What Happens to an UNBAPTIZED believer?

[Atwood]

Why do we get all these posts irrelevant to the thread question: What happens to unbaptized believers?

also to [error!] which an antitype doth now save us -- baptism, (not a putting away of the filth of flesh, but the question of a good conscience in regard to God,) through the rising again of Jesus Christ

ὕδατος. 21 ὃ καὶ ὑμᾶς ἀντίτυπον νῦν σῴζει βάπτισμα,

Your translation is off. There is no word "to" before which (ὃ = ho). Translate antitupon as an adverb (with BDAG Lexicon), neuter adjective used as adverb. Antitupon-ish-ly, antitypishly, after a corresponding figure (BDAG says "correspondingly"). The core of the statement is (water) "which saves you." But the core statement is modified by "after a corresponding figure."

I can't see any way to make antitupon the subject of "saves." If so, it would read "[the] water [of Noah's flood], which antitype saves, namely baptism." But the water of Noah's flood is not baptism. The statement would be calling the water of the flood an antitype which saves, then explaining it as baptism. But such is not the case.

Literally then: water, which after a corresponding figure saves you, (namely) baptism.

Water baptism is a picture of salvation, not its substance. And it cannot be its substance as so many, many times salvation is offered just for believing, having faith, without any reference to baptism. Moreover, human baptism is a human work. Man is not saved by human works.

Why do we get all these posts irrelevant to the thread question: What happens to unbaptized believers? Could it be that the water-works heretics have no scripture to demo any bad outcome to unbaptized believers?

 

[Atwood]

i agree with that ^
to my understanding, calling water baptism - or any other ritual - the means of my salvation is idolatry.
i sin if i don't reject it.

that's not to reject the custom, but to reject the idea that the custom is what saves.

how good though, that we agree Christ was sent to die for our sins, and resurrected securing for us the promise of eternal life!!

i'd much rather contend over this than spat with atheists or others who completely reject Christ

Good post, Posthuman. I guess we all have our personal preferences. But it may be more dangerous those who claim to be Christians and pervert the gospel, more dangerous than atheism. I see it as a rejection of Christ, making him chance-giver and not Savior, also teaching salvation by works.

 

[newbirth]

Why do we get all these posts irrelevant to the thread question: What happens to unbaptized believers?


[/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR]
ὕδατος. 21 ὃ καὶ ὑμᾶς ἀντίτυπον νῦν σῴζει βάπτισμα,

Your translation is off. There is no word "to" before which (ὃ = ho). Translate antitupon as an adverb (with BDAG Lexicon), neuter adjective used as adverb. Antitupon-ish-ly, antitypishly, after a corresponding figure (BDAG says "correspondingly"). The core of the statement is (water) "which saves you." But the core statement is modified by "after a corresponding figure."

I can't see any way to make antitupon the subject of "saves." If so, it would read "[the] water [of Noah's flood], which antitype saves, namely baptism." But the water of Noah's flood is not baptism. The statement would be calling the water of the flood an antitype which saves, then explaining it as baptism. But such is not the case.

Literally then: water, which after a corresponding figure saves you, (namely) baptism.

Water baptism is a picture of salvation, not its substance. And it cannot be its substance as so many, many times salvation is offered just for believing, having faith, without any reference to baptism. Moreover, human baptism is a human work. Man is not saved by human works.

Why do we get all these posts irrelevant to the thread question: What happens to unbaptized believers? Could it be that the water-works heretics have no scripture to demo any bad outcome to unbaptized believers?

there are two reference here the flood and baptism....only eight were saved in the flood event...what event saves you?
what you should be concerned with is the phrase "saves You" nowhere does it say it is a picture but you are totally against water baptism ...so you reject the truth
it seem like you have not been buried with him in baptism...were you buried with Christ in baptism? If you were not how can you be raised with him through faith in the working of God? Do you have a new way of salvation..???

