A woman as a Pastor? Does it make it right if there is a need for pastors?

[kaylagrl]

Kaylagrl,

We usually have very similar positions on most issues; so I am surprised to find myself debating with you on this.

God has, I believe, indicated that He wants the pastorate of the churches to be a male role . This desire on God's part has nothing to do with ability or availability, in both of which a woman may be superior to most men. The issue is accountability.

1 Ti 2:12-14
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
KJV

If a congregation is having difficulty finding a pastor, it is not only possible, but likely that God has a purpose in it; since He is undoubtedly able to supply the needs of a Church as easily as He supplies the needs of individuals. Rachel, because of God's revelation to her, thought she was acting in God's interest when she urged Jacob to deceive Isaac; but what she did was wrong. When God reveals his design; it is not up to us to have a better idea regardless how much ability we bring to its execution!

Yes,we do usually agree.I have other friends on here that I respect their opinion but I dont always agree with them.We have gone over this again and again so its not going to help to repeat it.But for your benefit I will.I believe was talking to the women in that church specifically,not all women forever.He later talks about women praying and prophesying so if he forbade women to speak what did they do,cluck? Need to laugh because this thread has become ridiculous. Adam was not deceived,Eve was but Adam still sinned and was punished for it. Are you saying women are not to be trusted because Eve was deceived and transgressed?

I have traveled in many,many churches and many of them were in small towns.Sometimes there was no man to be pastor and there was a woman pastor.I know some wonderful female pastors and have several in my family.Now I dont want to be too harsh with you Marc but some men keep saying women are committing a sin when they preach.I simply dont agree.But my question is this: How come men are not stepping up and filling the gap when pastors are needed? Women are stepping up and keeping church doors open.Why aren't men being obedient to the call? If men are there to do it,and God is calling men and not women then why are they disobeying the call on their lives?! Who is in sin now?

 

[ChosenbyHim]

No it does not make right because it messes with God's order.

God has spoken clearly on this matter. Women are not to usurp the authority over the man. And they are to learn in silence. If a woman has a question, then she needs to ask her husband at home.

And no matter how many women on here disagree with the word of God on this issue, these women are still wrong. And the word of God is ALWAYS Right.

The office of a pastor/bishop is only for a man to fill. And not a woman. There are many things which a woman can do in a ministry, but pastoring and shepherding the flock is certainly not one of them.

 

[Utah]

Does being a woman make one false?

I'm sorry but this thread seems to be bringing out the worst in all of us. Many not showing the love of Christ (not directed at you Fred!) and many do appear to have a genuine dislike of women. Why do some folks fear successful women? I don't know really...there are worse things going on in the world right now.

Don't sugarcoat the issue sister; call it for what it is. Freddie Boy needs our prayers. His misogynistic gospel is on full display as he shares nothing but contempt with every post. Dude needs healing.

 

[MarcR]

Yes,we do usually agree.I have other friends on here that I respect their opinion but I dont always agree with them.We have gone over this again and again so its not going to help to repeat it.But for your benefit I will.I believe was talking to the women in that church specifically,not all women forever.He later talks about women praying and prophesying so if he forbade women to speak what did they do,cluck? Need to laugh because this thread has become ridiculous. Adam was not deceived,Eve was but Adam still sinned and was punished for it. Are you saying women are not to be trusted because Eve was deceived and transgressed?

I have traveled in many,many churches and many of them were in small towns.Sometimes there was no man to be pastor and there was a woman pastor.I know some wonderful female pastors and have several in my family.Now I dont want to be too harsh with you Marc but some men keep saying women are committing a sin when they preach.I simply dont agree.But my question is this: How come men are not stepping up and filling the gap when pastors are needed? Women are stepping up and keeping church doors open.Why aren't men being obedient to the call? If men are there to do it,and God is calling men and not women then why are they disobeying the call on their lives?! Who is in sin now?

kaylagrl,

I had dear friends who were called to a Church in Falls City , OR [The Free Methodist Church ordains couples to the mimistry]
At first the husband preached and the wife took charge of women's and children's ministries. When her husband died and the church couldn't find a male pastor, she stepped into the pastor role including preaching. I certainly don't believe that she sinned.

I have no question that a woman is capable of doing anything a man can do except father children.

My only reservation here is that devoted believers often get impatient with God's design and think they have a better way.
It is never the case!

