We establish the Law...but how?

[chubbena]

On the heart for gentiles...

For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another.
(Rom 2:14-15)

This of course is speaking of unregenerate Gentiles. I agree, Jeremiah's promise (Jer 31)of the new birth can be seen as a rewriting on the heart with indelible ink.

I see the Gentiles being grafted into the spiritual blessings of Abraham/Israel but not the physical (another topic for sure).

I don't quite follow. On one hand you said

In context of Rom 3:31 the law is God's mirror of righteousness either written on the heart (Gentiles)

and on the other you said

This of course is speaking of unregenerate Gentiles

but God spoke through Jeremiah "This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time. I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.
1. Those have the law in their minds are the true people of Israel, not unregenerate gentile.
2. The law in the context of Jeremiah 31 is not a new set of law but the very same law the Israelites broke in the previous covenant cf Jeremiah 11 where He said: "Listen to the terms of this covenant and tell them to the people of Judah and to those who live in Jerusalem. Tell them that this is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: ‘Cursed is the one who does not obey the terms of this covenant— the terms I commanded your ancestors when I brought them out of Egypt, out of the iron-smelting furnace.’ I said, ‘Obey me and do everything I command you, and you will be my people, and I will be your God."
He said in Deuteronomy 6:4-6 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.[SUP] [/SUP]Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.[SUP] [/SUP]These commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts.

The Israelites failed to put His law in their hearts to necessitate God Himself putting His law in their hearts.

 

[chubbena]

Hello chubbena
But thats the way GOD related to the children of Isreal before JESUS came down and died on the cross and nailed the handwriting of ordinances that was against us to the cross.
Since JESUS has finished the work,don't you think a person is in a way saying that what JESUS did was not enough and i need to help out.
I think the person needs to accept the grace provided and just rest.
A person can't mix the law with grace.
Its either all GOD or its all you.

Why did JESUS even come down if HOLY GOD will only accept truth on the inside?

Please share your understand of "the handwriting of ordinance that was against us" but allow me to share mine first:
The law is either a blessing or curse depending whether the Israelites obey or disobey cf Deuteronomy 28.
He repeated in Deuteronomy 30:11-20 Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask, “Who will ascend into heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask, “Who will cross the sea to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it. See, I set before you today life and prosperity, death and destruction. For I command you today to love the Lord your God, to walk in obedience to him, and to keep his commands, decrees and laws; then you will live and increase, and the Lord your God will bless you in the land you are entering to possess. But if your heart turns away and you are not obedient, and if you are drawn away to bow down to other gods and worship them, I declare to you this day that you will certainly be destroyed. You will not live long in the land you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess. This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live and that you may love the Lord your God, listen to his voice, and hold fast to him. For the Lord is your life, and he will give you many years in the land he swore to give to your fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

There is nothing against the people of God if they choose wisely i.e. to obey His Word.

Now come back to the verse "...nailed the handwriting of ordinances that was against us to the cross." Who are the "us"?

He died on the cross so that our sins are forgiven but the book of Hebrews said' "If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left." So what is obeying His commandments helping?

Paul said "What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?" Grace is not a license to sin.

Paul said "What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law." And he didn't mix the law with grace.

It's either every word coming from the mouth of God or it's all wrong.

The Word of God came to show man how one could live according to His Word. Man does not necessarily have to sin to live.
The Word of God came to show man how one could live a sinless life by the Spirit.
Why does man trust in his weakness and say one could not live by not sinning?

 

[crossnote]

I don't quite follow. On one hand you said and on the other you said but God spoke through Jeremiah "This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time. I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.
1. Those have the law in their minds are the true people of Israel, not unregenerate gentile.
2. The law in the context of Jeremiah 31 is not a new set of law but the very same law the Israelites broke in the previous covenant cf Jeremiah 11 where He said: "Listen to the terms of this covenant and tell them to the people of Judah and to those who live in Jerusalem. Tell them that this is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: ‘Cursed is the one who does not obey the terms of this covenant— the terms I commanded your ancestors when I brought them out of Egypt, out of the iron-smelting furnace.’ I said, ‘Obey me and do everything I command you, and you will be my people, and I will be your God."
He said in Deuteronomy 6:4-6 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.[SUP] [/SUP]Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.[SUP] [/SUP]These commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts.

