Christmas

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Its the same debate every year. Why not just cut and paste what you all said in 2013, 2012, 2011 and so on and so on. It's all the same crud muffin. :D

Or they should just realize no one cares about their anti-christmas zealotry and keep their opinions to themselves.
 
[scripture, bible study, scripture, bible study...]

Proverbs 25:2 [Brackets mine]
It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but it is the honor of [Royalty] is to search out a matter.

...if we even care [...]

[...] no one cares [...]

Speaks volumes.


But I can't help it Father God in heaven...

Psalm 69:9 [brackets mine]
for zeal for your house consumes me, and the insults of those who insult you fall on me.
 
Ok, let us please remember that Winter Solstice is Dec. 21 - 22. That is three to 4 days before Christmas.

I also think if the OP wants to pass her info off as fact, she is going to have to have some sources. This is just the same Hebrew Roots Movement propaganda which passes as truth every Christmas.
Astarte did not come up as having a birthday on Google. So scratch that one.

Isis came up as a god in Egypt, but no birthday mentioned that I could find.

As for Semiramis, a lot of questionable sites do mention her as the mother of Nimrod, and place someone's birthday on Dec. 25.

Basically, upon looking up just a tiny bit of this, I am convinced this is all just a smear campaign by anti-Catholics. If you want to debate Catholics, there is a sticky at the top of the BDF. Personally, I think most Catholics leave the church when they find out how the basic tenants of the faith and soteriology are wrong, but.....

WHAT??? This is supposed to be a fun thread? Could have fooled me! No wait, did fool me!

From the Catholic Encyclopedia...

Christmas. — The word for Christmas in late O. E. is Cristes Maesse, the Mass of Christ, first found in 1038, and Cristes-messe, in 1131. In Dutch it is Kerst-misse, in Lat. Dies Natalis, whence Fr. Noel, and Ital. Il natale; in Ger. Weihnachtsfest, from the preceding sacred vigil. The term Yule is of disputed origin. It is unconnected with any word meaning "wheel". The name in A. S. was geol, feast: geola, the name of a month (cf. Icel. iol, a feast in December).

EARLY CELEBRATION.—Christmas was not among the earliest festivals of the Church. Irenaeus and Tertullian omit it from their lists of feasts; Origen, glancing perhaps at the discreditable imperial Natalitia, asserts (in Lev. Horn. viii in Migne, P.G., XII, 495) that in the Scriptures sinners alone, not saints, celebrate their birthday; Arnobius (VII, 32 in P.L., V, 1264) can still ridicule the "birthdays" of the gods. The first evidence of the feast is from Egypt. Clement of Alexandria, c. 200 (Strom., I, xxi in P.G., VIII, 888), says that certain Egyptian theologians "over curiously" assign, not the year alone, but the day of Christ's birth, placing it on 25 Pachon (May 20) in the twenty-eighth year of Augustus. [Ideler (Chron., II, 387, n.) thought they did this believing that the ninth month, in which Christ was born, was the ninth of their own calendar.] Others reached the date of 24 or 25 Pharmuthi (19 or April 20). With Clement's evidence may be mentioned the "De pascha computus", written in 243 and falsely ascribed to Cyprian (P.L., IV, 963 sqq.), which places Christ's birth on March 28, because on that day the material sun was created. But Lupi has shown (Zaccaria, Dissertazioni ecc. del p. A.M. Lupi, Faenza, 1785, p. 219) that there is no month in the year to which respectable authorities have not assigned Christ's birth. - Christmas - Original Catholic Encyclopedia

Hmmm, Hebrew Roots Movement?
 
Matthew 13:44


...we can assume the man bought the field with the purpose of digging deeper for even *more* treasure also.

1 Corinthians 2:10


We can stay on the surface of what happened and never experience any depth of the richness of the glory of God...or we can dive into that richness, as God said to "ask, seek, and knock" for more.

We should already know as a fact that God - in his infinite wisdom - *always* gives more than one witness of a truth outside of scripture...especially for an event as important as Christ's birth, but let's see what the scriptures say.