 

[JackH]

This is Christianchat, not western political philosophy chat. I don't believe that women have a God-given inalienable right to vote. Men didn't all have the right to vote until a decade before women's suffrage in the US, anyway. It's not like men were all voting for centuries. Only a land owning class could vote. And democracy is from pagan Greece, not the New Jerusalem.

If women hadn't gotten the vote, who knows? We might have ended up with a better government than we have now. We might not have the huge government programs or the politicians in favor of letting babies be murdered in the womb, or the homosexual agenda. One of the concerns with letting women vote is that they might vote as a group, and in history, we see that much of the Feminist movement has backed an evil, baby killing agenda.

But we are only foreigners here. Our citizenship is in another city whose Builder and Maker is God.

Is there a 'right' to pastor? This type of American political philosophy is dangerous when interpreting the Bible. Pastoring a church isn't about having a 'right' like everyone else. We are to follow the Lord's will. If solid Biblical arguments are used against women overseeing a church, and those same arguments are used to argue women shouldn't vote, then consider whether women should vote or not. But we shouldn't reject what the Lord has revealed based on secular political philosophy.

There is so much very wrong with this post made yesterday.

Hey MarkR, you "liked" this post.

Do you agree with what is being said here?

 

[MarcR]

There is so much very wrong with this post made yesterday.

Hey MarkR, you "liked" this post.

Do you agree with what is being said here?

Not entirely.

I agree that if people had inalienable rights there would be far more equity in the world.
I certainly do not advocate subjugation or domination of women by men.

When Jesus said "blessed are the meek" he was not advocating behaving like doormats. True meekness consists in choosing not assert one's rights (real or perceived) in the interest of promoting the Work we are called to.

 

[kaylagrl]

kaylagrl,

I had dear friends who were called to a Church in Falls City , OR [The Free Methodist Church ordains couples to the mimistry]
At first the husband preached and the wife took charge of women's and children's ministries. When her husband died and the church couldn't find a male pastor, she stepped into the pastor role including preaching. I certainly don't believe that she sinned.

I have no question that a woman is capable of doing anything a man can do except father children.

My only reservation here is that devoted believers often get impatient with God's design and think they have a better way.
It is never the case!

No your friend did not sin. She did what she felt called to do.If there is a male pastor that is preferable.But that is not always the case and God will use who He wills.It amazes me how many on here seem so against the OT,we dont live under the law sister! They almost act like the OT is not part of the Bible.But they are so hard lined on this issue it just makes me shake my head.I dont understand it.

 

[VioletReigns]

Originally Posted by VioletReigns

Brother Marc, thank you for exhibiting a Christ-like spirit of meekness and graciousness, as opposed to some of the men here who are twisted in knots of anger, pride and bitterness. I have no interest in hearing anything further from these resentful men. But to you I am willing to acknowledge that I honestly am not 100% clear on the roles of women in the church.

I know that I Timothy 2:11 & 12 is referring to husbands and wives. It states that the wife should not Lord over the husband. But no other place in the scripture teaches that all women should be under authority of all men in the church. If this passage in I Timothy is to be interpreted the traditional way, this makes a different and unusual pattern of submission. The NT consistently teaches that a wife should be under the authority of her husband and that fits the larger context of this scripture much better.

In I Timothy chapter 3 it talks about church leadership. There is where I am getting confused. It talks of bishops and deacons having "one wife" - so obviously it's speaking to men. But then in Romans 16 Paul mentions Phoebe who is a servant, which is interpreted "deacon" (deaconess?) and minister.

So now I'm left wondering about all the roles/titles in the modern day church:

bishop ἐπισκοπῆς means overseer [understood by some as equivalent to pastor and by others as pastors' pastor
pastor ποίμεν means shepherd He who is charged with the spiritual safety and well-being of a church
reverend in my opinion a fancy title some pastors pompously apply to themselves
minister διάκονος means servant one who concerns him/her self with another's spiritual or material needs
deacon διάκονος means servant one who concerns him/her self with another's spiritual or material needs
prophet/prophetess προφήτας one who proclaims God's word either from direct revelation or from Scripture [some might disagree with me on this] if done before the assembled church this may be construed as preaching elsewhere as witnessing.
priest in my opinion one who appeals to God on behalf of another. In OT times through animal sacrifice. in NT times .................by intercessory prayer.
teacher in my opinion one who imparts truth to another whether spiritual or secular

Brother Marc, are you (or anybody else on this site who is humbly submitted to the Lord) able to define each of these roles in a way that I can see clearly?

Violet

I hope this is helpful to you and perhaps others.