The Israelites failed to put His law in their hearts to necessitate God Himself putting His law in their hearts.

There is a difference between the marred, fallen conscience of fallen man (gentiles in the case of Rom 2) and the fresh rewritten nature spoken in Jer 31 and John 3.
It's not a matter of us putting God's law in our hearts but God who writes His nature through the new birth.
But I perceive many Messianics for some reason don't seem to grasp this point and see the christian simply as a forgiven 'natural' man who's duty is to keep the law in their freed state. Regeneration doesn't seem to be part of the equation.

 

[Elin]

I'm asking the one who said the wordings are different. . .how are the wordings different?

One might want to go to post #433 and see how one pulled two words out of my post and made a speech.

POST #433:

Thanks for bringing up this last part in Rom 7, it dovetails nicely with 1Cor 15..

For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death.

So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. (1Co 15:54-57)

Notice the struggle goes on until..."when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written,"

What struggle if one believes to obey the Lord is one thing and to keep the law is another?
But Paul wrote: "I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin."
He also wrote: "The sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so."
Not until one lets the Holy Spirit in charge would he be able to submit to God's law.

In charge? We don't let the Holy Spirit regenerate us.
We have nothing to do with our spiritual rebirth, just as we have nothing to do with our natural birth.

Until his sinful unregenerate nature is reborn of the Holy Spirit into eternal life,
unregenerate man is rebellious, insubordinate and spiritually powerless to do anything that pleases God.

Paul describes a life and death struggle which, with his fallen nature, he has no power to win,
and from which he is rescued (not his own power letting, but) through Jesus Christ our Lord!
(Ro 7:24-25)

The first operation of the Holy Spirit in unregenerate man is rebirth into eternal life.
Those who live (eternal life in rebirth) by the Spirit will walk (keep in step) with the Spirit (Gal 5:25),
which I suspect is what you mean by "letting the Holy Spirit in charge."

We don't let the Holy Spirit be in charge of us, any more than we let the holy Spirit give us eternal life.
It is all the result of the new birth by the will of God (Jn 1:13) and power of the Holy Spirit (Jn 3:5).

 

[BradC]

Mention those things that remained the same after the death, burial and resurrection (DBR) of Christ and when you do, please explain the application of this verse of scripture in (2Cor 5:17)...

17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

What were the old things that passed away and what are the all things that have become new?

If old things are passed away and all things have become new for those who believe in Christ, how does the law apply to those who are new creatures in Christ? How did the law apply to those who were under the law before Christ came and was crucified? After Christ's (DBR) how did the law apply to those who Christ made new creatures in Him? No man prior to the (DBR) of Christ were made new creatures, they were under the law and had to abide by the law. If Christ came only to take away the condemnation of the law, He could have done that without shedding his blood, for he could have taken away the law given it no application and premise for man to be under it. But Christ did not come to do that or to destroy the law but to fulfill it.

God through the law was not able to impute His righteousness to man because sinful man was not able to keep it through the weakness of his sinful flesh. So God sent his Son and according to (2Cor 5:19) did this...

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

How did God not impute the trespasses of the world unto them when they were guilty? He did so by vicariously imputing those trespasses onto the body of his Son and by doing so, God took away not only the condemnation of the law but every single violation of it, therefore it cancelled the purpose of the law that all men were under.

Col 2:13,14 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

View attachment 89272

When some of you read this post you resist the Holy Spirit by resisting conviction that comes according to the scriptures mentioned. If any believer resists the Holy Spirit that is unwise and unprofitable.

 

[john832]

In the new covenant, it is the law of Christ (Mt 22:37-39; Ro 9:21; Gal 5:6) spoken
by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers in their commands
and exhortations.

Which is the summation of the Ten Commandments, not the replacement of the Ten Commandments.

 

[john832]

In context of Rom 3:31 the law is God's mirror of righteousness either written on the heart (Gentiles) or given verbally/written (Jews) in which if a man lives accordingly he is justified/ declared as righteous before God. Also in context of Rom 2 and 3, no man has attained the righteousness of the Law except One...Jesus Christ.
Thus those who point to Christ, trust in, uplift, defer to, acknowledge that, confess that He is righteous and only Him is establishing the Law as it was meant to be lived and are not pointing to themselves.

