-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
As a woman my nature is to be a pacifist as I don't want to fight with anybody. But if I should be walking down the street and witnessed a man assaulting another woman first thing I would do is say a quick prayer and since I don't want or have a cell phone I would not be able to call for police. I probably would go in and try to distract the man or even jump on his back and take a few blows myself to try and help the victim.
I witnessed a mother verbally brow beating a child in a laundry mat one time to the point of excess and I jumped in verbally to distract her anger from the child to me and I don't regret it.
As a neighbor I have heard domestic disputes and I have picked up the phone and called the police to get help for the victim. I live in a better neighborhood now not that it doesn't mean it couldn't happen here too, but I have not witnessed it or had to make that phone call.
I totally respect the military folks who defend our country so we can have the freedoms we enjoy and am glad that someone is willing to do the fighting for me. But my nature is one of peace and tranquility.
I witnessed a mother verbally brow beating a child in a laundry mat one time to the point of excess and I jumped in verbally to distract her anger from the child to me and I don't regret it.
As a neighbor I have heard domestic disputes and I have picked up the phone and called the police to get help for the victim. I live in a better neighborhood now not that it doesn't mean it couldn't happen here too, but I have not witnessed it or had to make that phone call.
I totally respect the military folks who defend our country so we can have the freedoms we enjoy and am glad that someone is willing to do the fighting for me. But my nature is one of peace and tranquility.
The common arguments against defense of others using physical force is inaccurate in it's most basic form and nobody seems to hear the repeated corrections. The same dry, crusty arguments appear over and over and over...
"vengeance is the Lords"
ven·geance- Infliction of punishment in return for a wrong committed; retribution.
protection1. a. The act of protecting.
b. The condition of being protected.
2. One that protects.
3. A pass guaranteeing safe-conduct to travelers.
Matthew 5
[SUP]39 [/SUP]But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
We have expressed this before. It's weird that Jesus mentions the right cheek. So why did He do it? to strike the right cheek was either a backhanded right or the "dirty" hand. Both are a sign of disgrace. This is over pride. Yet again and again this verse is used to "prove" God doesn't want you to protect the innocent.
I continually hear. Jesus never talks about protecting people. Then when we say "we already covered that in the OT" the reply is "God changed" (that is basically what you are all saying) Because Jesus never touches base on it again. When you learned how to print then in the next grade you learned cursive- did you expect to have to be taught how to print again? suddenly now were you never to use printing again? how about addition and subtraction? did you lose that the moment you learned multiplication and division?
We were never talking about vengeance
We were never talking about pride
We were never talking about judgment (as the law judges)
Judgement-Law.
We aren't saying "He is a murderer, lets kill him" we are saying "If you don't step away from that child you may die"
the intent isn't to kill, but there is only one thing we insist upon. Between us (the protectors) the killer and the child. Only ourselves and/or the killer will die here today. That child is going home, regardless.
Don't call that vengeance. Don't call that pride. Don't call that "trusting ourselves" it was God who put us there, it was God who gave us the ability and it was God who delivered our enemy to our hands and delivered the child from the killers hand.
God gets the glory.
"vengeance is the Lords"
ven·geance- Infliction of punishment in return for a wrong committed; retribution.
protection1. a. The act of protecting.
b. The condition of being protected.
2. One that protects.
3. A pass guaranteeing safe-conduct to travelers.
Matthew 5
[SUP]39 [/SUP]But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
We have expressed this before. It's weird that Jesus mentions the right cheek. So why did He do it? to strike the right cheek was either a backhanded right or the "dirty" hand. Both are a sign of disgrace. This is over pride. Yet again and again this verse is used to "prove" God doesn't want you to protect the innocent.
I continually hear. Jesus never talks about protecting people. Then when we say "we already covered that in the OT" the reply is "God changed" (that is basically what you are all saying) Because Jesus never touches base on it again. When you learned how to print then in the next grade you learned cursive- did you expect to have to be taught how to print again? suddenly now were you never to use printing again? how about addition and subtraction? did you lose that the moment you learned multiplication and division?
We were never talking about vengeance
We were never talking about pride
We were never talking about judgment (as the law judges)
Judgement-Law.
- a judicial decision given by a judge or court.
- the obligation, especially a debt, arising from a judicial decision.
We aren't saying "He is a murderer, lets kill him" we are saying "If you don't step away from that child you may die"
the intent isn't to kill, but there is only one thing we insist upon. Between us (the protectors) the killer and the child. Only ourselves and/or the killer will die here today. That child is going home, regardless.