I neglected to mention that my answers to your questions are embedded in the quotation
I have now used a contrasting color. This explanation is more for other's benefit than yours since you know what you wrote.

Thank you, Brother Marc. This is very helpful to me. And I certainly appreciate your gracious attitude in sharing your response. There are many men on this site who could learn from and benefit by your Christ-like example. Glory to God!

 

[VioletReigns]

Not entirely.

I agree that if people had inalienable rights there would be far more equity in the world.
I certainly do not advocate subjugation or domination of women by men.

When Jesus said "blessed are the meek" he was not advocating behaving like doormats. True meekness consists in choosing not assert one's rights (real or perceived) in the interest of promoting the Work we are called to.

As hard as this truth is to swallow, it is the very truth that sets a man/woman free in Christ Jesus. When we give up "even our life also" to Jesus, and abandon our rights for His sake, the Holy Spirit alone is in control and THAT is the point where God does the impossible that men cannot do. Our pride is the hardest thing to let go, and it is the LAST thing we want to surrender to Christ. But it must go.

I totally am NOT saying be a doormat. Hardly! Jesus was nobody's doormat and I will not be either. I am saying, in a situation of crisis or struggle, between depending on my own understanding and emotional impulse or trusting God to work out a matter, my faith is in the Lord Jesus alone. And in order for us to know and recognize the Lord's Voice in a matter, it is helpful to know the Word of God in Truth and to have an intimate relationship with Jesus Christ.

I will never put my faith in my understanding or any other man's understanding of the Word of God. I take everything I hear to the Lord Jesus and ask Him if a thing is truth or error. He said ask for wisdom and He will give it. There isn't anyone on this site who has cornered the market on Truth. But there are many godly people here who love the Lord and hear His Voice and who can teach and preach the Word and are helping to build up the body of believers in Christ.

Those angry CC members who spew hate and who obviously are out of synch spiritually (I'm referring to those who don't even recognize their own bitterness and respond in self-righteousness with their every post), are in serious need of correction and I wouldn't heed their off-base interjections. They tarnish this site for the rest of the members who actually are the ones God is using to edify the body of Christ. Mt advice is to weed out the extremist jargon and glean the words of those who are speaking the truth in love and patience.

 

[kaylagrl]

This is Christianchat, not western political philosophy chat. I don't believe that women have a God-given inalienable right to vote. Men didn't all have the right to vote until a decade before women's suffrage in the US, anyway. It's not like men were all voting for centuries. Only a land owning class could vote. And democracy is from pagan Greece, not the New Jerusalem.

If women hadn't gotten the vote, who knows? We might have ended up with a better government than we have now. We might not have the huge government programs or the politicians in favor of letting babies be murdered in the womb, or the homosexual agenda. One of the concerns with letting women vote is that they might vote as a group, and in history, we see that much of the Feminist movement has backed an evil, baby killing agenda.

But we are only foreigners here. Our citizenship is in another city whose Builder and Maker is God.

Is there a 'right' to pastor? This type of American political philosophy is dangerous when interpreting the Bible. Pastoring a church isn't about having a 'right' like everyone else. We are to follow the Lord's will. If solid Biblical arguments are used against women overseeing a church, and those same arguments are used to argue women shouldn't vote, then consider whether women should vote or not. But we shouldn't reject what the Lord has revealed based on secular political philosophy.

Actually America is a republic,not a democracy.


A pure democracy operates by direct majority vote of the people. When an issue is to be decided, the entire population votes on it; the majority wins and rules. A republic differs in that the general population elects representatives who then pass laws to govern the nation. A democracy is the rule by majority feeling (what the Founders described as a "mobocracy" [SUP]12[/SUP]); a republic is rule by law.


Yes there are feminists who vote but there are also Christian woman who vote against abortion and gay marriage.I hardly think its fair to blame women for that. I mean if we let baboons vote instead of men maybe it would be a better country.What if? Hardly fair to say giving women the vote ruined the country.No stats to back that up and rather a ridiculous thing to say.And offensive to us women who take the time to go and vote against abortion etc. Never heard such nonsense.

 

[VioletReigns]

I mean if we let baboons vote instead of men maybe it would be a better country. What if?

Kaylagrl, you cracked me up!!! rofl

 

[Starcrash]

There's an obvious reason why this thread goes on for 41 pages. The bible is clear and unequivocal about whether or not women should become pastors -- no, they shouldn't. However, common sense would dictate that this represents "old" thinking, the kind of pro-slavery thinking you see in the book of Philemon (in which Paul returns an escaped slave to the slave master, his "brother in Christ"). It's rather embarrassing and most people involved would rather that it just didn't take up space in the New Testament.