[SUP]11 [/SUP]in whom ye were also circumcised with a circumcision not made with hands, in the putting off of the body of the flesh, in the circumcision of Christ;
[SUP]12 [/SUP]having been buried with him in baptism, wherein ye were also raised with him through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.

[SUP]13 [/SUP]And you, being dead through your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, you, I say, did he make alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses;
[SUP]14 [/SUP]having blotted out the bond written in ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us: and he hath taken it out that way, nailing it to the cross;

 

[Atwood]

Now again, what does the NewB post have to do with the thread asking for what befalls the unbaptized baptist -- I mean the unbabtized Babtist, no, I mean the unbaptized BELIEVER!

"saves You" nowhere does it say it is a picture

Yeah, no where but in the text where is says antitypon, after a corresponding figure." Who could be so blind as not to see in a dunking baptism a picture of salvation, entombed & raised with Christ to new life. In water baptism the Lord Jesus is not put under water, it is a picture of His death & resurrection, not the actual thing

but you are totally against water baptism

Thou shalt not bear false witness nor "judge," NewB. I oppose not water baptism, but I do oppose trusting it for salvation like making an idol out of it; and I oppose all human works for salvation. The Lord Jesus is the only & sufficient Savior --
Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

it seem like you have not been buried with him in baptism...were you buried with Christ in baptism?

The man Lord Jesus was not in the pool when I was dunked, NewB. The only time I was baptized with Christ was when the Holy Spirit came upon me and put me into the Body of Christ when I first trusted Him as Savior. That is when I was Spirit baptized. That was real. The water baptism was a picture.

If you were not how can you be raised with him through faith in the working of God? Do you have a new way of salvation..???

I have the old way of salvation, NewB, the only way "through faith!" The only working I trust in is the working of God. Not the working of man. Do you need to you repent of faith in the working of man?

Not thru the human work of water-baptism. I worship not an idol as saving. There is only room for one SAvior in the universe; the Lord Jesus.

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, not of works lest anyone should boast.

Notice how many, many times we are told that faith/belief saves, and no water is mentioned!

Sirs, what MUST I DO to be saved?
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ & you shall be saved.

Will this be the day, NewB, when you repent of relegating the Savior to mere chance-giver? Will this be the day that you repent of trusting the idol of water baptism as your savior? Will this be the day that you trust the Lord Jesus as your Savior, for a new birth & everlasting life?

Cease the debate & take the knee: For whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved (no water mentioned). This is the call of faith.

 

[Apostol2013]

The thief on the cross proves that one does not need to be water baptized in order to be saved. Jesus was baptized just like everybody else was baptized and the Holy Spirit had descended on Him like a dove. Receiving the Spirit for the rest of mankind is different. It shows that you are saved if you receive the Holy Spirit. Romans 5:5 testifies to that fact. For how can the "love of God" be spread abroad within our hearts from the Holy Ghost if we are not saved? Yet, we can read about how believers have received the Spirit before they were water baptized.

When I was water baptized, I didn't do it for salvation. I was fully aware that it was not for the putting away of the filth of the flesh and it was done as a part of having a good conscience towards God. I was saved long before I was water baptized. Is my salvation in question? Do I need to get re-baptized thinking it will save me so as to be saved? Or was I one of the lucky ones?

receiving the spirit is a confirm of a believer but does not dispostion a clear output a clear output of being saved , to rather say he that endures to the end shall be saved , for being baptized by the Holy Ghos t is a promise given" to as many as are called " acts 2:39 those that are called but does not establish being saved , to be saved is to be really reborn of the Spirit and endure to the end in the doctrine we were taught by the apostles with Christ being confirmed also with signs and wonders , this is written word , now being called does not constitute salvation as it is confirmed in Mathew 22:14 , " and quoted many shall be called but few are chosen we can be book smart and contain all biblical knowledge but unless we apply those principles learned our religion is but worthless for we must resist evil and conquer with the spirit because the anointing can break the yoke of bondage to trully make us free we must be born in the spirit but not forsaking the doctrine that we were taught but be obedient in every precept whether in water baptism or holy spirit gift remembering the cross and His resurrection and announcing His covenant by communion till He comes , for Jesus said this is the cup of my new testament drink of this and you shall live therefore we must continue steadfast in all holiness upholding righteousness not repeating the crucifixion of the cross because of Christ . Because He came to take away sin not uphold it that you should not take His blood in vain

