THE GREAT DEBATE...LAW AND GRACE

[Brainfreeze]

I used to think the same thing, because well, I was taught that, but I looked into it a few years back and If I remember the holy Spirit came on people about 90 times recorded in the OT, here are a few examples:

Numbers 11:17 “Then I will come down and speak with you there, and I will take of the Spirit who is upon you, and will put Him upon them; and they shall bear the burden of the people with you, so that you will not bear it all alone.

1 Samuel 16:14 Now the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord terrorized him.

1 Samuel 16:13 Then Samuel took the horn of oil and anointed him in the midst of his brothers; and the Spirit of the Lord came mightily upon David from that day forward. And Samuel arose and went to Ramah.

Numbers 11:25 Then the Lord came down in the cloud and spoke to him; and He took of the Spirit who was upon him and placed Him upon the seventy elders. And when the Spirit rested upon them, they prophesied. But they did not do it again.

Isaiah 63:10, "But they rebelled And grieved His Holy Spirit; Therefore He turned Himself to become their enemy, He fought against them."

There are different Spirits of God Hizikayah... This one " the Comforter/Holy Ghost " was sent after Yahshua left earth as stated by Yahshua

Isaiah 11
2And the spirit of the YAHWEH shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the YAHWEH;

 

[Hizikyah]

I used to think the same thing, because well, I was taught that, but I looked into it a few years back and If I remember the holy Spirit came on people about 90 times recorded in the OT, here are a few examples:

Numbers 11:17 “Then I will come down and speak with you there, and I will take of the Spirit who is upon you, and will put Him upon them; and they shall bear the burden of the people with you, so that you will not bear it all alone.

1 Samuel 16:14 Now the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord terrorized him.

1 Samuel 16:13 Then Samuel took the horn of oil and anointed him in the midst of his brothers; and the Spirit of the Lord came mightily upon David from that day forward. And Samuel arose and went to Ramah.

Numbers 11:25 Then the Lord came down in the cloud and spoke to him; and He took of the Spirit who was upon him and placed Him upon the seventy elders. And when the Spirit rested upon them, they prophesied. But they did not do it again.

Isaiah 63:10, "But they rebelled And grieved His Holy Spirit; Therefore He turned Himself to become their enemy, He fought against them."

There are different Spirits of God Hizikayah... This one " the Comforter/Holy Ghost " was sent after Yahshua left earth as stated by Yahshua

Isaiah 11
2And the spirit of the YAHWEH shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the YAHWEH;

It does say in those Scriptures,

"Spirit of the Lord "

"Spirit of the Lord"

"His Holy Spirit"

 

[Brainfreeze]

It does say in those Scriptures,

"Spirit of the Lord "

"Spirit of the Lord"

"His Holy Spirit"

There all Holy ... and there all His..

 

[Brainfreeze]

How do we know this ones different ? Because if it were already present then YAHWEH wouldn't need to send it upon Yahshua's resurrection .. " in His name " The helper, the comforter, the Holy Spirit/Holy Ghost ...


Yahshua Promises the Holy Spirit
…25"These things I have spoken to you while abiding with you. 26"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.




…6"But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart. 7"But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.

 

[Karraster]

Ok I don't know if this was sarcasm or sincerity here.. but that part of Isaiah, I think is talking of some gentile preacher maybe " the one in the middle " as for the pig and mice, I don't eat detestable stuff, my favorites are fish, roast beef, and maybe chicken, veggies and fruit. As Romans 14 states though, I don't hate someone for eating it.. If they like it, fine. I'm not under the laws of Moses, I'm under stiffer laws of Yahshua " love my enemies " type of law...

Romans 14

1Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. 2For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. 3Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. 4Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

John 6

32Then Yahshua said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. 33For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

I assure you I am serious. I was curious about how one mitigates prophecy, and thought you could explain. I thanked you for your reply, and thank you again for further thoughts on this. I don't know what else to say...it is prophecy for the last days, and Messiah said He did not come to abolish the instructions or prophets, but fulfill what was written of Him...so my understanding is this particular prophecy..it is yet to be fulfilled, just like the Fall Feasts are yet to be fulfilled. I'm still studying all this out, trying to find truth.

 

[Hizikyah]

How do we know this ones different ? Because if it were already present then YAHWEH wouldn't need to send it upon Yahshua's resurrection .. " in His name " The helper, the comforter, the Holy Spirit/Holy Ghost ...


Yahshua Promises the Holy Spirit
…25"These things I have spoken to you while abiding with you. 26"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.




…6"But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart. 7"But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.

I wold, IMO think that is possibly true, but it is not written so it is opinion, as is this next thought; my personal idea here is taht the "Comforter" couldnt be outtside Messiah while He was on earth because THAT'S WHAT WAS GUIDING HIM! IMO, doing a COMPLETE work in Yahshua while He was in the flesh. So when He left earth, it could then be given to man, again 90 times or so the holy Spirit came upon men in the OT, but yes they are not individually described. A study of the 7 Spirits of Yah may be in order! The first place I learned about them was from Enoch's prophecy of the clear and dark waters, 7 and 7.... interesting stuff, but Im not well studied in that area so, if you know anything about that Im interested to hear.

 

[Mitspa]

So you take the position of judge and declare my level of obedience, I post the Messiah's words all you do is post slanderous accusations in which you still have not quoted a single time where I partook in there actions you claim of me.

