What does Matthew 5:28-30 mean If we are truly saved by faith?

[Radius]

Matthew 5:28-30:

Adultery
…28but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29"If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30"If your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to go into hell.



Let me first say that I am a firm believer in OSAS and it is by faith that you saved. But no matter how many times I read this is always concerns me in the back of my mind. When I read this it makes it sound like you can lose or forfeit your salvation.

Can anyone explain this to me?

 

[kennethcadwell]

This is talking about purging all willful sin from you.
Until your full repentance is complete to where your willful sins you walk in are turned from and stopped then you are not saved yet. You are still in spiritual death until those sins are purged, and kept from controlling you again.
This goes also along with what the Lord said also in the first verse (28), your lust when you look on another and have sexual thoughts and feelings about them. You must deal with that lust, and allow the Holy Spirit to help you control your feelings so that it can not become full grown in you again.

Sin is always a battle we face while we are in the flesh, it wars with our spiritual mindset we walk in as Paul showed us in Romans 7. Then in Hebrews 3 and 6 we see that even we who become partakers in Christ, and receive the Holy Spirit can fall back to willful sin.

Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.




Hebrews 3:12-14
Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.


I don't take this literally that you are to actually cut off, or pluck out parts of your body. To me it is addressing how serious even one willful unrepented sin is, because all it takes is one to be cast into the lake of fire. We must personally deal with our own sins, before we can truly help others with theirs.

 

[Radius]

ummmm....ok. So you are eternally damned and eternally tormented if you believe that Jesus died for you, asked to be saved, but from time to time might commit adultery with your eyes or think impure thoughts?

I'll continue to try my hardest, but I might be screwed.

 

[kennethcadwell]

ummmm....ok. So you are eternally damned and eternally tormented if you believe that Jesus died for you, asked to be saved, but from time to time might commit adultery with your eyes or think impure thoughts?

I'll continue to try my hardest, but I might be screwed.

No, I did not say that.
This is why the meat of the word is still hard for some to take in, and why we are to help others.
There is a difference between a willful sin that we live in, and a sin done out of a backslide, screwed up here or there.

The willful sin the bible speaks of that we can not walk in, is one that is done with no repentance and not asked forgiveness of. Only our past and present sins are forgiven at time of repentance and accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. We know this from scripture, because in 1 Timothy 5:22 and 1 John it warns us not to share in others sins and that when a future sin is committed we have to ask forgiveness of it.
You are not damned if you believe in Jesus as your Lord and Savior, and that He died on the cross for us to have forgiveness of sins and reconciled to God. But that forgiveness is not automatic unless we repent and ask forgiveness of them. Plus the other thing that we must come to know is what, believe in Him, means. Jesus tells us this in Luke 6;


Luke 6:46-49


And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock. But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.

 

[BenFTW]

Matthew 5:28-30:

Adultery
…28but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29"If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30"If your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to go into hell.



Let me first say that I am a firm believer in OSAS and it is by faith that you saved. But no matter how many times I read this is always concerns me in the back of my mind. When I read this it makes it sound like you can lose or forfeit your salvation.

Can anyone explain this to me?

Worry no more! What you need to realize is that Jesus was raising, or rather, bring to light the full standard of the Law. This isn't a verse directed to you, a person under the grace of God. This is directed to the self-righteous, not you who has received imputed righteousness from Jesus Christ. You see, some people want to say that Jesus was "just kidding." The thing is... he wasn't. He was being dead serious, literally because if they died while failing to keep that Law there were serious consequences.

Remember that the Law is works-based, and not of faith. 613 laws to be exact. If you fail in one count you fail in all of it. So Jesus was being absolutely clear about perfection. If your eyes make you sin, rip 'em out! If your right hand makes you sin, chop it off! For us, however, when we sin the blood of Christ cleanses us. It is equivalent to the story of a boy finding a shiny rock and he hides it in the mud to return to it the next day. However, each day that he returned to see the rock he had to clean it and then put it back in the mud. There was a water fall nearby and the boy had an idea. If he has it sit in a wedge between some rocks in the waterfall it will stay clean and always being washed. In the same way, we are washed by the blood of Christ continually.