----

Luke 1:5

1. Luke tells the reader Zechariah is the 8th priestly house to serve in the Temple in order for the year; Abijah (pronounced "A-bi-yah"). In 1st Chronicles 24:7-18 we read that this is the order King David established based on the sons of Aaron. 24 sons take turns as High Priest (to lead the service) in the temple throughout the year, every Sabbath. There are roughly 52 weeks in a year so every priest would lead at least twice by the time the year was finished.

2. Every able-bodied male was required to be in Jerusalem for the 3 feasts (Deuteronomy 16:16). These feasts were special requiring *all* 24 priestly houses to be present and serve, so these holidays didn't count toward their normal rotation, even through the priest next in line led temple services (Mishna Vol.2 order moed, tractate Rosh Hashanah).


Luke 1:8-9

3. Temple service began on the first Sabbath AFTER the 1st day of the 1st month of a new biblical year. The first Sabbath following Aviv 1 was any day between the 2nd and 8th of that month (a 7-day range) at the end of that week. So the following is the starting weeks of the course of priestly service:

Order of Priestly service for all 24 houses (at end of...):
Week 1 = Priest #1
Week 2 = all priests serve (because of Feast of Pesach/Passover; led by Priest #2)
Week 3 = Priest #2
Week 4 = Priest #3
Week 5 = Priest #4
Week 6 = Priest #5
Week 7 = Priest #6
Week 8 = Priest #7
Week 9 = all priests serve (because of Feast of Shavuot/Pentecost; led by Priest #8)
Week 10 = Priest #8
…etc.

So Luke says it was either the 9th or 10th week of priestly service and Zechariah - the 8th priest - was leading the service.


Luke 1:10
4. Why was the whole multitude there at the temple? Which week must it have been? 9 weeks into service put the narration in the 3rd biblical month. It was Shavuot (Pentecost); the Feast of Weeks.


Luke 1:23
5. Zechariah had to minister during two weeks (the 9th and 10th weeks) of temple service before returning home during the 11th week of priestly service...


Luke 1:24
6. (End of) 3rd biblical month + 5 months of Elizabeth hiding = (end of) 8th biblical month; (beginning of) 9th biblical month [or also beginning of Elizabeth's 6th month of pregnancy]


Luke 1:26 [brackets mine]
7. Within the 9th biblical month Christ was conceived through the power of the Holy Spirit.


Luke 1:56 [brackets mine]
8. 6th month of Elizabeth's pregnancy [or 9th biblical month] + 3 months = 9th months [or 12th biblical months finished]. This brings us right back around to the 1st biblical month by the time Elizabeth is ready to deliver John.


Luke 1:57

9. By this time, Mary is through 3 months of pregnancy...and it's within the 1st biblical month. She has 6 months to go before it's her time to deliver Christ into the world.

(within) 1st biblical month + 6 months to go = (within) 7th biblical month as when Christ is born.


10. Ancillary evidence: It was believe in Hebrew tradition that Elijah would return on Passover (which occurs in the 1st biblical month). To this day, Jews will still place an empty plate at their Passover table. But here in Luke we have John the baptist (who was prophesied to come in the spirit and power of Elijah) being born in the 1st biblical month, they just didn't recognize this was the Elijah fulfillment.

How much do you want to wager that he was born on Passover (14th of 1st month), considering (a) it can take 2 weeks after her term is reached for a woman to deliver her child, and (b) as per God's law a male child is circumcised on their 8th days of life (the day when Luke 1:59-60 says John was named by Zechariah)?

So 6 months from the middle of the 1st month brings us to the middle of the 7th, exactly when the Feast of Tabernacles begins.

---

So it was Feast of Tabernacles when Christ was born. Now imagine all of the people; multitudes upon multitudes of people...Jews...Gentiles...The last and most important Feast of the year for the Jews. Caesar's decree for his vote of all people... Imagine the level of temporary housing needed for *everyone*. Imagine like with any special event (even sports events) the space closer to the event is filled first - and quickly - and then it spreads out from the epicenter in Jerusalem. Time is required for all of this so we can imagine about a week or two before the actual day rooms are filling up everywhere including in nearby towns. Add to this, the requirement of every able-bodied male had to build a sukkah (temporary shelter with their supplies) on the holy day and actually live in it for 7 days, so imagine needing a inn for your stuff while you made your trek to the Holy Land. Imagine just how big - and important - all of this was to all of Israel!

