What will become of "fake Christians?"

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Some people are hard to talk to about Jesus and all of His word, because in most cases it means they will actually have to step up and reevaluate their own lives closer and how they are walking. The bible makes clear examples that a true faith in Christ is an active faith because He is the one working in and through us. If you see a person professing Christ, but over the years you see no change in their life as they continue to walk as the same old self they were before the professing.
With you right up to here. Then ...

Then we know the professing is not real, and the Holy Spirit is not in them making them born again as the Lord through His Spirit will make those changes consciously and unconsciously.
Sorry, we can't "know" any such thing, though there is certainly grounds for speculation. God doesn't call us to be speculators, though. He calls us to be witnesses, and within the body, we have an obligation, within our local church body, to approach such a person and say what we see. They then have an opportunity to accept or reject what we say.

If there is obvious sin, Jesus tells us in Matthew 18:15-20 what the procedure is to be, up to and including removing them from fellowship for refusal to admit their sin, confess it, and repent -- change their attitude and see their sin as God sees it.

But if there is no obvious sin, just an apparent lack of growth, we can't make any judgment about that at all. Maybe they're in a desert, spiritually. Maybe the weight and worry of the world has stifled their ability to grow in Christ. Maybe they have a medical or mental disorder and haven't the strength to fight through the spiritual fog that results in order to come into the presence of Christ. There a lot of explanations for a lack of growth.

There is also plenty of biblical evidence to see such a lack of growth and be concerned. So what do we do? If the initial approach hasn't resulted in conviction or change, what gives us the right to write them off, consider them unsaved -- or as you might claim, consider them to have "lost" their salvation? We have no such right. We can pray, we can continue to be available to them as brothers/sisters in Christ, we can urge them to seek pastoral or counseling help. In fact, those things are all our responsibility when we are confronted by "people on plateaus."

Sanctification is instantaneous with belief, it also lasts a lifetime, and it ultimately, in the next life, results in absolute perfection in a glorified body. The journey between the beginning and the end is unpredictable, unchartable, and unfathomable. It is never the same twice. It cannot be placed in human, finite terms.
 
You act as if it is your thread. It is not. It was started by JFSurvivor, and the one who hijacked it was you by leaping in to claim to be a "former Christian." How about we let the thread get back on track, and you PM us if you have any questions about this faith you never had, but apparently want, as indicated by your hanging around a board filled with people who believe in Someone you repudiated years ago?

Well said.

If any genuine Christians start to doubt the existence of God, they just need to look at all the atheists hanging out on Christian sites.

God is SO real that people who are self-proclaimed atheists spend hours and hours and HOURS going on Christian sites because they are so afraid that God might be real that the only way they can alleviate that fear is to try and win arguments online.

I mean, I don't believe in UFOs, but I've never once in my life gone to a pro-UFO site to argue with them.
 
I'm a big 'Preach the Law' guy, Ray Comfort style.

Go through some of the Ten Commandments and ask them if they sin. Most will say, 'yea, everyone sins a little'.

For one who proclaims to be a Christian, the next question should be, "How do you deal with your sin?"

Does it bother them? Do they go to God and repent and confess? Do they feel sorrow for their sin? If these things are true of them, then they're probably relatively ok, or at least on their way.

However, if you challenge them and none of these things are true, then it's very possible that they do not have the Holy Spirit (since that's His job). And if they don't have the Spirit of God within, then they are not Christians.

Leave them with 2 Cor 13:5

Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test.

best way to be honest with myself.... right there.... measure myself against what YAH says....
 
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With you right up to here. Then ...

Sorry, we can't "know" any such thing, though there is certainly grounds for speculation. God doesn't call us to be speculators, though. He calls us to be witnesses, and within the body, we have an obligation, within our local church body, to approach such a person and say what we see. They then have an opportunity to accept or reject what we say.

If there is obvious sin, Jesus tells us in Matthew 18:15-20 what the procedure is to be, up to and including removing them from fellowship for refusal to admit their sin, confess it, and repent -- change their attitude and see their sin as God sees it.

