It doesn't matter if you lived like a saint. Your doctrine places blood on your own hands for teaching others that they can abide in unrepentant sin with the thinking that they are still saved (Which is a direct violation of 1 John 1:9 and 1 John 1:7). In other words, Jesus said we will know false prophets by their fruits. There are testimonies of those who have came out of OSAS who felt trapped to a lifestyle of sin because they were taught that there was no real lasting eternal consequence if they did sin.
Can you be out of Fellowship with God and still be Saved?
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I am not advocating God will immediately leave a person as soon as they sin in every case. For obviously if God knowss that a person will repent later that night, it is quite possible that He may not leave that person. But you have to realize that 1 John 1:9 does not lie, though. It says if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 5:17 says all unrighteousness is sin. So you have to confess in order to be cleansed of sin. It's what the Bible says plainly.
I repented of my sins and accepted Jesus Christ as my Savior as a part of a gospel tract. I was saved in the moment I accepted Jesus Christ. I did not need to go out and find a bunch of people and a pool of water and wait so as to be dunked in order to be saved. I knew I was already saved the moment I accepted the Lord. It was like a light went on when I accepted Him. For whosever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. I didn't even know about baptism back then. I just knew about Jesus Christ. I was so excited to be saved and I wanted others to know about Jesus. I told others about him with the Bible and spread gospel tracts around as much as I could. I later was baptized in a church many years later. I did it as an outward public declaration of my faith and as an answer to a good conscience towards God. I did not get baptized to put away the filth of the flesh (sin) as Peter says.
K
The thing you do is you keep placing born again and saved at the very first second one choose to accept Jesus.
By that understanding it would still and definitely make OSAS false, as the Lord said until you repent you will still perish. Plus the Lord said unless you forgive others, you will not be forgiven. So no amount of repentance or confession will help you if you refuse to forgive others.
Christ is of no effect to those who have no love, mercy, and forgiveness toward those who do not show it to others.
The whole teaching that one is saved from day one, and no matter how they walk will change that is false teaching. The Lord gives multiple situations that will take one out of a saved state, and not leading to salvation.
He gives trials, tribulations, false teaching, being disobedient to His word, and a lack of love toward others to name a few that He says will not lead to salvation; or if fall away do to these will not lead to salvation.
One, I didn't know about the command when I first got saved. Second, 1 John 5:16 says there are sins that lead unto death and sins that do not lead unto death. Peter makes it clear in 1 Peter 3:21 that baptism is not for the putting away of the filth of the flesh. 2 Corinthians 7:1 imples that the filth of the flesh is in reference to sin. Titus 3:5 says, "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Three, when I renewed my faith, and learned of baptism and it's importance by other believers I was striving to find the right body of believers (church) to do so with. When I found my church I felt comfotable at, I then became baptized. So you judge that which you do not understand. Paul says he came not to baptize. Why don't you believe him? Baptism is an outward picture or symbol. It is done as an answer towards a good conscience towards God. Not for the putting away of the filth of the flesh (sin). Baptism was a very powerful experience for me spiritually. But I did not do it so as to be saved, though. I was already saved by God's grace.
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K
Yes but Peter also says that it still saves, as it is part of the believers salvation process.
That scripture in 1 John referring to sins that lead unto death, and sins that do not lead to death is not saying some sins are acceptable to do and others are not.
What it is saying is that a born again believers sins will not lead them to death, because they will repent and confess them to be covered by the Lords blood given remission. The sins that lead to death are those that a person can not give up, and want to continue to walk in; as in wanting to stay in darkness/unrighteous deeds.
I am glad to here that you then became baptized, and Paul was just saying that was not what he was called to do. His main purpose was to preach the gospel, that scripture from Paul by no means cancels out baptism. As he himself did baptize in the book of Acts, and even stated in his epistles that through baptism is how one is born again by being buried into His death by the water immersion and then rising into a new spiritual mindset as a symbol of His resurrection.