"No room in the inn" in Bethlehem doesn't necessarily mean people were currently "inhabiting" in every single room, but it definitely means all the rooms were "booked". There was a convergence of activity in Israel so much so that Mary was forced to deliver Christ in a temporary housing structure (i.e. a Sukkah), perfectly fulfilling the Feast of Tabernacles. The 15th of the 7th biblical month.

Luke's original readers would have known exactly when Christ was born simply from the text that he gave because they were firmly a part of that Hebrew culture (living through their calendar & traditions each year), the same way you would know which month and day I was talking about if I said "Jim was born on Thanksgiving". But in order to see the full picture; the full truth, we must dig below the surface of what's already shared using all of scripture where it applies.

Proverbs 25:2 [Brackets mine]


...if we even care to do so.

You are reading into the text which festival it was that the angel spoke to Zachirias. John the baptist could have been conceived just after Yom Kuppur. And two how can people be in TWO PLACES at one time?

Luke 2 plainly says that everyone went to their OWN TOWN TO REGISTER.

2 In those days Caesar Augustus issued a decree that a census should be taken of the entire Roman world. [SUP]2 [/SUP](This was the first census that took place while[SUP][a][/SUP] Quirinius was governor of Syria.) [SUP]3 [/SUP]And everyone went to their own town to register.

How then can one be in their OWN TOWN and Jerusalem at the VERY SAME TIME?
Please explain HOW that is possible?


By the way they went to register NOT to vote but to be TAXED.
 
You are reading into the text which festival it was that the angel spoke to Zachirias. John the baptist could have been conceived just after Yom Kuppur. And two how can people be in TWO PLACES at one time?


No he could not have been. You missed this part...

Luk 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.

The course of Abijah was the eight course and served in the Temple the week before Pentecost from noon Sabbath to noon Sabbath.

Luk 1:8 And it came to pass, that while he executed the priest's office before God in the order of his course,
Luk 1:9 According to the custom of the priest's office, his lot was to burn incense when he went into the temple of the Lord.

The course of Abijah fell in the week of June 13th to the 19th in 5BC. When was John conceived?

Luk 1:24 And after those days his wife Elisabeth conceived, and hid herself five months, saying,

What days is it speaking of? The course of Abijah when Zacharias served in the Temple.
 
No he could not have been. You missed this part...

Luk 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.

The course of Abijah was the eight course and served in the Temple the week before Pentecost from noon Sabbath to noon Sabbath.

Luk 1:8 And it came to pass, that while he executed the priest's office before God in the order of his course,
Luk 1:9 According to the custom of the priest's office, his lot was to burn incense when he went into the temple of the Lord.

The course of Abijah fell in the week of June 13th to the 19th in 5BC. When was John conceived?

Luk 1:24 And after those days his wife Elisabeth conceived, and hid herself five months, saying,

What days is it speaking of? The course of Abijah when Zacharias served in the Temple.

So what do you do with Luke 2 which once again says this?

Luke 2



2 In those days Caesar Augustus issued a decree that a census should be taken of the entire Roman world. [SUP]2 [/SUP](This was the first census that took place while[SUP][a][/SUP] Quirinius was governor of Syria.) [SUP]3 [/SUP]And everyone went to their own town to register.

And again HOW is it POSSIBLE to have people registering in their OWN TOWNS and ALSO to be IN JERUSALEM at the very same time? Two where does Luke say that it is at THE VERY same time as a major festival in chapter 2?
 
Or they should just realize no one cares about their anti-christmas zealotry and keep their opinions to themselves.

I beg to differ. There are many who care about these issues. I get emails and messages asking, because there are many who sincerely want to know whether christmas is Biblical or not.

Which it is not.
No reference to it in Scripture.
Never celebrated by anyone in Scripture.
No one, including Jesus or the prophets told us to celebrate it.

And people celebrate it on the wrong day.

The fact that people celebrate it despite these things is worthy of a discussion.
 
So what do you do with Luke 2 which once again says this?

