Dietary Law?

[Word_Swordsman]

There are animals and foods that are still unclean for human consumption.

God gave numerous instructions and examples of what foods were unclean throughout Scripture. He has given none about those foods now becoming clean. (The only potentially relevant passage has nothing to do with food at all.)

Does God change his mind frequently like men?

He gave Adam the green herbs to eat, no blood.
He gave Noah more, the herbs and everything that moves, but no blood.
He restricted Israel's diet as part of a peculiar covenant with just those Hebrew tribes (Israel), no blood.
He gave Christians all foods, except blood which has always been prohibited.

The one departure is toward Israel.

The restriction was not a health issue, else he betrayed Noah and all people on earth, and Christians, for whom meats and drinks mean nothing in the flesh or the spirit. The sheet lowered to Peter declares there is nothing unclean to God, even gentiles. It would be unholy of God to give a false vision to teach any doctrine. What he commanded to Israel as prohibited was one of the signs of Israel to the world, circumcision also being a sign.

It can't be rightly said that God called something clean, then unclean, then clean again.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

Whaaaat? Believer are allowed to eat idol meat? Whaaaaat?

Revelation 2:14, "But I have a few things against you: you have some there who hold the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, so that they might eat food sacrificed to idols and practice sexual immorality." (ESV)

Revelation 2:20, "But I have this against you, that you tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess and is teaching and seducing my servants to practice sexual immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols." (ESV)

It's the teaching/leading people to do those things, violating weak consciences, causing the weak in faith to dive into all sorts of sin due to encouragement to do so, that drew such condemnation from the Lord. I don't think anyone here has been teaching that Jews ought to eat meat offered to idols. The sin of Baalam was to encourage King Balak to tempt Israel with prostitutes and savory meat offered to idols, which is far worse than falling into such sin. It's serious error to use that scripture to say Christians ought to follow the Jew's dietary laws.

Paul made it clear such meat can't hurt anyone, as no idol has power to hurt. But if we eat meat offered to idols and that act offends anyone that sees or knows you do it or did it, then the act is sin.

There remains the main issue, that no Christian is held by God to follow the Jew's diet, nor must any Christian tolerate being judged over that, except if eating meat offered to idols, even though it does the Christian no harm. We can't use our liberty at the expense of souls lost. Will I eat everything? Yes. But I won't eat in a place of idols where offered meat is served. I would never put a ham on a table in the presence of a Jew I know observes the Mosaic diet. Will I teach a Christian the knowledge of permissions? Yes, in the course of making a strong disciple of them. It's the weak ones that are endangered until they are strengthened.

You realize no Jew observing the law would even enter a restaurant where just touching an item on a buffet would defile him. The Gentiles have their tables, the Jews theirs. I know Jews who would not consider offending Gentiles, Christian or not, over pushing the diet law. It's something they won't mention. It won't come up. Many Jews live in our area, with no kosher stores. They enter the common stores, are careful to mind their own business concerning food. It is their deal, not ours.

 

[ISeeYou]

Heres a few verses on the same

Rev 2:14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.

Col 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:

1Cr 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.....

1Cr 8: 7 Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol ((((unto this hour)))) eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.

1Cr 10:28 But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof:

 

[Kencore]

All I know is that It is not kosher to put cheese and meat together. And man do I love cheese burgers.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

Amendment to post 301:

He gave Adam the herbs o eat, no blood.
He gave Noah more, the herbs and everything that moves, but no blood.
He restricted Israel's diet as part of a peculiar covenant with just those Hebrew tribes (Israel), no blood.
He gave Christians all foods, except meat offered to idols, anything strangled, and blood which has always been prohibited (Acts 15:29).

That letter also included verse 24[SUP] [/SUP]Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

The council settled on four prohibitions that all people of all lands should agree are wrong, commanded of Christians in particular, things that would cut off many Jewish souls from entering Christ. No animals were listed as unclean. Peter already knew that personally (Acts 10) concerning Cornelius.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

All I know is that It is not kosher to put cheese and meat together. And man do I love cheese burgers.