 

[peacefulbeliever]

water baptism is the death of the old man

Col 2
[SUP]11 [/SUP]In him you were also circumcised. It was not a circumcision performed by human hands. But it was a removal of the corrupt nature in the circumcision performed by Christ. [SUP]12 [/SUP]This happened when you were placed in the tomb with Christ through baptism. In baptism you were also brought back to life with Christ through faith in the power of God,[SUP][a][/SUP] who brought him back to life. [SUP]13 [/SUP]You were once dead because of your failures and your uncircumcised corrupt nature. But God made you alive with Christ when he forgave all our failures. [SUP]14 [/SUP]He did this by erasing the charges that were brought against us by the written laws God had established. He took the charges away by nailing them to the cross. [SUP]15 [/SUP]He stripped the rulers and authorities of their power and made a public spectacle of them as he celebrated his victory in Christ.

Water baptism symbolizes the death of the old man - but water does not and cannot create that new man - only God can create that new man and it is through being born of the Spirit. If you will read in Ephesians and Colossians - we are to continually "put off the old man"; so that old man - the flesh - doesn't actually "die". That is why we are to "renew" our minds and continually "put on the new man". This is something that we work at daily - even moment by moment.- it's not magic.

We were once dead as in dead in sins but we have been given new life through the Spirit - the new man - that is born within us. We are then reconciled to God and begin our walk in fellowship with God.

 

[TruthisPower]

Such a believer will no longer be posting on CC, but, in the spirit of kicking around this water baptism question on another thread like some cyber mobius strip that never ends, just ponder this verse for awhile,

Luke 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire.

Now, why doesn't somebody here rather prove from the Bible that every mention of baptism in the New Testament, with no mention of water, is even referring to water baptism? You think possibly not? Just a hint.

(Luke 3:16) John gave the answer, saying to all: “I, for my part, baptize you with water, but the one stronger than I am is coming, the lace of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with holy spirit and with fire.

So it would seem that john the baptist NEVER baptise anyone with holy spirit because it was not known to us until Pentecost 33 C.E. until after Jesus was dead. But Jesus was the first one to be baptise with spirt of God when the dove came down.

(Matthew 3:16, 17) After being baptized, Jesus immediately came up from the water; and look! the heavens were opened up, and he saw God’s spirit descending like a dove and coming upon him. 17 Look! Also, a voice from the heavens said: “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved.”

(Acts 2:4) and they all became filled with holy spirit and started to speak in different languages, just as the spirit enabled them to speak.

Anyone that has not been born again and never received the holy spirit while being Baptised cannot go to Heaven. One must be baptized. There were alot of people that was not baptised for instance Moses, Job, Abel, Abraham, Solomon, King David,John the Baptist and evryone that ever lived or died before jesus death on the passover.

(John 3:13) Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but the one who descended from heaven, the Son of man. So no one ever went into heaven before jesus

Now I know the question was asked "what happens to a unbaptized beliver" well we can say that they do not have a heavenly hope to be resurrected just as Moses and others but they do have a hope in the ressurection to life here on earth.

(2 Peter 3:13) But there are new heavens and a new earth that we are awaiting according to his promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell.

This new Heavens and earth are still the same one God dwells in as the one we live on today. Its a sybolic meaning when it is going to be cleansed just as noah day when he flooded the earth

(Matthew 24:37-39) For just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be. 38 For as they were in those days before the Flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, 39 and they took no note until the Flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be.


(Acts 24:15) And I have hope toward God, which hope these men also look forward to, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.