Luke 2



2 In those days Caesar Augustus issued a decree that a census should be taken of the entire Roman world. [SUP]2 [/SUP](This was the first census that took place while[SUP][a][/SUP] Quirinius was governor of Syria.) [SUP]3 [/SUP]And everyone went to their own town to register.

And again HOW is it POSSIBLE to have people registering in their OWN TOWNS and ALSO to be IN JERUSALEM at the very same time? Two where does Luke say that it is at THE VERY same time as a major festival in chapter 2?

The course of Abijah is the course of Abijah. It is not a crap shoot as to when each of these courses occur...

1Ch 24:5 Thus were they divided by lot, one sort with another; for the governors of the sanctuary, and governors of the house of God, were of the sons of Eleazar, and of the sons of Ithamar.

1Ch 24:6 And Shemaiah the son of Nethaneel the scribe, one of the Levites, wrote them before the king, and the princes, and Zadok the priest, and Ahimelech the son of Abiathar, and before the chief of the fathers of the priests and Levites: one principal household being taken for Eleazar, and one taken for Ithamar.
1Ch 24:7 Now the first lot came forth to Jehoiarib, the second to Jedaiah,
1Ch 24:8 The third to Harim, the fourth to Seorim,
1Ch 24:9 The fifth to Malchijah, the sixth to Mijamin,
1Ch 24:10 The seventh to Hakkoz, the eighth to Abijah,

You can read the whole chapter to understand how the duties of the Priests were divided up into courses. You see that Abijah is the eight course, and it is an easy lookup to see when the course of Abijah occurred in 5BC.

Apparently this is new information to you.
 
The course of Abijah is the course of Abijah. It is not a crap shoot as to when each of these courses occur...

1Ch 24:5 Thus were they divided by lot, one sort with another; for the governors of the sanctuary, and governors of the house of God, were of the sons of Eleazar, and of the sons of Ithamar.

1Ch 24:6 And Shemaiah the son of Nethaneel the scribe, one of the Levites, wrote them before the king, and the princes, and Zadok the priest, and Ahimelech the son of Abiathar, and before the chief of the fathers of the priests and Levites: one principal household being taken for Eleazar, and one taken for Ithamar.
1Ch 24:7 Now the first lot came forth to Jehoiarib, the second to Jedaiah,
1Ch 24:8 The third to Harim, the fourth to Seorim,
1Ch 24:9 The fifth to Malchijah, the sixth to Mijamin,
1Ch 24:10 The seventh to Hakkoz, the eighth to Abijah,

You can read the whole chapter to understand how the duties of the Priests were divided up into courses. You see that Abijah is the eight course, and it is an easy lookup to see when the course of Abijah occurred in 5BC.

Apparently this is new information to you.

But you leave out one factor that you are NOT accounting for

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[TD="class: TextObject, width: 582"] The Jewish calendar begins in the Spring (i.e., Nisan 1), so the first course of priests (Jehoiarib) would serve for seven days. The second week would then fall to the family of Jedaiah. The third week would be the festival of Passover, when all priests would be present for service, so the schedule would resume with the third course of priests (Harim) on the fourth week. By the tenth week, since both Passover and Shavu'ot had occurred, the 8th course of Abia (Abijah) would be called for temple service. By means of this arrangement, after the 24th course was completed, the cycle of courses would repeat, so that in a given year each group of priests would serve in the
Temple twice per year
(in addition to the three major festivals).


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[TD="class: TextObject, width: 556, colspan: 3"]The argument for assigning late December as the rightful date of the birth of Yeshua is based on further reflection on the time Zacharias was told that Elizabeth would conceive a child. [/TD]
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  1. Yeshua's cousin, John the Baptist, was conceived just after Yom Kippur (Tishri 10) and born 40 weeks later in Tammuz (June/July).
    • John's father (Zacharias) was a Levite who was assigned to serve in the temple during the course of "Abia," the 8th course of the year. However, the 8th course would serve both on the 10th week of the year (see above) as well as on the 34th week: 24 (first complete cycle) +2 (festivals) + 8 = 34.
    • This places Zacharias' service in the Temple as during the High Holiday of Yom Kippur, and this agrees with the description given about how Gabriel spoke to Zacharias in the narrative (Luke 1:8-23).
    • It is written that John was conceived shortly after this tour of duty (Luke 1:23-4), perhaps on 17 Tishri. Therefore, John the Baptist was probably conceived shortly after the Yom Kippur and would have been born on the 17th of Tammuz (June/July).