Jews must not by their law. There is no such prohibition for Christians.

 

[ISeeYou]

Exactly Word_Swordsman, in two places, it shows and both contexts are the law too

Here first, when the other were trying to yoke the discples to Moses, they come together and said,

Acts 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

Acts 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

When a question of keeping the law came in with Paul here ahain

Acts 21:25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.

 

[john832]

All I know is that It is not kosher to put cheese and meat together. And man do I love cheese burgers.

Uh, by whose standards?

 

[john832]

Jews must not by their law. There is no such prohibition for Christians.

Uh, show me the scriptures.

 

[john832]

Amendment to post 301:

He gave Adam the herbs o eat, no blood.
He gave Noah more, the herbs and everything that moves, but no blood.
He restricted Israel's diet as part of a peculiar covenant with just those Hebrew tribes (Israel), no blood.
He gave Christians all foods, except meat offered to idols, anything strangled, and blood which has always been prohibited (Acts 15:29).

That letter also included verse 24Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

The council settled on four prohibitions that all people of all lands should agree are wrong, commanded of Christians in particular, things that would cut off many Jewish souls from entering Christ. No animals were listed as unclean. Peter already knew that personally (Acts 10) concerning Cornelius.

And that is all for the Gentiles?

 

[john832]

It's the teaching/leading people to do those things, violating weak consciences, causing the weak in faith to dive into all sorts of sin due to encouragement to do so, that drew such condemnation from the Lord. I don't think anyone here has been teaching that Jews ought to eat meat offered to idols. The sin of Baalam was to encourage King Balak to tempt Israel with prostitutes and savory meat offered to idols, which is far worse than falling into such sin. It's serious error to use that scripture to say Christians ought to follow the Jew's dietary laws.

Paul made it clear such meat can't hurt anyone, as no idol has power to hurt. But if we eat meat offered to idols and that act offends anyone that sees or knows you do it or did it, then the act is sin.

There remains the main issue, that no Christian is held by God to follow the Jew's diet, nor must any Christian tolerate being judged over that, except if eating meat offered to idols, even though it does the Christian no harm. We can't use our liberty at the expense of souls lost. Will I eat everything? Yes. But I won't eat in a place of idols where offered meat is served. I would never put a ham on a table in the presence of a Jew I know observes the Mosaic diet. Will I teach a Christian the knowledge of permissions? Yes, in the course of making a strong disciple of them. It's the weak ones that are endangered until they are strengthened.

You realize no Jew observing the law would even enter a restaurant where just touching an item on a buffet would defile him. The Gentiles have their tables, the Jews theirs. I know Jews who would not consider offending Gentiles, Christian or not, over pushing the diet law. It's something they won't mention. It won't come up. Many Jews live in our area, with no kosher stores. They enter the common stores, are careful to mind their own business concerning food. It is their deal, not ours.

So, when did Judaism become God's standards? Can you show me in scripture what you have proposed here?

 

[Hizikyah]

Exactly Word_Swordsman, in two places, it shows and both contexts are the law too

Here first, when the other were trying to yoke the discples to Moses, they come together and said,

Acts 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

Acts 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

When a question of keeping the law came in with Paul here ahain

Acts 21:25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.

These were the requirements to even walk into a place of worship, if this were it, stealing would be ok....

2 peter 3:15-17, "And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability."

Ezekiyl 22:25-26, "There is a conspiracy of her prophets in her midst, like a roaring lion ravening the prey: they have devoured souls; they have taken the treasure and precious things; they have made many widows in the midst of her. Her priests have violated My Law, and have profaned My holy things; they have put no difference between the holy and profane, they have not taught the difference between the unclean and the clean; they have shut their eyes to the keeping of My Sabbaths, and I am profaned among them."

