John 5:3 and Baptismal Regeneration Refuted

[sparkman]

Recently, I had some discussions with a Church of Christ - Campbellite faction person in the chat room who believes in baptismal regeneration. I have been doing some research on the topic of baptism and the verses they use to support their position.

Evangelical Christians believe in salvation by grace through faith alone, unto good works. Good works do not earn or merit salvation, but are the result of salvation. Baptism is a work that follows salvation.

Church of Christ Campbellites claim that baptism is when we are spiritually born. Baptism is a work that baptismal regeneration advocates claim must precede salvation. John 5:3 is a verse that they use to make this claim. The position of the author is that this verse doesn't discuss water baptism at all, but is solely speaking of the spiritual birth.

Following is an explanation of three legitimate ways that this verse can be viewed in an orthodox, evangelical context.

John 5 3 Now there was a man of the Pharisees named [SUP](A)[/SUP]Nicodemus, [SUP](B)[/SUP]a ruler of the Jews. [SUP]2 [/SUP]This man came to Jesus[SUP][a][/SUP] [SUP](C)[/SUP]by night and said to him, [SUP](D)[/SUP]“Rabbi, [SUP](E)[/SUP]we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do [SUP](F)[/SUP]unless God is with him.” [SUP]3 [/SUP]Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is [SUP](G)[/SUP]born [SUP](H)[/SUP]again[SUP][b][/SUP] he cannot [SUP](I)[/SUP]see the kingdom of God.” [SUP]4 [/SUP]Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?” [SUP]5 [/SUP]Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born [SUP](J)[/SUP]of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. [SUP]6 [/SUP][SUP](K)[/SUP]That which is born of the flesh is [SUP](L)[/SUP]flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.[SUP][c][/SUP] [SUP]7 [/SUP][SUP](M)[/SUP]Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You[SUP][d][/SUP] must be born [SUP](N)[/SUP]again.’ [SUP]8 [/SUP][SUP](O)[/SUP]The wind[SUP][e][/SUP] blows [SUP](P)[/SUP]where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

There are 3 different ways to view verse 5 that are consistent with salvation by grace through faith alone, and don't fall into the error of baptismal regeneration teachings.

1) When the Scripture is speaking of being born of water and Spirit, it is talking about the physical birth when speaking of water, and the spiritual birth when speaking of Spirit. How can water be a symbol of physical birth? A phase in late pregnancy is when the "water breaks". Consult a human reproduction textbook for further details.
2) When the Scripture is speaking of being born of water and Spirit, it is talking about being exposed to the Gospel message the word of truth, which is symbolized by water in some verses (James 1:18, I Pet 1:23, Eph 5:26), and the spiritual birth.
3) When the Scripture is speaking of being born of water and Spirit, the phrase in the Greek is actually metaphoric language. The word "and" in Greek is "kai" and can be translated as "even". The resulting phrase is "water even spirit" which simply conveys the meaning of the spiritual birth. In John 7:38, water is viewed as being emblematic of the Spirit.

I personally do not think the first possibility is correct but it is reasonable. I think the second and third possibility have a lot more merit, and I lean a bit more toward the third possibility.

 

[dcontroversal]

Recently, I had some discussions with a Church of Christ - Campbellite faction person in the chat room who believes in baptismal regeneration. I have been doing some research on the topic of baptism and the verses they use to support their position.

Evangelical Christians believe in salvation by grace through faith alone, unto good works. Good works do not earn or merit salvation, but are the result of salvation. Baptism is a work that follows salvation.

Church of Christ Campbellites claim that baptism is when we are spiritually born. Baptism is a work that baptismal regeneration advocates claim must precede salvation. John 5:3 is a verse that they use to make this claim. The position of the author is that this verse doesn't discuss water baptism at all, but is solely speaking of the spiritual birth.

Following is an explanation of three legitimate ways that this verse can be viewed in an orthodox, evangelical context.

