Dietary Law?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Dietary Law: Yes or No?

  • Yes, Law is still in place

    Votes: 6 37.5%
  • No, I can eat what I want

    Votes: 10 62.5%

  • Total voters
    16
  • Poll closed .
E

ELECT

Guest
It was "becoming" obsolete until the destruction of Jerusalem when it "became" obsolete
and vanished away.
the old covenant deal with the animal sacrifices etc thus 70 AD saw the end of that system since there was no more temple for the leviticus priesthood please not the ten comanmmenst and the dietry laws were wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy before that in Genesis
 
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
Got a scripture for that?
Lk 22:20; 2Co 3:6; Heb 8:6, 9:15

Are you saying the Old Covenant is not now obsolete and we now have two covenants in place,
the Old and the New?
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
the old covenant deal with the animal sacrifices etc thus 70 AD saw the end of that system since there was no more temple for the leviticus priesthood please not the ten comanmmenst and the dietry laws were wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy before that in Genesis
Uh, the animal sacrifices were not a part of the Old Covenant originally.

Exo 19:4 Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.
Exo 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
Exo 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
Exo 19:7 And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the LORD commanded him.
Exo 19:8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.

Notice that the sacrifices were not added at this time...

Deu 5:22 These words the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.

Jer 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:
Jer 7:23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
Lk 22:20; 2Co 3:6; Heb 8:6, 9:15

Are you saying the Old Covenant is not now obsolete and we now have two covenants in place,
the Old and the New?
The Old Covenant will not be completely obsolete until Christ returns. Israel is still blinded and will be until Christ returns and establishes the Kingdom on earth. Until that time, those whom He has called are under the New Covenant. The majority of the world today is not under either Covenant.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
The Old Covenant will not be completely obsolete until Christ returns. Israel is still blinded and will be until Christ returns and establishes the Kingdom on earth. Until that time, those whom He has called are under the New Covenant. The majority of the world today is not under either Covenant.
At this time, through no fault of their own (they are blinded), they turn to God in the only way they know how.
 
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
Uh, the animal sacrifices were not a part of the Old Covenant originally.

Exo 19:4 Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.
Exo 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
The only covenant in effect at Ex 19:5 was the Abrahamic covenant.
The Old Covenant is the Mosaic (Sinaitic) Covenant.
 
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
The Old Covenant will not be completely obsolete until Christ returns.
That there are two covenants in place, both the Old and the New, is contra NT teaching.
 
E

ELECT

Guest
The only covenant in effect at Ex 19:5 was the Abrahamic covenant.
The Old Covenant is the Mosaic (Sinaitic) Covenant.
Is circumsion part of the Moses or Abrahamic covenant ?
 
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
Is circumsion part of the Moses or Abrahamic covenant ?
Circumcision was the sign of the Abrahamic covenant, and also included in the legislation
of the Mosaic covenant which was added (Gal 3:19; Ro 5:20) to the Abrahamic covenant.
 
Last edited:
E

ELECT

Guest
Circumcision was the sign of the Abrahamic covenant, and also included in the legislation
of the Mosaic covenant which was added (Gal 3:19; Ro 5:20) to the Abrahamic covenant.
Is circumcision part of the new covenant ? Why or Why not ?
 
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
Is circumcision part of the new covenant ? Why or Why not ?
Spiritual circumcision of the heart is part of the New Covenant.

As with the Abrahamic covenant of Ge 15:9-21, there are no conditions of performance
for the New Covenant, including physical circumcision.
 
E

ELECT

Guest
Spiritual circumcision of the heart is part of the New Covenant.

As with the Abrahamic covenant of Ge 15:9-21, there are no conditions of performance
for the New Covenant, including physical circumcision.
circumcision has always been part of all the covenants

Genesis 17:24
And Abraham was ninety years old and nine, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin.

Deuteronomy 10:16
Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.
 
E

ELECT

Guest
Spiritual circumcision of the heart is part of the New Covenant.

As with the Abrahamic covenant of Ge 15:9-21, there are no conditions of performance
for the New Covenant, including physical circumcision.
What is the book of galatians about what law ?
 
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
What is the book of galatians about what law ?
What is the whole book?

It is about the Mosaic law.

Man is justified by faith in Jesus Christ--by nothing less and nothing more.

Man is not sanctified by legalistic works but by the obedience that comes from faith in God's work for him, in him and through him by the grace and power of Christ and the Holy Spirit.
 
Sep 16, 2014
1,666
100
48
Yes, the hand washing ritual was added by the religious leaders. Interesting to read the Talmud, as it gives insight as to how outrageous it seemed in their eyes (Leaders) how Messiah cut no slack, and made a clear distinction between His Father's Laws (Torah) and theirs (Talmud).

I think where our disagreement is, you think the Church replaces Israel, and/or there are 2 bodies of believers with 2 sets of rules? Pardon if I'm wrong there.