Isayah 56:1-7, "This is what Yahweh says: Keep the judgments, and do justly; for My salvation is near, soon, to come, and My righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of man who lays hold on it; who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them; and keeps his hand from doing any evil. Do not let the son of the Gentile, who has joined himself to Yahweh, speak, saying; Yahweh has utterly separated me from His people. Nor let the eunuch say; Behold, I am a dry tree. For this is what Yahweh says: To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths, and choose those things which please Me, and hold fast to My covenant: I will give to them, in My House, even within My walls, a place and a Name equal to that of sons and of daughters; I will give them the Name of The Everlasting: YAHWEH; which will not be cut off. Also the sons of the Gentile who join themselves to Yahweh, to serve Him, and to love the Name of Yahweh, to be His servants--everyone who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them and who holds fast to My covenant--I will bring them to My holy mountain, and make them joyful in My House of prayer..."

 

[ISeeYou]

Just to be fair to you Hizikyah (and so you are aware) because I know you want to get my attention on issues with Paul but I cant read your posts, I do have you on ignore.

This is all I see when you adress me



I think its best, just so there will be no back and forth between us (on my part) any longer

 

[Hizikyah]

Just to be fair to you Hizikyah (and so you are aware) because I know you want to get my attention on issues with Paul but I cant read your posts, I do have you on ignore.

This is all I see when you adress me

View attachment 95771

I think its best, just so there will be no back and forth between us (on my part) any longer

Well I understand then that you will not be able to read this, hopefully if you ever see and of my posts while not logged in you see this one.

When you twist Scripture, like you did concerning Acts 15, as those are the instructions for NEW convert to Messiah, as I stated if that were it, stealing would be ok... But when you twist something I have to speak up, for what if a person unlearned but zealous for Yahweh were misled by you posting?

 

[gb9]

do you ever think that maybe someone could be mislead by yours?? a new or young person that just came to Christ, and then all the stuff you post??

 

[Elin]

Amendment to post 301:

He gave Adam the herbs to eat, no blood.
He gave Noah more, the herbs and everything that moves, but no blood.
He restricted Israel's diet as part of a peculiar covenant with just those Hebrew tribes (Israel), no blood.
He gave Christians all foods, except meat offered to idols, anything strangled, and blood which has always been prohibited (Acts 15:29).

The council settled on four prohibitions that all people of all lands should agree are wrong, commanded of Christians in particular, things that would cut off many Jewish souls from entering Christ. No animals were listed as unclean. Peter already knew that personally (Acts 10) concerning Cornelius.

But refraining from meat sacrificed to idols and from blood were temporary restrictions on the Gentile Christians in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia, not on all people of all lands, for the sake of fellowship with the new Jewish Christians, who were repulsed by such practices.

We find those restrictions lifted in 1Co 8:8, 10:15, where meat sacrificed to idols would not necessarily have been properly drained of blood.

 

[john832]

But refraining from meat sacrificed to idols and from blood were temporary restrictions on the Gentile Christians in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia, not on all people of all lands, for the sake of fellowship with the new Jewish Christians, who were repulsed by such practices.

We find those restrictions lifted in 1Co 8:8, 10:15, where meat sacrificed to idols would not necessarily have been properly drained of blood.

Seems the rules change every whipstitch. How many times have they changed in your lifetime and more importantly, how do you keep up with it?

What was OK yesterday may be wrong today and what was wrong 10 minutes ago may be fine and dandy right now.

 

[Hizikyah]

do you ever think that maybe someone could be mislead by yours?? a new or young person that just came to Christ, and then all the stuff you post??

Of course, people can misunderstand anything, I read posts, and then re read them and realized I missed the point the person was trying to get across. (the first time I read) and I know I dont always fully explain, but it is because I dont like to put my "flavor" on His words.... I know sometimes that is a must so give - take....

My issue, and Im open to correction and reasoning on this. But my issue is with:

2 Thessalonians 2:7, "For the mystery of iniquity is already working, but the One restraining him will continue to restrain him, until he is made to appear in the midst. And then that lawless one will be revealed, whom Yahshua will remove with the breath of His mouth, and make powerless with the appearance of His coming-- Whose coming is according to the energy of Satan..."

