THE GREAT DEBATE...LAW AND GRACE

[ChristIsGod]

And my Pastor would say Amen to all that you've posted in those Scriptures because they preach "holiness".

Our difference is that I believe in God's Foreknowledge and posted the 'three' scriptures that speak of that but those guys wouldn't even look at those verses. I know my pastor, though he is Reformed, would look at what we've posted and say that it's O.K. because he "walks in the Spirit" and knows in his heart when he's talking to a "Christian" - as many know of Whitfield and Wesley making peace and loving each other at the end.

Pastor was the best Biblical counseler I had when I was living a hell on earth back then.
I went there initially because they built the Nursing Home where I worked and I wanted to meet those that were responsible for building one of the best State Rated homes in that State -- and then I saw that they were supporting over 50 missionary families and doing all sorts of things to evangelize the town and then I began to meet with pastor for problems I was living through and he would always give me the same Scriptures that The Lord had given me just prior to my talking to him each time. He would pray that the Lord would make him invisible when he spoke - and he was. He'd look my way during his sermon and say "Shalom" and he wasn't a man pleaser but the most academically intelligent pastor I've ever sat under. He had another job before he went into the ministry that I won't say what it was - but it took tremendous intellect to do what he did before pastoring -- but his heart was even bigger than that big brain of his.
The love from him and his wife was so tangible, no one could hate that man - except for maybe the only two men that had their membership revoked that were both supposed to be pastors at one time but fell - literally, all the way. That broke both the pastor and the session men [12 elders & deacons] to have to let anybody go. Sigh. To sit under such scholarly men and then to come on here and get these types of responses is just way beyond my ability to cope.

You won't change these men. They've decided a long time ago what type of 'believers' they chose to be.

Psalm 119 is legalism to these types. To my pastor, you and me, it's Life.

But - it's good that it makes us dig deeper into His Word for the days ahead when the persecution will cause many to fall.
This is merely boot-camp for the days to come. It's only going to get worse - I know that you know that.

Shalom to you that love His law - deep in the inside - Amen!

 

[Hizikyah]

Psalm 119 is legalism to these types. To my pastor, you and me, it's Life.

But - it's good that it makes us dig deeper into His Word for the days ahead when the persecution will cause many to fall.
This is merely boot-camp for the days to come. It's only going to get worse - I know that you know that.

Shalom to you that love His law - deep in the inside - Amen!

In Yahshua's name I love you so!

Isayah 60:19-20, "The sun will no longer be your light by day; nor for brightness will the moon give light to you; but Yahweh will be to you an everlasting light and your Father your glory. Your sun will no longer set, and your moon will no longer wane; for Yahweh will be your everlasting light, and the days of your mourning will be ended."

 

[Karraster]

I would like to give you more reputation for this post, but it will not let me yet.
For what you say here is the matter of what we all say, God's moral laws are written in our heart. The 613 mosaic laws where just that, laws for the Jews under the mosaic covenant. We are not under the mosaic covenant, we are under the new covenant of our Lord in which the 613 mosaic laws do not apply.

Isn't this speaking about the last days? Isn't this warning to all men/women? I believe it is.

Isaiah 66:17
For the LORD will execute judgment by fire And by His sword on all flesh, And those slain by the LORD will be many. 17"Those who sanctify and purify themselves to go to the gardens, Following one in the center, Who eat swine's flesh, detestable things and mice, Will come to an end altogether," declares the LORD. 18"For I know their works and their thoughts; the time is coming to gather all nations and tongues. And they shall come and see My glory.…

 

[Hizikyah]

Isn't this speaking about the last days? Isn't this warning to all men/women? I believe it is.

Isaiah 66:17
For the LORD will execute judgment by fire And by His sword on all flesh, And those slain by the LORD will be many. 17"Those who sanctify and purify themselves to go to the gardens, Following one in the center, Who eat swine's flesh, detestable things and mice, Will come to an end altogether," declares the LORD. 18"For I know their works and their thoughts; the time is coming to gather all nations and tongues. And they shall come and see My glory.…

this is endtime also;

Malakyah 4:1-4,"For, behold, the day comes that will burn like an oven; and all the proud, yes, and all who do wickedly, will be stubble--the day that comes will burn them up, says Yahweh of hosts; and it will leave them neither root nor branch. But for you who reverence My Name, the light of righteousness will arise with healing in its wings; and you will go out, leaping like calves released from the stall. And you will tread down the wicked; for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I will do this, says Yahweh of hosts. Remember the Law of Mosheh My servant, which I commanded through him in Horeb for all Israyl, with the statutes and judgments."

