Must a Christian read the Ten Commandments to Know How God wants them to live?

[DiscipleDave]

Gottime said

Again the problem here is you lack of knowledge of the law. you think you can just read the new testament and understand?

think again, have you not noticed that all the arguments of Jesus and the apostles are taken from the Old testament?

You clearly display that you have not been tutored, you seem like a child that has come to an exam without first going to school to be ready.

The entire new covenant can be taught from the Old Testament.

You teach that the law that God spoke with His own mouth ad wrote with His own finger is done away with. You teach that though the law is good and holy and Just that we should not keep it.

Well it don't matter what you think of me...its matters what the bible clearly teaches!

Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. 7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Very True Mitspa, Sad to say, the problem is people in this generation do not believe the Bible and what it plainly teaches, They have a particular belief that they say is True, and try to conform the Scriptures to fit that belief. When it should be the other way around, To conform their belief to what the Scriptures say and teach.

To all readers, Here is a True statement, and will reveal who knows the Truth and who does not know the Truth.

If what you believe contradicts even one verse in Scripture, than what you believe is Wrong.

But this generation absolutely refuses to admit they are wrong, therefore they go about to interpret that verse that seems to contradict their belief and change it to mean something that will fit their own belief. Some will altogether ignore that verse, or make void that verse, or negate that verse.

Again, if what you believe contradicts even one verse in Scriptures then what you believe is in error, and you should change your belief to line up with Scriptures, instead of changing Scriptures to line up with your belief. Woe to this generation indeed.

^i^ Responding to post #127

 

[gotime]

Good then teach love in Christ...and forsake all this legalism, because its profits no one anything!

Friend it is not legalism to teach the law, in that you are mistaken.

Legalism is trying to keep the law to be saved in your own power/works.

I have n past times tried this and can testify that it does not work, you end up deeper in sin.

But rather faith in the promises of God, love in the heart brings the fruit of true obedience.

See there are two extremes.

legalist which tries in its own power to keep the law to be saved.

The cheap grace who reduces Grace to only words with no true power.

Then there is those who by Faith accept the Grace of God and are transformed into new creatures by faith and keeping the law is simply the fruit of the love of God in the heart by the spirit.

Jesus came to save from sin, not in sin.

It is not legalism to keep the law as a result not of works but of Grace and Faith in Gods promises.

I will tell you this, I do not know what it is like any more to constantly fall for the same sin over and over. In this I do not boast except in Jesus Christ who is the one who does it in me.

I do not mean I am perfect although in Christ I am. I do not mean I never ever sin yet in Christ I am seen as such.

But I do not struggle as I used to with the same sins over and over. since understanding what Jesus has promised and done for us, I have found a power that transformed the way I think and act.

though I may not yet have attained I do forget those things which are past and press forward to the high calling we have in Jesus. I know that He who has begun a good work will finish it.

I have much growth to go and much to learn. but I testify that there is power in the blood.

 

[DiscipleDave]

Ro 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

For Christ is the end of the law, yet there are those in this generation who are still trying to make us under the law. They know not the Truth, nor are they willing to understand it when it is presented to them.

^i^ Responding to post #129

 

[DiscipleDave]

Let me suggest something here that you don't have to reply to but think about it.

you have sins in your life that you can't seem to break free of.

you try because you love Jesus and sometimes you succeed for a time, but then you find yourself back in the same sin later on for some reason or another.

Do you know what the Bible calls those who can't cease from sin? Cursed children (2 Pet 2:14)

^i^ Responding to post #132

 

[ChristInUs]

For Christ is the end of the law, yet there are those in this generation who are still trying to make us under the law. They know not the Truth, nor are they willing to understand it when it is presented to them.

^i^ Responding to post #129

Yes we are to read the OT and read the ten. But the fact is, when we get saved and borned again those rules are implanted in our hearts and brains. For instance before salvation we rolled in sin and enjoyed it, in fact called our friends the next day and laughed about it. But after salvation we no longer wanted to do those things, in fact it disgusted us. This what God meant when He said I will write my laws in their heart and I shall be their God and they shall be my people.

 

[gotime]

It would be lovely to meet in person, I know you would be surprised at what you see and find.

See I preach this stuff at church often and my Church believes because I have shown them the promises as Christ has shown me.

I have seen transformation that brings such joy. We have people who come from other faiths to see about this church that preaches about he law and Jesus. They are often shocked at how loving and caring we are and how Christ centred we are. (I know this because they tell me and others in the church)

Many have begun to attend our church on a regular basis because they have found such strength in Christ. I had one lady recently come up to me and said I have been in church of years but always felt like something was missing, like there was more Christ Jesus had for me. and she found it in a church that teaches the law as it is in Christ.