So unrightious humans will be resurected, not to heaven but to Earth. All the athiest that have died or people that were bad and the ones that didnt get a chance to know God from now (today) all the way back to Kain and Abel, Not Adam Eve though.

(Romans 6:7) For the one who has died has been acquitted from his sin. "acquitted meaning forgiven"
(Romans 6:23) For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord.
So no one is accountable for there sins after they have died because the penalty of their Sin was paid for by their death just as jesus was for you. Its your heart condition, that is at stake.

(Romans 5:12) That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned.
(Romans 6:23) For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord.

(Ezekiel 33:11) Tell them, ‘“As surely as I am alive,” declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah, “I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that someone wicked changes his way and keeps living. Turn back, turn back from your bad ways, for why should you die, O house of Israel?”’

For this scripture is for the one who thinks people are in heaven now before the Last day
(2 Timothy 2:18) These men have deviated from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already occurred, and they are subverting the faith of some.

 

[newbirth]

Water baptism symbolizes the death of the old man - but water does not and cannot create that new man - only God can create that new man and it is through being born of the Spirit. If you will read in Ephesians and Colossians - we are to continually "put off the old man"; so that old man - the flesh - doesn't actually "die". That is why we are to "renew" our minds and continually "put on the new man". This is something that we work at daily - even moment by moment.- it's not magic.

We were once dead as in dead in sins but we have been given new life through the Spirit - the new man - that is born within us. We are then reconciled to God and begin our walk in fellowship with God.

Colossians 2:11-13King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

[SUP]13 [/SUP]And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;



you say it is spirit baptism but that baptism is a representation of death unto resurrection so it has to be water...one is not buried in spirit baptism. it say we are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God. who raised Christ from the dead
and we were dead in the uncircumcision of our flesh, but he made us alive together with him, having forgiven us all our sins...that is what he says happens at baptism....

you don't understand what the death of the old man means...It means the dictates of the flesh have no power over you...you have the power to say no to sin...the only reason we have to continually put on the new man is because we continually hold on to the old man...when God purged us from our old sins he gave us the (HS) power to become sons by following the dictates of the spirit
2 Peter 1:8-10King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

 

[thecreationtutor]

Trusting Christ as Savior, is not just my big issue; it is the big issue of all mankind.

It is hardly worthy of a sneer.

Suppose only if you equate Baptism to salvation, vs Baptism as obedience, which births out of Salvation

 

[newbirth]

Now again, what does the NewB post have to do with the thread asking for what befalls the unbaptized baptist -- I mean the unbabtized Babtist, no, I mean the unbaptized BELIEVER!

believers get baptised

Yeah, no where but in the text where is says antitypon, after a corresponding figure." Who could be so blind as not to see in a dunking baptism a picture of salvation, entombed & raised with Christ to new life. In water baptism the Lord Jesus is not put under water, it is a picture of His death & resurrection, not the actual thing

brother if you went in alone you came out alone...scripture says if we are buried with him we are risen with him

Thou shalt not bear false witness nor "judge," NewB. I oppose not water baptism, but I do oppose trusting it for salvation like making an idol out of it; and I oppose all human works for salvation. The Lord Jesus is the only & sufficient Savior --
Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

Well trust God ...he said to do it

The man Lord Jesus was not in the pool when I was dunked, NewB. The only time I was baptized with Christ was when the Holy Spirit came upon me and put me into the Body of Christ when I first trusted Him as Savior. That is when I was Spirit baptized. That was real. The water baptism was a picture.

so you confess you were not buried with him in baptism? therefore not risen with him in newness of life...and you did not receive the promise as in Acts 2:38-39

I have the old way of salvation, NewB, the only way "through faith!" The only working I trust in is the working of God. Not the working of man. Do you need to you repent of faith in the working of man?

Not thru the human work of water-baptism. I worship not an idol as saving. There is only room for one SAvior in the universe; the Lord Jesus.

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, not of works lest anyone should boast.

Notice how many, many times we are told that faith/belief saves, and no water is mentioned!

