100 Percent Proof that there is No Rapture

veryelect · Dec 11, 2014

This is a sidetrack from the main subject. Which ever way you look at it, JESUS, YAHAVEH'S SAVIOR, THE ANOINTED ONE, warned that many would come in HIS NAME!

Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

MaranathaSoonQuick · Dec 11, 2014

right, we already see there are many anti-christs

eternally-gratefull · Dec 11, 2014

veryelect said:

news flash.

The word rapture comes from the latin word raptus which means to be "caught up"

1 Thessalonians 4:17 [Full Chapter]
Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

so as we can see, the term is most definitely in scripture. People need to study more before they make such claims, especially when you put 100 % proof. which was debunked in just a few seconds.

Jason0047 · Dec 11, 2014

veryelect said:

The church men of Thessalonica were deceived somehow into thinking the Day of the Lord had already occured. The Day of the Lord (i.e. KJV says Day of Christ) was not a good thing but a bad thing. For this is why they were so shaken in mind and troubled (verse 2) for Paul to write to them. In other words, this was not an every day ordinary teaching by Paul but it was a letter to correct them in thinking the wrong thing.

For they were thinking they might have missed out on the Rapture and were now in the Day of the Lord. The Day of the Lord (Day of Christ) is bad. For Amos 5:20 says the "Day of the Lord" is a day of darkness. Amose 5:18 says woe unto them that desire the "Day of the Lord." Paul assures them that the Rapture has not happened yet at the time of the writing of his letter to them because he says in verse 1 about the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ and their gathering together unto him (Which is the Rapture event) and then he says be not troubled in mind concerning our gathering unto him.... because.... if you did miss out on the Rapture or the gathering together unto him.... Then.... you would see the falling away of the church and the Anti-Christ appear in the Temple showing himself that he is God.

The passsage would read like this:

2 Thessalonians 2:1-17
"Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him [Our Lord's coming to gather us in the Pre-Trib Rapture], That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us [that you missed this gathering and whereby you now concern yourself], as that the day of Christ [The Day of the Lord] is at hand [present].Let no man deceive you by any means: [You are not in the Day of the Lord] for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation [Glorification] through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ [Our marriage to Christ when we are gathered together unto him].Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle. Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace, Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.

Jason0047 · Dec 11, 2014

Jason0047 said:

"Good Hope"

Paul had written to Titus and said this to him in his letter...

• Titus 2:13

Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

To put it to you another way, Paul believed in looking for the imminent return of His Savior Jesus Christ. If Paul believed he would have had to go thru the tribulation, he would not have said this.

dcontroversal · Dec 11, 2014

Hizikyah said:

You wont find two (raptures) as there is but ONE Parousia of Jesus and resurrection of the righteous as found in Revelation 20

One coming of Jesus and gathering of the saints...

1. Man of sin must be revealed 1st<---Where is he, who is he and someone who believes Jesus can come at any moment NAME HIM

2. APO-HYSTAMIE (apostasy) of humanity

3. LAST trump

4. WHEN we see the signs of MATTHEW 24, LUKE 21, MARK 13 LOOK up

5. Disciples in ACTS, LOST religious, every tribe, every tongue, all kindreds told they WILL SEE JESUS COME IN LIKE MANNER AS HE LEFT<---NO SUCH thing as a some invisible return of JESUS where we disappear en masse and everybody wonders where we went

6. 1 resurrection of the SAVED...REVELATION 20...NO SPLIT rapture of the saved...those who are killed during the TRIBULATION PERIOD LIVE and REIGN WITH CHRIST

7. NO rapture of the faithful and the not so faithful get left behind the word KEEP in REVELATION 3 means to guard from loss, protect, keep from HARM

8. Tribulation and WRATH are two different words with two different applications

9. LAST TRUMP is the LAST trump is the LAST TRUMP

10. SAINTS=SAVED.....BEAST/LITTLE HORN makes war against the saints, kills the saints, imprisons the SAINTS and they are given into his hand for 3.5 years, 42 months or 1260 days<---see point 1 above

I can go on all day like this....the imminent return FARCE is heretical, contrary to the truth and did not come on line until the early 1800's and for those who have swallowed it hook, line and sinker YOU will be in for a surprise when the crap begins to hit the fan!

Jason0047 · Dec 11, 2014

veryelect said:

I agree it is a pleasure in debating in a loving and civil way concerning God's Holy Word, my friend.

