Yes I wrote this in early hours of morning, thats my excuse, but the point still stands, the statement from ELECT was ridiculous.
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Yes I wrote this in early hours of morning, thats my excuse, but the point still stands, the statement from ELECT was ridiculous.
Outside of time is a...um...interesting way to put it. It was there before "our" story begins. But God created everything that is. For some reason it preceded Genesis' account of Creation.
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didymos
Guest
Evil Tree - I think I found it......
That's not evil... THIS is evil...
Mu hahahahaaaa!
As is the case in many stories throughout the Bible, imo, the trees of the Garden of Eden were real, but are also symbolic. And like many/most stories in the Bible, the symbolism is more relevant than the reality. That does not make them any less real. And if there are any trees that are 5775-6214 years old, someone would have probably noticed (unless, of course, God didn't want us to find them).
Jesus was the plan from the beginning...so yes, Adam was intended to fail. Why would we need a Savior if we were sin free?
I have heard people say that God's OT plan failed and that is why He had to come up with a new plan, but that is just as ridiculous as saying that God's plan in the Garden failed. Jesus Christ was always the plan!
Jesus is the Tree of Life.
Ecclesiastes 1:18
Because in much wisdom there is much grief, and increasing knowledge results in increasing pain.
I have often wondered about the tree of knowledge of good and evil. It seems reasonable to relate the Bible to knowledge of Good and Evil, but I do believe that we should eat of this "tree", if you will. So, if that be the case, it would seem that the Original Command would not apply. But I don't know if that is what is meant by Knowledge of Good and Evil. It seems that Knowledge of Good would be good, but can the two be separated. If no one had ever eaten from the tree of knowledge, then would it be wrong to murder, or would the thought have never crossed anyone's mind. If we don't know evil, then I suppose that nothing evil would enter our minds. But as it is, I think we are born with some evil in us, though I believe that most of it is taught by those that are around us throughout our childhood and even into adulthood.
John 5:39-40
[SUP]39 [/SUP]You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; [SUP]40 [/SUP]and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.
Jesus was the plan from the beginning...so yes, Adam was intended to fail. Why would we need a Savior if we were sin free?
I have heard people say that God's OT plan failed and that is why He had to come up with a new plan, but that is just as ridiculous as saying that God's plan in the Garden failed. Jesus Christ was always the plan!
Jesus is the Tree of Life.
Ecclesiastes 1:18
Because in much wisdom there is much grief, and increasing knowledge results in increasing pain.
I have often wondered about the tree of knowledge of good and evil. It seems reasonable to relate the Bible to knowledge of Good and Evil, but I do believe that we should eat of this "tree", if you will. So, if that be the case, it would seem that the Original Command would not apply. But I don't know if that is what is meant by Knowledge of Good and Evil. It seems that Knowledge of Good would be good, but can the two be separated. If no one had ever eaten from the tree of knowledge, then would it be wrong to murder, or would the thought have never crossed anyone's mind. If we don't know evil, then I suppose that nothing evil would enter our minds. But as it is, I think we are born with some evil in us, though I believe that most of it is taught by those that are around us throughout our childhood and even into adulthood.
John 5:39-40
[SUP]39 [/SUP]You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; [SUP]40 [/SUP]and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.
Well, it seems that it was the knowledge of evil and rebellion......the deeper question is why would God put that particular tree in the garden and then allow the serpent to tempt Eve.....Like I said above....it seems this grand experiment was meant to happen so as to allow every spirit in God's kingdom the chance to choose between the Kingdom of God and or the fallen kingdom of the serpent....to know seems to indicate to have a knowledge of.....If every spirit is given by God and it is...and returns unto God who gave it...then it stands to reason that our spirit was in existence in God's kingdom..if that is true then in order to have a choice we had to have a knowledge of evil in order to make a choice....Just thinking outside of the box that the bible is so often crammed into......!
Isaiah 66
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
16 For by fire and by his sword will the Lord plead with all flesh: and the slain of the Lord shall be many.
17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the Lord.
Look at threads on Muslims or Mormons. They are eating of it there among others.
Elect said:
Well, JL you just taught me something. Like Elect I thought there were two forbidden trees, but I double checked this because of your post and you appear to be correct. Adam and Eve were permitted to eat from any tree in the garden with the exception of the Tree of Knowledge. I wonder why knowledge would be forbidden?
The fruit of the Tree of Life conveyed immortality upon those who partook of it. Why was God content to allow Adam and Eve immortality, but not immortality in conjunction with knowledge? He drove them from the garden lest they next reach for that other fruit and become immortal. What's going on? What is so dangerous about immortality when it is tied to knowledge, and why is immortality in the absence of knowledge safe in the eyes of God?
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ELECT
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my friend you are wrong please explain if Adam and Eve had eternal life before they sin ?
Genesis 3:22
And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
If they had eternal life that meant that they ate out of the tree of knowledge and became sinful and would have been in a sinful state living forever
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Delivery
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All of the vegetation that covered the earth was destroyed by the flood of Noah. Up until the flood of Noah the garden of Eden still existed, as well as all the plants and trees that the Lord planted there but no one was allowed to go in.
3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
3:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
3:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
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ELECT
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Who made evil? Was it not God who made all things? So for all who believe to know what "good and evil" is, they ARE EATING FROM THE TREE OF KNOWLEDGE! Even those who would condemn behind verses in scripture.
This is why the knowledge of life was put away from our minds. We have people on this VERY site saying things like "Islam is evil" or Mormons are evil" or "homosexuals will burn" etc. they profess to know what is good or evil and continue to reap the curse of death! But when I state that we can NOW end all hunger, homelessness, poverty, sickness and equality, it falls on death ears.