I don't think so. I think there is 1 body of believers, and that must be grafted into the Messiah, and to hear and obey all He said, and to be as like Him as we can. I think He came to restore what the Almighty intended for us, as the office of priest had corrupted..and today is no different. Though the Son of Almighty came as a man to instruct us, still today many do not care to find out what He said to do.
I know the Replacement Theory is unbiblical. The House of Israel and the Church are separate "houses".

The "tree", the true Vine, had for natural branches the House of Israel.
The branches became corrupted, brought forth wild grapes.
The Father God is the Husbandman over the VIne, pruning off bad branches.
The branches were all pruned off.
Jesus came to put branches on the Vine.
Israel refused to take part, except the 11 apostles, who were all Jews.
Gentiles accepted and were grafted in to the true vine.
Gentiles must not brag, as God is able to graft natural branches back on.
Gentiles can be pruned off if not producing the expected fruit.
But none can be part of the true Vine without abiding in Christ Jesus.

John 15:1-10 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]
I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

[SUP]9 [/SUP] As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.


Another interesting part of that is verse 10. One abides in Christ by keeping Jesus' commandments. Like Jesus, as a true Jew kept the Father's commandments all his days, so must his disciples keep Jesus' commandments all our days living in his love.

If Jesus really meant all those commandments were the Mosaic laws, then that verse would read more like If you keep the laws of Moses, you will abide in my love; even as I kept the laws of Moses and the 10 commandments at the very least, and I abide in the Father's love.

Doesn't fit. If ye keep my Father's commandments, ye shall abide in my love....
Nope. The word for Father isn't in there.

There are obviously two sets of commandments, because there are two very distinct covenants. Jesus kept the Father's commandments, and we keep Jesus' commandments as faithfully as Jesus did. We abide in Jesus' love like Jesus abode in the Father's love.

The Jews failed to abide in the Father's love, and rejected Jesus' love.

Jesus came to restore mankind, not just Jews, to the relationship God has wanted ever since before He made Adam.
He didn't come to patch up the Mosaic Covenant, but to offer the New Covenant of grace through faith in Jesus Christ.
Grace is not like having the Holy Spirit in us (Christ in us). Grace is God's plan for man that is better than sacrifice and laws requiring obedience to enter into his grace plan. He chose to offer salvation by a way that humanity considers to be foolish. The law of Moses could not nor should not be taken as foolish. It was a very serious plan. it's purpose was to prepare man for the "foolishness" of Christ. How precious is this passage....

please read it all who made it this far in this post.
1 Corinthians 1:17-31 (KJV) [SUP]17 [/SUP] For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
[SUP]21 [/SUP] For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
[SUP]23 [/SUP] But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
[SUP]24 [/SUP] But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
[SUP]26 [/SUP] For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
[SUP]27 [/SUP] But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
[SUP]28 [/SUP] And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
[SUP]29 [/SUP] That no flesh should glory in his presence.
[SUP]30 [/SUP] But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
[SUP]31 [/SUP] That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
 
P

passinthru

Guest
Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.[SUP]2[/SUP] For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
[SUP]3[/SUP] Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
[SUP]4[/SUP] Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
[SUP]5[/SUP] One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
[SUP]6[/SUP] He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
[SUP]7[/SUP] For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
[SUP]8[/SUP] For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
[SUP]9[/SUP] For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
[SUP]10[/SUP] But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
[SUP]11[/SUP] For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
[SUP]12[/SUP] So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
[SUP]13[/SUP] Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
[SUP]14[/SUP] I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
[SUP]15[/SUP] But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
[SUP]16[/SUP] Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
[SUP]17[/SUP] For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
[SUP]18[/SUP] For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
[SUP]19[/SUP] Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
[SUP]20[/SUP] For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
[SUP]21[/SUP] It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
[SUP]22[/SUP] Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
[SUP]23[/SUP] And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
 
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
I know the Replacement Theory is unbiblical.
The House of Israel and the Church are separate "houses".

The "tree", the true Vine, had for natural branches the House of Israel.
The branches became corrupted, brought forth wild grapes.
The Father God is the Husbandman over the VIne, pruning off bad branches.
The branches were all pruned off.
Jesus came to put branches on the Vine.
Israel refused to take part, except the 11 apostles, who were all Jews.
Gentiles accepted and were grafted in to the true vine.
Gentiles must not brag, as God is able to graft natural branches back on.
Gentiles can be pruned off if not producing the expected fruit.
But none can be part of the true Vine without abiding in Christ Jesus.
But it's all one and the same tree/vine.
 
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
Elin said:
Spiritual circumcision of the heart is part of the New Covenant.

As with the Abrahamic covenant of Ge 15:9-21, there are no conditions of performance
for the New Covenant, including physical circumcision.

circumcision has always been part of all the covenants

Genesis 17:24
And Abraham was ninety years old and nine, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin.

Deuteronomy 10:16
Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.
That's what I said.

There was no physical circumcision in the covenant of Ge 15:9-21 or the New Covenant.
 
Last edited:
Sep 16, 2014
1,666
100
48
But it's all one and the same tree/vine.
Yes, thank God one Vine, but some changes in branches and fruit. The day is coming when that tree sill have all good spiritual branches and good spiritual fruit.