Anyways, getting down to business:

Well, I read a little of the link. First, it's view on 1 Thessalonians 4 stretches the meaning way beyond what the text actually says plainly. Second, I already refuted the point with Scripture within this thread about the Trump of God being the Last Trump in Revelation in a previous post. One is a Trumpet Call to call His people home. "A Trumpet of Blessing." The other is a "Trumpet Call of Judgment." Not the same trumpets. Trumpet Calls of Blessing is not the same as Trumpet Calls of Judgment. There is a big difference between the two.

Third, the Last Trump is in the time of Wrath as decribed in Revelation. Paul tells us that we are not appointed unto Wrath. So we wouldn't even be around during that time.

Fourth, you also assume that I did not once have a critical eye towards the Pre-Trib Rapture view. That would not be true, my friend. I initially was Pre-Trib when I was saved, but for a short time (apprx. 1 or 2 weeks) I believed in the Pre-Wrath Trib View, then after talking with other believers and re-examing the Scriptures again, I have come to discover that there is a quite bit of Biblical evidence that supports the Pre-Trib Rapture. Evidence that is clear to see for those who want to see it.

In any event, I encourage you to not take my word for it, and ask the Lord to show you (Jeremiah 33:3) and then continue to be a good Berean (Acts 17:11).

May God's love shine upon you greatly today.

With loving kindness to you in Christ,

Sincerely,

~Jason.

--

sveinen · Dec 11, 2014

Jason0047 said:

"honestly, sir, you would lose faith."
it was so opposite of what we're meant for. there's a translation that the destruction was astonishing..

BradC · Dec 11, 2014

Just look at the picture you get when you read this short passage of scripture that Paul gave concerning those who sleep and those who remain alive in Christ.

1 Thes 4:13-18

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

Amplified (v.15) For this we declare to you by the Lord’s [own] word, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord shall in no way precede [into His presence] or have any advantage at all over those who have previously fallen asleep [in Him in death].

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Notice the picture that Paul is making for those in the church at Thessalonia who have a concern as to what will happen to loved ones and friends who have already died and those which remain alive unto the coming of the Lord who are in Christ Jesus. He speaks to them by the word of the Lord (v.15). The picture is that there are two groups of believers, those who have died and those who remain alive. Verse 14 confirms a bases of a resurrection for those who sleep. Those who sleep God will bring with Him and those who remain alive will not have any advantage or precede those who have fallen asleep. Verse 16 the Lord shall descend from heaven and the dead in Christ (those bodies that lay in the grave) shall rise first. Verse 17, then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds of the air to meet the Lord.

The picture I see is that those who were absent from their bodies (which are in the grave) yet present with the Lord in heaven (2 Cor 5:8,9) shall come with Him when He descends from heaven and be joined to their bodies that will first be raised from among the dead and shall be caught up together (bodily) (harpazo - second future, passive, indicative) with those who are alive and had not died in their bodies. This is a future event that takes into consideration both the dead in Christ and those who have remained alive in Christ when the Lord shall come. The location for which this event takes place is in the clouds of the air. So far the picture is clear and the location should also be clear. The clouds of the air is simple. It is a location between heaven, from which the Lord descends, and the earth, from which we shall be raised and caught UP from! The Lord comes down and we go up and meet the Lord in the air, to be with Him forever.

We have dead bodies and living bodies being raised up from the earth and the grave and we have the Lord coming down with those who were present with Him for a meeting in the air. I would suggest that something takes place in the clouds and in the air between the Lord and those who are met together with Him. This meeting does not take place in heaven, nor does it take place on the earth and something happens and takes place at that meeting because flesh and blood can not inherit the kingdom of God, neither can corruption inherit incorruption, which also applies to Enoch and Elijah. Now, we can go to (1 Cor 15) and find out what happens at that meeting with the Lord in the clouds and in the air.

Jason0047 · Dec 11, 2014

Jason0047 said:

Also, if you were to look in the previous chapter, we discover that Paul makes a distinction between the Lord's 2nd Coming (That will bring Judgment upon others) versus the Lord's coming to be glorified with His saints.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-11
"And to you who are troubled rest with us, when [At Christ's 2nd Coming to the Earth:] the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; [But as for us, at Christ's coming so as to Gather His Elect: (See 2 Thessalonians 2:1)] When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day. Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:"

For the gathering of the Elect at Christ's 2nd Coming to the Earth is a Gathering to battle and not a coming so as to be glorified in his saints.

Jason0047 · Dec 11, 2014

sveinen said:

I just said I wouldn't. That if the Antichrist revealed himself today, it would not change anything for me and or any other true Christian who put Jesus first and was rooted in God's Word.