Anyways, we know that Antinomianism (OSAS) in many cases tends to lead people into being enslaved to their sin and not set free from it. How so? Just check out these testimonies below.
Antinomianism Audio Testimonies:
Testimonies of former eternal security believers
Suicide & Antinomianism:
A tragic story of an OSAS believer.
A Pastor's Testimony on Antinomianism:
A testimony about OSAS by a Pastor's wife.
Hooked on Sin & Antinomianism:
Out Of Darkness | NO Eternal Security | Christian Testimony
Antinomianism Audio Testimonies:
Testimonies of former eternal security believers
Suicide & Antinomianism:
A tragic story of an OSAS believer.
A Pastor's Testimony on Antinomianism:
A testimony about OSAS by a Pastor's wife.
Hooked on Sin & Antinomianism:
Out Of Darkness | NO Eternal Security | Christian Testimony
B
You were cleansed from all sin when you believed the gospel and trusted in the cross of Christ, but you did not confess all your sins. You may have wrapped them all up together and said, ' Have mercy upon me a sinner' as the publican did in (Luke 18:13,14) and he went home justified.
There are sins of ignorance (Lev 4) you did not confess including sins of your youth ( sins that involved the imaginations of your heart you did not confess, sins of the tongue you did not confess and if you say you have confessed all these things you have made yourself a liar and now you have the sin of lying to confess. And... how about theses sins in James 4:17 and in Rom 14:23? I can go on and show you about the years of sin before the law was given and how God related to those years in (Rom 5:5:12,13).
12 Therefore, as sin came into the world through one man, and death as the result of sin, so death spread to all men, [no one being able to stop it or to escape its power] because all men sinned.
13 [To be sure] sin was in the world before ever the Law was given, but sin is not charged to men’s account where there is no law [to transgress].
How was it that sin was not put on man's account before the law was given? Were these men responsible for their sin before the law was given? Now that Christ has come and put away sin, not imputing (or putting on man's account) their trespasses unto them in (2Cor 5:19) how is man judged according to his sins? I would suggest to you that this is where many of you have a problem because it has not been revealed to you by the Spirit through the written word, though is has been demonstrated to you through the death, burial and resurrection of Christ.
Here is something else for you to wrap your mind around in (Psalm 25:6-8) ...
6 Remember, O Lord, Your tender mercy and loving-kindness; for they have been ever from of old.
7 Remember not the sins (the lapses and frailties) of my youth or my transgressions; according to Your mercy and steadfast love remember me, for Your goodness’ sake, O Lord.
8 Good and upright is the Lord; therefore will He instruct sinners in [His] way.
There are sins of ignorance (Lev 4) you did not confess including sins of your youth ( sins that involved the imaginations of your heart you did not confess, sins of the tongue you did not confess and if you say you have confessed all these things you have made yourself a liar and now you have the sin of lying to confess. And... how about theses sins in James 4:17 and in Rom 14:23? I can go on and show you about the years of sin before the law was given and how God related to those years in (Rom 5:5:12,13).
12 Therefore, as sin came into the world through one man, and death as the result of sin, so death spread to all men, [no one being able to stop it or to escape its power] because all men sinned.
13 [To be sure] sin was in the world before ever the Law was given, but sin is not charged to men’s account where there is no law [to transgress].
How was it that sin was not put on man's account before the law was given? Were these men responsible for their sin before the law was given? Now that Christ has come and put away sin, not imputing (or putting on man's account) their trespasses unto them in (2Cor 5:19) how is man judged according to his sins? I would suggest to you that this is where many of you have a problem because it has not been revealed to you by the Spirit through the written word, though is has been demonstrated to you through the death, burial and resurrection of Christ.
Here is something else for you to wrap your mind around in (Psalm 25:6-8) ...
6 Remember, O Lord, Your tender mercy and loving-kindness; for they have been ever from of old.
7 Remember not the sins (the lapses and frailties) of my youth or my transgressions; according to Your mercy and steadfast love remember me, for Your goodness’ sake, O Lord.