Romans 9:6-8, "However, it is not as though Yahweh's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Israyl who belongs to Israyl. Nor, just because they are his descendants, are they all Abraham's children; but: In Isaac will your seed be called. That is, it is not those who are the children of the flesh who are Yahweh's children; but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's seed."

Psalm 105:6-9, "O seed of Abraham His servant, You children of Yaaqob, His chosen ones! He is Yahweh our Father! His judgments are in all the earth. He has remembered His covenant forever, the Law He commanded for a thousand generations; Which He made; ratified, established, with Abraham, and vowed by His oath to Isaac. He confirmed it; let it stand, to Yaaqob for a Law, and to Israyl for an everlasting covenant."

Galations 3:28,29, "Is there not the Yahdai as well as the Greek; Gentile? Is there not the slave as well as the freeman? Is there not the male and the female? For all of you must be in unity in Yahshua Messiah. And if you are in Messiah, then you are a seed of Abraham, heirs according to the promise."

Psalam 89:26-37, "He will call out to Me; You are my Father, O Yahweh! You are the Rock of my salvation! And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him. And I will establish his Seed forever, and his throne will be as the days of heaven. Should his children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My lovingkindness I will not utterly withdraw from him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness--I cannot lie, and I say to David: His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky."

 

[Atwood]

How far will it go when I say.... faith without works is dead?

How long does this guy go on this way?

Has anyone contradicted yet the POV that salvation leads to good works?

Ephesians 2: God's grace & Man's faith result in salvation for man; works do not bring salvation, but they do result from salvation.

Does the NewB not get it yet?

For by grace you have been saved through faith, . . . not of works lest anyone should boast.

 

[Atwood]

You know, mitspa - I have been a member of a Reformed "TULIP" church for over 7 yrs and pastor knows that I don't go for Calvin but as popular as that church is and their outstanding reputation, he won't let me give up my membership and knew all along that I didn't agree with Calvin -- but we all loved each other so very much that I could not put it into words on here if I tried. I'm still a member and we will always stay in touch, though I moved.

It's not this topic that upset me - it is the lying, the twisting of words, the name calling, the nasty replies, the not really taking the time to look at the verses the other Brothers are posting and before you came - it was just as bad if not worse. We never got "Scripture" as replies - just insults and sly accusations - and now you've become almost just like that. I put the others on Ignore but I had more hopes that you could remain a gentlemen like my pastor - but I suppose your idea of 'love' is quite different than his.

Christians are not defined as those who endorse all 5 of the TULIP vs those who don't. I doubt that Calvin endorsed all 5 himself completely.

However, the debate between those who believe that salvation is by grace through faith & those who think salvation is awarded for good works after some eschatological judgment -- that is a debate between Christians and unsaved Pharisees, those who teach a false gospel as in Galatians 1 which deserves the anathema.

So we can't sweep this debate under the rug with a yumsy wumsy sugar plumsy.

 

[passinthru]

Thank you for giving a straight answer as that is all I asked, for others to say what commandments they find hard to keep and why ?

I am still somewhat curious .... does anyone here feel they have earned their salvation by works other than accepting Jesus Christ as their savior? Does anyone here feel that to keep their salvation it must be done by being perfect regarding the law?

 

[Karraster]

Isn't this speaking about the last days? Isn't this warning to all men/women? I believe it is.

Isaiah 66:17
For the LORD will execute judgment by fire And by His sword on all flesh, And those slain by the LORD will be many. 17"Those who sanctify and purify themselves to go to the gardens, Following one in the center, Who eat swine's flesh, detestable things and mice, Will come to an end altogether," declares the LORD. 18"For I know their works and their thoughts; the time is coming to gather all nations and tongues. And they shall come and see My glory.…

My goodness..I haven't seen this before in verse 17, Those who sanctify and purify themselves to go to the gardens,


Just now I see that reminds me of Messiah's first miracle..how He made mockery of the religious leader's purification pots..turning water to wine in them surely defiled them in their eyes.