Friend I know I have proved nothing in what I just said, my point is simple I testify to the power of Jesus Christ in our lives.
There is a freedom in Christ that gives rest to the soul and peace and joy.

 

[DiscipleDave]

The law of Moses: as you call it:

Lev 19:18 Thou shalt not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people; but thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself: I am Jehovah.

Deu 6:5 and thou shalt love Jehovah thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

So which is it are you free from these or not?

i am free from both of those. But what i am not free from is Jesus saying a new commandment i give unto to you to LOVE ONE ANOTHER. And He also tells us to believe in HIM. Those commandments i am not free from. But i am not under any commandment that the Israelites were given under the old covenant.

^i^ Responding to post #144

 

[DiscipleDave]

you don't even know the law of Moses. you claim to be free from it.

then you are free to steal, commit adultery, not love God, not love your neighbour, you are free to hate your enemies. all these and more are in the law of Moses that you clam to be free from.

i am free from all those things, what i am not free from is the New Commandment Jesus Christ commanded Christians to follow and to obey, and that is to LOVE ONE ANOTHER, and if you do that, you fulfill all those things you fulfill the whole LAW.

Under the new covenant if i steal from someone, i do not commit sin because i broke one of the ten commandments. If i steal from someone i commit sin because i failed to love the one i stole from. You do not understand it is a heart thing, not about a LAW thing. Truly the Scriptures are True, if you feel like you should be under the law, then you (YOU) will be judged by the law. Those who are under the new covenant are under the law of liberty, not under the LAWS given to the Israelites under the old covenant. i tell you the Truth, but reject it, because the Truth is not in you. If the Truth were in you, you would believe and understand the Scriptures, and you would listen to others who time and again have shown you Scriptures that contradict what you believe, but you still refuse the Truth. Am i saying you can't find the Truth? Heavens no, if i thought thought i would not waste another key stroke on you. But i love you, and want you to come to the Truth, and that is my hope, Pray about it, study the Scriptures, Don't believe me or anyone else for that matter to teach you what the Truth is, search it out yourself. DON"T think you already know the Truth and therefore do not search it out. Again, Love you, and pray for me, as i will for you.

^i^ Responding to post # 149

 

[DiscipleDave]

DiscipleDave said : Jesus had to keep the 10 commandments, but not only the ten but all 600+ commandments, or else sin would have been found in Him.
The New covenant did not start until the moment it was witnessed that Jesus was alive from the dead, resurrected from the Dead, it was only at that moment did the New Covenant start, it was only at that moment, that the 12 scared men that hid from the authorities for fear of the same fate that Jesus went through, that they became SAVED, Truly believed He was the Son of the living God, by returning from the grave alive.
Jesus while He lived was NOT under the new covenant that would begin when He rose from the dead. Jesus while He walked the Earth was under the old covenant, the 10 commandments, the Torah. If He did not live by all those commandments, then sin would have been found in Him, and He would not have been a perfect, without spot, sacrifice for our sins. It was only after He rose from the dead, That EVERYTHING changed, including the LAW.
Jesus saying "A NEW commandment i give unto you, LOVE ONE ANOTHER" He made All other commandments OLD. None of the 10 commandments commands us to LOVE ONE ANOTHER.
Old Covenant = Keep the 10 commandments. Told to the Israelites who were under the old covenant.
New Covenant = LOVE ONE ANOTHER. Told to Christians under the new covenant.
Woe to those who try to teach Christians who are under a new covenant to obey that which was the old covenant, they know not the Truth.

love one another is Old Covenant also did you know that?

Under the old covenant, they were not commanded to love one another, it was legal to hate your enemies, it was legal to hate all outsiders, it was legal to hate gentiles, yeah not even to associate yourself with them. if you believe the old covenant taught to love one another, why would Jesus say " a NEW COMMANDMENT i give unto you, to LOVE ONE ANOTHER" if it was already commanded in the old covenant, why does Jesus then call it NEW?

^i^ Responding to post #158

 

[Laodicea]

So what point do you think your making....the New Testament reveals the gospel and the purpose of the law... So of course the OLD testament is going to teach the law and the New Testament is going to teach the gospel.

Ro 1:16 ¶ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.


Ro 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

You have a very limited view of the Old Testament if you think that the OT teaches the law and the NT the gospel. The gospel is everywhere through the OT.

 

[Mitspa]

Yes we are to read the OT and read the ten. But the fact is, when we get saved and borned again those rules are implanted in our hearts and brains. For instance before salvation we rolled in sin and enjoyed it, in fact called our friends the next day and laughed about it. But after salvation we no longer wanted to do those things, in fact it disgusted us. This what God meant when He said I will write my laws in their heart and I shall be their God and they shall be my people.

