Music in Church?

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Mar 12, 2014
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But by golly you better not sing with an instrument accompanying you. That is just an abomination before the Lord.

Ill bet your the guy who sings really annoyingly loud and out of tune. I'm not judging you....I like your enthusiasm....just don;t be offended if I plug my ears.....k?


I just spoke in a parable I think....how cool is that!?!?!? I did't even do it on purpose!
It appears to me you think God's commands are just something to make fun about.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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That would be your opinion of me. Can you back that up with scripture?

You posted "But by golly you better not sing with an instrument accompanying you. That is just an abomination before the Lord. "

You meant that as sarcasm as if following God's command is something to be made fun about.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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You posted "But by golly you better not sing with an instrument accompanying you. That is just an abomination before the Lord. "

You meant that as sarcasm as if following God's command is something to be made fun about.
Where, specifically, in the bible is the command from God not to worship in church with musical instruments? A specific reference and not a vague inference of some sort.
 
S

Sirk

Guest
You posted "But by golly you better not sing with an instrument accompanying you. That is just an abomination before the Lord. "

You meant that as sarcasm as if following God's command is something to be made fun about.
In all seriousness, I can see that you are passionate about this subject, and I guess I respect that and that you have the freedom to interpret it that way. The other side of the same coin is that it is just such a foreign nonsensical adding something that isn't there concept, that the fun loving humorous personality in me can't help but poke fun at it..............Hate the nonsense love the nonsensical I always say.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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Where, specifically, in the bible is the command from God not to worship in church with musical instruments? A specific reference and not a vague inference of some sort.

You are using flawed logic. Silence does forbid.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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In all seriousness, I can see that you are passionate about this subject, and I guess I respect that and that you have the freedom to interpret it that way. The other side of the same coin is that it is just such a foreign nonsensical adding something that isn't there concept, that the fun loving humorous personality in me can't help but poke fun at it..............Hate the nonsense love the nonsensical I always say.
Anyone that calls himself a Christian should be passionate about what God has commanded Christians to do in going about as to how to worship God. Maybe some do not realize God has set the standard for how worship is to be done, not man. If I do not have to do what God says when it comes to singing, you cannot give me any valid reason as to why I have to do anything God has commanded.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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You are using flawed logic. Silence does forbid.
I'll take that as there isn't a specific command. What else does 'silence' in scripture forbid? I may need to get a magic 8 ball and start asking questions about various spiritual matters.
 
S

Sirk

Guest
Anyone that calls himself a Christian should be passionate about what God has commanded Christians in how to go about worshipping God. Maybe some do not realize God has set the standard for how worship is to be done, not man. If I do not have to do what God says when it comes to singing, you cannot give me any valid reason as to why I have to do anything God has commanded.
I hear you, I hear you.....it's gonna be okay. I can worship Jesus with my guitar and you can worship him with your throat....we're both still making things vibrate.
 
S

Sirk

Guest
I'll take that as there isn't a specific command. What else does 'silence' in scripture forbid? I may need to get a magic 8 ball and start asking questions about various spiritual matters.

I think we are in big trouble if silence is a command.....
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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I hear you, I hear you.....it's gonna be okay. I can worship Jesus with my guitar and you can worship him with your throat....we're both still making things vibrate.
I'm picking up some good vibrations here...
 
S

Sirk

Guest
I'm picking up some good vibrations here...
Interestingly......I've been reading scripture and I can't find anywhere in there where its says I am supposed to blink. My eyes are getting really dry and are starting to hurt.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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If it's not a collective action then it is not being reflexive/reciprocated. One person (or group) cannot sing while the rest sit and listen and have the singing be reflexive and reciprocated. So heautas as used in the context of Eph 5:19 is collective singing.

A reflexive pronoun is used with another noun/pronoun when something does something to itself.

John hit himself - reflexive for John did something to John
"They hit themselves." doesn't have to mean everyone hit himself at exactly the same time. English has it's version of a reflexive, and what you say isn't true of English, or of the English translation of Ephesians 5. The quotes I just got demonstrate that your assertions about this Greek word isn't true. When people have a conversation, they don't usually speak in unison like they are singing a song. That would be a miracle or something supernatural if such a thing spontaneously occurred. Suggesting that Christ's opponents did so based on the use of this Greek word, when questioned about John's baptism, is a ridiculous interpretation of scripture.

You are also breaking your own rules of hermeneutics with Ephesians 5:19. If silence forbids, then you can't allow for singing, because the passage says 'speaking' to yourselves in psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs. Haven't you argued that the melody is in the heart? Like you pointed out about I Corinthians 14:26, having a psalm could mean reading a written psalm without singing.