I would be like.... "Oh, okay. This is not the first time I was wrong on Scripture before; So let's deal with the situation and re-examine the Scriptures again."

But you know what?

That scenario is not going to happen.

Because I have the same blessed hope that Paul had.

sveinen · Dec 11, 2014

veryelect said:

please proclaim arch angels well in Christ? well above any enemy

devil old snake.

Jason0047 · Dec 11, 2014

BradC said:

The Dead in Christ Are Taken From Abraham's Bosom By the Rapture:
(Both the Old Testament Saints and Church Age Saints in Abraham's Bosom Are Called to Rise To Meet the Lord in the Air. For in the Rapture: The Dead in Christ Shall Rise First):

• (a) Zechariah 9:11 NIV and (b) 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

(a) For... I will free your prisoners from the waterless pit. (b) And with the trump of God... the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air

What is Abraham's Bosom?

Abraham's bosom (which is also known as Paradise) is described in Luke 16:19-31. It is a real place of comfort within the spirit realm; A temporary paradise where the saint's soul and spiritual body resides consciously to be with the Lord when their physical body dies (Genesis 3:19) (Ecclesiastes 12:7) (Luke 16:22). This paradise is located within the realm of the dead below the Earth (Which is also known as Sheol or Hades) which is separated by a great gulf from the fiery place of punishment known as "Torments" or what is commonly known as "Hell" (Luke 16:26) (Luke 16:23). It will be a place where the saint will be comforted (Luke 16:25). But, why is Abraham's bosom also called Paradise? Well, on the day of Christ's sacrifice, he had told the thief on the cross that: "This day, you shall be with me in Paradise" (Luke 23:43). But yet, Scripture tells us that when Christ died, he was in the heart of the Earth for three days and three nights, though (Matthew 12:40). So this leads us to conclude that during Christ's three days within the grave before His resurrection, He was with the thief in Abraham's bosom which is located in the heart (or the center) of the Earth.

Does Abraham's Bosom Still Exist Within the Church Age Today?

The real life story (or event) of Luke 16:19-31 took place during the time of Moses (Luke 16:29). However, the important question that must be asked is: Does Abraham's Bosom still exist today, though?

Well, yes, I believe according to the plain reading of Scripture that Abraham's bosom still exists today within our present church age. For all true saints who die in Christ right now will go to be with the Lord down in Abraham's bosom and then later they will be taken up into Heaven when the Rapture occurs. For how else will the dead in Christ rise first? See 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17. Do the dead in Christ rise to go to Heaven and then come back down somewhere temporarily to be risen again at the Rapture? Do they rise in Christ twice spiritually? If so, where is the verse that explains this?

In fact, many Christians today who are well versed in studying the Scriptures believe they go straight to Heaven; This is a common misconception because they interpret the ascension of Christ mentioned inEphesians 4:8 as the time of when the saints in Abraham's bosom are being taken to Heaven.

Ephesians 4:8 - "When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive."

In other words, based on this passage, most Christians believe that Christ led those saints who were in captivity in Abraham's bosom captive up into Heaven when Christ ascended. However, is this whatEphesians 4:8 is talking about, though?

No, actually it is actually talking about how when Christ ascended, He bound the enemy or the powers of darkness. How so? Well, our first clue to this fact is to look at the parallel reference of this passage located in Judges chapter five.

Judges 5:12 - "Awake, awake, Deborah: awake, awake, utter a song: arise, Barak, and lead your captives captive, you son of Abinoam."

Now, without boring you with all the details, to make a long story short, if you were to read Judged chapter 5, you would find out that Barak was leading his enemies captive and not his friends. To put it to you another way, the moment a true Christian is born again and then dedicates their life to Christ, they are then no longer Christ's enemy. For those in Abraham's bosom are God's elect or chosen who had put their trust in God to redeem them of their sins (See Luke 16:19-31).

As a matter of fact, Gill's Exposition of the Bible says this...

"He led captivity captive; which is expressive of Christ's conquests and triumph over sin, Satan, the world, death, and the grave; and indeed, every spiritual enemy of his and his people, especially the devil, who leads men captive at his will, and is therefore called captivity, and his principalities and powers, whom Christ has spoiled and triumphed over;"

And 2nd Timothy says this...

2 Timothy 2:26 - "And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will. For when Christ had raised from the dead he put all things including the principalities and powers of darkness under his feet."

Therefore, the word "captivity" is a reference to Satan leading people captive to his will and lets us know the true context or meaning behind Ephesians 4:8.

For when Christ had risen from the dead, He put all things including the principalities and powers of darkness under his feet.