..Following one in the center..is that something to do with Nicolaitans?


..anybody know?

 

[Brainfreeze]

Isn't this speaking about the last days? Isn't this warning to all men/women? I believe it is.

Isaiah 66:17
For the LORD will execute judgment by fire And by His sword on all flesh, And those slain by the LORD will be many. 17"Those who sanctify and purify themselves to go to the gardens, Following one in the center, Who eat swine's flesh, detestable things and mice, Will come to an end altogether," declares the LORD. 18"For I know their works and their thoughts; the time is coming to gather all nations and tongues. And they shall come and see My glory.…

9On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour: 10And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance, 11And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth: 12Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. 13And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.

14But Peter said, Not so, Yah; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.15And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.16This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.17Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made enquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate, 18And called, and asked whether Simon, which was surnamed Peter, were lodged there.19While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee. 20Arise therefore, and get thee down, and go with them, doubting nothing: for I have sent them.

 

[Atwood]

So still no answer to my question, a simple yes or no would be alright.
Nobody is going to judge you on that, for none of us are suppose to judge another. Nor are we to belittle, down grade, make fun of, or even laugh at another if they do not know.
Do you know that Paul did not write all of his epistles ?

Demanding a yes or no is not the way to get the truth from a witness. Shall we pay tribute to Caesar, yes or no! Many truths are scaler instead of binary.

1) It is clear that Paul did not write Romans (Tertius did) -- Paul didn't do the writing, but evidently dictated, adding a personal writing at the end, like "Grace be with . . ."

2) Paul sometimes includes other names in the introduction along with his own name. You may debate what that means.

3) God is the author of all scripture, the prophet who delivered it is of secondary importance. Pasa graphe theopneustos.

4) It is standard unbeliever liberal modernist skunk procedure to deny that an author whose name is on a book wrote the book.

5) It is standard skunk policy also to deny the integrity of Bible books (2 or 3 Isaiah's) 2 Corinthians is a paste together of different original letters for skunks. JEDP are the sources of Moses, who didn't write Moses -- for skunks. Through in some redactors, square the hippopotamus. Yea, hath God said?

 

[Hizikyah]

My goodness..I haven't seen this before in verse 17, Those who sanctify and purify themselves to go to the gardens,


Just now I see that reminds me of Messiah's first miracle..how He made mockery of the religious leader's purification pots..turning water to wine in them surely defiled them in their eyes.

..Following one in the center..is that something to do with Nicolaitans?


..anybody know?

Its about people blindly following "the one in the center" who is that? The local priest.

The Hebrew text
renders this phrase: following the one in the center, rather than: one behind the other, as in the King James version. This ONE in the center is an idolatrous PRIEST or PREACHER. A Hebrew and Chaldee Lexicon to the Old Testament by Julius Furst, Page 1463.

 

[passinthru]

Demanding a yes or no is not the way to get the truth from a witness. Shall we pay tribute to Caesar, yes or no! Many truths are scaler instead of binary.

1) It is clear that Paul did not write Romans (Tertius did) -- Paul didn't do the writing, but evidently dictated, adding a personal writing at the end, like "Grace be with . . ."

2) Paul sometimes includes other names in the introduction along with his own name. You may debate what that means.

3) God is the author of all scripture, the prophet who delivered it is of secondary importance. Pasa graphe theopneustos.

4) It is standard unbeliever liberal modernist skunk procedure to deny that an author whose name is on a book wrote the book.

5) It is standard skunk policy also to deny the integrity of Bible books (2 or 3 Isaiah's) 2 Corinthians is a paste together of different original letters for skunks. JEDP are the sources of Moses, who didn't write Moses -- for skunks. Through in some redactors, square the hippopotamus. Yea, hath God said?

Please excuse my ignorance but what is a 'Skunk' the way you refer to it?

 

[Hizikyah]

9On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour: 10And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance, 11And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth: 12Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. 13And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.

14But Peter said, Not so, Yah; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.15And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.16This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.17Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made enquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate, 18And called, and asked whether Simon, which was surnamed Peter, were lodged there.19While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee. 20Arise therefore, and get thee down, and go with them, doubting nothing: for I have sent them.

The meaning of the vision IS GIVEN IN SCRIPTURE,

Acts 10:14, "But Kepha said; By no means, Ruler, for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean."