It's really inconsistent to think 'hath a psalm' means reading a psalm, while Ephesians 6 is speaking about singing. Ephesians 5 explicitly says 'speaking.' I Corinthians 14 doesn't say whether speaking or singing is in view. So there is a stronger case for solos being sung if you want to take your rigid view.

The real problem with your approach is this 'silence forbids' idea. What you are doing is speaking where scripture is silent. There is a lot of other scripture, though, that you aren't considering, Revelation, and the Old Testament. Both of these refer to instruments.

The real issue seems to be that you go to a church that you believe has it figured out. You argue in the direction of whatever your church tradition does.


So how can one be singing to himself if he is not singing at all during the time frame the song is taking place?
There is no reason to think it has to take place during the duration of one song, since it says 'in pslams, hymns, and spiritual songs". It's not talking about just one song. If I speak one psalm, and another brother speaks a hymn, etc. that situation fits the description. Paul doesn't command that every individual has to do so in one meeting.

Speaking congregationally would fulfill the same requirement. I don't take the rigid silence approach, so I allow for singing in both cases.

I Corinthians 14 clearly allows for either a solo or individually speaking out a psalm. I don't take this rigid version of the regulative approach, so I believe singing is allowed, as long as it is done unto edifying.

Your assuming that if an individual 'hath a psalm' that he suggests it to be sung congregationally has no support in the text. I'm not against that, but Paul says 'every one of you hath a psalm'. If you take the silly rigid silence approach that you use elsewhere, you shouldn't be reading suggesting congregational singing into the text. Other things mentioned in the text aren't done in unision (teaching, tongues, sharing revelations, or interpretations.) These other activities are to be done in a turn-taking manner rather than in unison.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
42,556
17,025
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Tennessee
Interestingly......I've been reading scripture and I can't find anywhere in there where its says I am supposed to blink. My eyes are getting really dry and are starting to hurt.
Jesus wept. Perhaps we all need a good cry to ease the hurt. At least we would be covered from a biblical perspective.
 
S

Sirk

Guest
I'm curious Mr Bass......in all of this hand wringing has Jesus been exalted....have people been called into repentance? Has the Holy Spirit moved hearts into His grace? I believe that He is pleased with the unity (God loves Unity) shown against your and Jabberlips adding to the scripture.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
42,556
17,025
113
69
Tennessee
"They hit themselves." doesn't have to mean everyone hit himself at exactly the same time. English has it's version of a reflexive, and what you say isn't true of English, or of the English translation of Ephesians 5. The quotes I just got demonstrate that your assertions about this Greek word isn't true. When people have a conversation, they don't usually speak in unison like they are singing a song. That would be a miracle or something supernatural if such a thing spontaneously occurred. Suggesting that Christ's opponents did so based on the use of this Greek word, when questioned about John's baptism, is a ridiculous interpretation of scripture.

You are also breaking your own rules of hermeneutics with Ephesians 5:19. If silence forbids, then you can't allow for singing, because the passage says 'speaking' to yourselves in psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs. Haven't you argued that the melody is in the heart? Like you pointed out about I Corinthians 14:26, having a psalm could mean reading a written psalm without singing.

It's really inconsistent to think 'hath a psalm' means reading a psalm, while Ephesians 6 is speaking about singing. Ephesians 5 explicitly says 'speaking.' I Corinthians 14 doesn't say whether speaking or singing is in view. So there is a stronger case for solos being sung if you want to take your rigid view.

The real problem with your approach is this 'silence forbids' idea. What you are doing is speaking where scripture is silent. There is a lot of other scripture, though, that you aren't considering, Revelation, and the Old Testament. Both of these refer to instruments.

The real issue seems to be that you go to a church that you believe has it figured out. You argue in the direction of whatever your church tradition does.




There is no reason to think it has to take place during the duration of one song, since it says 'in pslams, hymns, and spiritual songs". It's not talking about just one song. If I speak one psalm, and another brother speaks a hymn, etc. that situation fits the description. Paul doesn't command that every individual has to do so in one meeting.

Speaking congregationally would fulfill the same requirement. I don't take the rigid silence approach, so I allow for singing in both cases.

I Corinthians 14 clearly allows for either a solo or individually speaking out a psalm. I don't take this rigid version of the regulative approach, so I believe singing is allowed, as long as it is done unto edifying.

Your assuming that if an individual 'hath a psalm' that he suggests it to be sung congregationally has no support in the text. I'm not against that, but Paul says 'every one of you hath a psalm'. If you take the silly rigid silence approach that you use elsewhere, you shouldn't be reading suggesting congregational singing into the text. Other things mentioned in the text aren't done in unision (teaching, tongues, sharing revelations, or interpretations.) These other activities are to be done in a turn-taking manner rather than in unison.
I believed you nailed it in regards to silence forbids. You wrote an outstanding post.