Ephesians 1:20-23 "Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all."

Oh, and just in case someone is thinking I am going lone wolf here, I am also not the only one who holds to the belief that believers before the Pre-Trib Rapture will go to Abraham's Bosom, either. The Lavista Church of Christ holds to this view, as well; And they of course teach sound Biblical doctrine on a wide variety of topics.

http://lavistachurchofchrist.org/LVa...005/05-05a.htm

sveinen · Dec 11, 2014

dcontroversal said:

You wont find two (raptures) as there is but ONE Parousia of Jesus and resurrection of the righteous as found in Revelation 20

One coming of Jesus and gathering of the saints...

1. Man of sin must be revealed 1st<---Where is he, who is he and someone who believes Jesus can come at any moment NAME HIM

2. APO-HYSTAMIE (apostasy) of humanity

3. LAST trump

4. WHEN we see the signs of MATTHEW 24, LUKE 21, MARK 13 LOOK up

5. Disciples in ACTS, LOST religious, every tribe, every tongue, all kindreds told they WILL SEE JESUS COME IN LIKE MANNER AS HE LEFT<---NO SUCH thing as a some invisible return of JESUS where we disappear en masse and everybody wonders where we went

6. 1 resurrection of the SAVED...REVELATION 20...NO SPLIT rapture of the saved...those who are killed during the TRIBULATION PERIOD LIVE and REIGN WITH CHRIST

7. NO rapture of the faithful and the not so faithful get left behind the word KEEP in REVELATION 3 means to guard from loss, protect, keep from HARM

8. Tribulation and WRATH are two different words with two different applications

9. LAST TRUMP is the LAST trump is the LAST TRUMP

10. SAINTS=SAVED.....BEAST/LITTLE HORN makes war against the saints, kills the saints, imprisons the SAINTS and they are given into his hand for 3.5 years, 42 months or 1260 days<---see point 1 above

I can go on all day like this....the imminent return FARCE is heretical, contrary to the truth and did not come on line until the early 1800's and for those who have swallowed it hook, line and sinker YOU will be in for a surprise when the crap begins to hit the fan!

it was revealed. in a "lutheran protestant church house" 8-9 of our calendar years ago.
we don't want it named.
we can't look at evil! you go crazy when you see it. "that i've seen."
scripture tells us to be mindful of heavenly matters.

Jason0047 · Dec 11, 2014

Jason0047 said:

For we know the gathering of the Elect at Christ's 2nd Coming to the Earth is a gathering to battle and it is not a coming so as to be glorified with His saints. How so? Well, this fact is made very clear with Scripture (Please consider the verses below):

The Lord Gathers His Elect For the Upcoming Battle:
(The Call to the Marriage Supper of the Lamb):
(The 2nd Rapture or Translation of the Saints):
(And The End of the Surviving Tribulation Saint's 1,335 Day of Testing):

• Luke 12:36

And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.

Daniel 12:12 ISV and Daniel 12:12 NIV

Blessed is the one who perseveres...and reaches the end of the 1,335 days.

• Revelation 14:16

And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

• Matthew 24:31

And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

• Mark 13:27

And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

• Luke 17:34-37

"I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left."

And they answered and said unto him,

"Where, Lord?"

And he said unto them,

"Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."

• Matthew 24:28

For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

• Revelation 19:17-18 and Revelation 19:14

And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying

"To all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great."

And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

• Jude 1:14

Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

• Isaiah 31:4 NLT

The LORD of Heaven’s Armies will come down

• Isaiah 26:21b NLT

The earth will no longer hide those who have been killed. They will be brought out for all to see.

Jason0047 · Dec 11, 2014

Jason0047 said:

For we know the gathering of the Elect at Christ's 2nd Coming to the Earth is a gathering to battle and it is not a coming so as to be glorified with His saints. How so? Well, this fact is made very clear with Scripture (Please consider the verses below):

The Lord Gathers His Elect For the Upcoming Battle:
(The Call to the Marriage Supper of the Lamb):
(The 2nd Rapture or Translation of the Saints):
(And The End of the Surviving Tribulation Saint's 1,335 Day of Testing):

• Luke 12:36

And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.

Daniel 12:12 ISV and Daniel 12:12 NIV

Blessed is the one who perseveres...and reaches the end of the 1,335 days.

• Revelation 14:16

And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

• Matthew 24:31

And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

• Mark 13:27

And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

• Luke 17:34-37

"I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left."

And they answered and said unto him,

"Where, Lord?"

And he said unto them,

"Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."