Christmas - Was Jesus born on December 25th?

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But you leave out one factor that you are NOT accounting for

[TABLE="width: 650"]
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[TD="class: TextObject, width: 582"] The Jewish calendar begins in the Spring (i.e., Nisan 1), so the first course of priests (Jehoiarib) would serve for seven days. The second week would then fall to the family of Jedaiah. The third week would be the festival of Passover, when all priests would be present for service, so the schedule would resume with the third course of priests (Harim) on the fourth week. By the tenth week, since both Passover and Shavu'ot had occurred, the 8th course of Abia (Abijah) would be called for temple service. By means of this arrangement, after the 24th course was completed, the cycle of courses would repeat, so that in a given year each group of priests would serve in the
Temple twice per year
(in addition to the three major festivals).


[TABLE="width: 649"]
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[TD="class: TextObject, width: 556, colspan: 3"]The argument for assigning late December as the rightful date of the birth of Yeshua is based on further reflection on the time Zacharias was told that Elizabeth would conceive a child.[/TD]
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  1. Yeshua's cousin, John the Baptist, was conceived just after Yom Kippur (Tishri 10) and born 40 weeks later in Tammuz (June/July).
    • John's father (Zacharias) was a Levite who was assigned to serve in the temple during the course of "Abia," the 8th course of the year. However, the 8th course would serve both on the 10th week of the year (see above) as well as on the 34th week: 24 (first complete cycle) +2 (festivals) + 8 = 34.
    • This places Zacharias' service in the Temple as during the High Holiday of Yom Kippur, and this agrees with the description given about how Gabriel spoke to Zacharias in the narrative (Luke 1:8-23).
    • It is written that John was conceived shortly after this tour of duty (Luke 1:23-4), perhaps on 17 Tishri. Therefore, John the Baptist was probably conceived shortly after the Yom Kippur and would have been born on the 17th of Tammuz (June/July).




Christmas - Was Jesus born on December 25th?[/TD]
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Where did your source here learn math?

Actually, I am glad you posted this, I found an error in my calculations. Nisan 1 occurred on March 9 of 5BC. The Passover was on March 22. The eighth course, the course of Abijah, would have been from May 6 to May 13 and Pentecost would have been on May 14 so all of the Priests would have served the week of May 13 through May 20. Zacharias would have headed home after the Sabbath on May 20.

Now to be practical, let’s give Elizabeth a probable four week period (I think that is very generous, but we are looking for an approximate date) during which she conceived. Works out to last 1-1/2 weeks of May to the first 2-1/2 weeks of June. Just for round numbers, let’s take the first of June. So six months later, when Mary conceived, would have been around the first of December.

Nine months later is end of August, first of September. (I was about two weeks off the first time around.)

This puts the birth of Christ at the end of August, first of September in 4 BC.

This works on many levels but let's suppose Zacharias worked the second course, six months later, that puts the birth of Christ six months past the 1st of September or somewhere around the 1st of March the next year (3BC).

This doesn't work for several reasons. Two major reasons...

1) Christ's ministry lasted 3-1/2 years. If He were born around March 1 that puts His crucifixion around the Feast of Trumpets. We KNOW He was crucified on Passover.

2) This puts His birth in 3BC. A date that can't work for Dan 9. The decree was in 457BC and 69 weeks later is 27AD. We know His ministry began when He was 30 years old, so 27AD - 30 years is 4BC. March 3BC can't work.

The conclusion is that Christ was born around the fall Festival season of 4BC.
 
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You are reading into the text which festival it was that the angel spoke to Zachirias. John the baptist could have been conceived just after Yom Kuppur. And two how can people be in TWO PLACES at one time?

Luke 2 plainly says that everyone went to their OWN TOWN TO REGISTER.

2 In those days Caesar Augustus issued a decree that a census should be taken of the entire Roman world. [SUP]2 [/SUP](This was the first census that took place while[SUP][a][/SUP] Quirinius was governor of Syria.) [SUP]3 [/SUP]And everyone went to their own town to register.