But if there is no obvious sin, just an apparent lack of growth, we can't make any judgment about that at all. Maybe they're in a desert, spiritually. Maybe the weight and worry of the world has stifled their ability to grow in Christ. Maybe they have a medical or mental disorder and haven't the strength to fight through the spiritual fog that results in order to come into the presence of Christ. There a lot of explanations for a lack of growth.

There is also plenty of biblical evidence to see such a lack of growth and be concerned. So what do we do? If the initial approach hasn't resulted in conviction or change, what gives us the right to write them off, consider them unsaved -- or as you might claim, consider them to have "lost" their salvation? We have no such right. We can pray, we can continue to be available to them as brothers/sisters in Christ, we can urge them to seek pastoral or counseling help. In fact, those things are all our responsibility when we are confronted by "people on plateaus."

Sanctification is instantaneous with belief, it also lasts a lifetime, and it ultimately, in the next life, results in absolute perfection in a glorified body. The journey between the beginning and the end is unpredictable, unchartable, and unfathomable. It is never the same twice. It cannot be placed in human, finite terms.


We can not know by ones actions if they are not born again or not by watching them over the years? The bible says we will know them by their fruits.

[h=1]Matthew 7:15-20[/h][h=3]You Will Know Them by Their Fruits[/h]15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.


If a person professes Jesus as their Lord, but continues in their daily life doing the same living in a sinful lifestyle, their profession was not true. This goes back to the Lord who is in us will not let us continue that way, so their out actions will be evident to others as the bible clearly shows. These who have no change is who is being spoke about in Titus;

Titus 1:16

They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate
 
Well said.

If any genuine Christians start to doubt the existence of God, they just need to look at all the atheists hanging out on Christian sites.

Many Christians experience those 3:00 AM doubts. Jesus says moments of doubt will arise; it's very comforting to know Jesus understands our weakness and will empower those who sincerely ask for His guidance.

ASK -- Ask, Search, Knock. Matthew 7:7-8 :)
 
I'm mainly asking this question because my parents are catholic and they go to church, and do the "right" thing most of the time but I can't talk to them about JESUS!!!!!!! It drives me up a wall!!

You said "Fake" not "Wrong"
I apologize for not seeing this in the OP?

This is a great question, and there has to be a few former "RCC'ers' on here to maybe give advice?
Maybe ask Kenneth? ........he obviously mixes the two beliefs?
He might have a bit of insight?
Right Ken? ......We work for salvation, and confess our sins all day?

Maybe not?

My dad is a former RCC, he now spends his time trying to show others its true (false) message and teachings.
God Bless.
 
Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test.

1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."

1 John 3:4, "Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the Law: for sin is the transgression of the Law."

1 John 2:1-2, "My little children, I write these things to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father: Yahshua Messiah, the Righteous; nd He is the sacrifice of atonement for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."

Proverbs 28:13 “He who covers his sins will not prosper, but whoever confesses and forsakes them will have mercy.”

1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."

Romans 2:4-15, “Or do you despise the riches of His kindness, forbearance, and longsuffering; not realizing that Yahweh’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? But according to your stubborn and impenitent mind you are storing up wrath for yourself for the day of Yahweh’s wrath, when the righteous judgment of Yahweh will be revealed; when He will reward each one according to his works: to the ones on the one hand, who, by patient persistence in doing righteousness, seek for glory, honor and immortality, He will give eternal life. But to the ones on the other hand, who are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, He will give indignation and wrath.” Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man who does evil: to the Yahdai(Jew) first, and also to the Greek (Gentile) But glory, honor, and peace to every man who works righteousness: to the Yahdai first, and also to the Greek. For there is no respect of persons with Yahweh.For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them.”


John (Yahchanan) 15:4-6, "Abide in Me, and I in you. Just as the branch cannot produce fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, produces much fruit; but without Me, you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away like a branch, and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned."
 
You said "Fake" not "Wrong"
I apologize for not seeing this in the OP?

This is a great question, and there has to be a few former "RCC'ers' on here to maybe give advice?
Maybe ask Kenneth? ........he obviously mixes the two beliefs?
He might have a bit of insight?
Right Ken? ......We work for salvation, and confess our sins all day?