 

[LoganJ119]

We all sin daily, and we all struggle with lust. Its true that God says even looking at someone (who is not your spouse) with lust is considered adultery in His eyes. All we need to do is accept Christ and repent and ask for forgiveness when we sin. God doesn't expect us to be perfect, He knows we all have sin natures and its impossible for us to be perfect, but He does expect us to repent and make our best efforts to turn from sin. The idea is that if something is making you stumble its better to remove it from your life rather than risk it leading you astray. For example, if you have a friend who is a bad influence, it might be a good idea to end that relationship. If the computer or tv is causing you to sin, it might be good to get rid of them.
Can you "loose" your salvation because of a sin? No, God is faithful to forgive us and His mercies are new every morning. But we can choose to walk away from God, and we can choose to reject salvation. If something in your life is pulling you down so much that it might cause you to walk away from God, get rid of it!

 

[Radius]

thank you for your insights, I think it would be a good idea if more people chimed in, others more experiences with the Scriptures than I of course.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Worry no more! What you need to realize is that Jesus was raising, or rather, bring to light the full standard of the Law. This isn't a verse directed to you, a person under the grace of God. This is directed to the self-righteous, not you who has received imputed righteousness from Jesus Christ. You see, some people want to say that Jesus was "just kidding." The thing is... he wasn't. He was being dead serious, literally because if they died while failing to keep that Law there were serious consequences.

Remember that the Law is works-based, and not of faith. 613 laws to be exact. If you fail in one count you fail in all of it. So Jesus was being absolutely clear about perfection. If your eyes make you sin, rip 'em out! If your right hand makes you sin, chop it off! For us, however, when we sin the blood of Christ cleanses us. It is equivalent to the story of a boy finding a shiny rock and he hides it in the mud to return to it the next day. However, each day that he returned to see the rock he had to clean it and then put it back in the mud. There was a water fall nearby and the boy had an idea. If he has it sit in a wedge between some rocks in the waterfall it will stay clean and always being washed. In the same way, we are washed by the blood of Christ continually.

Brother, I understand where you come from but I can not go by that style of teaching that only part of what Jesus said and taught was for these people and only other parts are for us.
The reason for this is because in the great commission of Matthew 28, Jesus told His apostles when they were sent out to teach that we are to obey all that He said, not only part.

Matthew 28:16-20


The Great Commission


16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

 

[Radius]

Brother, I understand where you come from but I can not go by that style of teaching that only part of what Jesus said and taught was for these people and only other parts are for us.
The reason for this is because in the great commission of Matthew 28, Jesus told His apostles when they were sent out to teach that we are to obey all that He said, not only part.

Matthew 28:16-20


The Great Commission


16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Kenneth, would I be wrong to assume that the same "hell" Jesus was referring to was the same as the one mentioned a few verses ago in Matthew 5:22? Do all saved people go to hell for calling another person "you fool!"? If so I might as well fold the tent up right now, because I don't say it out loud often, but I think it very often while reading the news online.

 

[veryelect]

This is just my opinion:

If someone is breaking the Law and maybe even planting false doctrine, then obviously they don't really have faith! They are tricking themselves. Faith without works is dead! If a person has faith, they are going to Know that the Bible is Real, that everything in it is real and that JESUS IS REAL! Now if they have faith and really believe all of this, are they going to go lusting around and breaking laws? Are they going to bring down the Truthfulness of a church by doing false works (right hand offends)?

Not if they have True faith! They sure wouldn't be very smart if they did!

 

[kennethcadwell]

Kenneth, would I be wrong to assume that the same "hell" Jesus was referring to was the same as the one mentioned a few verses ago in Matthew 5:22? Do all saved people go to hell for calling another person "you fool!"? If so I might as well fold the tent up right now, because I don't say it out loud often, but I think it very often while reading the news online.