Yet Paul says that the Commandment to love your neighbor is actually the last six Commandments of the Ten Commandments...

Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Christ said that not a jot or tittle would pass from His Law until ALL is fulfilled...

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Luk 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

 

[john832]

The law is GODs standard and in the old testament it is GODs law and we know that GOD does not change,but when the law was given the WORD of GOD/JESUS had not yet come into the world in the flesh yet,so then wouldn't a person have to keep the law without help and no man was able to keep it except JESUS.

A person saying since GOD gave it in the old testament we then should try to keep it even though we know we keep coming up short and GOD will only accept perfection(the inward man).

If you are still trying to keep it then you are still on milk and haven't learned and are still crawling.

So the one who goes around blatantly ignoring and breaking the Law is the one who is a mature Christian and fed on meat?

If that's where you are then I understand but when its time to walk don't you think you should come up higher, eat meat and stop crawling.

If you are mature and breaking God's Law, lying, stealing taking God's name in vain, etc. and labeling yourself a mature Christian, then you'll excuse me if I remain in diapers.

1 Corinthians 13:11king james version(kjv)

11.)When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
And if you don't accept that then here is another scripture

2 Timothy3:7

king james version(kjv)

7.)Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Here is another for you...

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

And you may want to read this one...

Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

 

[john832]

They were not able to keep the law in the old testament because of the of the weakness of the flesh.

GOD only accepts perfection,and since JESUS was the only one that was sin free not only in the flesh,but also inside and since GOD will only accept perfection,didn't we need someone who was/is perfect.

And you have a scripture for this? In the mean time...

1Ch 28:2 Then David the king stood up upon his feet, and said, Hear me, my brethren, and my people: As for me, I had in mine heart to build an house of rest for the ark of the covenant of the LORD, and for the footstool of our God, and had made ready for the building:
1Ch 28:3 But God said unto me, Thou shalt not build an house for my name, because thou hast been a man of war, and hast shed blood.

David was not perfect, yet we read this...

Act 13:22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.

And we also read this...

Eze 37:24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
Eze 37:25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.

God is going to resurrect imperfect David and make him king over all Israel.

I hope by trying to be obedient to the law of Moses you don't feel like you are helping GOD out because if you are not keeping the law perfectly you need a savoir who was perfect or you will not be accepted.

I'm not saying throw it out.

Then what are you saying? You say not to keep it, that we shouldn't obey it but you are not throwing it out?

The law was given for a reason

Its hard for tradition of men to believe its GRACE through faith.
they feel like they have to do something other than believe the WORD who GOD sent.

Deu 5:29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

I am pretty sure you don't know what the Law is, why it was given and what it produces.

 

[oldthennew]

We seek a thread where God's Law of Love prevails.

Many frame their own mischief into God's Law, but soon
He takes their paws out of the dish and they will wish they
had not been so foolhardy with His Word.

Why do so many invest their time in pointless vanity?
Many sort and sift God's Word until the doctrine heard
is theirs and not His.
Can a man steal God's Truth away and not pay the price?

1PETER 1:22.
Seeing you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit
unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that you love one another with a pure heart fervently:

 

[john832]

We seek a thread where God's Law of Love prevails.

Many frame their own mischief into God's Law, but soon
He takes their paws out of the dish and they will wish they
had not been so foolhardy with His Word.

Why do so many invest their time in pointless vanity?
Many sort and sift God's Word until the doctrine heard
is theirs and not His.
Can a man steal God's Truth away and not pay the price?

1PETER 1:22.
Seeing you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit
unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that you love one another with a pure heart fervently:

God's Law of love?

1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

 

[Elin]

In the new covenant, the law of God is the law of Christ (Mt 22:37-39; Ro 9:21;
Gal 5:6) spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers in their commands and exhortations.

Which is the summation of the Ten Commandments, not the replacement of the Ten Commandments.

Actually, the law of Christ is the fulfillment of the Ten Commandments, as well as
all the law and the prophets (Mt 22:40).

 

[crossnote]

Yet Paul says that the Commandment to love your neighbor is actually the last six Commandments of the Ten Commandments...

Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Christ said that not a jot or tittle would pass from His Law until ALL is fulfilled...

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Luk 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

Not sure of your point.
Paul never mentioned the word 'ten' so 'six of ten' is a non issue.
Was ALL the law fulfilled by Christ or will all the law be fulfilled by you?