19 Now while Kepha was thinking about the vision, the Spirit said to him; Behold, three men seek you.

If he did not yet know the meaning how could we?

20 Arise therefore, and go below and go with them, doubting nothing; for I have sent them.

Acts 10:28, "And he said to them; You yourselves are aware how it is not Lawful for a Yahdai to associate with one of another nation, or to enter his house; but Yahweh has shown me that I must not call any man common or unclean."

 

[Brainfreeze]

this is endtime also;

Malakyah 4:1-4,"For, behold, the day comes that will burn like an oven; and all the proud, yes, and all who do wickedly, will be stubble--the day that comes will burn them up, says Yahweh of hosts; and it will leave them neither root nor branch. But for you who reverence My Name, the light of righteousness will arise with healing in its wings; and you will go out, leaping like calves released from the stall. And you will tread down the wicked; for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I will do this, says Yahweh of hosts. Remember the Law of Mosheh My servant, which I commanded through him in Horeb for all Israyl, with the statutes and judgments."

."

with the statutes... A Statutes are sometimes referred to as legislation or "black letter law." As a source of law, statutes are considered primary authority (as opposed to secondary authority).
The commandments brother...

 

[Brainfreeze]

The meaning of the vision IS GIVEN IN SCRIPTURE,

Acts 10:14, "But Kepha said; By no means, Ruler, for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean."

19 Now while Kepha was thinking about the vision, the Spirit said to him; Behold, three men seek you.

If he did not yet know the meaning how could we?

20 Arise therefore, and go below and go with them, doubting nothing; for I have sent them.

Acts 10:28, "And he said to them; You yourselves are aware how it is not Lawful for a Yahdai to associate with one of another nation, or to enter his house; but Yahweh has shown me that I must not call any man common or unclean."

: 12Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. 13And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.



15And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.


This also works for man as well as food..

 

[Hizikyah]

: 12Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. 13And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.

15And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

This also works for man as well as food..

Walk with me verse by verse brother. So you posted 12&15, in verse 19 Kepha (Pater) still does not YET understand;

[SUP]12 [/SUP]It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds. [SUP]13 [/SUP]Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.” [SUP]14 [/SUP]“Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”
[SUP]15 [/SUP]The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”
[SUP]16 [/SUP]This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]While Peter was wondering about the meaning of the vision, the men sent by Cornelius found out where Simon’s house was and stopped at the gate. [SUP]18 [/SUP]They called out, asking if Simon who was known as Peter was staying there.

[SUP]17 [/SUP]While Peter was wondering about the meaning of the vision

He did not yet understand the meaning how could you or I know the meaning by verse 17?, the holy Spirit did not yet reveal it:

[SUP]17 [/SUP]While Peter was wondering about the meaning of the vision

[SUP]19 [/SUP]While Peter was still thinking about the vision, the Spirit said to him, “Simon, three[SUP][a][/SUP] men are looking for you.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]So get up and go downstairs. Do not hesitate to go with them, for I have sent them.”
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Peter went down and said to the men, “I’m the one you’re looking for. Why have you come?”
[SUP]22 [/SUP]The men replied, “We have come from Cornelius the centurion. He is a righteous and God-fearing man, who is respected by all the Jewish people. A holy angel told him to ask you to come to his house so that he could hear what you have to say.”
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Then Peter invited the men into the house to be his guests.
The next day Peter started out with them, and some of the believers from Joppa went along. [SUP]
24 [/SUP]The following day he arrived in Caesarea. Cornelius was expecting them and had called together his relatives and close friends. [SUP]
25 [/SUP]As Peter entered the house, Cornelius met him and fell at his feet in reverence.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]But Peter made him get up. “Stand up,” he said, “I am only a man myself.”
[SUP]27 [/SUP]While talking with him, Peter went inside and found a large gathering of people.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]He said to them: “You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with or visit a Gentile. But God has shown me that I should not call anyone impure or unclean.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]So when I was sent for, I came without raising any objection. May I ask why you sent for me?”

"the Spirit said to him, “Simon, three[SUP][a][/SUP] men"

Remember?


[SUP]17 [/SUP]While Peter was wondering about the meaning of the vision
[SUP]19 [/SUP]While Peter was still thinking about the vision, the Spirit said to him, “Simon, three[SUP][a][/SUP] men are looking for you.