Maybe not?

My dad is a former RCC, he now spends his time trying to show others its true (false) message and teachings.
God Bless.


Yes I was in the RCC for 5 years, but I do not mix the two nor do I preach works for salvation, as in works to earn salvation. The difference though is the fact of a true born again believer will have an active faith, as the Lord works in us and through us to change us. If there is not outer change in how one walks, speaks, and acts then the truth would be the Lord is not in such a person. We are called to walk in righteousness, and through that righteousness it leads to salvation as Paul clearly says. God's righteousness in us will lead a person to confess their wrongs, as they will feel the Godly sorrow within them for grieving the Holy Spirit. If a person feels no remorse, conviction, or sorrow for the wrongs they do then they are not born again.
The bible states in 1 John 1:9,2:1-2 that confession has to be made on future sins to receive remission, these are not my words but God's. Just because others do not like our brothers and sisters of other denominations like the RCC, does not mean their church does not teach some truths of the bible. And only those who have never been it will say they only teach falsehoods as they are lead by other false teachers of hate doctrine. We are to show love to them and show them the full truth, and not a half truth mixed with lies. Remember the spirit of antichrist will do the same, as satan is a deceiver, mixing a little truth with lies to fool you.
 
"...And if the light you think you have is actually darkness, how deep that darkness is?" Mat 6:23

This is the verse that really explains it all for those who are not Christians, but say they are followers of Christ. Thus is what a fake Christian. They've in essence have become a type of "Pharisee." Remember the Pharisees knew the whole first 5 books of the Bible(top that) and did all 613 laws (sort of), but were so caught up in their own light that they didn't even recognize the Messiah. Therefore that light was truly darkness, darkness so deep that for them it was impossible to penetrate light again.

Some fake Christans you can reach after much prayer and others are as Jesus said are, "Children of the devil" and do not want to turn to God. Many just want a free pass to heaven, so they go to church, say the believe in Jesus, and live like they've never step into a church (justifying the sins). There's a huge difference between knowing about God and truly knowing Him. This goes into the verse that says, "Lord, Lord didn't we cast out demon in your name and...."

Be the example and keep asking them questions about, prayer, the Bible, church, sermons, pastors, etc. We know all Christians would love talking about these things, so act accordingly. This along with praying for them can help bring conviction of their sin, realizing that they are not where they should be. If they start getting upset or stop talking to you, keep praying because it's working. I feel this is a more casual way of witnessing to someone who isn't right with God (it's work with me anyway).

As for the self examination (taking the plank out your eye) Kyle Idleman has a great series on the Commandments called Gods at War. You can watch one for free on the web :) The Commandments are our mirror, they show us what sin is, because sometimes we like to justify our selves.
 
We can not know by ones actions if they are not born again or not by watching them over the years?
No, and your own passage shows you don't carefully read the Bible with understanding. You said:

The bible says we will know them by their fruits.

Matthew 7:15-20

You Will Know Them by Their Fruits

15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves
Let's stop right here. Who? "Those who claim to be your brothers and sisters ... "

No, wait. It doesn't say that. It says "false prophets! And what about them?

"16You will know them by their fruits.
Hmm. OK, clarify for me: Whom will we know by their fruits? "Those who claim to be our brothers an ... "

Ah, wait a minute, no it doesn't. You will know "them" -- "them" being those aforementioned false prophets -- by their fruits. Not "everyone I don't think shows any evidence of salvation." Just the false prophets.

You don't have much understanding for a guy who puts himself out there as a "go-to" guy for biblical knowledge, you know?

Go back to the parable of the tares: Some of those are false prophets, yes. Some of them just don't realize they aren't saved. Like our new acquaintance Starcrash here, they grew up in a Christian home, or at least they were told it was. They went to church. They read the Bible. But they never really heard the Gospel. They don't know what they don't know. They are clueless, and they repeat Christianese they've heard all their lives, but without knowledge, without understanding, without hope ...