Sirs, what MUST I DO to be saved?
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ & you shall be saved.

Will this be the day, NewB, when you repent of relegating the Savior to mere chance-giver? Will this be the day that you repent of trusting the idol of water baptism as your savior? Will this be the day that you trust the Lord Jesus as your Savior, for a new birth & everlasting life?

Cease the debate & take the knee: For whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved (no water mentioned). This is the call of faith.

No faith mentioned either....your logic must only work for you...
you have it your way my friend not God's way

you disobey God because it is a human work? faith without works is dead my friend.....

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Colossians 2:11-13King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

[SUP]13 [/SUP]And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

you say it is spirit baptism but that baptism is a representation of death unto resurrection so it has to be water...one is not buried in spirit baptism. it say we are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God. who raised Christ from the dead and we were dead in the uncircumcision of our flesh, but he made us alive together with him, having forgiven us all our sins...that is what he says happens at baptism....

The only way you are "quickened" is by the Spirit = born again of the Spirit = baptism with Holy Spirit = through faith of the operation of God = made alive together with him = NO WATER

you don't understand what the death of the old man means...It means the dictates of the flesh have no power over you...you have the power to say no to sin...the only reason we have to continually put on the new man is because we continually hold on to the old man...when God purged us from our old sins he gave us the (HS) power to become sons by following the dictates of the spirit

I understand fully what the death of the "old man" means . . . I know that it is not an automatic thing . . . it is a putting away of the old nature [habits] you had before being born again and putting on the new man - the new creation created when you were born again - didn't I say all this before? In order to become a son of God you must be born again of holy Spirit . . . .

2 Peter 1:8-10King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature [Spirit], having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust . . .
give all diligence [earnestness, striving after anything], [to] add to your faith virtue [a virtuous course of thought, feeling and action];
and to virtue knowledge [general intelligence, understanding]; and to knowledge temperance [self control];
and to temperance patience [steadfastness, constancy, endurance]; and to patience godliness [reverence, respect towards God];
and to godliness brotherly kindness [love of Christians as brethren] and to brotherly kindness charity [love as God is love].
For if these things be in you and abound [increase] they make you that you shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
But he that lacketh these things . . . . . . .
for if ye do these things [what things? water baptism?] ye shall never fall: . . . .

What does this have to do with a believer being baptized?

 

[john832]

Nine pages and Mac4Yuma was the only one who understood?

 

[newbirth]

The only way you are "quickened" is by the Spirit = born again of the Spirit = baptism with Holy Spirit = through faith of the operation of God = made alive together with him = NO WATER

I understand fully what the death of the "old man" means . . . I know that it is not an automatic thing . . . it is a putting away of the old nature [habits] you had before being born again and putting on the new man - the new creation created when you were born again - didn't I say all this before? In order to become a son of God you must be born again of holy Spirit . . . .

According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature [Spirit], having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust . . .
give all diligence [earnestness, striving after anything], [to] add to your faith virtue [a virtuous course of thought, feeling and action];
and to virtue knowledge [general intelligence, understanding]; and to knowledge temperance [self control];
and to temperance patience [steadfastness, constancy, endurance]; and to patience godliness [reverence, respect towards God];
and to godliness brotherly kindness [love of Christians as brethren] and to brotherly kindness charity [love as God is love].
For if these things be in you and abound [increase] they make you that you shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
But he that lacketh these things . . . . . . .
for if ye do these things [what things? water baptism?] ye shall never fall: . . . .

What does this have to do with a believer being baptized?

[SUP]9 [/SUP]But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.