How then can one be in their OWN TOWN and Jerusalem at the VERY SAME TIME?
Please explain HOW that is possible?


By the way they went to register NOT to vote but to be TAXED.

This is also incorrect.

Luke 2:1-2 [original Greek word restored]
And it came to pass in those days that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be [apographesthai].

English translations of the above passage are in error because the Greek word for "taxation census" is "Forologia". The Greek word used in this passage is a variation of the word "Apographó", meaning "enrollment; registration". I encourage you to confirm this for yourself.

In the 25th Year of the Reign of Caesar Augustus he decreed that Rome name him Pater Patriae (Father of the Country), a title which must be voted by all of his subjects through registration. (Res Gestae #35; Who was Who in Roman Times :Life and deeds of Augustus by Augustus)
 
Pagan Origins

It's interesting to realise that December 25th (Christmas) in the Roman Empire and prior - was the day people celebrated the birthdays for these idols / demons / pagan gods:



Apollo, Attis, Bacchus, Dionysus, Helios, Hercules, Horus, Jupiter, Mithras, Perseus, Sol Invictus and Tammuz.

If you investigate the ancient religions - you find that almost all of them have origins with Nimrod. The bible doesn't say much about him - but mentions him (Genesis 10:8, 1 Chronicles 1:10, Micah 5:2).



Nimrod's birthday was also celebrated on December 25th by many. According to the ancient Babylonians, Semiramis (who was believed to be both Nimrods mother and wife - also known as Astarte, Asherah, Ashtoreth, Isis, Ishtar and Easter) made the claim that after Nimrod died, an evergreen tree sprang up overnight from a dead tree stump. Semiramis claimed that Nimrod visited the evergreen tree and left gifts each year on the anniversary of his birth (December 25th). These beliefs were in circulation well before Jesus entered the scene of human history. Does this sound familiar?

10846211_10152362963111442_3998687132526705725_n.jpg


Jeremiah - one of Gods prophets, who lived between 600-500 BC wrote of these pagan rituals saying (Jeremiah 10);


Learn not the way of the nations, nor be dismayed at the signs of the heavens because the nations are dismayed at them, for the customs of the peoples are vanity. A tree from the forest is cut down and worked with an axe by the hands of a craftsman. They decorate it with silver and gold; they fasten it with hammer and nails so that it cannot move.


For the first 300 years of Church history - Christmas didn't exist. No one celebrated Jesus birth. However, many believers (though not under obligation) did celebrate the festival / feast of Sukkot (Tabernacles).

It's almost unanimously agreed among scholars that Jesus was not born on December 25th. The bible describes how the sheep were in the fields (Luke 2) at the time of Jesus birth. This didn't happen in the middle of winter when it snows. Some have tried to calculate Jesus birth based on various details in scripture, alongside historical information and speculate that it's likely he was born during the feast of Tabernacles (which makes sense).

Speculating Jesus Birth Date


Elizabeth (John the Baptist's mother) was six months pregnant when Jesus was conceived (Luke:1:24-26). John's father - Zacharias was a priest serving in the division of Abijah in Jerusalem's temple (Luke:1:5). Based on the priestly division cycles - Zacharias service would have been around mid June in that year. After he completed his service and traveled home, Elizabeth conceived (Luke:1:23-24). If John's conception took place towards the end of June, then we add nine months and it brings us to the end of March. If we add six months it brings us to the end of September.

We don't know for certain when Jesus was born - but we can arrive at an approximate time period. What we do know, is that it wasn't December 25th!


