What did the Jew receive first?
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just wanted you to know i saw this.
and i thank you for taking the time to thoughtfully answer my question.
i certainly do agree with you that the entire Bible is for Christians...it's a Christian Book!
and i thank you for taking the time to thoughtfully answer my question.
i certainly do agree with you that the entire Bible is for Christians...it's a Christian Book!
i'm...sorry? please would you be more specific as to what you're accusing me of?
then i would be able to answer you better.
then i would be able to answer you better.
You posted that the entire bible was for Christians, and I think so too. I was pointing out some ways posters do not include the entire bible when they search for truth, and asking if you could look at these things and figure out how people could believe in the entire bible and still believe the things I list?
I think it ties into this thread because so many believe that true mysteries were only given after Christ, ignoring the OT.
There is a liberal agenda within today's church. It is a combination of the doctrine of Constantine unfolding into Catholicism that hated anything that was affiliated with the Jews, a 60's hippie philosophy of free everything one desires, a communistic theory when Khrushchev said "we will bury you without firing a shot," evolving into a religion that allows iniquity to run rampant via rejection of the moral concepts of the love described in the law given to Israel. If the church took the law seriously rather than some fervently wanting it to vanish, we would have a country that exacted correct punishment on criminals and a monetary system that was honest and prosperous. The law God gave to Israel was for that purpose to be a witness to the entire world, exemplifying God's grace and care for His own.
Deuteronomy 1:8 Behold, I have set the land before you: go in and possess the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give unto them and to their seed after them.
Deuteronomy 4:5-6
5 Behold , I have taught you statutes and judgments, even as the LORD my God commanded me, that ye should do so in the land whither ye go to possess it.
6 Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say , Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.
Deuteronomy 11:8-12
8 Therefore shall ye keep all the commandments which I command you this day, that ye may be strong, and go in and possess the land, whither ye go to possess it;
9 And that ye may prolong your days in the land, which the LORD sware unto your fathers to give unto them and to their seed, a land that floweth with milk and honey.
10 For the land, whither thou goest in to possess it, is not as the land of Egypt, from whence ye came out , where thou sowedst thy seed, and wateredst it with thy foot, as a garden of herbs:
11 But the land, whither ye go to possess it, is a land of hills and valleys, and drinketh water of the rain of heaven:
12 A land which the LORD thy God careth for: the eyes of the LORD thy God are always upon it, from the beginning of the year even unto the end of the year.
Through Christ, God has given all of His true children a possession to take care of. It is called salvation. It is also true that this salvation is based on having faith in His Word, i.e. His "Name". That faith is for us to protect, defend, and possess, and is to be used to understand where the adversary's abode is that defines his agenda. Our adversary has been defeated time after time with the truth found in God's law. The truth is hated.
Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort [you] that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
Deuteronomy 1:8 Behold, I have set the land before you: go in and possess the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give unto them and to their seed after them.
Deuteronomy 4:5-6
5 Behold , I have taught you statutes and judgments, even as the LORD my God commanded me, that ye should do so in the land whither ye go to possess it.
6 Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say , Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.
Deuteronomy 11:8-12
8 Therefore shall ye keep all the commandments which I command you this day, that ye may be strong, and go in and possess the land, whither ye go to possess it;
9 And that ye may prolong your days in the land, which the LORD sware unto your fathers to give unto them and to their seed, a land that floweth with milk and honey.
10 For the land, whither thou goest in to possess it, is not as the land of Egypt, from whence ye came out , where thou sowedst thy seed, and wateredst it with thy foot, as a garden of herbs:
11 But the land, whither ye go to possess it, is a land of hills and valleys, and drinketh water of the rain of heaven:
12 A land which the LORD thy God careth for: the eyes of the LORD thy God are always upon it, from the beginning of the year even unto the end of the year.
Through Christ, God has given all of His true children a possession to take care of. It is called salvation. It is also true that this salvation is based on having faith in His Word, i.e. His "Name". That faith is for us to protect, defend, and possess, and is to be used to understand where the adversary's abode is that defines his agenda. Our adversary has been defeated time after time with the truth found in God's law. The truth is hated.
Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort [you] that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
We also see posts that say the Mystery only came via Paul and that all that was before Paul concerning the Gentiles isn't for Gentiles today. That isn't what the Bible says. The Mystery of salvation unfolded toward the Gentiles before Paul was ever converted. It was Peter who understood the mystery in Acts 10:13-15
13 And there came a voice to him, Rise , Peter; kill , and eat.
14 But Peter said , Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
Acts 11:1-7
1 And the apostles and brethren that were in Judaea heard that the Gentiles had also received the word of God.
2 And when Peter was come up to Jerusalem, they that were of the circumcision contended with him,
3 Saying , Thou wentest in to men uncircumcised , and didst eat with them.
4 But Peter rehearsed the matter from the beginning, and expounded it by order unto them, saying ,
5 I was in the city of Joppa praying: and in a trance I saw a vision, A certain vessel descend , as it had been a great sheet, let down from heaven by four corners; and it came even to me:
6 Upon the which when I had fastened mine eyes, I considered, and saw four footed beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
7 And I heard a voice saying unto me, Arise, Peter; slay and eat.
Acts 11:18 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
As we can see on this thread, the following 2 verses are rejected because some refuse to admit that God's judgment is the same "to the Jew first and also to the Gentile." If they admitted this to be true in its simplicity, they would also have to admit that the definitions of love detailed in the law are still valid for the Gentiles. They would also have to admit that punishments and curses for willful disobedience applied to the Gentiles the same as the Jews/Israel in the Old Testament. They would also have to admit that blessings for willful obedience applied to the Gentiles as well as the Jews/Israel in the Old Testament.