[SUP]11 [/SUP]In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

[SUP]12 [/SUP]Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

[SUP]13 [/SUP]And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;


[h=1]Colossians 2:11-13Names of God Bible (NOG)[/h] [SUP]11 [/SUP]In him you were also circumcised. It was not a circumcision performed by human hands. But it was a removal of the corrupt nature in the circumcision performed by Christ. [SUP]12 [/SUP]This happened when you were placed in the tomb with Christ through baptism. In baptism you were also brought back to life with Christ through faith in the power of God,[SUP][a][/SUP] who brought him back to life.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]You were once dead because of your failures and your uncircumcised corrupt nature. But God made you alive with Christ when he forgave all our failures.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

[SUP]9 [/SUP]But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
[SUP]12[/SUP]Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

2 Peter 1:5-7 He that lacks [these things] faith, virtue, knowledge, temperance, patience, godliness, brotherly kindness, charity [love] [v9] is blind and cannot see far off and has forgotten he was purged from his old sins . . . you use this then go to Colossians 2:11-13?

Colossians 2:11-13Names of God Bible (NOG)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]In him you were also circumcised. It was not a circumcision performed by human hands. But it was a removal of the corrupt nature in the circumcision performed by Christ. [SUP]12 [/SUP]This happened when you were placed in the tomb with Christ through baptism. In baptism you were also brought back to life with Christ through faith in the power of God,[SUP][a][/SUP] who brought him back to life.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]You were once dead because of your failures and your uncircumcised corrupt nature. But God made you alive with Christ when he forgave all our failures.

In HIM [Christ Jesus] - we were circumcised - IN HIM - THROUGH HIM - BY HIM - we are circumcised having our corrupt nature cut away - BY CHRIST - CHRIST DID IT. We are complete in him [10] We are buried with him in baptism - and we are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God . . . all symbolic of what happens when we are born again of the Spirit = baptized with holy Spirit. We still live in the flesh and will until we die. We are quickened [made alive] by the new birth, being born again of the Spirit = baptized with holy Spirit.

there is ONE baptism - John truly baptized with water but HE shall baptize you with Holy Spirit

I believe with the ascension of Jesus Christ the new birth was made available which equals "HE shall baptize you with Holy Spirit"; i.e. "living water" = one baptism. Thirst no more . . . . .

 

[Alligator]

The thief on the cross proves that one does not need to be water baptized in order to be saved. Jesus was baptized just like everybody else was baptized and the Holy Spirit had descended on Him like a dove. Receiving the Spirit for the rest of mankind is different. It shows that you are saved if you receive the Holy Spirit. Romans 5:5 testifies to that fact. For how can the "love of God" be spread abroad within our hearts from the Holy Ghost if we are not saved? Yet, we can read about how believers have received the Spirit before they were water baptized.

When I was water baptized, I didn't do it for salvation. I was fully aware that it was not for the putting away of the filth of the flesh and it was done as a part of having a good conscience towards God. I was saved long before I was water baptized. Is my salvation in question? Do I need to get re-baptized thinking it will save me so as to be saved? Or was I one of the lucky ones?

The thief on the cross doesn't prove anything as far as our salvation is concerned. We live under a new covenant since Christ died on the cross. See Heb. 9:16-17. The thief lived under the old law.

 

[Alligator]

You can post every version of Acts 2:38 known to man and it will not change that Acts 2:38 is Holy Spirit baptism. Baptizo is never water baptism.

If you have not the Holy Spirit you are not of Christ. It is the witness of the Holy Spirit with our spirit that evidences our salvation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Re: John 5:3 and Baptismal Regeneration Refuted

Originally Posted by notuptome

The Greek Baptizo is used here which is to submerge the word you are looking for is bapto which is to dip repeatedly. Baptizo is never used for water baptism. A whole host of folks have endeavored to illuminate you on this simple truth.
Philip asked him saying if thou believest thou mayest. The eunuch believed on Christ and was saved before he went into the water. Clear as day. The eunuchs answer was that he believed on Christ.

Then behold your error. Scripture admonishes you to study to show yourself approved that you be not ashamed. Stubborness is no substitute for biblical study.