John 5 3 Now there was a man of the Pharisees named [SUP](A)[/SUP]Nicodemus, [SUP](B)[/SUP]a ruler of the Jews. [SUP]2 [/SUP]This man came to Jesus[SUP][a][/SUP] [SUP](C)[/SUP]by night and said to him, [SUP](D)[/SUP]“Rabbi, [SUP](E)[/SUP]we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do [SUP](F)[/SUP]unless God is with him.” [SUP]3 [/SUP]Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is [SUP](G)[/SUP]born [SUP](H)[/SUP]again[SUP][b][/SUP] he cannot [SUP](I)[/SUP]see the kingdom of God.” [SUP]4 [/SUP]Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?” [SUP]5 [/SUP]Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born [SUP](J)[/SUP]of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. [SUP]6 [/SUP][SUP](K)[/SUP]That which is born of the flesh is [SUP](L)[/SUP]flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.[SUP][c][/SUP] [SUP]7 [/SUP][SUP](M)[/SUP]Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You[SUP][d][/SUP] must be born [SUP](N)[/SUP]again.’ [SUP]8 [/SUP][SUP](O)[/SUP]The wind[SUP][e][/SUP] blows [SUP](P)[/SUP]where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

There are 3 different ways to view verse 5 that are consistent with salvation by grace through faith alone, and don't fall into the error of baptismal regeneration teachings.

1) When the Scripture is speaking of being born of water and Spirit, it is talking about the physical birth when speaking of water, and the spiritual birth when speaking of Spirit. How can water be a symbol of physical birth? A phase in late pregnancy is when the "water breaks". Consult a human reproduction textbook for further details.
2) When the Scripture is speaking of being born of water and Spirit, it is talking about being exposed to the Gospel message the word of truth, which is symbolized by water in some verses (James 1:18, I Pet 1:23, Eph 5:26), and the spiritual birth.
3) When the Scripture is speaking of being born of water and Spirit, the phrase in the Greek is actually metaphoric language. The word "and" in Greek is "kai" and can be translated as "even". The resulting phrase is "water even spirit" which simply conveys the meaning of the spiritual birth. In John 7:38, water is viewed as being emblematic of the Spirit.

I personally do not think the first possibility is correct but it is reasonable. I think the second and third possibility have a lot more merit, and I lean a bit more toward the third possibility.

That which is flesh is flesh and that which is spirit is spirit............

 

[sparkman]

That which is flesh is flesh and that which is spirit is spirit............

Good point..that verse does give a little more credence to the first possibility.

 

[posthuman]

Nicodemus didn't ask "how can a man be born" -- but how a man can be "born again" -- this indicates that he understood Jesus to be talking of two births, not one (refuting the 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] view), and Jesus did not correct him on that understanding.
this also indicates that Nicodemus understood he had already been born once, and that Christ was teaching him that he should be born a second time. (supporting the 1[SUP]st[/SUP] view)

dcontroversial's comment, reiterating what Jesus said there in verse 6, does not agree with the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] view. Jesus said to His disciples that they were clean "by the word" He spoke to them (John 15:3) -- this refutes the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] view too. faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God - and the Spirit is given by faith

the 1[SUP]st[/SUP] view is the only one that holds up, in my understanding.

 

[SeaBass]

The bible is its own best commentary:

Jn 3:5--------spirit++++++++water>>>>>>>>>>in the kingdom
1Cor 12:13----spirit+++++++baptized>>>>>>>>>in the body

So here we have two verses that deal with the new birth and since there is just one way to be born again both verses must express the same idea therefore "born of water" of Jn 3:5 is equivalent to "baptized" of 1 Cor 12:13.

 

[newbirth]

Recently, I had some discussions with a Church of Christ - Campbellite faction person in the chat room who believes in baptismal regeneration. I have been doing some research on the topic of baptism and the verses they use to support their position.

Evangelical Christians believe in salvation by grace through faith alone, unto good works. Good works do not earn or merit salvation, but are the result of salvation. Baptism is a work that follows salvation.

Church of Christ Campbellites claim that baptism is when we are spiritually born. Baptism is a work that baptismal regeneration advocates claim must precede salvation. John 5:3 is a verse that they use to make this claim. The position of the author is that this verse doesn't discuss water baptism at all, but is solely speaking of the spiritual birth.

Following is an explanation of three legitimate ways that this verse can be viewed in an orthodox, evangelical context.