19 Now while Kepha was thinking about the vision, the Spirit said to him; Behold, three men seek you.
If he did not yet know the meaning how could we?

20 Arise therefore, and go below and go with them, doubting nothing; for I have sent them.

Acts 10:28, "And he said to them; You yourselves are aware how it is not Lawful for a Yahdai to associate with one of another nation, or to enter his house; but Yahweh has shown me that I must not call any man common or unclean."

and now if you like we can explore the forged words "Jesus declares all foods clean" Yes my fellow follower of Messiah, they are not in the original text.

 

[Hizikyah]

"the Spirit said to him, “Simon, three[SUP][a][/SUP] men"
Acts 10:28, "And he said to them; You yourselves are aware how it is not Lawful for a Yahdai to associate with one of another nation, or to enter his house; but Yahweh has shown me that I must not call any man common or unclean."

The Spirit spoke, it was not about food.

 

[Brainfreeze]

Walk with me verse by verse brother. So you posted 12&15, in verse 19 Kepha (Pater) still does not YET understand;

[SUP]12 [/SUP]It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds. [SUP]13 [/SUP]Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.” [SUP]14 [/SUP]“Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”
[SUP]15 [/SUP]The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”
[SUP]16 [/SUP]This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]While Peter was wondering about the meaning of the vision, the men sent by Cornelius found out where Simon’s house was and stopped at the gate. [SUP]18 [/SUP]They called out, asking if Simon who was known as Peter was staying there.

[SUP]17 [/SUP]While Peter was wondering about the meaning of the vision

He did not yet understand the meaning how could you or I know the meaning by verse 17?, the holy Spirit did not yet reveal it:

[SUP]17 [/SUP]While Peter was wondering about the meaning of the vision

[SUP]19 [/SUP]While Peter was still thinking about the vision, the Spirit said to him, “Simon, three[SUP][a][/SUP] men are looking for you.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]So get up and go downstairs. Do not hesitate to go with them, for I have sent them.”
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Peter went down and said to the men, “I’m the one you’re looking for. Why have you come?”
[SUP]22 [/SUP]The men replied, “We have come from Cornelius the centurion. He is a righteous and God-fearing man, who is respected by all the Jewish people. A holy angel told him to ask you to come to his house so that he could hear what you have to say.”
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Then Peter invited the men into the house to be his guests.
The next day Peter started out with them, and some of the believers from Joppa went along. [SUP]
24 [/SUP]The following day he arrived in Caesarea. Cornelius was expecting them and had called together his relatives and close friends. [SUP]
25 [/SUP]As Peter entered the house, Cornelius met him and fell at his feet in reverence.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]But Peter made him get up. “Stand up,” he said, “I am only a man myself.”
[SUP]27 [/SUP]While talking with him, Peter went inside and found a large gathering of people.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]He said to them: “You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with or visit a Gentile. But God has shown me that I should not call anyone impure or unclean.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]So when I was sent for, I came without raising any objection. May I ask why you sent for me?”

"the Spirit said to him, “Simon, three[SUP][a][/SUP] men"

Remember?


[SUP]17 [/SUP]While Peter was wondering about the meaning of the vision
[SUP]19 [/SUP]While Peter was still thinking about the vision, the Spirit said to him, “Simon, three[SUP][a][/SUP] men are looking for you.


19 Now while Kepha was thinking about the vision, the Spirit said to him; Behold, three men seek you.
If he did not yet know the meaning how could we?

20 Arise therefore, and go below and go with them, doubting nothing; for I have sent them.

Acts 10:28, "And he said to them; You yourselves are aware how it is not Lawful for a Yahdai to associate with one of another nation, or to enter his house; but Yahweh has shown me that I must not call any man common or unclean."

and now if you like we can explore the forged words "Jesus declares all foods clean" Yes my fellow follower of Messiah, they are not in the original text.

Yes, look down on no man, just as Paul and the vision told him... but God doesn't lie either..
He said kill and eat in the vision .. of course it had deeper meaning as you showed but on it's surface still true

Mark 7:18 "Are you so dull?" he asked. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'?Mark 7:19 For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean.")