8 Good and upright is the Lord; therefore will He instruct sinners in [His] way.
I hate to say this but you are of the opposite extreme of an OSAS proponent. Works Salvationsim is just as wrong as Antinomianism (OSAS). You are seeking to be justified by what you do instead of being justified by God's grace. For how are you saved in this moment right now? At this very second? Is it your baptism that saves you? Or is it Jesus Christ?
Besides, it is a moot point. I am already baptized. There is no need for me to get baptized again. So arguing about it is a useless excercise. I did it because it was important to me as a part of the Scriptures. But you have to ignore Scripture if you believe baptism is done for salvation. Ephesians 2:8-9 and Titus 3:5 refute the thinking that you have to do righteous works so as to be saved. Yes, we will naturally do those things as a part of being saved, but we do not do them to be saved or to maintain our salvation. Oh, and you are wrong. Paul said he came not to baptize and he meant it. This means baptism was not a requirement for salvation. If it was a requirement, he would have never said that. Just accept the truth that is within the Scriptures plainly.
Besides, it is a moot point. I am already baptized. There is no need for me to get baptized again. So arguing about it is a useless excercise. I did it because it was important to me as a part of the Scriptures. But you have to ignore Scripture if you believe baptism is done for salvation. Ephesians 2:8-9 and Titus 3:5 refute the thinking that you have to do righteous works so as to be saved. Yes, we will naturally do those things as a part of being saved, but we do not do them to be saved or to maintain our salvation. Oh, and you are wrong. Paul said he came not to baptize and he meant it. This means baptism was not a requirement for salvation. If it was a requirement, he would have never said that. Just accept the truth that is within the Scriptures plainly.
hey Jason, I botched posting earlier so i'll do it again: I was at a store a while back, picked up more things that I intended to, found a place to set them down and rearrange them. while doing so I put a can of cat food in my coat pocket, maybe for 15 sec. then took it out, went up front and paid for everything. so my question to you is would you have labeled me a thief if you saw me put the can in my pocket??
K
Its not a works based salvation if you are doing the things commanded by the Lord, else wise you could say the same thing as you about having to confess future sins to be given remission. You have to do the spiritual work of confession to receive that remission. Anything commanded by the Lord is a spiritual work, is not what qualifies as work based salvation.
A works based salvation is one that is done to earn salvation through your works.
We do not earn salvation by obeying the Lord's commands, we do it because our faith and trust is in Him. And through that our love for Him guides us to do as He commanded.
I do not understand how somebody can say their faith and love is for the Lord, but then call us legalist, works based, or false teachers for following and keeping all of His teachings out of that love. You do realize that the Lord says that those who do not love Him, do not keep all of His teachings ???
In Luke 18:9-14, the Tax Collector cried out to God to have mercy on him. It's about acknowledging that you need a Savior and that you are sorry for your sin and you do not want to continue as a sinner. Matthew 12:41 says, the men of Nineveh will stand uup with this generation at the judgment, and will condemn it because they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and behold, a greater than Jonah is here. Jonah defines repentance as turning from their evil ways (See Jonah 3:9-10).
The Law of Moses is no longer binding. It was fulfilled with Christ's death upon the cross.
As for sins in the New Testament:
There are sins that lead unto death, and sins that do not lead unto death (See 1 John 5:16).
Paul lists those sins that lead unto death several times (Such as murder, lying, lusting, idolatry, theft, and drunkenness, etc.).
In Romans chapter 5 we learn, "For by one man sin entered the world and by one man many shall be justified."
Now, under the Mosaic Law there was an accounting and those under that Law had to bring their sacrifices accordingly. Prior to the Mosaic law, the Patriarchs offered sacrifices to God, but not as a result of particular sins–not because God said to them if you do such and such sin then you have to offer such and such sacrifices. The sacrifices of the Patriarchs were offered based upon faith, not law. Which explains the context of Romans 5:13.