 

[john832]

Not sure of your point.
Paul never mentioned the word 'ten' so 'six of ten' is a non issue.
Was ALL the law fulfilled by Christ or will all the law be fulfilled by you?

What does fulfill mean?

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

G4137
πληρόω
plēroō
play-ro'-o
From G4134; to make replete, that is, (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow), or (figuratively) to furnish (or imbue, diffuse, influence), satisfy, execute (an office), finish (a period or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.: - accomplish, X after, (be) complete, end, expire, fill (up), fulfil, (be, make) full (come), fully preach, perfect, supply.

Which certainly does not mean do away with...

Isa 42:21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

magnify:

H1431
גּדל
gâdal
gaw-dal'
A primitive root; properly to twist (compare H1434), that is, to be (causatively make) large (in various senses, as in body, mind, estate or honor, also in pride): - advance, boast, bring up, exceed, excellent, be (-come, do, give, make, wax), great (-er, come to . . estate, + things), grow (up), increase, lift up, magnify (-ifical), be much set by, nourish (up), pass, promote, proudly [spoken], tower.

 

[Elin]

They were not able to keep the law in the old testament because of the of the weakness of the flesh.

And you have a scripture for this?

Try Gal 3:10.

 

[crossnote]

What does fulfill mean?

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

G4137
πληρόω
plēroō
play-ro'-o
From G4134; to make replete, that is, (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow), or (figuratively) to furnish (or imbue, diffuse, influence), satisfy, execute (an office), finish (a period or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.: - accomplish, X after, (be) complete, end, expire, fill (up), fulfil, (be, make) full (come), fully preach, perfect, supply.

Which certainly does not mean do away with...

Isa 42:21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

magnify:

H1431
גּדל
gâdal
gaw-dal'
A primitive root; properly to twist (compare H1434), that is, to be (causatively make) large (in various senses, as in body, mind, estate or honor, also in pride): - advance, boast, bring up, exceed, excellent, be (-come, do, give, make, wax), great (-er, come to . . estate, + things), grow (up), increase, lift up, magnify (-ifical), be much set by, nourish (up), pass, promote, proudly [spoken], tower.

Where did I say the law was done away?
Fulfill's meaning depends on context. So let's play 'pick a lexicon'

4137. πληροω pleroo; contracted plero, fut. pleroso, from pleres (G4134), full. To make full, fill. Trans.
(I) Particularly, to fill a vessel or hollow place; pass. (Matt. 13:48, the nets; Luke 3:5, a valley, quoted from Is. 40:4). Figuratively (Matt. 23:32, the measure of their sins; Sept.:2 Kgs. 4:4; Jer. 13:12). Generally of a place, to fill with something (John 12:3, the smell). (John 16:6, "sorrow has filled your heart" [a. t.]; figuratively, with the acc., Acts 5:3, "Satan filled your heart" [a. t.]; Acts 5:28, "you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching" [a. t. {cf. Sept.:2 Chr. 6:4 }]).

(II) Figuratively, to fill, supply abundantly with something, impart richly, imbue with, followed by the acc., often also with an adjunct of that with which someone is filled or supplied.
(A) With the acc. or gen. (Luke 2:40 [TR]; Acts 2:28; 13:52; Rom. 15:13, 14; Phil. 1:11 [TR]; 2 Tim. 1:4).
(B) Followed by the dat., in the pass. voice (Rom. 1:29; 2 Cor. 7:4).
(C) Followed by en (G1722), in, with the dat. (Eph. 5:18), instead of the simple dat. (Luke 2:40 [UBS]). In Eph. 5:18, the case is either locative or instrumental in meaning.
(D) Followed by the acc., simply meaning to supply fully (Eph. 1:23; 4:10, spoken of Christ as filling the universe with His influence, presence, and power; Phil. 4:19). In the pass., used in an absolute sense, meaning to be filled, full, to be fully supplied, to abound (Eph. 3:19, into or unto all the fullness of God [either that you may fully participate in all the rich gifts of God or that you may be received into full communion with the whole church of God]; Phil. 4:18; Col. 2:10, "complete in Him," i. e., in Christ, in His work). Also pass., with the acc. (Col. 1:9).
(III) To fulfill, perform fully, with the acc.
(A) Spoken of duty or obligation (Matt. 3:15; Acts 12:25; Col. 4:17).
(B) Of a declaration or prophecy, to fulfill or accomplish (Acts 3:18; 13:27). More often in the pass., to be fulfilled, accomplished, to have been accomplished (Matt. 2:17; 26:54; 27:9; Mark 15:28; Luke 1:20; 4:21; 21:22; 24:44; Acts 1:16; James 2:23). With hina (G2443), so that, followed by the subjunctive (Matt. 1:22; 2:15; 4:14; 21:4; 26:56; 27:35; Mark 14:49; John 12:38; 13:17; 15:25; 17:12; 18:9, 32; 19:24, 36); with hopos (G3704), so that, followed by the subjunctive (Matt. 2:23; 8:17; 12:17; 13:35).

