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K
To "sin" implies that one is under the law.
But Christians are not under the law (Rom 8:2,Rom 10:4, Gal 3:25, Gal 5:18, 1Tim 1:9.)
And as whatever the law says it says to one under it (Rom 3:19) then it's clear that Christians cannot be charged with sin, as scripture itself confirms (Rom 8:33, 1John 3:9, 1Pet 4:1).
Note also Jude 1:3 for context, how they were exhorted to contend for the faith (believing on Jesus)
What is the danger that scripture so often warns about?
The danger we're warned about is turning back to the law.
the law is not of faith, Gal 3:12
To turn back to the law is unbelief. Christ has become of no effect to such who turn back to the law, Gal 5:4.
And to turn back to the law is lasciviousness/lust for Hagar (who is symbolic for righteousness by works of the law, Gal 4:24).
Hiz. You come across as a legalist. I noted your post #2004 and as you obsess over KEEPING the law, just wondering whether you actually KEEP it?
BTW, keeping the law is to not break it ever. Just one offence makes you guilty of ALL the law, James 2:10.
Have you kept the law (perfectly) since you received Christ?
I hear so often from legalists claiming we are to keep the law, but I've always found that none of them keep it themselves.
But Christians are not under the law (Rom 8:2,Rom 10:4, Gal 3:25, Gal 5:18, 1Tim 1:9.)
And as whatever the law says it says to one under it (Rom 3:19) then it's clear that Christians cannot be charged with sin, as scripture itself confirms (Rom 8:33, 1John 3:9, 1Pet 4:1).
Note also Jude 1:3 for context, how they were exhorted to contend for the faith (believing on Jesus)
What is the danger that scripture so often warns about?
The danger we're warned about is turning back to the law.
the law is not of faith, Gal 3:12
To turn back to the law is unbelief. Christ has become of no effect to such who turn back to the law, Gal 5:4.
And to turn back to the law is lasciviousness/lust for Hagar (who is symbolic for righteousness by works of the law, Gal 4:24).
Hiz. You come across as a legalist. I noted your post #2004 and as you obsess over KEEPING the law, just wondering whether you actually KEEP it?
BTW, keeping the law is to not break it ever. Just one offence makes you guilty of ALL the law, James 2:10.
Have you kept the law (perfectly) since you received Christ?
I hear so often from legalists claiming we are to keep the law, but I've always found that none of them keep it themselves.
Well Paul would not agree with you that sin can not be charged to a believer again, and he warned Timothy about this;
[h=1]1 Timothy 5:21-22
I charge you before God and the Lord Jesus Christ and the elect angels that you observe these things without prejudice, doing nothing with partiality. 22 Do not lay hands on anyone hastily, nor share in other people’s sins; keep yourself pure.[/h]
[h=1]2 Timothy 2:19-26
Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.” But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work. Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 23 But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife. And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.[/h]
E
Why do I think that you are going somewhere with this, yes we are to obey the law of the country we live in and pay taxes, but most of all we are to stick with the morality of God that He has instilled in us which is higher than law.
E
To "sin" implies that one is under the law.
But Christians are not under the law (Rom 8:2,Rom 10:4, Gal 3:25, Gal 5:18, 1Tim 1:9.)
And as whatever the law says it says to one under it (Rom 3:19) then it's clear that Christians cannot be charged with sin, as scripture itself confirms (Rom 8:33, 1John 3:9, 1Pet 4:1).
Note also Jude 1:3 for context, how they were exhorted to contend for the faith (believing on Jesus)
What is the danger that scripture so often warns about?
The danger we're warned about is turning back to the law.
the law is not of faith, Gal 3:12
To turn back to the law is unbelief. Christ has become of no effect to such who turn back to the law, Gal 5:4.
And to turn back to the law is lasciviousness/lust for Hagar (who is symbolic for righteousness by works of the law, Gal 4:24).
Hiz. You come across as a legalist. I noted your post #2004 and as you obsess over KEEPING the law, just wondering whether you actually KEEP it?
BTW, keeping the law is to not break it ever. Just one offence makes you guilty of ALL the law, James 2:10.
Have you kept the law (perfectly) since you received Christ?
I hear so often from legalists claiming we are to keep the law, but I've always found that none of them keep it themselves.
But Christians are not under the law (Rom 8:2,Rom 10:4, Gal 3:25, Gal 5:18, 1Tim 1:9.)
And as whatever the law says it says to one under it (Rom 3:19) then it's clear that Christians cannot be charged with sin, as scripture itself confirms (Rom 8:33, 1John 3:9, 1Pet 4:1).
Note also Jude 1:3 for context, how they were exhorted to contend for the faith (believing on Jesus)
What is the danger that scripture so often warns about?
The danger we're warned about is turning back to the law.
the law is not of faith, Gal 3:12
To turn back to the law is unbelief. Christ has become of no effect to such who turn back to the law, Gal 5:4.
And to turn back to the law is lasciviousness/lust for Hagar (who is symbolic for righteousness by works of the law, Gal 4:24).
Hiz. You come across as a legalist. I noted your post #2004 and as you obsess over KEEPING the law, just wondering whether you actually KEEP it?
