Music in Church?

[Ukorin]

You appeal to the OT law to justify the use of IM. You therefore have an obligation to keep ALL that OT law. Are you keeping all the OT law FLAWLESSLY else that law condemns you.

Rom 7:1-7 Paul said it is spiritual adultery for a Christian to try and keep Moses law and Christ's law at the same time.

God commanded Christians to sing. Why is it 'foolishness' to debate what God has commanded?

The Law and the Prophets are seperate entities.
She appealed to the Prophets, not the Law.

 

[SeaBass]

No, legalism is a term used to describe cults who proclaim salvation by works.

You do not have a grasp on NT law, proven by your lack of understanding of authorization and freedom in Christ.
The New Testement is not a Halakhah.

Evidently then Christ started a cult for Christ commanded works to be saved:

Jn 6:27 "Work...for the meat that endures unto everlasting life."

Mt 7:21 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."

Mt 7:24 "Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:"

Jn 3:21 "But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God."

Jn 9:31 "Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth."

God does not acknowledge those who do not worship as He says, that do not do as he says.

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Nowhere does "freedom in Christ" men Christians can do as they please. That is a gross misunderstanding of the passage.

 

[SeaBass]

The Law and the Prophets are seperate entities.
She appealed to the Prophets, not the Law.

ALL of the OT can be referred to as "law"

She quoted from Psalms. Is Psalms a law or a Prophet?

 

[Ukorin]

ALL of the OT can be referred to as "law"

She quoted from Psalms. Is Psalms a law or a Prophet?

Prophets. Also categorized by itself within Scripture, but usually lumped in with the Prophets.
When is it ever called the Law?

If you do not understand obedience, start reading the Epistles. You are neglecting the motivations of our works and the causation of our salvation.

So much of this comes from not understanding the Old Covenant. Do you think they were saved by works?
The New Covenant is not simply a revised version of the Old Covenant.

 

[SeaBass]

Prophets. Also categorized by itself within Scripture, but usually lumped in with the Prophets.
When is it ever called the Law?

If you do not understand obedience, start reading the Epistles. You are neglecting the motivations of our works and the causation of our salvation.

So much of this comes from not understanding the Old Covenant. Do you think they were saved by works?
The New Covenant is not simply a revised version of the Old Covenant.

Jn 10:34 "Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?'

Jesus is quoting Psa 82:6 and calls Psalms "law"

In Rom 3:10-18 Paul quotes verses from Psalms and from Isaiah (a prophet) to prove the Jews are sinners as the Gentiles. In verse 19 Paul says "Now we know that what things soever the law saith". Paul refers to all those OT quotes he made in verses 10-18 as "LAW"

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Jn 6:27 "Work...for the meat that endures unto everlasting life."

Mt 7:21 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."

It's a foregone conclusion salvation is not possible without obedient works. It's really a waste of time to argue this but people will cling to and take comfort in their man-made theologies.

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Yes, those in the OT were justified by their works, James 2:23-25.

 

[AuphirahQueen]

You appeal to the OT law to justify the use of IM. You therefore have an obligation to keep ALL that OT law. Are you keeping all the OT law FLAWLESSLY else that law condemns you.

Rom 7:1-7 Paul said it is spiritual adultery for a Christian to try and keep Moses law and Christ's law at the same time.

God commanded Christians to sing. Why is it 'foolishness' to debate what God has commanded?

The Old Law had nothing to do with instruments so that means you do not read Psalm to uplift your spirit. The Sacred Word(OT/NT) is the breath of ABBA and a Christian cannot disregard the OT that is foundation for NT because remember JESUS was Hebrew that is his culture of worshiping. The Bible is about teachings/instructions how a believer lives ones life with in this world chaos. Music is powerful in a believer life that is probably why some folks in my town think I am crazy because I am always singing praise, dancing, and I have joy. Christians are suppose to give praises, sing, worship, and pray with a loud voice to ABBA. Please do not become dead within your spirit, soul and heart. Look around every culture has music because it brings joy to ones soul and I am speaking joyful music to the soul, mind and heart. Do not allow satan to take your joy, praise, songs within your heart(soul), thanksgiving or prayer with a loud voice. Be Bless with joy in your heart!!