Lawless condition?

I declare before the universe that these words are true:

Mattithyah 22:36-40, "Teacher, what is the greatest commandment in the Law? Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

No Hiz ...im trying to make a biblical point about biblical standards You need to find the contract with God that you can keep...That contract is written in the Blood of Jesus...not engraved in stones Now if you are saying you keep the commandments...and already admitted you don't...that makes you a transgression of the law...not a keeper of the law...So you are trying to promote a covenant you cant keep...Im trying to get you to see the covenant that Jesus made for you, that keeps you !

 

[Mitspa]

I assure you I am serious. I was curious about how one mitigates prophecy, and thought you could explain. I thanked you for your reply, and thank you again for further thoughts on this. I don't know what else to say...it is prophecy for the last days, and Messiah said He did not come to abolish the instructions or prophets, but fulfill what was written of Him...so my understanding is this particular prophecy..it is yet to be fulfilled, just like the Fall Feasts are yet to be fulfilled. I'm still studying all this out, trying to find truth.

If you had heard the law and the prophets you would know who He is...because they spoke of Him...if your seeing a prophecy to be fulfilled....Get into Christ

 

[Chopper]

What was done with the law written in those stones?
They were written in your heart, meaning you have even less excuse to disobey them.

 

[Mitspa]

What was done with the law written in those stones?
They were written in your heart, meaning you have even less excuse to disobey them.

It was covered over by the Mercy Seat... and the Blood of Christ was put over it ...and paid the price in full... Its called the ministry of death and condemnation! you really want to teach that to others?

2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

 

[Karraster]

If you had heard the law and the prophets you would know who He is...because they spoke of Him...if your seeing a prophecy to be fulfilled....Get into Christ

as far as i know..He hasn't come for the bride..so yes, there are more prophecies to come true at a future date.

 

[Brainfreeze]

What was done with the law written in those stones?
They were written in your heart, meaning you have even less excuse to disobey them.

He stiffened those commandment... Didn't do away with them...


Matthew 22:34-40

34 But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together.
35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


Love Your Enemies
…43"You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.' 44"But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,

John 13:34-35

34 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

 

[Chopper]

as far as i know..He hasn't come for the bride..so yes, there are more prophecies to come true at a future date.

There are still prophets who walk this earth, and you are correct, as more light will shine forth as we draw closer to that great day.

 

[Hizikyah]

He stiffened those commandment... Didn't do away with them...


Matthew 22:34-40

34 But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together.
35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


Love Your Enemies
…43"You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.' 44"But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,

John 13:34-35

34 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

Mattithyah 5:43-44, "You have heard(oral law/talmud) that it has been said: You will love your brother--but hate your enemies; But I say to you; Love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do well to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you."

Most people think Yahshua is rebuking "OT", not at all, nowhere in Yahweh's words is this hate taught. This hate comes from the Talmud of the pharisees. Yahweh's words says:

Yahweh taught:

Leviticus 19:34, "The stranger living with you must be treated as one of your native-born, and you shall love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt. I am Yahweh."

Pharisees taught:

Talmud - Mas. Sanhedrin 57a
‘For murder, whether of a Cuthean by a Cuthean, or of an Israelite by a Cuthean, punishment is incurred; but of a Cuthean by an Israelite, there is no death penalty.

 

[Mitspa]

as far as i know..He hasn't come for the bride..so yes, there are more prophecies to come true at a future date.

Ok ..I don't see a bride there...you cant take a unclear prophecy to debate sound and clear doctrine...can you?

 

[Mitspa]

He stiffened those commandment... Didn't do away with them...


Matthew 22:34-40

34 But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together.
35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


Love Your Enemies
…43"You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.' 44"But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,

John 13:34-35

34 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

He took us out of legalism the "letter" of the law and gave us love....which fulfills all the law... Yopu cant be under the Old testament and the new...you cant justify your self by the law and be justified by faith in Christ. So Christ did not just add more rules...he took the law (stone) out of the way..so we could by love serve one another.

 

[Hizikyah]

He took us out of legalism the "letter" of the law and gave us love....which fulfills all the law... Yopu cant be under the Old testament and the new...you cant justify your self by the law and be justified by faith in Christ. So Christ did not just add more rules...he took the law (stone) out of the way..so we could by love serve one another.

Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them."

Yeremyah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."

 

[Chopper]

Hmm... that's strange... is not the ten commandments the very core of showing love for Yahuwah and for one another?

If I love you, I will not lie, steal from you, covet what you have, murder you, ect...

"on these two commandments hang all the law"

1st 4 commandments between us and the Father
last 6 between us from one to another.

 

[Mitspa]

Hmm... that's strange... is not the ten commandments the very core of showing love for Yahuwah and for one another?

If I love you, I will not lie, steal from you, covet what you have, murder you, ect...

"on these two commandments hang all the law"

1st 4 commandments between us and the Father
last 6 between us from one to another.

Right Chopper ...then we have the rest of the New testament that teaches us that the law is not made to justify but to condemn all men... the "letter" legalism itself produces sinful lust...and then we are taught that we must be justified by faith and not the law...

 

[Mitspa]

Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them."

Yeremyah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."

Yes that's Gods Spirit and Gods love...not the law of Moses...not the written code of law