I know people, we were all taught that death is natural, but let's not forget the truth! IT IS A CURSE! So I dare not to eat from that tree any longer. I chose to eat from the tree of life!
And the ONLY way we will enter into life as a PEOPLE is by putting away our differences and to stop putting paper, shiny rocks, affiliations and "races" above the living breathing men women and children attached to them.
Is it right or wrong that any should be homeless or starving in THIS day and age!? Why is this so? MONEY!? Well I DARE anyone who even takes the time to read to post one verse stating we have to use it. I'd even go so far as to say find one "law" in America that states we HAVE to use or abide by any obligation to use paper to trade OUR labor!
I'm just tired, for any would be reader. I don't want to play monopoly anymore. They can have their game pieces back unless one person can show me that God's law states this is valid.
This is why the knowledge of life was put away from our minds. We have people on this VERY site saying things like "Islam is evil" or Mormons are evil" or "homosexuals will burn" etc. they profess to know what is good or evil and continue to reap the curse of death! But when I state that we can NOW end all hunger, homelessness, poverty, sickness and equality, it falls on death ears.
I know people, we were all taught that death is natural, but let's not forget the truth! IT IS A CURSE! So I dare not to eat from that tree any longer. I chose to eat from the tree of life!
And the ONLY way we will enter into life as a PEOPLE is by putting away our differences and to stop putting paper, shiny rocks, affiliations and "races" above the living breathing men women and children attached to them.
Is it right or wrong that any should be homeless or starving in THIS day and age!? Why is this so? MONEY!? Well I DARE anyone who even takes the time to read to post one verse stating we have to use it. I'd even go so far as to say find one "law" in America that states we HAVE to use or abide by any obligation to use paper to trade OUR labor!
I'm just tired, for any would be reader. I don't want to play monopoly anymore. They can have their game pieces back unless one person can show me that God's law states this is valid.
Three doors closed before you. One has a hungry tiger behind it. another has an archer ready to let an arrow fly into your heart. Another has vast treasure and power to rule a kingdom. There is an option of not choosing at all. Just walk away. God told Adam not eat of that tree. Eve should have walked away, but took the first bite. Many of us are presented a deal by Satan more frequently than suspected. Instead of contemplating his list of choices, submit to God, resist the Devil, and he will flee from you. Another successful day! The Devil is still using the same MO, conning us to make some religious sounding choice.
If the total human population was 2, and you take a sample of 2, 100% sampling results. Conclusions from that will have a high probability of predictability concerning behavior of human #3, 4, and on. God doesn't exercise total sovereighnty over people. We are the ones to dominate the creation, make choices, while God is certainly aware of the possible choices. Free will is in full play with the people, but that sampling gives him wisdom to predict outcomes based on men's disposition and previous acts. His wisdom allows God to reconcile, wipe out bad acts upon repentance, casting all memory of them very far apart. Since God can purge His memory, that guarantees the reality of free will choices and consequences the people are stuck with.
In antiquity the Mother Goddess, I have heard, was called the Tree of Life. She is usually portrayed as nude from the wait up and as a tree trunk from the waist down and she was worshipped -- it seems -- throughout Israel until the time of the conquest and the destruction of the temple in 597 BC. She has different names among different cultures, but in Israel she was usually called Asherah. There are inscriptions in Israel to Yahweh and his Asherah.
This worship of trees is common in antiquity and, as William Devers points out, the folk practice practice has not entirely died out. The symbolism of Jesus as the Tree of Life might make sense to a few Christians, but I think you need to look at the bigger picture from antiquity and archeology.
I appreciate the history lesson; and I am aware of the Asherah (It's mentioned in the Bible), but I am not concerned what history or archeology have to say about the "Tree of Life". Jesus is The Way, The Truth, and the Life.
Although, Proverbs provides us this scripture, which you might appreciate (but it is in no way referring to Asherah)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]How blessed is the man who finds wisdom
And the man who gains understanding.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For her profit is better than the profit of silver
And her gain better than fine gold.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]She is more precious than jewels;
And nothing you desire compares with her.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Long life is in her right hand;
In her left hand are riches and honor.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Her ways are pleasant ways
And all her paths are peace.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]She is a tree of life to those who take hold of her,
And happy are all who hold her fast.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]The Lord by wisdom founded the earth,
By understanding He established the heavens.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]By His knowledge the deeps were broken up
And the skies drip with dew.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]My son, let them not vanish from your sight;
Keep sound wisdom and discretion,
[SUP]22 [/SUP]So they will be life to your soul
And adornment to your neck.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Then you will walk in your way securely
And your foot will not stumble.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]When you lie down, you will not be afraid;
When you lie down, your sleep will be sweet.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Do not be afraid of sudden fear
Nor of the onslaught of the wicked when it comes;
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For the Lord will be your confidence
And will keep your foot from being caught.
Two of the rivers exist: the Tigress and the Euphrates. I don't believe the other two have been identified.
You can locate it on an atlas.
In Canaanite mythology the home of the gods is at the source of the four rivers. In the creation account God places Adam and Eve at the source. Is this an attempt by the writer of Genesis to supplant the Canaanite pantheon?
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ELECT
Guest
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ELECT
Guest
You cannot locate it what man think is the head of the river is not can they know the watertable every flow beneath the earth ?
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ELECT
Guest
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ELECT
Guest
You asked where the source of the Tigress and Euphrates was located. Wikipedia says it is the Tarsus Mountains. I checked an atlas. The encyclopedia is correct.
I was only pointing out that Eden must be located in the mountains and that this was, coincidentally, the location of the home of the gods as well.