For sin was no doubt in the world prior to the law and so was transgression, hence there had to be some kind of law. For obviously Paul does not contradict himself here. He says that sin was not accounted until the law came. The point is that there was no law from God to this point that had been codified, that is, placed into written form. Before the Law of Moses, sin was not imputed because there was no written Law to transgress. Then how was sin imputed to those living before the written Law? Well, sin was imputed to those living before the Law because the "death of sin" was passed down to them thru Adam's disobedience (Romans 5:12, 14, 17, 18,19). Those living before the Law, were exclusively justified by faith and those who did not live by faith were condemned. In other words, the Old Testament saint living before the Law was justified by following Romans 8:1. Yes, they did not know who Christ was yet or this passage, but the Spirit of Christ was in fact within the prophets, though (1 Peter 1:10, 11).
This point of the Law in Romans 5 is made in Romans chapter 7. Compare Romans 7:8-10 with Romans 5:12-14 and Romans 5:20.
When you look at parallel passages of Psalm 25:8, you will see just how foolish your thinking is on this verse.
Psalm 25:8 - Parallel passages at Biblehub.
The Law of Moses is no longer binding. It was fulfilled with Christ's death upon the cross.
As for sins in the New Testament:
There are sins that lead unto death, and sins that do not lead unto death (See 1 John 5:16).
Paul lists those sins that lead unto death several times (Such as murder, lying, lusting, idolatry, theft, and drunkenness, etc.).
In Romans chapter 5 we learn, "For by one man sin entered the world and by one man many shall be justified."
Now, under the Mosaic Law there was an accounting and those under that Law had to bring their sacrifices accordingly. Prior to the Mosaic law, the Patriarchs offered sacrifices to God, but not as a result of particular sins–not because God said to them if you do such and such sin then you have to offer such and such sacrifices. The sacrifices of the Patriarchs were offered based upon faith, not law. Which explains the context of Romans 5:13.
For sin was no doubt in the world prior to the law and so was transgression, hence there had to be some kind of law. For obviously Paul does not contradict himself here. He says that sin was not accounted until the law came. The point is that there was no law from God to this point that had been codified, that is, placed into written form. Before the Law of Moses, sin was not imputed because there was no written Law to transgress. Then how was sin imputed to those living before the written Law? Well, sin was imputed to those living before the Law because the "death of sin" was passed down to them thru Adam's disobedience (Romans 5:12, 14, 17, 18,19). Those living before the Law, were exclusively justified by faith and those who did not live by faith were condemned. In other words, the Old Testament saint living before the Law was justified by following Romans 8:1. Yes, they did not know who Christ was yet or this passage, but the Spirit of Christ was in fact within the prophets, though (1 Peter 1:10, 11).
This point of the Law in Romans 5 is made in Romans chapter 7. Compare Romans 7:8-10 with Romans 5:12-14 and Romans 5:20.
When you look at parallel passages of Psalm 25:8, you will see just how foolish your thinking is on this verse.
Psalm 25:8 - Parallel passages at Biblehub.
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The Bible says avoid having any appearance of evil. Putting the can in your pocket appears like you are stealing it. If a security guard caught you doing so, he would have the right to arrest you no matter your intentions or excuse that you might have made. In other words, you know it does not look good to put things that is owned by the store into your pocket. It is not exactly a Christian type behavior. In addition, we are to obey the law of the land. I am sure if you asked the store manager, I am sure you would learn that it is against their policy for you to put things in your pocket that you have not purchased yet.
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It's works salvationism because if a believer dies before getting a chance to be baptized in your world view, then that person is not saved. They needed to perform a ritual in order to be saved. As if the act of getting wet somehow saves them. Read again Ephesians 2:8-9 and Titus 3:5. We are not saved by works. We are saved by God's grace. Repentance is not a work; And not doing evil things such as murder, lying, stealing, hating, etc. is not a work. Those things are passive and not proactive.
The thief was not baptized and yet he was saved.
The thief was not baptized and yet he was saved.