So you have Christians who take the bible literally, pointing to the verse that condemns woman pastors. And you have Christians who are rightly embarrassed by such scripture and are trying to get the others to that point of denial that most of you have reached about the "women shouldn't speak up in church" scripture. So it's no surprise that this should be such a contentious issue.

 

[AngelFrog]

I think there is always a need for pastors. Especially in this world that seems to be backsliding toward only God knows.

I also think God calls those whom he will to lead the flock that seeks a shepherd. Be they female or male. God is not sexist.

I went to church with a friend. She told me that her grandparents ran the church. I did not think that her grandma was the pastor. I have heard of women being pastors but have never seen one. I may have said something that made her a little upset. She said to me if men were doing what they were suppose to be doing taking care of their families and being men there would be no dissicuson or need for women pastors! Does it make it right if there is a need for pastors?

 

[JackH]

There's an obvious reason why this thread goes on for 41 pages. The bible is clear and unequivocal about whether or not women should become pastors -- no, they shouldn't.

Prove it.

Nobody else on this thread has been able to prove it.

But let's see what you got.

My guess would be same old same old and not much else.

 

[fredjames]

Don't sugarcoat the issue sister; call it for what it is. Freddie Boy needs our prayers. His misogynistic gospel is on full display as he shares nothing but contempt with every post. Dude needs healing.

Sorry i do not need a 'demon's' prayer. Save it for your 'self' and the 'demon' inside of you hiding, for you desperately and definitely need prayers for your carnal/flesh and it's fruits ignorance and arrogance and to cast out that 'demon' from inside of you.

i pray GOD the FATHER of our LORD JESUS CHRIST send HIS servants to do that for you.

i have a word for you after all of that by the will of GOD takes place in your life and it is written that;

"Your sins are forgiven thee , sin no more, or something worst shall happen to you."

 

[phil112]

Prove it.

Nobody else on this thread has been able to prove it.

But let's see what you got.

My guess would be same old same old and not much else.

It's been proven time and again. But you, for one, being a liar as you are, reject clear truth. I don't know the reason for everyone else disbelieving clear scripture.

From the old testament to the new. It is not, and never has been, acceptable in God's eyes for women to lead - either from the pulpit nor the governors house.

Isaiah 3:12 "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths."

1 Corinthians 14:34 "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law."

 

[RyBread]

Men and women have different, God appointed roles. It doesn't make either of them more righteous than the other. We all have different spiritual gifts and authorities given by God. To want one that someone else has would be covetous. Be humble, be thankful, be happy.

 

[Mary96]

From my own research into if woman can be pastor or not.


Can they be? Certainly.


Does the Bible prohibit such things? Absolutely.


Can one be a Christian and disobey a clear instruction from the Bible? Certainly.


Personally, I would not join a congregation or sect that permits women to act as pastors because it is indisputably contrary to Biblical instruction.


But that said…


Women have the unique privilege to teach their children who God is by raising them under the admonition of the bible.


Women are teachers just not in the church! doesn't mean they aren't capable, God just wants them teaching in a different context.

 

[jkalyna]

It's been proven time and again. But you, for one, being a liar as you are, reject clear truth. I don't know the reason for everyone else disbelieving clear scripture.

From the old testament to the new. It is not, and never has been, acceptable in God's eyes for women to lead - either from the pulpit nor the governors house.

Isaiah 3:12 "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths."

1 Corinthians 14:34 "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law."

I'll post this here, hope no one reads it, as to not start trouble, but, leading as a pastor, is a*tremendous*responsibility, God told Adam to name all the animals not Eve, and if giving this JOb to a women, then this is what is happening in the churches as now, the gay women are leading, because it is not acceptable according to the scriptures, and then the man should put the apron on, and lead the home, in reverse roles. My right to my beliefs. Ty. and am not looking for a fight.

 

[kaylagrl]

I'll post this here, hope no one reads it, as to not start trouble, but, leading as a pastor, is a*tremendous*responsibility, God told Adam to name all the animals not Eve, and if giving this JOb to a women, then this is what is happening in the churches as now, the gay women are leading, because it is not acceptable according to the scriptures, and then the man should put the apron on, and lead the home, in reverse roles. My right to my beliefs. Ty. and am not looking for a fight.

If you post in a discussion forum expect people to respond to it.You have a right and so do others to disagree.Thats what discussion is all about.