John 5 3 Now there was a man of the Pharisees named [SUP](A)[/SUP]Nicodemus, [SUP](B)[/SUP]a ruler of the Jews. [SUP]2 [/SUP]This man came to Jesus[SUP][a][/SUP] [SUP](C)[/SUP]by night and said to him, [SUP](D)[/SUP]“Rabbi, [SUP](E)[/SUP]we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do [SUP](F)[/SUP]unless God is with him.” [SUP]3 [/SUP]Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is [SUP](G)[/SUP]born [SUP](H)[/SUP]again[SUP][b][/SUP] he cannot [SUP](I)[/SUP]see the kingdom of God.” [SUP]4 [/SUP]Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?” [SUP]5 [/SUP]Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born [SUP](J)[/SUP]of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. [SUP]6 [/SUP][SUP](K)[/SUP]That which is born of the flesh is [SUP](L)[/SUP]flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.[SUP][c][/SUP] [SUP]7 [/SUP][SUP](M)[/SUP]Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You[SUP][d][/SUP] must be born [SUP](N)[/SUP]again.’ [SUP]8 [/SUP][SUP](O)[/SUP]The wind[SUP][e][/SUP] blows [SUP](P)[/SUP]where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

There are 3 different ways to view verse 5 that are consistent with salvation by grace through faith alone, and don't fall into the error of baptismal regeneration teachings.

1) When the Scripture is speaking of being born of water and Spirit, it is talking about the physical birth when speaking of water, and the spiritual birth when speaking of Spirit. How can water be a symbol of physical birth? A phase in late pregnancy is when the "water breaks". Consult a human reproduction textbook for further details.
2) When the Scripture is speaking of being born of water and Spirit, it is talking about being exposed to the Gospel message the word of truth, which is symbolized by water in some verses (James 1:18, I Pet 1:23, Eph 5:26), and the spiritual birth.
3) When the Scripture is speaking of being born of water and Spirit, the phrase in the Greek is actually metaphoric language. The word "and" in Greek is "kai" and can be translated as "even". The resulting phrase is "water even spirit" which simply conveys the meaning of the spiritual birth. In John 7:38, water is viewed as being emblematic of the Spirit.

To be born again has nothing to do with your natural birth and water breaking....water is water and kai is and........The question is “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born? This is the way one enters the world...can it happen again...NO ...He want to find out how to be born again...Jesus explains “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. [SUP]6 [/SUP]That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
He did not say you are born of water already so you must now be born of the spirit.....to be born again...
In vs 3 He says you must be born again to see the kingdom.....
In vs 5 He is showing how to enter the kingdom
In vs 6 He is showing a distinct separation between flesh birth and spirit birth....(you cannot now add the water from flesh birth birth to make complete the spirit birth)

The scripture teaches ...of a new life after baptism
Romans 6:2-4English Standard Version (ESV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP]By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? [SUP]3 [/SUP]Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? [SUP]4 [/SUP]We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.

 

[apostolic862004]

In John 3:5, if the water was referring to the natural birth, Jesus would have said "Except a man be born of FLESH and SPIRIT, he cannot enter the Kingdom of God."

It is obvious that the water and spirit are BOTH part of being born again. Verse 5 is a parallel passage to verse 3. He said the same thing. The only difference was that he detailed what it meant to be born AGAIN. The water is part of the SECOND birth, not the first one. So the water is not referring to a natural birth. And Jesus knew that there would be people years later claiming that this was part of the natural birth so he went on to say That which is born of flesh is flesh and that which is born of spirit is spirit. He clarified that a natural birth brings natural life but a spiritual birth brings spiritual life. Neither are a part of the other. He made a clear distinction and separation between natural and spiritual birth. And spiritual birth involves water and spirit.

 

[mailmandan]

The bible is its own best commentary:

Jn 3:5--------spirit++++++++water>>>>>>>>>>in the kingdom
1Cor 12:13----spirit+++++++baptized>>>>>>>>>in the body

So here we have two verses that deal with the new birth and since there is just one way to be born again both verses must express the same idea therefore "born of water" of Jn 3:5 is equivalent to "baptized" of 1 Cor 12:13.