The thing is though Radius is that you can pray for forgiveness of that sin, and we having a just Lord will forgive you of that sin. ( 1 John ) Then you also can pray to God in the name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ to help you through the Holy Spirit to control your thoughts and feelings. As long as you are making the effort to change your life to live in a godly manner, then He will see your heart and know it is just.

We member the bible through our Lord's word says we are to live in love, for Him, our neighbors, and even our enemies.
By living and walking in love is how we become perfected in God's eyes under our Lord.

Here is another passage in the bible that goes hand and hand with what we have been discussing;


[h=1]Romans 6:11-16[/h]11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

 

[Flamingspirit]

This is what the verse means....... Is it natural for a man to be sexually attracted to what he sees as a very sexy woman???? Of course it is!!! But here on earth, we judge people by the strictest of images to live by. Christ was making that point in how we view what is morally acceptable in law between us. Take "adultery." We know how it's viewed in this world by the outward appearance. But Christ was making a point to show that if you use the law in this sense, then even LOOKING at a sexy, sweet, tender woman with thoughts of sleeping with her is ALSO adultery as you have committed it in your heart or within your inner selves.

It is the same with how we view murder. How many people would accept a "converted" Charles Manson in their churches? Not by how we view "murder." But if you EVEN hate Charles, YOU ARE A MURDERER AS WELL!

If your eye or hand causes you to stumble, cut it off as it is better to enter into the kingdom without one of your parts than for the whole body to go to hell!

Mankind IS that body composed of many members. If half the planet is tired of what they are seeing and decides to live heavenly lives on earth, should they be concerned with the half that didn't? No! Let them do them! If they looking for a ticket to hell/grave them let them have at it. But us over here are learning to live forever!

Not in thinking that their "murderers" or "adulterers" , however.


Matthew 12

31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.


32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.


33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.

If the tree is not made such, it is cast in the fire in which we are all headed to the grave! Why? Because we have not declared Mankind as such yet. How does one do that, knowing you cannot change what someone else does? By changing YOUR mind in renewal of the truth!

 

[notuptome]

Jesus taught that the purpose of the law was to show man that he is a sinner. Many men thought they were good because they never actually committed adultery with a woman but Jesus revealed the true wickedness in the heart of man because men are given to looking at women and imagining in their minds that they could enjoy the pleasure of sin with them.

Grace allows for sinful men and women to go to God first to be saved then to go for restoration of the relationship that sin disturbs.

Think of it like this: you have a lawn surrounding your house. You do your duty to keep the lawn nice. You mow and fertilize the lawn including the addition of weed killer. Yet every time you inspect the lawn you find new weeds have grown up. This is of course because the soil produces weeds from the seeds already in it. So it is with the flesh. We come to Christ and receive salvation and we strive to live for our Savior. Yet every day we find sin in our life that we must go back to Christ to ask for forgiveness. It is not that we are lost just that we need to keep ourselves clean and weed free to truly render the service to our Savior that we ought. In technical terms it's called sanctification which follows salvation. Sanctification is only completed when we are glorified together with Christ when we shed this vile body of flesh and receive our bodies made like His glorified body.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[john832]

Worry no more! What you need to realize is that Jesus was raising, or rather, bring to light the full standard of the Law. This isn't a verse directed to you, a person under the grace of God. This is directed to the self-righteous, not you who has received imputed righteousness from Jesus Christ. You see, some people want to say that Jesus was "just kidding." The thing is... he wasn't. He was being dead serious, literally because if they died while failing to keep that Law there were serious consequences.

Remember that the Law is works-based, and not of faith. 613 laws to be exact. If you fail in one count you fail in all of it. So Jesus was being absolutely clear about perfection. If your eyes make you sin, rip 'em out! If your right hand makes you sin, chop it off! For us, however, when we sin the blood of Christ cleanses us. It is equivalent to the story of a boy finding a shiny rock and he hides it in the mud to return to it the next day. However, each day that he returned to see the rock he had to clean it and then put it back in the mud. There was a water fall nearby and the boy had an idea. If he has it sit in a wedge between some rocks in the waterfall it will stay clean and always being washed. In the same way, we are washed by the blood of Christ continually.