Mattithyah 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."

"iniquity" is:#0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

Not saying I perfectly uphold HIS Standard of love, because I know I do not, but how is it I am spoken evil of for promoting HIS Standard of love?


Deuteronomy 6:5, "And you must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might."

Exodus 20:6, "But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws."

1 Yahchanan 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yahweh: When we love Yahweh by keeping His Laws. For this is the love of Yahweh: That we keep His Law, and His Law is not grievous.

Scripture tells me why:

Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."

1785. entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

Revelation 12:17
New International Version
Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring--those who keep God's commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.

Isayah 59:13-15, "In transgressing and lying against Yahweh, and turning away from following our Father, speaking oppression and rebellion, conceiving and uttering from the mind words of falsehood: So judgment is driven backwards, and justice stands afar off, for truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter. Yes, truth is suppressed; and he who departs from evil is accounted as mad. Yahweh saw this, and it displeased Him that there was no justice."

 

[Hizikyah]

But refraining from meat sacrificed to idols and from blood were temporary restrictions on the Gentile Christians in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia, not on all people of all lands, for the sake of fellowship with the new Jewish Christians, who were repulsed by such practices.

We find those restrictions lifted in 1Co 8:8, 10:15, where meat sacrificed to idols would not necessarily have been properly drained of blood.

WOW, so if you mighty one changes... NVM...

Malakyah (Malachi) 3:6, "For I am Yahweh, I change not..."

Seems the rules change every whipstitch. How many times have they changed in your lifetime and more importantly, how do you keep up with it?

What was OK yesterday may be wrong today and what was wrong 10 minutes ago may be fine and dandy right now.

Revelation 2:14, "But I have a few things against you: you have some there who hold the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, so that they might eat food sacrificed to idols and practice sexual immorality." (ESV)

Revelation 2:20, "But I have this against you, that you tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess and is teaching and seducing my servants to practice sexual immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols." (ESV)

Romans 9:6-8, "However, it is not as though Yahweh's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Israyl who belongs to Israyl. Nor, just because they are his descendants, are they all Abraham's children; but: In Isaac will your seed be called. That is, it is not those who are the children of the flesh who are Yahweh's children; but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's seed."

Psalm 105:6-9, "O seed of Abraham His servant, You children of Yaaqob, His chosen ones! He is Yahweh our Father! His judgments are in all the earth. He has remembered His covenant forever, the Law He commanded for a thousand generations; Which He made; ratified, established, with Abraham, and vowed by His oath to Isaac. He confirmed it; let it stand, to Yaaqob for a Law, and to Israyl for an everlasting covenant."

Galations 3:28,29, "Is there not the Yahdai as well as the Greek; Gentile? Is there not the slave as well as the freeman? Is there not the male and the female? For all of you must be in unity in Yahshua Messiah. And if you are in Messiah, then you are a seed of Abraham, heirs according to the promise."

Psalm 89:26-37, "He will call out to Me; You are my Father, O Yahweh! You are the Rock of my salvation! And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him. And I will establish his Seed forever, and his throne will be as the days of heaven. Should his children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My lovingkindness I will not utterly withdraw from him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what that has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness--I cannot lie, and I say to David: His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky."

 

[Elin]

Does God change his mind frequently like men?

No, but his plan for mankind has changes in it:

setting aside of the Levitical priesthood,
establishment of a new eternal priesthood in the order of Melchizedek,
establishment of a new eternal High Priest, Jesus Christ,
setting aside of the sacrificial system,
setting aside of physical circumcision, etc.

Do they mean God changed his mind?

All food is clean (Ge 9:3).
Some food is unclean (Lev).
All food is clean (Ro 14:14; 1Co 8:8, 10:15).

God didn't "change his mind," his plan from before the foundations of the world included changes.