... without the Holy Spirit. They are empty husks who don't even suspect they are white-washed tombs, death warmed over, lost as the Dutchman, going through life never asking questions, never feeling empty, too empty to feel empty, never wondering anything about anything.

Then there are people who are in the kind of spiritual desert I talked about earlier. Bart Millard, lead singer for MercyMe, admitted several years ago at a concert in Kansas City that he had been in one for two years. He felt cut off, hopeless, sad, and he couldn't find his way out. Well, my know-it-all friend, we all go through those, and if another Christian was introduced to us during those times, and spent any time with us, they would, in all likelihood, come away from the experience wondering what the heck made us think we're saved.

Or, they would do as I said we should do, which is come alongside them, pray for them, offer help, advise, or just an ear, until such time as the desert ends.

You would consider them lost, reject them, maybe give them a good swift kick as you walked away. Christians like you who think you "know" the spiritual condition of those around you make me want to puke. Those such as yourself are what is wrong with the church. You're holier-than-thou, blessed beyond measure and willing to lord it over all who struggle. Well, get a clue, man! Everyone struggles.

Unless, of course, they are clueless husks. Then they're too dumb to know how dumb they are. They just might go around lording it over everyone else because ... everyone ... um ...

... struggles. But them. Hm. Interesting. Maybe ...

But you'll never ask yourself the question.
 
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knew the whole first 5 books of the Bible(top that) and did all 613 laws (sort of)

I love you in Messiah sister, but I have to say; the pharisees knew the Instructions, but they did not do, not even "sort of"

Mark 7:5-9, "Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him; Why do Your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands? He answered, and said to them: Well has Isayah prophesied of you hypocrites--as it is written: 1This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. But in vain do they worship Me, teaching as doctrine the commandments of men. For laying aside the Law of Yahweh, you hold the tradition of men! Then He said to them: How well you reject the Law of Yahweh, so that you may keep your own tradition!"

Mark 7:13, "Making the Laws of Yahweh of no effect through your tradition you have handed down! And many other similar things you do."

Their whole religion was built on "layering" the Law to MAKE loopholes....

proof out of their own mouths :

exact verse from the mouth of YHWH saying to follow His Instructons:


Deuteronomy 30:11-13, "For this Law which I command you this day is not hidden from you, nor is it beyond your reach. It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask; Who will ascend up into heaven for us, and bring it to us, so that we may hear it and then do it? Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask; Who will cross the sea, and bring it to us, so that we may hear it and then do it?"

After Midrashic interpretation is applied, they come out with :

proof out of their own mouths :

"‘It is not in heaven.’4 What did he mean by this? — Said R. Jeremiah: That the Torah had already been given at Mount Sinai; we pay no attention to a Heavenly Voice" (Baba Metzia 59b)

pure evil, pure rejection of the Laws of YHWH, to even say he pharisees honored or tried to honor His Law is not even close to true.

the pharisees knew the Instructions, but they did not do, not even "sort of"

New International Version Mt 23:2-3
"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach."

King James Bible Mt 23:2-3
"Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not."

Shem Tob's Hebrew Mattithyah
Mattithyah 23:2-3, "The Pharisees and Sages sit upon the seat of Mosheh. Therefore, all that he (Mosheh) says to you, diligently do, but according to thier takanot (reforms) and thier ma'asim (precedents) do not do, because they talk (Torah) but they do not do."



Takanot: reforms or enactments that (falsely) "change or add" to Yahweh's Law.

Ma'asim: acts or deeds that serve as precedents for rabbinic law.

Both Takanot and Ma'asim are laws of the Talmud.
 
No, and your own passage shows you don't carefully read the Bible with understanding. You said:

Let's stop right here. Who? "Those who claim to be your brothers and sisters ... "

No, wait. It doesn't say that. It says "false prophets! And what about them?

Hmm. OK, clarify for me: Whom will we know by their fruits? "Those who claim to be our brothers an ... "

Ah, wait a minute, no it doesn't. You will know "them" -- "them" being those aforementioned false prophets -- by their fruits. Not "everyone I don't think shows any evidence of salvation." Just the false prophets.

You don't have much understanding for a guy who puts himself out there as a "go-to" guy for biblical knowledge, you know?