??????

Amazing, what you are saying is that someone who is under grace need not worry about keeping the seventh Commandment?

So, whoring around is neither here nor there with God?

 

[Flamingspirit]

??????

Amazing, what you are saying is that someone who is under grace need not worry about keeping the seventh Commandment?

So, whoring around is neither here nor there with God?

What is "whoring around" to you?

 

[SeaBass]

Matthew 5:28-30:

Adultery
…28but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29"If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30"If your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to go into hell.



Let me first say that I am a firm believer in OSAS and it is by faith that you saved. But no matter how many times I read this is always concerns me in the back of my mind. When I read this it makes it sound like you can lose or forfeit your salvation.

Can anyone explain this to me?

It does mean one can fall from faith by lusting/adultery and be thrown into hell.

1 Jn 2:16 "For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world." Lusting is not of God.

James 1:14,15 "But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death." Lusting brings forth spiritual death.

Gal 5:16 "This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh." One cannot BOTH walk in the spirit and lust after the flesh at the same time, one does one or the other but not both.

 

[john832]

What is "whoring around" to you?

ANY violation of the seventh Commandment.

 

[SeaBass]

We all sin daily, and we all struggle with lust. Its true that God says even looking at someone (who is not your spouse) with lust is considered adultery in His eyes. All we need to do is accept Christ and repent and ask for forgiveness when we sin. God doesn't expect us to be perfect, He knows we all have sin natures and its impossible for us to be perfect, but He does expect us to repent and make our best efforts to turn from sin. The idea is that if something is making you stumble its better to remove it from your life rather than risk it leading you astray. For example, if you have a friend who is a bad influence, it might be a good idea to end that relationship. If the computer or tv is causing you to sin, it might be good to get rid of them.
Can you "loose" your salvation because of a sin? No, God is faithful to forgive us and His mercies are new every morning. But we can choose to walk away from God, and we can choose to reject salvation. If something in your life is pulling you down so much that it might cause you to walk away from God, get rid of it!

You post " All we need to do is accept Christ and repent and ask for forgiveness when we sin."

What if the Christian does not repent and ask forgiveness but keeps on lusting?

 

[tourist]

Jesus taught that the purpose of the law was to show man that he is a sinner. Many men thought they were good because they never actually committed adultery with a woman but Jesus revealed the true wickedness in the heart of man because men are given to looking at women and imagining in their minds that they could enjoy the pleasure of sin with them.

Grace allows for sinful men and women to go to God first to be saved then to go for restoration of the relationship that sin disturbs.

Think of it like this: you have a lawn surrounding your house. You do your duty to keep the lawn nice. You mow and fertilize the lawn including the addition of weed killer. Yet every time you inspect the lawn you find new weeds have grown up. This is of course because the soil produces weeds from the seeds already in it. So it is with the flesh. We come to Christ and receive salvation and we strive to live for our Savior. Yet every day we find sin in our life that we must go back to Christ to ask for forgiveness. It is not that we are lost just that we need to keep ourselves clean and weed free to truly render the service to our Savior that we ought. In technical terms it's called sanctification which follows salvation. Sanctification is only completed when we are glorified together with Christ when we shed this vile body of flesh and receive our bodies made like His glorified body.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

This is an outstanding post.

 

[JesusIsAll]

Also, the Scribes and Pharisees were, of course, those who deigned themselves grand keepers of the law and self righteous. Our Lord Jesus was pointing out that sin is not simply the act, the violation of the commandment against adultery, but that damning sin is something that lives in and comes from the heart, that we need to have renewed hearts, which is part of being born again of the Spirit.

Likewise, Christ pointed out that hateful, unrighteous anger from the heart will lead to hell fire, and one need not actually commit murder, the Scribes and Pharisees murderers in their hearts,

Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

1 John 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

As to the self mutilation comments, Jesus was not telling us to literally self mutilate, do violence to ourselves, rather using strong examples to point out the dire seriousness of the sin problem and our need for a solution.