Charles Spurgeon's Thoughts On Christmas

Charles Spurgeon, the famous preacher from the 1800's said this about the observance of Christmas:


"We have no superstitious regard for times and seasons. Certainly we do not believe in the present ecclesiastical arrangement called Christmas: first, because we do not believe in the mass at all, but abhor it, whether it be said or sung in Latin or in English; and, secondly, because we find no Scriptural warrant whatever for observing any day as the birthday of the Saviour; and, consequently, its observance is a superstition, because not of divine authority. Superstition has fixed most positively the day of our Saviour's birth, although there is no possibility of discovering when it occurred. Fabricius gives a catalog of 136 different learned opinions upon the matter; and various divines invent weighty arguments for advocating a date in every month in the year. It was not till the middle of the third century that any part of the church celebrated the nativity of our Lord; and it was not till very long after the Western church had set the example, that the Eastern adopted it. Because the day is not known, therefore superstition has fixed it; while, since the day of the death of our Saviour might be determined with much certainty, therefore superstition shifts the date of its observance every year. Where is the method in the madness of the superstitious? Probably the fact is that the holy days were arranged to fit in with heathen festivals. We venture to assert, that if there be any day in the year, of which we may be pretty sure that it was not the day on which the Savior was born, it is the twenty-fifth of December. Nevertheless since, the current of men's thoughts is led this way just now, and I see no evil in the current itself, I shall launch the bark of our discourse upon that stream, and make use of the fact, which I shall neither justify nor condemn, by endeavouring to lead your thoughts in the same direction. Since it is lawful, and even laudable, to meditate upon the incarnation of the Lord upon any day in the year, it cannot be in the power of other men's superstitions to render such a meditation improper for to-day. Regarding not the day, let us, nevertheless, give God thanks for the gift of his dear son."​


Christ Mass

The Roman Catholic Mass (which is where the mass in Christmas comes from) itself is evil in the sense that it adds to the completed work of Christ on the cross! Mediation is made by a human priest between men and God, in contradiction to the clear teachings of the New Testament which tells us that there is one mediator between God and man the Lord Jesus Christ. Scripture teaches that the Spirit of Christ dwells in us when we are born again, and that we need no man to mediate between us and Christ. We can come boldly before the throne of grace through the power of Gods Holy Spirit in the name of our Lord and Saviour Jesus to find mercy and grace in our time of need! God can hear our prayers! We don't need a ritual to get right with God. Additionally, I'd like to point out that there are many ancient pagan and occult symbols that have been adopted and re-branded within the Catholic tradition and Church (which we won't speak about now) as well as the merging of false deities that were renamed to saints - which to this day are prayed too within the Church. There are many problems with Catholicism - we'll leave those for another day. This article is about Christmas.

Santa Claus



As adults we can overlook the serious problems of Santa because they don't necessarily effect us directly. But what about our Children? Children are taught that he is a real man, who knows when they are naughty and nice, he knows when they are sleeping and awake. Does this characteristic sound familiar? God alone enjoys omniscience. This is a unique characteristic of God. Santa in one night travels the globe, stops time, and delivers gifts. He carries with him eternal like characteristics. Children write letters to Santa and communicate with this person they believe will answer their requests!

For a child - they genuinely believe in him. This is IDOLATRY! Not only do parents lie to their children, but they set up an idol for them to in a sense worship. There is no real difference between the relationship Santa has to a child, and the Hindu gods have to their worshipers. God tells us not to lie, yet many feel that Christmas is a time they will be overlooked, alongside Easter with the Easter bunny, or the Tooth Fairy.

Jesus didn't hide from controversy, but rejoiced in the truth, which is why I am going to say this... Santa Claus is demonic!


Christian Response

The big question is - should we remember and celebrate Jesus birth on December 25th? Well firstly - it's clear that we are under no obligation to celebrate Jesus birth! Likewise - we are under no obligation not too! But what shouldn't we do? We shouldn't practice paganism. Just as God wouldn't like us to practice Yoga (a form of Hinduism), or wear pentagrams and occult symbols around our necks, or participate in demonic rituals - he doesn't want us to join in with the evergreen ritual associated with Nimrod and Semiramis, or lie to our Children about Santa.

I don't believe there is anything wrong with giving gifts to people, having a meal, and remembering Jesus birth. But as we do it - let's not give any special reverence to the day itself, or to the pagan elements practiced by those around us (Christmas tree, Santa etc.)

We can't let go of our traditions like the converted Hellenistic Jews couldn't let go of their traditions as well, that is why we are under God grace, because we are weak like everyone else is.
 
We can't let go of our traditions like the converted Hellenistic Jews couldn't let go of their traditions as well, that is why we are under God grace, because we are weak like everyone else is.