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For how did Paul define in one fulfilling the Law? Paul said, "Owe no man anything but to love one another: for he that loves another has fullled the law" (Romans 13:8; cf. Romans 13:9-10). So when we have fellowship with others, it is because we love them. If we help the poor, it is because we love them. If we tell other people about Christ, it is because we love them. If we forgive others, it is because we love them.
thanks for answering. now this is what is called being JUDGEMENTAL. I never had 1 thought of doing anything wrong. so see, Jason, you should not judge evil until it is evil. if I leave the can in my pocket, go up front, pay for other things, don't take it out, now I have the appearance of evil, theft. but until I do that, it is wrong to judge my act, while not a good idea, as evil. please consider this. do not put " evil" somewhere until it happens. potential sin does NOT mean sin has happened.
Wow - where on earth did you get the idea that I have refused to forgive others?
"The whole teaching that one is saved from day one, and no matter how they walk will change that is false teaching"
When you confess Jesus as Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, are you saved?
When you are saved are you born of the Spirit?
When you were first born - it was a birth from your natural parents - flesh [corruptible seed] . . Can anything make them NOT your parents?
When you are born the second time, i.e. born again of the Spirit [God calls this incorruptible seed] - What makes you think that God is any less of a 'parent' then your real parents?
Now Okay - we are born again of the Spirit - Do we still live in the flesh?
Do we still have to deal with the old man nature? Do we battle between the new man God created in us [because we want to do what is right] and the old man that is still around wanting to do things his way? That part is our walk with God. That part is our relationship to the Father. That part is our fellowship.
The new birth marks the Administration of Grace and God used three specific words that refer to our new birth and each of them ONLY appear in the epistles to the church, the body of Christ.
(1) anagennao - from the Greek prefix ana meaning "again" or "up" and gennao meaning "to give birth." It means to be given birth to again, or to be born again and it occurs in 1 Peter 1;3,23 (2) paliggenesia - from palin meaning "again" and genesis meaning "genesis" or "origin". It means to have an origin again, a new genesis and it occurs in Titus 3:5
(3) apokueo - from the Greek prefix apo meaning "away from" and kueo meaning "to be pregnant". It means "to give birth to" occurs in James 1:18
That new creation created in righteousness and holiness is actually born in you! AMAZING how great and wonderful God is . . . I have never said that I condone sin nor condone anyone who lives in sin and I do believe that it is to our advantage to live and walk in life guided by the Spirit - but sometimes we just don't cut the mustard - but we never become "UN- born".
"The whole teaching that one is saved from day one, and no matter how they walk will change that is false teaching"
When you confess Jesus as Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, are you saved?
When you are saved are you born of the Spirit?
When you were first born - it was a birth from your natural parents - flesh [corruptible seed] . . Can anything make them NOT your parents?
When you are born the second time, i.e. born again of the Spirit [God calls this incorruptible seed] - What makes you think that God is any less of a 'parent' then your real parents?
Now Okay - we are born again of the Spirit - Do we still live in the flesh?
Do we still have to deal with the old man nature? Do we battle between the new man God created in us [because we want to do what is right] and the old man that is still around wanting to do things his way? That part is our walk with God. That part is our relationship to the Father. That part is our fellowship.
The new birth marks the Administration of Grace and God used three specific words that refer to our new birth and each of them ONLY appear in the epistles to the church, the body of Christ.
(1) anagennao - from the Greek prefix ana meaning "again" or "up" and gennao meaning "to give birth." It means to be given birth to again, or to be born again and it occurs in 1 Peter 1;3,23 (2) paliggenesia - from palin meaning "again" and genesis meaning "genesis" or "origin". It means to have an origin again, a new genesis and it occurs in Titus 3:5
(3) apokueo - from the Greek prefix apo meaning "away from" and kueo meaning "to be pregnant". It means "to give birth to" occurs in James 1:18
That new creation created in righteousness and holiness is actually born in you! AMAZING how great and wonderful God is . . . I have never said that I condone sin nor condone anyone who lives in sin and I do believe that it is to our advantage to live and walk in life guided by the Spirit - but sometimes we just don't cut the mustard - but we never become "UN- born".