BTW, keeping the law is to not break it ever. Just one offence makes you guilty of ALL the law, James 2:10.
Have you kept the law (perfectly) since you received Christ?
I hear so often from legalists claiming we are to keep the law, but I've always found that none of them keep it themselves.
K
Wiil we be rewarded for works or faith in the cross ?
M
1Co 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
Ro 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
Folks who tells others not to sin and then teach the law are ignorant of the truths of the bible.
Ro 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
Folks who tells others not to sin and then teach the law are ignorant of the truths of the bible.
E
They overcame by the blood of the lamb and the word of their testimony. It is our testimony that will reward us and not how we cut the grass at the church. We win souls by preaching the cross and it is not us but the Holy Spirit. The meek shall inherit the Earth.
E
1Co 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
Ro 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
Folks who tells others not to sin and then teach the law are ignorant of the truths of the bible.
Ro 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
Folks who tells others not to sin and then teach the law are ignorant of the truths of the bible.
What is the purpose of grace ?
K
1Co 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
Ro 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
Folks who tells others not to sin and then teach the law are ignorant of the truths of the bible.
Ro 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
Folks who tells others not to sin and then teach the law are ignorant of the truths of the bible.
H
this is what happens in our day to day life...we konw that God wiped away our sins when we repented...but as we live our lives if we find sin we must confess them and turn from them....that is repenting...not laying foundation..
And remember that whatever the law says it says to those under it (Rom 3:19).
But all who believe on Jesus have died to the law, Rom 7:4. Christians are NOT under the law hence we cannot be charged with its transgression.
Thus Christians repented of those former dead works of self righteousness and we no longer turn back to the law and hope to repent again as that would be to put Christ to open shame, Heb 6:6.
This is the foundation of repentance that we move on from.
but Kenneth is stuck on this repentance, out of ignorance I suspect.
newbirth;1838302
1 John 1:8-10King James Version (KJV)
[SUP said:
8 [/SUP]If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us...
[SUP]9 [/SUP]If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us...
newbirth;1838302
what makes you say a christian cannot be charged with sin??? you are saying you can sin and it will not be charged to you?...where does the scripture teach that? Then why is this scripture in the bible...
1 John 5:15-17King James Version (KJV)
[SUP said:
15 [/SUP]And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death...
[SUP]16 [/SUP]If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death...
As for 1John 5, the sin unto death is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, which we all know will not be forgiven.
The sin not unto death is unbelief which is not so final as non-believers still have opportunity to receive Christ. Christians pray for the lost and God hears us.
newbirth;1838302
you cannot abide in Christ with sin....you are dead to sin as long as you do not sin....
Romans 6:1-3King James Version (KJV)
6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin said:
2 [/SUP]God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?.
As for Rom 6:2 I agree with it. When we receive Christ we've died to sin. Satan, the accuser, can no longer charge us with sin, Rev 12:9-11,Rom 8:33.
E
Hey Mitspa, lets grab some coffee and rest a minute, cause this can go on forever, They cannot see the cross and how it sets them free and bewilders me that they would love to be slaves to the law which they cannot keep. If they could then Jesus died in vain. They just cannot accept Christ and claim to be christian.
E
Read Heb 6:1 again. That foundation was repentance from dead works of self righteousness through works of the law.
And remember that whatever the law says it says to those under it (Rom 3:19).
But all who believe on Jesus have died to the law, Rom 7:4. Christians are NOT under the law hence we cannot be charged with its transgression.
Thus Christians repented of those former dead works of self righteousness and we no longer turn back to the law and hope to repent again as that would be to put Christ to open shame, Heb 6:6.
This is the foundation of repentance that we move on from.
but Kenneth is stuck on this repentance, out of ignorance I suspect.
read 1John 1 from the beginning and note it's evangelical context. It declares eternal life (believe on Jesus, John 3:16) so that those it addresses may also have fellowship.
I've quoted many scriptures confirming that Christians cannot sin (Rom 8:33, 1John 3:9, 1Pet 4:1, 1Pet 4:18, Gal 2:15, John 8:34-36, Rom 6:2, Rom 6:7.)
As for 1John 5, the sin unto death is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, which we all know will not be forgiven.
The sin not unto death is unbelief which is not so final as non-believers still have opportunity to receive Christ. Christians pray for the lost and God hears us.
What you suggest above seems like a see-saw where you are in and out of righteousness depending on whether you obey the law perfectly on any given day.
As for Rom 6:2 I agree with it. When we receive Christ we've died to sin. Satan, the accuser, can no longer charge us with sin, Rev 12:9-11,Rom 8:33.
And remember that whatever the law says it says to those under it (Rom 3:19).
But all who believe on Jesus have died to the law, Rom 7:4. Christians are NOT under the law hence we cannot be charged with its transgression.
Thus Christians repented of those former dead works of self righteousness and we no longer turn back to the law and hope to repent again as that would be to put Christ to open shame, Heb 6:6.
