which He did not.
In my opinion, Jesus provided a beverage more like Screaming Eagle (a wine that cost over a thousand bucks a bottle) than a beverage like Thunderbird or Welch's Grape Juice.
So if Psalm 104:14-15 is talking about alcoholic wine that makes men's hearts glad, then why does it say that we are to drink wine with a merry heart in Ecclesiastes 9:7?
Ecclesiastes 9:7
"Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works."
Did you catch that? It says we are to drink "wine" WITH a merry heart. Meaning, that the wine the Israelites drank did not automatically make their hearts merry because they had to drink their wine WITH a merry heart. For if we are to assume that all forms of wine (either freshly squeezed grape juice, i.e. new wine or fully fermented wine) are to make one's heart merry, then we must also conclude that bread makes us joyful, too. But that is not what it says here. It says eat your bread with joy and drink with a merry heart. So Psalm 104:14-15 is not the type of wine that you think it is.
Ecclesiastes 9:7
"Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works."
Did you catch that? It says we are to drink "wine" WITH a merry heart. Meaning, that the wine the Israelites drank did not automatically make their hearts merry because they had to drink their wine WITH a merry heart. For if we are to assume that all forms of wine (either freshly squeezed grape juice, i.e. new wine or fully fermented wine) are to make one's heart merry, then we must also conclude that bread makes us joyful, too. But that is not what it says here. It says eat your bread with joy and drink with a merry heart. So Psalm 104:14-15 is not the type of wine that you think it is.
It was not my intention to specifically reference them. If I had done so, it was not to my knowledge. There are many who I disagree with and yet can find a certain truth in what they say. Again, stick with Scripture. I already pointed out that even false believers can have or know a particular truth in the Bible.
Scripture mentions how leaders in the church are not to drink. I have provided verses to that in my post titled 21 Warnings. Please address those verses if you disagree.
I was not informing people it was a parable as if they didn't know that. I merely stated it as a parable because that is what it is.
Yes, I already said this before. I believe new fresh crushed grape juice is fermenting and it will burst the old wine skins or bottles because those old wine skins had already went thru the fermentation process.
However, if you believe the new wine is juice that needs to ferment, then you have in effect just admitted that "new wine" in the Bible can be freshly squeezed grape juice. But did Jesus approve of the drinking habits of men by saying that no man puts new wine into old wine skins (Which suggests that men drank fully fermented wine)?
No, it does not. For if this was the case, then people could conclude that Jesus is not God.
For Jesus said, "Why do you call me good? There is none good but God."
Should we also conclude that we are gods? Jesus said we are gods.
Was Jesus in favor of Ceasar because he said to render to Ceasar to what is Ceasars when he held up his coin?
Yes, I have no doubt that His people are to obey the law of the land (Because all authority is placed under God), but that does not mean Jesus wants people to render their lives to Ceasar instead of God.
Jesus also said the Kingdom of God is like leaven (yeast) that a woman took and placed into three measures of meal (flour). Leaven is always a type of sin. Are we to say that sin is associated with the Kingdom? No, most certainly not.
Read the verses above verse 39 in Luke chapter 5. You will see that the "Old" is in reference to the Pharisees's traditions. For Jesus is calling sinners to repentance and not the righteous (or those who think they are self righteous like the Pharisees). So the "Old" in both parables is the Pharisees false old mind set.
Your question is loaded like a baked potato so as to force the answer you want (So as to color alcohol as if it is this beautiful thing; When in reality it destroys lives every several minutes). New wine (or freshly crushed grape juice) is usually (not always) fermenting is not fully fermented wine because it takes time to fully ferment into an intoxicating substance.
The book is not on the internet, at least not in my country it isn't. I have a hard copy of the book where Leighton examines and exegetes every verse that is dealing with wine and strong drink in the Word of God. It also examines words associated with drinking, such as banquetings, wine bibber, etc..
Solomon also said to drink wine abundantly. If wine was alcoholic in that verse, this would mean that the Bible condones drunkenness. After all, abundantly means to the full. Drink alcohol until you're full and you would be drunk. Therefore, Solomon could not have been speaking of an alcoholic wine.