 

[Kerry]

1. As I journey through the land, singing as I go,
   Pointing souls to Calvary—to the crimson flow,
   Many arrows pierce my soul from without, within;
   But my Lord leads me on, through Him I must win.
   • Refrain:
     Oh, I want to see Him, look upon His face,
     There to sing forever of His saving grace;
     On the streets of glory let me lift my voice,
     Cares all past, home at last, ever to rejoice.
2. When in service for my Lord dark may be the night,
   But I’ll cling more close to Him, He will give me light;
   Satan’s snares may vex my soul, turn my thoughts aside;
   But my Lord goes ahead, leads whate’er betide.
3. When in valleys low I look toward the mountain height,
   And behold my Savior there, leading in the fight,
   With a tender hand outstretched toward the valley low,
   Guiding me, I can see, as I onward go.
4. When before me billows rise from the mighty deep,
   Then my Lord directs my bark; He doth safely keep,
   And He leads me gently on through this world below;
   He’s a real Friend to me, oh, I love Him so.

 

[Jabberjaw]

What makes you think the Lord needs your enhancements? was His way not good enough for Him?

enhancements?

like, for example, adding an extra-biblical law against playing a lute?
was God's way when the Holy Spirit authored the Psalms not good enough for you?

You said your worship with musical instruments are "enhancements" to worshiping Him, I would like to know how you get around not calling that a perfect example of "self imposed religion"

Colossians 2:23 (NKJV)
23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.

Satisfying your own bellies...

 

[Kerry]

Why does God give people the talents to play musical instruments?

 

[Jabberjaw]

Why does God give people the talents to play musical instruments?

Because it sounds good as long as its not used for worship?

 

[Sirk]

No, Paul in writing to the Jews at Rome told them they were "dead to the law" and had been released/discharged from that law in order for them to be Christians/married to Christ, Rom 7:4,6


Paul also said "For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
" Gal 5:6 and "For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love." 1 Cor 7:19. When Paul says circumcision is nothing, avails nothing he is saying keeping the OT is nothing, avails nothing.

From the Galatian epistles, Christians that left the NT gospel and returned to keeping the OT law thinking they could be justified by that OT law, they:
1) have left the gospel unto a false gospel Gal 1:6,7
2) quit obeying the truth Gal 3:1; Gal 5:7
3) making Christ's death in vain, Gal 2L21
4) fallen from grace; Gal 5:4

Gal 5:1 Christians are told "Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage."
Trying to go back to the OT law to jusitfy the use of IM is entangling one's self in that yoke of bondage.

......does your version say that we get entangled in the yoke of manmade bondage....cuz that is exactly what you do. Oh you stiff necked man. Oh well.

 

[Tintin]

Because it sounds good as long as its not used for worship?

This is the kind of bull that confuses me. Musical instruments are A-Okay in your books, as long as they're not used to glorify the one true God!

 

[Kerry]

but, Tin all God has is a Trumpet. Reckon why?

 

[Jabberjaw]

This is the kind of bull that confuses me. Musical instruments are A-Okay in your books, as long as they're not used to glorify the one true God!

Because the one true God did not ask you to use them to worship Him. you use them for your own benefit "will worship"

 

[Sirk]

This is the kind of bull that confuses me. Musical instruments are A-Okay in your books, as long as they're not used to glorify the one true God!

I think every generation has its "dancing is a sin" stone brains.

 

[Kerry]

I can't praise God with my piano playing and not say a word. He gave me that talent. Should I not use it to praise Him?

 

[Sirk]

I can't praise God with my piano playing and not say a word. He gave me that talent. Should I not use it to praise Him?

Of course you can. Make a joyful noise!

 

[Jabberjaw]

I can't praise God with my piano playing and not say a word. He gave me that talent. Should I not use it to praise Him?

Of course you can. Make a joyful noise!

Yep, you can have your own self imposed religion and everything :

Colossians 2:23 (NKJV)
23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.

 

[Sirk]

Because the one true God did not ask you to use them to worship Him. you use them for your own benefit "will worship"

I could give a dozen stories of hurting people who kept coming back to church mainly because of the worship, who are now completely sold out to Jesus and are living testimonies of His mercy... You rock brain fundamentalists are really quite a sad lot.

 

[Kerry]

Well some people won't like heaven cause it's filled with music. I can see it now. Jesus will you tell them to stop praising you with their music. I'm trying to be dead a sleep and dry. So make them stop.