Are you implying that the Messiah's Sacrifice made it ok to "not let go of our traditions?"
 
Are you implying that the Messiah's Sacrifice made it ok to "not let go of our traditions?"

You can say that. God has forgiven us our debt as we suppose to forgive others. So right now we has to walk in grace which means whatever wrong doing that a person does to us, we must forgive them more than 77 times which means to the end, the until the last Sabbath. But if we doesn't walk in grace then our debt isn't forgiven, and we will have to repay it back plus with interest. So I think it is better to forgive your enemies rather have to repay back something that it is going to take eternity to repay.

2 Corinthians 13:14 May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. ( He is saying that he hope that we has the power of grace, love and fellowship in us and which some of us doesn't have)

Galatians 1:6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel

Galatians 2:21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”
( The only way to be righteous, is to show mercy)

Ephesians 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God
( He is saying that it is impossible for us to forgive others on our own, but God has given us this ability to forgive. God will put us through ordeals to show us how to forgive.)

Matthew 19:26 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

Matthew 18:32 “Then the master called the servant in. ‘You wicked servant,’ he said, ‘I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. 33 Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?’ 34 In anger his master handed him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.

35 “This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.”
 
Are you implying that the Messiah's Sacrifice made it ok to "not let go of our traditions?"

You can say that.

Then why did the Messiah give it to the Pharisees* if in a few days tradition was going to be ok?

*Mattithyah 15:2-3, "Why do Your disciples transgress the traditions of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat. But He answered, and said to them: And why do you transgress the Laws of Yahweh by your traditions?"
 
Colossians 2:8, "Beware that no one leads you away like a prize because of philosophy or empty, false statements, according to the traditions of men, after the elements of the world, and not after the Messiah!"


Yeremyah 10:1-6, "Hear the word which Yahweh speaks concerning you, O house of Israyl. This is what Yahweh says: Do not learn the way of the heathen and do not be deceived by the signs of heaven; though the heathen are deceived by them For the religious customs of the peoples are vain; worthless! For one cuts a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the ax. They decorate it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, so that it will not move; topple over. They are upright, like a palm tree, but they cannot speak; they must be carried, because they cannot go by themselves. Do not give them reverence! They cannot do evil, nor is it in them to do righteousness!"
 
Then why did the Messiah give it to the Pharisees* if in a few days tradition was going to be ok?

*Mattithyah 15:2-3, "Why do Your disciples transgress the traditions of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat. But He answered, and said to them: And why do you transgress the Laws of Yahweh by your traditions?"

He was replying back to them about them focusing on the speck in the disciples eyes and not focusing on the log that is covering their eyes. They should of have been focusing on their own faults rather than others.
 
He was replying back to them about them focusing on the speck in the disciples eyes and not focusing on the log that is covering their eyes. They should of have been focusing on their own faults rather than others.

So it had nothing to do with what the verse says? (traditions/Law)

Mattithyah 15:2-3, "Why do Your disciples transgress the traditions of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat. But He answered, and said to them: And why do you transgress the Laws of Yahweh by your traditions?"

Are you certian this verse is not the Messiah calling the Pharisees out for making their own law (23 volumes) thus making the Law of Yah of no effect?

Mark 7:13, "Making the Laws of Yahweh of no effect through your tradition you have handed down! And many other similar things you do."
 
So it had nothing to do with what the verse says? (traditions/Law)

Mattithyah 15:2-3, "Why do Your disciples transgress the traditions of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat. But He answered, and said to them: And why do you transgress the Laws of Yahweh by your traditions?"

Are you certian this verse is not the Messiah calling the Pharisees out for making their own law (23 volumes) thus making the Law of Yah of no effect?

Mark 7:13, "Making the Laws of Yahweh of no effect through your tradition you have handed down! And many other similar things you do."

Remember the Elders were the ones that know the laws and corrected others when they doesn't performed them properly. But remember the laws were to make people to become respectful and loving soul; but instead it has made them into hateful, judgmental souls because they had followed them as a pattern but not learning the purpose of them. Just as the Catholic priest are doing, just following the same old routine like a theatrical religion that rehearsing the same old script and over and over, but not gaining wisdom from it and which that kills the purpose of the laws.