Romans 2:9-10
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
So many today want to claim salvation without any responsibilty of obedience toward God, and then claim obedience by rejecting the instructions given to the Jew first.
13 And there came a voice to him, Rise , Peter; kill , and eat.
14 But Peter said , Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
Acts 11:1-7
1 And the apostles and brethren that were in Judaea heard that the Gentiles had also received the word of God.
2 And when Peter was come up to Jerusalem, they that were of the circumcision contended with him,
3 Saying , Thou wentest in to men uncircumcised , and didst eat with them.
4 But Peter rehearsed the matter from the beginning, and expounded it by order unto them, saying ,
5 I was in the city of Joppa praying: and in a trance I saw a vision, A certain vessel descend , as it had been a great sheet, let down from heaven by four corners; and it came even to me:
6 Upon the which when I had fastened mine eyes, I considered, and saw four footed beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
7 And I heard a voice saying unto me, Arise, Peter; slay and eat.
Acts 11:18 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
As we can see on this thread, the following 2 verses are rejected because some refuse to admit that God's judgment is the same "to the Jew first and also to the Gentile." If they admitted this to be true in its simplicity, they would also have to admit that the definitions of love detailed in the law are still valid for the Gentiles. They would also have to admit that punishments and curses for willful disobedience applied to the Gentiles the same as the Jews/Israel in the Old Testament. They would also have to admit that blessings for willful obedience applied to the Gentiles as well as the Jews/Israel in the Old Testament.
Romans 2:9-10
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
So many today want to claim salvation without any responsibilty of obedience toward God, and then claim obedience by rejecting the instructions given to the Jew first.
just wanted you to know i saw this.
and i thank you for taking the time to thoughtfully answer my question.
i certainly do agree with you that the entire Bible is for Christians...it's a Christian Book!
and i thank you for taking the time to thoughtfully answer my question.
i certainly do agree with you that the entire Bible is for Christians...it's a Christian Book!
Thank you for good conversation. I look forward to more
4. As the sacred synod searches into the mystery of the Church, it remembers the bond that spiritually ties the people of the New Covenant to Abraham's stock.
Thus the Church of Christ acknowledges that, according to God's saving design, the beginnings of her faith and her election are found already among the Patriarchs, Moses and the prophets. She professes that all who believe in Christ-Abraham's sons according to faith (6)-are included in the same Patriarch's call, and likewise that the salvation of the Church is mysteriously foreshadowed by the chosen people's exodus from the land of bondage. The Church, therefore, cannot forget that she received the revelation of the Old Testament through the people with whom God in His inexpressible mercy concluded the Ancient Covenant. Nor can she forget that she draws sustenance from the root of that well-cultivated olive tree onto which have been grafted the wild shoots, the Gentiles.(7) Indeed, the Church believes that by His cross Christ, Our Peace, reconciled Jews and Gentiles. making both one in Himself.(8)
The Church keeps ever in mind the words of the Apostle about his kinsmen: "theirs is the sonship and the glory and the covenants and the law and the worship and the promises; theirs are the fathers and from them is the Christ according to the flesh" (Rom. 9:4-5), the Son of the Virgin Mary. She also recalls that the Apostles, the Church's main-stay and pillars, as well as most of the early disciples who proclaimed Christ's Gospel to the world, sprang from the Jewish people.
As Holy Scripture testifies, Jerusalem did not recognize the time of her visitation,(9) nor did the Jews in large number, accept the Gospel; indeed not a few opposed its spreading.(10) Nevertheless, God holds the Jews most dear for the sake of their Fathers; He does not repent of the gifts He makes or of the calls He issues-such is the witness of the Apostle.(11) In company with the Prophets and the same Apostle, the Church awaits that day, known to God alone, on which all peoples will address the Lord in a single voice and "serve him shoulder to shoulder" (Soph. 3:9).(12)
Since the spiritual patrimony common to Christians and Jews is thus so great, this sacred synod wants to foster and recommend that mutual understanding and respect which is the fruit, above all, of biblical and theological studies as well as of fraternal dialogues.
True, the Jewish authorities and those who followed their lead pressed for the death of Christ;(13) still, what happened in His passion cannot be charged against all the Jews, without distinction, then alive, nor against the Jews of today. Although the Church is the new people of God, the Jews should not be presented as rejected or accursed by God, as if this followed from the Holy Scriptures. All should see to it, then, that in catechetical work or in the preaching of the word of God they do not teach anything that does not conform to the truth of the Gospel and the spirit of Christ.