This is the foundation of repentance that we move on from.
but Kenneth is stuck on this repentance, out of ignorance I suspect.
read 1John 1 from the beginning and note it's evangelical context. It declares eternal life (believe on Jesus, John 3:16) so that those it addresses may also have fellowship.
I've quoted many scriptures confirming that Christians cannot sin (Rom 8:33, 1John 3:9, 1Pet 4:1, 1Pet 4:18, Gal 2:15, John 8:34-36, Rom 6:2, Rom 6:7.)
As for 1John 5, the sin unto death is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, which we all know will not be forgiven.
The sin not unto death is unbelief which is not so final as non-believers still have opportunity to receive Christ. Christians pray for the lost and God hears us.
What you suggest above seems like a see-saw where you are in and out of righteousness depending on whether you obey the law perfectly on any given day.
As for Rom 6:2 I agree with it. When we receive Christ we've died to sin. Satan, the accuser, can no longer charge us with sin, Rev 12:9-11,Rom 8:33.
H
1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us."
K
Yeah read this and read that, and do this and do that, what difference does it make? Your law defeats the cross and makes it of no account. Jesus the Son of God was beaten and His beard plucked out and all his bones were out of joint and nailed to a cross and died to set you free, but you would rather choose law. The OT saints longed for this day, because they failed the law and knew that no man could keep it, the psalms say it over and over. If you want law then be judged by it as you will be, I choose the blood of Christ. Because when I see the blood I will pass over you. Keep your law I don't want it, I choose the blood.
E
I assume from this answer that you don't keep the law.
6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
K
You misunderstand.
I never said what you claim above.
If you read back through my posts you'll see that I said Christians repented of their dead works of self-righteousness.
Read 1John 1 from the beginning and note it's evangelical context.
Note that it declares eternal life so that others may have fellowship.
You seem to be suggesting that Christ's sacrifice for our sin was no more effective than the yearly sacrifice of bulls and goats?
But, Christ's sacrifice set us free from sin, John 8:36.
Thus Christians have "ceased from sin" (1Pet 4:1), we "cannot sin" (1John 3:9).
BTW, a reminder that this refers to our position in Christ. It's not saying we're physically perfect.
You misunderstand.
2Pet 1:9 refers to those who once were Christians, cleansed by the blood, but they then turned back to the law for righteousness.
Whatever the law says, it says to those under it, Rom 3:19.
To turn back to the law is to make yourself a transgressor/sinner.
Gal 2:18
For if I build again the things which I destroyed (righteousness by works of the law), I MAKE MYSELF a transgressor/.Sinner
And Rom 3:25 confirms what I've shown in scripture that once we receive Christ we've CEASED from sin, 1Pet 4:1.
I never said what you claim above.
If you read back through my posts you'll see that I said Christians repented of their dead works of self-righteousness.
Read 1John 1 from the beginning and note it's evangelical context.
Note that it declares eternal life so that others may have fellowship.
You seem to be suggesting that Christ's sacrifice for our sin was no more effective than the yearly sacrifice of bulls and goats?
But, Christ's sacrifice set us free from sin, John 8:36.
Thus Christians have "ceased from sin" (1Pet 4:1), we "cannot sin" (1John 3:9).
BTW, a reminder that this refers to our position in Christ. It's not saying we're physically perfect.
You misunderstand.
2Pet 1:9 refers to those who once were Christians, cleansed by the blood, but they then turned back to the law for righteousness.
Whatever the law says, it says to those under it, Rom 3:19.
To turn back to the law is to make yourself a transgressor/sinner.
Gal 2:18
For if I build again the things which I destroyed (righteousness by works of the law), I MAKE MYSELF a transgressor/.Sinner
And Rom 3:25 confirms what I've shown in scripture that once we receive Christ we've CEASED from sin, 1Pet 4:1.
If you are still walking in sin though thinking that they can not be imputed on you any more, then you are still living a life in iniquity for those sins that have not been confessed for forgiveness. The bible says both you have to produce works, and produce fruit worthy of repentance. If you are still continuing to walk in sins that have not been confessed for forgiveness, and have not turned from stopping those sins letting the Holy Spirit help you do it. Then the bible says your repentance was not a true repentance.
Read 1st and 2nd Timothy as he is a believer yet Paul still warns him over and over again about sin can still be imputed on him and make him impure again. By what you and Mitspa say that is impossible, Paul disagrees with the two of you.
E
Yeah read this and read that, and do this and do that, what difference does it make? Your law defeats the cross and makes it of no account. Jesus the Son of God was beaten and His beard plucked out and all his bones were out of joint and nailed to a cross and died to set you free, but you would rather choose law. The OT saints longed for this day, because they failed the law and knew that no man could keep it, the psalms say it over and over. If you want law then be judged by it as you will be, I choose the blood of Christ. Because when I see the blood I will pass over you. Keep your law I don't want it, I choose the blood.
H
if you interpretation of not under law means ignore law then christians are free to kill because they are not under law
Christians keep Christ's commandments, which are to believe on him, and to love one another, 1John 3:23.
The law however, determines righteousness by works. This is unbelief in Jesus.
H
Luke 1:5-6King James Version (KJV)
5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.