He said "I will cause them to walk in my ways" its the very Nature of God we have through the Spirit of God....the gentiles who show the work of the law "written on their hearts" do by nature those things contained in the law.... Now this is clearly the born-again believer ...the unsaved are by "nature" children of wrath! "KNOW YE NOT" that the Spirit of God dwells in you...is the biggest reason most cant understand the law written on our heart...Its the Holy Spirit, that sheds Gods love abroad in our hearts...we take that love and love others ....this is how all the law is fulfilled in one word.

 

[Mitspa]

You have a very limited view of the Old Testament if you think that the OT teaches the law and the NT the gospel. The gospel is everywhere through the OT.

Look...if you cant see the gospel in the New Testament? Don't pretend you can see it in the Old.

2Co 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

 

[gotime]

Under the old covenant, they were not commanded to love one another, it was legal to hate your enemies, it was legal to hate all outsiders, it was legal to hate gentiles, yeah not even to associate yourself with them. if you believe the old covenant taught to love one another, why would Jesus say " a NEW COMMANDMENT i give unto you, to LOVE ONE ANOTHER" if it was already commanded in the old covenant, why does Jesus then call it NEW?

^i^ Responding to post #158

You do know that you just proved that you don't know the Old Covenant. They were told to love the strangers .

by the way you have only half quoted the new commandment:

Joh 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, that ye love one another; even as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

"as I have loved you"

Had the Old Testament believers seen Jesus in person live as a human and show his love? no so it is indeed a new commandment.

They were told to love as can be seen from the following Texts:

Lev 19:34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

Deu 10:17 For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:
Deu 10:18 He doth execute the judgment of the fatherless and widow, and loveth the stranger, in giving him food and raiment.
Deu 10:19 Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

This one is similar to what Jesus said. God says to love the stranger here because He loves the stranger. not the same though in that it still was not Jesus in human form walking among them.

So yes love is a teaching of the Old Covenant.

 

[DiscipleDave]

It would be lovely to meet in person, I know you would be surprised at what you see and find.

See I preach this stuff at church often and my Church believes because I have shown them the promises as Christ has shown me.

I have seen transformation that brings such joy. We have people who come from other faiths to see about this church that preaches about he law and Jesus. They are often shocked at how loving and caring we are and how Christ centred we are. (I know this because they tell me and others in the church)

Many have begun to attend our church on a regular basis because they have found such strength in Christ. I had one lady recently come up to me and said I have been in church of years but always felt like something was missing, like there was more Christ Jesus had for me. and she found it in a church that teaches the law as it is in Christ.

Friend I know I have proved nothing in what I just said, my point is simple I testify to the power of Jesus Christ in our lives.
There is a freedom in Christ that gives rest to the soul and peace and joy.

Surely your church teaches more than just the law right? how do you know your church is not being blessed because of the other stuff your church is teaching? How can you single out your church teaching the law as being the sole cause of your church being blessed? you can't. A church is not blessed because of the preacher and what he is preaching. A church is Blessed based on the body of Christ within that church. Reading what you wrote above, it seems to me you think the Church is
Blessed because of what you preach.

^i^ Responding to post # 166

 

[Laodicea]

Look...if you cant see the gospel in the New Testament? Don't pretend you can see it in the Old.

2Co 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

The gospel is all through the Bible not just the NT as you said. Do you even know what the gospel is?

 

[gotime]

seems to me people are accusing God of giving a law that could not be kept even though He actually said to Israel that it could be kept.

 

[Mitspa]

seems to me people are accusing God of giving a law that could not be kept even though He actually said to Israel that it could be kept.

have you read the New Testament?

Ro 3:19 ¶ Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

 

[gotime]

Surely your church teaches more than just the law right? how do you know your church is not being blessed because of the other stuff your church is teaching? How can you single out your church teaching the law as being the sole cause of your church being blessed? you can't. A church is not blessed because of the preacher and what he is preaching. A church is Blessed based on the body of Christ within that church. Reading what you wrote above, it seems to me you think the Church is
Blessed because of what you preach.

^i^ Responding to post # 166

read the post I did not say we only preach the law. the point was just because we preach the law does not mean we follow it legalistically. Does not mean we are like the Pharisees who were devoid of the love of God.

 

[Mitspa]

The gospel is all through the Bible not just the NT as you said. Do you even know what the gospel is?

yes been trying to teach you for the last hour or so....

Ro 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:


Ro 1:16 ¶ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

 

[gotime]

have you read the New Testament?

Ro 3:19 ¶ Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

Indeed I have, the difference between me and you is I understand it. why? not cause I am any better than you but because I know the Old also. So I understand why Paul says those things because I come from the same reference point as He did.