Furthermore, in her rejection of every persecution against any man, the Church, mindful of the patrimony she shares with the Jews and moved not by political reasons but by the Gospel's spiritual love, decries hatred, persecutions, displays of anti-Semitism, directed against Jews at any time and by anyone.
Besides, as the Church has always held and holds now, Christ underwent His passion and death freely, because of the sins of men and out of infinite love, in order that all may reach salvation. It is, therefore, the burden of the Church's preaching to proclaim the cross of Christ as the sign of God's all-embracing love and as the fountain from which every grace flows.
6. Cf. Gal. 3:7
7. Cf. Rom. 11:17-24
8. Cf. Eph. 2:14-16
9. Cf. Lk. 19:44
10. Cf. Rom. 11:28
11. Cf. Rom. 11:28-29
12. Cf. Is. 66:23; Ps. 65:4; Rom. 11:11-32
NOSTRA AETATE
Thus the Church of Christ acknowledges that, according to God's saving design, the beginnings of her faith and her election are found already among the Patriarchs, Moses and the prophets. She professes that all who believe in Christ-Abraham's sons according to faith (6)-are included in the same Patriarch's call, and likewise that the salvation of the Church is mysteriously foreshadowed by the chosen people's exodus from the land of bondage. The Church, therefore, cannot forget that she received the revelation of the Old Testament through the people with whom God in His inexpressible mercy concluded the Ancient Covenant. Nor can she forget that she draws sustenance from the root of that well-cultivated olive tree onto which have been grafted the wild shoots, the Gentiles.(7) Indeed, the Church believes that by His cross Christ, Our Peace, reconciled Jews and Gentiles. making both one in Himself.(8)
The Church keeps ever in mind the words of the Apostle about his kinsmen: "theirs is the sonship and the glory and the covenants and the law and the worship and the promises; theirs are the fathers and from them is the Christ according to the flesh" (Rom. 9:4-5), the Son of the Virgin Mary. She also recalls that the Apostles, the Church's main-stay and pillars, as well as most of the early disciples who proclaimed Christ's Gospel to the world, sprang from the Jewish people.
As Holy Scripture testifies, Jerusalem did not recognize the time of her visitation,(9) nor did the Jews in large number, accept the Gospel; indeed not a few opposed its spreading.(10) Nevertheless, God holds the Jews most dear for the sake of their Fathers; He does not repent of the gifts He makes or of the calls He issues-such is the witness of the Apostle.(11) In company with the Prophets and the same Apostle, the Church awaits that day, known to God alone, on which all peoples will address the Lord in a single voice and "serve him shoulder to shoulder" (Soph. 3:9).(12)
Since the spiritual patrimony common to Christians and Jews is thus so great, this sacred synod wants to foster and recommend that mutual understanding and respect which is the fruit, above all, of biblical and theological studies as well as of fraternal dialogues.
True, the Jewish authorities and those who followed their lead pressed for the death of Christ;(13) still, what happened in His passion cannot be charged against all the Jews, without distinction, then alive, nor against the Jews of today. Although the Church is the new people of God, the Jews should not be presented as rejected or accursed by God, as if this followed from the Holy Scriptures. All should see to it, then, that in catechetical work or in the preaching of the word of God they do not teach anything that does not conform to the truth of the Gospel and the spirit of Christ.
Furthermore, in her rejection of every persecution against any man, the Church, mindful of the patrimony she shares with the Jews and moved not by political reasons but by the Gospel's spiritual love, decries hatred, persecutions, displays of anti-Semitism, directed against Jews at any time and by anyone.
Besides, as the Church has always held and holds now, Christ underwent His passion and death freely, because of the sins of men and out of infinite love, in order that all may reach salvation. It is, therefore, the burden of the Church's preaching to proclaim the cross of Christ as the sign of God's all-embracing love and as the fountain from which every grace flows.
6. Cf. Gal. 3:7
7. Cf. Rom. 11:17-24
8. Cf. Eph. 2:14-16
9. Cf. Lk. 19:44
10. Cf. Rom. 11:28
11. Cf. Rom. 11:28-29
12. Cf. Is. 66:23; Ps. 65:4; Rom. 11:11-32
NOSTRA AETATE
The Mystery is Christ's blood for salvation. The OT didn't give it the name Christ, the OT still used Christ's blood for salvation. It wasn't the blood itself as it explains in Isaiah about giving blood like blood given to idols, it was using blood for forgiveness and repentance. In the OT there is scripture after scripture about including the stranger among you. Those were the gentiles. Don't make me cut and paste all these many scriptures, use a search to find them. God meant salvation for all from the day of creation on.
Scripture doesn't tell us, but other histories do, that when the Hebrews left Egypt, it wasn't Jews only. There was much inter marriage and friends of Jews who joined them. These people were assimilated into the Hebrew race. Scripture tells of people being assimilating over and over, with Ruth the prime example.
Scripture doesn't tell us, but other histories do, that when the Hebrews left Egypt, it wasn't Jews only. There was much inter marriage and friends of Jews who joined them. These people were assimilated into the Hebrew race. Scripture tells of people being assimilating over and over, with Ruth the prime example.