 

[Hizikyah]

and now if you like we can explore the forged words "Jesus declares all foods clean" Yes my fellow follower of Messiah, they are not in the original text.

"Thus Jesus declared all foods clean"


Mark 7:1-23,

1 Then the Pharisees and certain scribes came together to Him, having come from Yerusalem.

2 And when they saw some of His disciples eating bread with defiled-that is to say, unwashed--hands, they found fault.

3 (Now the Pharisees, and the Yahdaim generally, never eat without washing their hands, holding the tradition of the elders. (Mat 15:2-3, "Why do Your disciples transgress the traditions of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat. But He answered, and said to them: And why do you transgress the Laws of Yahweh by your traditions?")

4 And when they come from the marketplaces, they do not eat unless they wash. And many other traditions they observe, such as the ritual washing of cups, pots, bronze utensils, and beds.)

5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him; Why do Your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands?

6 He answered, and said to them: Well has Isayah prophesied of you hypocrites--as it is written: This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me.

7 But in vain do they worship Me, teaching as doctrine the commandments of men.

8 For laying aside the Law of Yahweh, you hold the tradition of men!

9 Then He said to them: How well you reject the Law of Yahweh, so that you may keep your own tradition!

So clearly Yahshua the Messiah rebukes them for not only making their own "laws" but actually casting aside the Laws of Yahweh. Since foods neing clean or unclean is a common understand attached to this passage, let us consider if food Laws are man made or if the Creator made these Laws.

Genesis 7:1-2, "Then Yahweh said to Noah: Come into the ark, you and all your household, for I have seen you righteous before Me in this generation. You shall take with you seven pairs of every clean animal, a male and his female; two of animals that are unclean, a male and his female;"

Leviticus 11:1-2, "And Yahweh spoke to Mosheh and Aaron, saying to them: Speak to the children of Israyl, saying; These are the animals you may eat among all the beasts upon the land" 43-44, "You shall not make yourselves abominable with any creature that moves about on the ground. Do not defile yourselves by means of them, nor be made unclean by them. I am Yahweh your Heavenly Father. You shall therefore consecrate and sanctify yourselves, and you shall be holy; for I am holy. Neither shall you defile yourselves with any creature that moves about on the ground." 46-47, "This is the Law of the animals, and the birds, and every living thing that moves in the waters, and every creature that moves about on the ground. You must distinguish between the unclean and the clean--between the animal that may be eaten, and the animal that may not be eaten."

We can see these Laws literally came directly from the mouth of Yahweh, so when Messiah said: "How well you reject the Law of Yahweh, so that you may keep your own tradition!" It is clear He is not rebuking them for telling people to follow Yahweh's food Laws, but for their pharisee hand washing "law."

Malakyah 3:6-7, "For I am Yahweh, I change not; therefore you sons of Yaaqob are not consumed. Ever since the days of your fathers you have turned away from My ordinances, and have not kept them. Return to Me, and I will return to you! says Yahweh of hosts. But you said; How will we return?"

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

10 For Mosheh said: Honor your father and your mother; and: Whoever curses father or mother, let him be put to death;

11 But you say(Pharisees); If a man will say to his father or mother: Anything of mine which might have benefited you is qorban (that is, a gift set apart for Yahweh)--

12 You excuse him from doing what he is obligated to do for his father and his mother;

13 Making the Laws of Yahweh of no effect through your tradition you have handed down! And many other similar things you do.

More evidence of the pharisees adding their own laws to the people why excusing themselves from following Yahweh;s Law.

14 And when He had called all the people to Him, He said to them: Everyone, listen to Me and understand!

15 There is nothing from outside a man, that entering into him can defile him; but the things which come out of him, those are things which defile the man.

16 If any man has ears to hear, let him hear!

17 But when He had left the people and entered the house, His disciples asked Him about the parable.

 

[Brainfreeze]

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14 And when He had called all the people to Him, He said to them: Everyone, listen to Me and understand!

15 There is nothing from outside a man, that entering into him can defile him; but the things which come out of him, those are things which defile the man.

16 If any man has ears to hear, let him hear!

17 But when He had left the people and entered the house, His disciples asked Him about the parable.

Brother, I don't need the size five, six, letters to get a point.. If you can try to express without that or maybe just in bold, it will be well appreciated, so did He declare a law change or not in mark 7:19. ?