• Matthew 24:28

For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

• Revelation 19:17-18 and Revelation 19:14

And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying

"To all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great."

And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

• Jude 1:14

Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

• Isaiah 31:4 NLT

The LORD of Heaven’s Armies will come down

• Isaiah 26:21b NLT

The earth will no longer hide those who have been killed. They will be brought out for all to see.

Now, does this mean that if God's people who are the eagles or the fowl equates with his saints literally eating the flesh of kings and the flesh of captains? No, it does not. It's actually a OT metaphorical expression that was used in Ezekiel 39 about how God's people will conquer their enemies.

In fact, do a study on "Eagles" in Scripture and how that relates to the believer. You will see that Christ is saying that those who are taken during the End Times will be gathered as eagles to eat the flesh of captains (i.e. to destroy or consume their enemies) at Christ's 2nd Coming to the Earth.

In other words, the Gathering of the Elect at Christ's 2nd Coming is not for the glorification of the saints but it is a gathering so as to Battle at Armageddon (With Christ leading the saints into that Battle).

sveinen · Dec 11, 2014

"greetings from the sun"
throw half

Butch5 · Dec 11, 2014

Jason0047 said:

What is another bread crumb or clue that the Pre-Tribulation Rapture is true? Well, when we want to verify a truth within God's Word, we know that the Bible testifies of itself by the fact that it repeats the same message or idea over and over thru out the whole of Scripture.

So one came make the parallel that...

1. The Church is sent out to spread the Gospel (Revelation 1)
2. Some in the Church are warned of His Return & Judgment (Revelation 2-3)
3. Rapture of Faithful Church (Revelation 4)
4. Judgment of Daniel's 70th Week Begins that will bring the End (Revelation 6)

In fact, the same parallel can be made with Noah and the Flood, too.

For there were 3 groups of people facing the Judgment of the Flood:

1. Those that perished in the Global Flood.
2. Those that were preserved thru the time of the Global Flood.
3. Those that were removed prior to the Global Flood.

For Enoch was translated before the Flood, right?
And Noah and his family went thru the Judgment of the Flood but were protected by God, right? Sort of like the 144,000 Jewish Christians who will be protected or sealed by God thru the tribulation.

So a Pre-Trib Rapture proves to be Biblical and true not only in straight forward teaching but by paralleling the beginning and ending stories within the Bible, too.

Where does anything say those who are protected from wrath are taken off of the earth. God hasn't done this in the past, why would you think He would do it this time?

Butch5 · Dec 11, 2014

Jason0047 said:

Jason,

I'm sorry but I don't see any thing here that presents any problem fort those who reject a pre-trib rapture. The wicked servant is not looking for his master because he is being drunken and carousing. I don't think you have anything here to support a pre-trib rapture.

I would also submit that the last trump that Paul speaks of is not the trumpets of Revelation but rather the trumpet that is blown on the day of Atonement in the Jubilee year. God told the Jews they were to work the land for 6 years and in the 7th year they were to let the land rest. They were to do this for 7 cycles, at total of 49 years. The fiftieth year was to be a year of Jubilee which ended the cycle and then it would begin again. The trumpet wasn't blown on the day of atonement except for in the Jubilee year. It was the last trumpet sounded in the cycle.

8 And thou shalt number seven sabbaths of years unto thee, seven times seven years; and the space of the seven sabbaths of years shall be unto thee forty and nine years.
9 Then shalt thou cause the trumpet of the jubile to sound on the tenth day of the seventh month, in the day of atonement shall ye make the trumpet sound throughout all your land. {of the jubile: Heb. loud of sound}
10 And ye shall hallow the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof: it shall be a jubile unto you; and ye shall return every man unto his possession, and ye shall return every man unto his family.
11 A jubile shall that fiftieth year be unto you: ye shall not sow, neither reap that which groweth of itself in it, nor gather the grapes in it of thy vine undressed.
12 For it is the jubile; it shall be holy unto you: ye shall eat the increase thereof out of the field.
13 In the year of this jubile ye shall return every man unto his possession. (Lev 25:8-13 KJV)

Jason0047 · Dec 11, 2014

Dear Butch5:

Sorry, my friend. God has called it upon my heart not to discuss the Bible with at this time currently. So I just not interested in debating Scripture with you. Please do not take offense, but I don't believe it will help you.

Anyways, I say this in love and with the hope that you talk to God some more about what you believe.

Peace be unto you.
And may the Lord's love shine upon you.

Sincerely,

~Jason.

...

100 Percent Proof that there is No Rapture

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