(IV) To fulfill, bring to a full end, accomplish, complete.
(A) In the pass., of time, to be fulfilled, completed, ended (Mark 1:15; Luke 21:24; John 7:8; Acts 7:23, 30; 9:23; 24:27).
(B) Of a business or work, to accomplish, finish, complete (Luke 7:1; 9:31; Acts 13:25; 14:26; 19:21, Rom. 15:19, in the preaching of the gospel; Col. 1:25; Rev. 6:11 [TR], until their number is full or completed; Sept.:1 Kgs. 1:14).
(C) By implication, to fill out, complete, make perfect, accomplish an end (Matt. 5:17; Phil. 2:2; 2 Thess. 1:11). In the pass., to be made full, complete (Luke 22:16; John 3:29; 15:11; 16:24; 17:13; 2 Cor. 10:6; 1 John 1:4; 2 John 1:12; Rev. 3:2). Of persons (Col. 4:12). (CWSDict)

 

[john832]

Where did I say the law was done away?
Fulfill's meaning depends on context. So let's play 'pick a lexicon'

So, you don't think anything was done away? You believe that ALL TEN Commandments are in effect and have been magnified?

 

[chubbena]

There is a difference between the marred, fallen conscience of fallen man (gentiles in the case of Rom 2) and the fresh rewritten nature spoken in Jer 31 and John 3.
It's not a matter of us putting God's law in our hearts but God who writes His nature through the new birth.
But I perceive many Messianics for some reason don't seem to grasp this point and see the christian simply as a forgiven 'natural' man who's duty is to keep the law in their freed state. Regeneration doesn't seem to be part of the equation.

Thanks for explaining but no one here has said we put God's law in our hearts. On the other hand, if one has God's law in his heart one would certainly not speak against His law spoken through Moses by the Word of God.
Don't see why one would bracket those by faith establish the law in "a forgiven 'natural' man who's duty is to keep the law in their freed state". This is a good example of preconception.

 

[chubbena]

POST #433:

Paul describes a life and death struggle which, with his fallen nature, he has no power to win,
and from which he is rescued (not his own power letting, but) through Jesus Christ our Lord!
(Ro 7:24-25)

The first operation of the Holy Spirit in unregenerate man is rebirth into eternal life.
Those who live (eternal life in rebirth) by the Spirit will walk (keep in step) with the Spirit (Gal 5:25),
which I suspect is what you mean by "letting the Holy Spirit in charge."

We don't let the Holy Spirit be in charge of us, any more than we let the holy Spirit give us eternal life.
It is all the result of the new birth by the will of God (Jn 1:13) and power of the Holy Spirit (Jn 3:5).

Gotta ask why one asked the question in #471.

 

[Elin]

Paul describes a life and death struggle which, with his fallen nature, he has no power to win,
and from which he is rescued (not his own power letting, but) through Jesus Christ our Lord!
(Ro 7:24-25)

The first operation of the Holy Spirit in unregenerate man is rebirth into eternal life.
Those who live (eternal life in rebirth) by the Spirit will walk (keep in step) with the Spirit (Gal 5:25),
which I suspect is what you mean by "letting the Holy Spirit in charge."

We don't let the Holy Spirit be in charge of us, any more than we let the holy Spirit give us eternal life.
It is all the result of the new birth by the will of God (Jn 1:13) and power of the Holy Spirit (Jn 3:5).

Gotta ask why one asked the question in #471.

Previously addressed, here.

Pay attention. . .you're going in circles.