John 3:5--------living water++++++++Spirit>>>>>>>>>>in the kingdom
John 4:10,14--------give me a drink++++++++living water/drinks of the water that I shall give him>>>>>>>never thirst/everlasting life
John 7:37-39--------come to Me and drink++++++++believes in Me>>>>>>>>>>rivers of living water/Spirit
1Cor 12:13----Spirit+++++++Spirit baptized>>>>>>>>>into one body/drink into one Spirit

Born of water is equivalent to living water, which accomplishes spiritual washing/purification of the soul by the Holy Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:13 is Spirit baptism (by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body) not water baptism. Plain ordinary H20 has no power to place us into the body of Christ. The natural man can only understand natural H20.

 

[Atwood]

Again, the false contrived parallelism is promulgated:
Lying chart:
"Jn 3:5--------spirit++++++++water[sic lie]>>>>>>>>>>in the kingdom
1Cor 12:13----spirit+++++++baptized>>>>>>>>>in the body"
True Chart:
Jn 3:5 water--------- & Spirit++++[no water, no baptism]>>>> kingdom
1 Cor 12:13 no water-------Spirit+++++++baptized>>>>>>>>> Body

Water is misplaced in the chart for John 3, and makes sense as human birth, not baptism. The deceiver has moved water in John 3:5 to a place where it does not occur and failed to note that "water" is absent from 1 Cor 12:13.

JOhn 3:5
Except one be born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

1 Cor 12:13

For in one Spirit were we all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free; and were all made to drink of one Spirit.

So here we have two verses that deal with the new birth and since there is just one way to be born again both verses must express the same idea therefore "born of water" of Jn 3:5 is equivalent to "baptized" of 1 Cor 12:13.[/quote]

We have one passage on the new birth, and a 2nd which is not about the new birth, but being put into the Body of Christ (Spirit baptism, not Spirit regeneration). Born of water is not equivalent of baptized in 1 Cor 12.

Is this the same guy who argued that before the cross there was a different way of salvation from after the cross? If so, why is he bringing in teaching in John 3?

 

[SeaBass]

John 3:5--------living water++++++++Spirit>>>>>>>>>>in the kingdom
John 4:10,14--------give me a drink++++++++living water/drinks of the water that I shall give him>>>>>>>never thirst/everlasting life
John 7:37-39--------come to Me and drink++++++++believes in Me>>>>>>>>>>rivers of living water/Spirit
1Cor 12:13----Spirit+++++++Spirit baptized>>>>>>>>>into one body/drink into one Spirit

Born of water is equivalent to living water, which accomplishes spiritual washing/purification of the soul by the Holy Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:13 is Spirit baptism (by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body) not water baptism. Plain ordinary H20 has no power to place us into the body of Christ. The natural man can only understand natural H20.

Jesus said nothing about "living water" in Jn 3:5 nor does "baptized" in 1 Cor 12:13 refer to living water.

Nor is the phrase" spirit baptized" found in 1 Cor 12:13.

You're simply rewriting these verses to force them to fit your theological bias.

 

[JesusIsAll]

Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire.

 

[JesusIsAll]

Again, the false contrived parallelism is promulgated:
Lying chart

I could believe everything you have to say true, if the letters were only a little bigger and the colors brighter.

 

[SeaBass]

Again, the false contrived parallelism is promulgated:
Lying chart:
"Jn 3:5--------spirit++++++++water[sic lie]>>>>>>>>>>in the kingdom
1Cor 12:13----spirit+++++++baptized>>>>>>>>>in the body"
True Chart:
Jn 3:5 water--------- & Spirit++++[no water, no baptism]>>>> kingdom
1 Cor 12:13 no water-------Spirit+++++++baptized>>>>>>>>> Body

Water is misplaced in the chart for John 3, and makes sense as human birth, not baptism. The deceiver has moved water in John 3:5 to a place where it does not occur and failed to note that "water" is absent from 1 Cor 12:13.

JOhn 3:5
Except one be born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

1 Cor 12:13

For in one Spirit were we all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free; and were all made to drink of one Spirit.



We have one passage on the new birth, and a 2nd which is not about the new birth, but being put into the Body of Christ (Spirit baptism, not Spirit regeneration). Born of water is not equivalent of baptized in 1 Cor 12.

Is this the same guy who argued that before the cross there was a different way of salvation from after the cross? If so, why is he bringing in teaching in John 3?