Go back to the parable of the tares: Some of those are false prophets, yes. Some of them just don't realize they aren't saved. Like our new acquaintance Starcrash here, they grew up in a Christian home, or at least they were told it was. They went to church. They read the Bible. But they never really heard the Gospel. They don't know what they don't know. They are clueless, and they repeat Christianese they've heard all their lives, but without knowledge, without understanding, without hope ...

... without the Holy Spirit. They are empty husks who don't even suspect they are white-washed tombs, death warmed over, lost as the Dutchman, going through life never asking questions, never feeling empty, too empty to feel empty, never wondering anything about anything.

Then there are people who are in the kind of spiritual desert I talked about earlier. Bart Millard, lead singer for MercyMe, admitted several years ago at a concert in Kansas City that he had been in one for two years. He felt cut off, hopeless, sad, and he couldn't find his way out. Well, my know-it-all friend, we all go through those, and if another Christian was introduced to us during those times, and spent any time with us, they would, in all likelihood, come away from the experience wondering what the heck made us think we're saved.

Or, they would do as I said we should do, which is come alongside them, pray for them, offer help, advise, or just an ear, until such time as the desert ends.

You would consider them lost, reject them, maybe give them a good swift kick as you walked away. Christians like you who think you "know" the spiritual condition of those around you make me want to puke. Those such as yourself are what is wrong with the church. You're holier-than-thou, blessed beyond measure and willing to lord it over all who struggle. Well, get a clue, man! Everyone struggles.

Unless, of course, they are clueless husks. Then they're too dumb to know how dumb they are. They just might go around lording it over everyone else because ... everyone ... um ...

... struggles. But them. Hm. Interesting. Maybe ...

But you'll never ask yourself the question.


Here in is the problem though is because many say they are Christians when they are not.
The bible is saying they are false prophets and false teachers, and you will know this by watching their actions, speech, and works they produce (fruit). You will know a true brother and sister in Christ from a false Christian by their actions.
Read 1 John chapters 2-4 as John breaks it down to show how one knows rather they are a true Christian or not, as by walking in those standards John shows that we are in Christ and He is in us.

So by your understanding a person who calls themselves a brother or sister in Christ that continues to live a homosexual lifestyle, non-marital sex, giving into other worldly/fleshly lusts is still a true brother and sister in Christ for salvation???


This is not true as the bible clearly states that you would put off, destroy, and stop living in these desires and ways because the Lord working in you through the Holy Spirit to change them. If there is no change in a persons life, and they continue to do those things then they are not born again. They are still walking in darkness, giving into their sins and obeying their lusts and not obeying the Lord.
1 Corinthians 5 even states that one who refuses to give up their sinful ways are to be cast out of the church, so that they do not corrupt and lead others to thinking that living in a sinful lifestyle is acceptable. Knowing one by their fruits, means knowing them by their actions, deeds, and how they treat others. A true born again believer will walk in love toward all others, as even Paul gives a clear list of how to know the fruits of a true believer from a false believer.



[h=1]Galatians 5:19-26[/h]19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,[a] fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.




22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.
 
To answer the first question, I stated it above in a response to Reborn: to argue. I like debate, and nothing makes me better at it like practice. I'm well-versed in the bible, and religion is something that I spend a lot of time thinking about. I used to visit atheist forums and found plenty of irrational atheists to argue against, but my bias makes such a practice painful. I'd rather argue with irrational theists, because their irrationality doesn't cause me any cognitive dissonance. Still, it would be nice to meet people who understand reason better. Occasionally I do, but rational people are as sparse on a Christian forum as they are on an atheist forum.

So: what do I think about Christians willing to go to gory deaths? Nothing, really. Even if you grant the bible truth, you'll see that the prophets of Baal would cut themselves for the sake of their belief (in their challenge against Elijah on Mount Carmel). Martyrs aren't specific to Christianity, nor are they particularly rare. The apostles clearly believed 'til their death, but no amount of belief makes something that's false become true.