For the cause of Christ
Roger




Greek Baptizo is used here which is to submerge the word you are looking for is bapto which is to dip repeatedly. Baptizo is never used for water baptism. A whole host of folks have endeavored to illuminate you on this

Oh really. Look at this: Matt. 3:11 Jesus said "I baptize you with water" and guess what word he uses, BAPTIZO. Acts 2:38; Mark 16:15-16; are other scriptures that use it. You re spreading false information. It is obvious you are just trying to make a case for Spirit baptism.

As far as the eunuch goes, show me where faith alone is all that's necessary for salvation .


Are you going to continue with spreading this lie? See my post above which you never responded to, I can see why.​

 

[newbirth]

2 Peter 1:5-7 He that lacks [these things] faith, virtue, knowledge, temperance, patience, godliness, brotherly kindness, charity [love] [v9] is blind and cannot see far off and has forgotten he was purged from his old sins . . . you use this then go to Colossians 2:11-13?

In HIM [Christ Jesus] - we were circumcised - IN HIM - THROUGH HIM - BY HIM - we are circumcised having our corrupt nature cut away - BY CHRIST - CHRIST DID IT. We are complete in him [10] We are buried with him in baptism - and we are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God . . . all symbolic of what happens when we are born again of the Spirit = baptized with holy Spirit. We still live in the flesh and will until we die. We are quickened [made alive] by the new birth, being born again of the Spirit = baptized with holy Spirit.

there is ONE baptism - John truly baptized with water but HE shall baptize you with Holy Spirit

I believe with the ascension of Jesus Christ the new birth was made available which equals "HE shall baptize you with Holy Spirit"; i.e. "living water" = one baptism. Thirst no more . . . . .

what you believe does not change anything... We are buried with him in baptism...you are denying this portion of scripture... the scripture teaches the corrupt nature is cut of ..put away from us...you teach we still live in the flesh... your problem is you are living in the flesh and want to be living in the spirit at the same time...

Galatians 5:16-26King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

[SUP]17 [/SUP]For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

[SUP]25 [/SUP]If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

 

[SeaBass]

the word "baptize" is not translated in English. it's transliterated. the Greek word, as i understand it, literally means "to submerge or immerse" and is associated contextually with a very common practice among the Jews of purely ceremonial washing with water.

so what do we have when the John talks about 'walking in the spirit' ?

when Peter was explaining what had happened at the house of Cornelius (Acts 11), he spoke as though he understood what had happened to those that heard & believed was baptism by the Spirit, by Christ, who baptizes with spirit. so Peter did not understand Christ to mean that He only baptized the apostles, or only baptized those at pentecost this way - but all those who believe on the name of Jesus - not only Jews, but Gentiles also, and that justification, by God, not men, took place before they obediently took part in the physical custom of initiation and declaration of water baptism. in fact, before Peter even spoke with them, the scripture even calls these believers "disciples" - which is what the 'commission' so often quoted instructed the apostles to 'make' out of people from every nation.

---Cornelius was water baptized and it was this baptism that was commanded (therefore essential to salvation) and had to do with Cornelius salvation in remitting his sins per Acts 2:38

---Cornelius could not be saved until he "worked righteousness" Acts 10:35. Cornelius submitting to God's command to be water baptized is working righteousness. An unbaptized believer threfore is one who has NOT worked righteousness but is working unrighteousness by rejecting the gospel message, Acts 2:41,44.

 

[SeaBass]

Does your bible have Titus 3:5?

You are cause for great concern. If you have not the Holy Spirit you are not of Christ. Jesus said the He would be in us and we would be in Him. Abiding in Christ is only possible with the presence of the Holy Spirit.

You are confessing that you are not Christian and not promised a place in heaven.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Titus 3:5 says we are saved by washing of regeneration/water baptism.

 

[dcontroversal]

The thief on the cross doesn't prove anything as far as our salvation is concerned. We live under a new covenant since Christ died on the cross. See Heb. 9:16-17. The thief lived under the old law.

This view rejects the obvious truth of the following...

The law and the prophets were UNTIL JOHN......and SINCE THAT TIME THE KINGDOM OF GOD has been preached!