Jn 3:5 the new birth has two elements, 1) Spirit and 2) water and those exact same two are found in 1 Cor 12:13.


Jn 3:5-----------spirit++++++++water>>>>>>>>>>in the kingdom
1Cor 12:13----spirit+++++++baptized>>>>>>>>>in the body


These two verses show the complete simplicity and beauty in how bible verses harmonized and we can see from posts #8 and #9 how man's theology creates disharmony.

 

[SeaBass]

Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire.

The pronoun "you" occurs twice in Mt 3:11. Who/whom does these pronouns "you" refer to?

 

[john832]

That which is flesh is flesh and that which is spirit is spirit............

One becomes spirit at the resurrection.

 

[mailmandan]

Jesus said nothing about "living water" in Jn 3:5 nor does "baptized" in 1 Cor 12:13 refer to living water.

Jesus said nothing about "baptism" in John 3 5, yet Jesus said "water" in John 3:5 and also said "water" along with "living water" in John 4;10,14; 7:37-39. Jesus said "drink" in John 4:10 and John 7:37. Paul said "drink" in 1 Corinthians 12:13. Do you drink baptismal water? How do we "drink" into one Spirit? READ IT ALL and quit trying to accommodate your biased theology.

Nor is the phrase" spirit baptized" found in 1 Cor 12:13.

1 Corinthians 12:13 - By one Spirit we were all baptized into one body.. Acts 11:16 - John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit. Learn the difference.

You're simply rewriting these verses to force them to fit your theological bias.

That statement is the EPITOME of irony! When will you BELIEVE?

 

[newbirth]

One becomes spirit at the resurrection.

We ought not to say things because the may sound nice...and it is good to back up what you say with scripture...

Romans 6:5

For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 1 John 3:2
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

1 Corinthians 15:51-53
[SUP]51 [/SUP]Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
[SUP]52 [/SUP]In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
[SUP]53 [/SUP]For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

 

[SeaBass]

Jesus said nothing about "baptism" in John 3 5, yet Jesus said "water" in John 3:5 and also said "water" along with "living water" in John 4;10,14; 7:37-39. Jesus said "drink" in John 4:10 and John 7:37. Paul said "drink" in 1 Corinthians 12:13. Do you drink baptismal water? How do we "drink" into one Spirit? READ IT ALL and quit trying to accommodate your biased theology.



1 Corinthians 12:13 - By one Spirit we were all baptized into one body.. Acts 11:16 - John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit. Learn the difference.



That statement is the EPITOME of irony! When will you BELIEVE?

The phrase "spirit baptized" is not found in either Jn 3:5 or 1 Cor 12:13, that is plain re-writing of scripture. In 1 Cor 1:14,16 Paul water baptized some of the Corinthians himself, which is the one baptism of Eph 4:4. Changing 1 Cor 12:13 to some kind of spirit baptism creates two baptisms contrary to Eph 4;4.

"Spirit" in both Jn 3:5 and "Spirit" in 1 Cor 12:13 refers to literal Spirit.

"Water" in Jn 3:5 refers to literal water as "baptism" in 1 Cor 12:13 refers to a literal immersion. The anti-water baptism crowd does not mind that "spirit" refers to literal spirit but cannot have either verse refer to a literal water immersion thus they set out, using bad exegesis, to re-write the bible to get rid of a literal water immersion from Jn 3:5 and 1 Cor 12:13.

 

[mailmandan]

The phrase "spirit baptized" is not found in either Jn 3:5 or 1 Cor 12:13, that is plain re-writing of scripture.

Born of water and the Spirit is found in John 3:5, not born of baptism and the Spirit. John 3:5 has often been misused as if being born again is somehow the direct result of water baptism. It is assumed, without any proof whatsoever, that "water" signifies baptism. If "water" is arbitrarily defined as baptism, then we could just as justifiably say, "Out of his heart will flow rivers of living baptism" in John 7:38. If this sounds foolish, it is no more so than the idea that baptism is the source or the means of becoming born again. What Jesus said in John 4:10,14; 7:37-39 fits perfectly with what He said John 3:5. 1 Corinthians 12:13 clearly states by one Spirit (not by H20) we were all baptized into one body.. So "water baptized" is not found in either John 3:5 or 1 Corinthians 12:13, that is plain re-writing of scripture.