Evidence would come in the form of "here's how Christianity better accounts for the things we observe than Atheism does". For example, if Christians really spoke to God, debates over what a piece of scripture really means would be quick and easy. Every Christian would simply pray, God would correct those who were wrong, and there would be an instant consensus. What we see instead are people arguing the same way that they would in a political debate, or a philosophical debate, or any argument which depends largely on personal interpretation. These debates aren't any different than those I saw in atheist forums, and I promise they're the same in Muslim forums. If this part of the Christian hypothesis were true, then Christian forums would differ from all the others that don't have a "divine moderator". An atheistic interpretation makes better sense, in which all forums act alike because they don't have such a variable as a real god.

Sorry to hijack the thread again

I think you have missed the significance completely of the point I made on martyrs.
Sure martyrs exist everywhere, but here is the issue: all of them do it because they believe passionately in whatever cause. Nobody would do it otherwise.

The problem comes in a "first generation" martyrdom for those who actually created the myth. Therefore they know it is not true, so by definition cannot believe it and therefore would not martyr themselves for something they know to be a lie. And that is true of the apostle martyrs. Either they saw jesus resurrected, or they created a fraudulent conspiracy they know to be a lie: the very kind of cognitive dissonance you refer, for which therefore they would not martyr themselves. It is a powerful argument, yes?

My question was a philosophical one on evidence. History records that people in general and scientists in particular are wholly unobjective when it comes to evidence for things they do not like, are you?. Demonstrated amply in Carl Sagan's statement often quoted by atheist scienctists "extraordinary evidence needs extraordinary proof" so setting the bar height for things they do not like, however high it has to be to avoid letting such evidence in

And does the explanation need to account for all observation? Surely a single piece of evidence that defies scientific explanation but confirms theist interpretation is sufficient to be evidence for theist model? I am asking to what extent you trust science and scientists, and whether you are objective on evidence?.
 
Wasn't it the arch bishop who was baffled that the same amount of christians were killed during the plague as non believers?

Sometimes more Christians are killed in life than non-Christians. That means nothing regarding scientific experiments supposedly disproving the power of prayer. A few weeks ago the Northeast (in America) was supposed to endure a snow storm dumping three feet of snow across the entire region. I prayed and asked God to weaken the storm. Rather than receiving three feet of snow, we received three inches.
 
Romans 1:21-32

1 Corinthians 5

2 Corinthians 11:13-15

1 Timothy 1:3-11

James 2:14-24

Matthew 7:15-23


So these verses are all about "fake Christians". You know those Christians that are like, "I love Jesus" then they go off and do whatever they want. Or the Christians that think they are doing everything right when clearly they are not like for example they don't read their Bible...ever.

Are these people completely lost? Is there any hope for them? Also how should we witness to them? And lastly how to we "take the plank out of our own eye" before doing so? I feel like that would be a necessary step so that we don't end up like the Pharisees.

Anyways, other Bible verses on this topic are also appreciated as well as comments or thoughts on any or all of the above verses!

Thanks so much! :-)
How are you sure that you are not a fake christian?

You wrote:
You know those Christians that are like, "I love Jesus" then they go off and do whatever they want.
Don't you believe that when a person becomes regenerated that there is a great change in that person's heart/mind affecting his will to the point that he now lives by the principle of wanting to please God? Doing what he wants is then God wants. Or is it about a set of self chosen rules that we are to abide by, even we don't really like to do so?

You might want to take a look at and have a deeper thought of that.
 
Matthew 7:15-20, (NKJV)15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

seek HIM

Matt 7:7-14, "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you: For everyone who asks, receives; and he who seeks, finds; and to him who knocks, it will be opened. For what man is there among you who, if his son asks for bread, would give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, would give him a serpent? If you then, being sinful, know how to give righteous gifts to your children, how much more will your Father Who is in heaven give righteous gifts to those who ask Him? Therefore, all things you want men to do to you, do the same to them, for this is (the intent) Law and the Prophets. Enter in through the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are those who go that way. Because straight is the gate, and narrow is the way which leads to life, and few there are who find it."


Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, Yahchanan, saw the holy city, Yahweh Shammah, coming down from Yahweh out of heaven, prepared as brides adorned for their husbands. And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of Yahweh is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and Yahweh Himself will be with them, and be their Father.

Ezekiyl 48:35, "The distance around the city will be eighteen thousand measures; and the name of the city from that day will be: YAHWEH SHAMMAH (Yahweh Is There)."

Revelation 21:4-8 And Yahweh will wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there will be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, nor will there be any more pain, for the former things have passed away. And He Who sat upon the throne, said: Behold, I make all things new. And He said to me: Write, for these words are true and faithful.And He said to me: It is done! I am Aleph and Tau, the Beginning and the End. I will give to him who thirsts of the fountain of the water of life freely. He who overcomes will inherit all things; and I will be his Father, and he will be My son. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and worshipers of false gods, and all liars, will have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone--which is the second death."

Malakyah 4:1-4,"For, behold, the day comes that will burn like an oven; and all the proud, yes, and all who do wickedly, will be stubble--the day that comes will burn them up, says Yahweh of hosts; and it will leave them neither root nor branch. But for you who reverence My Name, the light of righteousness will arise with healing in its wings; and you will go out, leaping like calves released from the stall. And you will tread down the wicked; for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I will do this, says Yahweh of hosts. Remember the Law of Mosheh My servant, which I commanded through him in Horeb for all Israyl, with the statutes and judgments."

same Law we new perfect High Priest after the order of Melchizedek


Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, Yahchanan, saw the holy city, Yahweh Shammah, coming down from Yahweh out of heaven, prepared as brides adorned for their husbands. And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of Yahweh is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and Yahweh Himself will be with them, and be their Father.

Revelation 21:9-27, "And there came to me one of the seven malakim who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying: Come, I will show you the brides, the Lamb's wives. And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me that great city, the holy Yahweh Shammah, descending out of heaven from Yahweh, Having the glory of Yahweh. And her light was similar to a most precious stone, just like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; And had a great and high wall, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve malakim, and names written upon them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israyl: On the east, three gates; on the north, three gates; on the south, three gates, and on the west, three gates. And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. And he who talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and its gates, and its wall. And the city lies four square, and the length is as large as the breadth. And he measured the city with the reed: twelve thousand stadia; about 1,500 miles. The length, and the breadth, and the height of it are equal. And he measured its wall: a hundred and forty-four cubits, according to human measurements, that the malak was using; about 216 feet. And the construction of its wall was of jasper; and the city was pure gold, like clear glass. The foundations of the wall of the city were adorned with all kinds of precious stones: the first foundation was jasper, the second sapphire, the third agate, the fourth beryl, The fifth emerald, the sixth ruby, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth onyx, the ninth topaz, the tenth turquoise, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst. And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; each individual gate was of one pearl. And the street of the city was pure gold, as it were, transparent as glass. And I saw no pagan sanctuary in it; for THE Tabernacle OF YAHWEH, the body of Messiah, was in it. And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it; for the glory of Yahweh does enlighten it, and its lamp is the Lamb. And the nations of those who are saved will walk in the light of it. And the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honor into it. And the gates of it will not be shut at all by day, for there will be no night there. And they will bring the glory and honor of the nations into it. And there will by no means enter into it anything that defiles, nor works abomination, neither a lie; but only those who are written in the Lamb's Book of Life."

Revelation 3:5, "He who overcomes, the same will be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name from The Book of Life, but I will confess his name before My Father and before His malakim."

John (Yahchanan) 15:4-6, "Abide in Me, and I in you. Just as the branch cannot produce fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, produces much fruit; but without Me, you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away like a branch, and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned."
 
So these verses are all about "fake Christians". Matthew 7:15-23
These verses especially come to mind for me. Matthew 7:15 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them. 21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the WILL of My Father in heaven. *(What is the will of the Father in heaven that these people failed to do? John 6:40 - For my Father's WILL is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day).

22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonderful works?' 23 And then I will declare to them, 'I NEVER KNEW YOU depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'
 
Fake christians will suffer the fat of non christians. Only their fate will be worse, because they heard the truth and rejected it, thinking they accepted it.