Don't call that vengeance. Don't call that pride. Don't call that "trusting ourselves" it was God who put us there, it was God who gave us the ability and it was God who delivered our enemy to our hands and delivered the child from the killers hand.
God gets the glory.
E
Philippians 2:3-4 "Let nothing be done through the selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself. Let each of you look out not only for his own interests, but also for the interests of others."
Now some of you think that because I am willing (willing being the key word here) to use lethal force that it means I enter a violent situation "guns blazing". That's not the case. The lethal part would ONLY come in to play as a last resort.
I would stop the violence by any means necessary non lethal if possible, lethal if it's the ONLY way to stop the violence.
I read most of the posts from last night and it's kinda funny. It was almost men vs women but the women were the ones willing to step up.
Now some of you think that because I am willing (willing being the key word here) to use lethal force that it means I enter a violent situation "guns blazing". That's not the case. The lethal part would ONLY come in to play as a last resort.
I would stop the violence by any means necessary non lethal if possible, lethal if it's the ONLY way to stop the violence.
I read most of the posts from last night and it's kinda funny. It was almost men vs women but the women were the ones willing to step up.
And the lethal part is not what is in the New Testament. No such NT Command has been given to us so that we can be violent against an attacker. Oh, and no. As for Jesus referencing in turning the other cheek: The OT reference makes it clear that this was in executing judgment. Jesus later mentions the law and going the extra mile with them so as to show the theme that you are to do good unto those who do evil against you. This is why Paul says, do no be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. The the OT passage is talking about rendering evil for evil. It's a theme. Jesus and Paul both talk about rendering good for evil done against you. This theme of doing good for evil done against is apparent again when Jesus says,
[TABLE="class: maintable3, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE="class: maintable3, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]
[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]"Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]"Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Last edited:
Yeah, he also tells us to not add words where words were not used...like ACCUSING of flying into an uncontrolled rage...when it is obvious that I never said that....and if you knew Marines you would know we are trained to stay COOL under stressful situations and USE our brains and our AIM-------------------------------------->One shot, One KILL <-----I said this so you can put the heat back on me!
Exactly what I was thinking.....One verse verbatim that God will hold a man guilty f he defends a child or woman being brutally raped and or murdered and it results in the death of the offender.....YOU WILL NOT find it, BUT you will find verses in both the O.T. and the N.T. that teaches GOD is consistently the SAME, DOES NOT CHANGE and HE JUDGED ISRAEL and ALL men and ALL nations that will not DEFEND the WEAK and or PROVIDE ASSISTANCE IN TIME OF NEED and THERE IS A TIME to KILL and a TIME for war.....No need to waste your time with those who will continually reject the principles found in the word of God for sure!
I am not talking about murder, but rather the death of an offender when attempting to stop a violent murder of a child and or little old lady or a defenseless woman!
I am not talking about murder, but rather the death of an offender when attempting to stop a violent murder of a child and or little old lady or a defenseless woman!
K
Did I say this is a new teaching, no.
What I made appoint is that some take and want to take that vengeance on themselves to do, and not leave it to the Lord.
I will always stand by my original point, that self defense is acceptable but the measure you use in that self defense can have a misuse of force.
If you use more force than needed to stop the situation then you will be in the wrong, if you can stop a situation with out the result of some one being killed then you should go that route. Kill first mentality should never and is never appropriate.
What I made appoint is that some take and want to take that vengeance on themselves to do, and not leave it to the Lord.
I will always stand by my original point, that self defense is acceptable but the measure you use in that self defense can have a misuse of force.
If you use more force than needed to stop the situation then you will be in the wrong, if you can stop a situation with out the result of some one being killed then you should go that route. Kill first mentality should never and is never appropriate.
I can tell you any man that would not act is a coward and....
1. Doesn't know the Lord OR
2. Is blind to the will of the Lord OR
3. Rejects the leadership of the Spirit of God
To stand and pray while she is raped is foolish.....
To react while praying for strength to overcome the attacker is BIBLICAL even if it REQUIRES LETHAL FORCE!
EXCELLENT POINTS FOR SURE!
1. Doesn't know the Lord OR
2. Is blind to the will of the Lord OR
3. Rejects the leadership of the Spirit of God
To stand and pray while she is raped is foolish.....
To react while praying for strength to overcome the attacker is BIBLICAL even if it REQUIRES LETHAL FORCE!
EXCELLENT POINTS FOR SURE!