In 1 Cor 1:14,16 Paul water baptized some of the Corinthians himself, which is the one baptism of Eph 4:4.

Did Paul say "water" baptism in Ephesians 4:5? You are forced to believe this in order to accommodate your flawed theology.

Changing 1 Cor 12:13 to some kind of spirit baptism creates two baptisms contrary to Eph 4;4.

Changing 1 Corinthians 12:13? Some kind of Spirit baptism? Are you completely blind? Read it again. 1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by ONE SPIRIT we were all baptized into one body.. "one" baptism in Ephesians 4:5 does not mean that there is only one baptism in scripture period. Hebrews 6:2 says baptisms (plural). Matthew 3:11 says I baptize you with 1. water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the 2. Holy Spirit and 3. fire. Can you count? 1 Corinthians 10:2 says the Israelites were baptized into Moses. Literally water baptized into the body of Moses? NO! In Luke 12:50 says I have a baptism to be baptized with, and how distressed I am till it is accomplished! Was Jesus talking about water baptism here? NO! There is only ONE baptism that places us into the body of Christ and that is SPIRIT baptism, not water baptism.

Ephesians 4:5 - one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body.. Are you seeing the light yet?

"Spirit" in both Jn 3:5 and "Spirit" in 1 Cor 12:13 refers to literal Spirit.

Amen! Yet previously you accused me of changing 1 Corinthians 12:13 in to some kind of Spirit baptism, yet you now admit that 1 Corinthians 12:13 refers to literal Spirit, yet you change "by one Spirit baptized into one body" into water baptism. Where does 1 Corinthians 12:13 mention water?

"Water" in Jn 3:5 refers to literal water as "baptism" in 1 Cor 12:13 refers to a literal immersion.

Jesus simply said "water" in John 3:5 (not baptism) and in John 4:14 Jesus said "water" and specified that this is "living water" (John 4:10,14) and connected it with everlasting life. Jesus also connected "living water" with the Holy Spirit in John 7:37-39, yet no mention of water baptism. So 1 Corinthians 12:13 speaks of literal immersion into the body of Christ by Spirit baptism, not water baptism. Once again, the natural man can only understand natural water.

The anti-water baptism crowd does not mind that "spirit" refers to literal spirit but cannot have either verse refer to a literal water immersion thus they set out, using bad exegesis, to re-write the bible to get rid of a literal water immersion from Jn 3:5 and 1 Cor 12:13.

The anti-salvation through faith in Christ crowd rejects "living water" and "Spirit baptism" thus they set out, using using bad exegesis, to re-write the Bible to get rid of living water from John 3:5 (which fits perfectly with John 4:10,14; 7:37-39) and Spirit baptism from 1 Corinthians 12:13, which fits perfectly with (Matthew 3:11; Acts 1:5; 11:16). You still need to learn the difference between water baptism and Spirit baptism. You can't see anything beyond your church of Christ indoctrination.

 

[RedTent]

I don't think it is of God or helping anyone with putting God in their heart mind and soul like we are to do to pull any verse apart like this, seeing any one verse as what we are to know of God. Neither is looking at what different men see in the verse a help to us.

Scripture uses what we know and how we live in our physical world in order to teach us the spirit and truth of God that we don't know. Scripture tells us the spiritual truth to be born of spirit and water. It is a spiritual teaching we are to express in the physical world we live in, and can not be done in 10 words or less It takes the entire scripture of the Lord to understand and must fit together with every other scripture.

Just to understand the way God uses water that we know to teach us about spirit that we don't know is something requiring a lot of scripture. There is a need to go back to the very first time scripture uses water to explain to us, right through to Revelation. There is a unity in how it is used by the Lord, and we need to understand it from God's point of view.

This entire process needs to be followed through with every element of the teaching. What is being born again? It requires the Holy Spirit within us and a humbleness before God for this teaching to reach us spiritually.

What denomination of men did what with their understanding is not the way for us, as Christians, to understand scripture. It is a way to understand judging each other, divisions between Christians, and what isn't of God.