God is not Mysterious
- Thread starter Starcrash
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
So you know for a fact that god answered your prayers and gave you a place to stay. It couldn't be anything else but gods work...
When I ask why god ignores everyone in the third world who pray for the same kind of treatment, you'll no doubt say god is mysterious.
Unless of course you can provide a reason why he would answer your prayers and ignore other peoples prayers who are in worst situations than yourself.
I'm sure Joseph Fritzels daughter prayed every day for somewhere else to live while she was locked up, raped and abused for 25 years... But got nothing! You ask for a house and bam, its there!
When I ask why god ignores everyone in the third world who pray for the same kind of treatment, you'll no doubt say god is mysterious.
Unless of course you can provide a reason why he would answer your prayers and ignore other peoples prayers who are in worst situations than yourself.
I'm sure Joseph Fritzels daughter prayed every day for somewhere else to live while she was locked up, raped and abused for 25 years... But got nothing! You ask for a house and bam, its there!
M
I witness on a daily bases being that I attend a secular college in the inner city. I purpoaely take classes where athesist and agonistics are or I think would be. I go on a Christian Site to fellowship with other believes and uplift them in the faith, because I deal with the unsaved a lot. I admitted that every human being contains bias. I'm not exempt from humanity. I was making you aware of that through your own bias, you recognized mine already right? I know prayer works because I'm living it and have seen waaaayyyy too much not to know. Repeat, know, not to be confused to know about, actually know.
I really could talk to you about each one of your arguments for hours, days, weeks, but for what? If I could give you all the reason in the world to come to God it would not matter, because being that you've been on a Christian website for years and still do not understand the attributes of God, proves the vanity of discussing it.
I'm not a Muslim not because they haven't provided enough evidence, again I studied and study religions. It's that there evidence does not match the character of a true pure, holy God of which is claimed and the Koran's writings, etc. I again could discus this for ages. But what's the point of even bring this about anyway? Neither you or I am a Muslim.
Not that I couldn't discuss all this if you really wanted to know. I just know better, you do not want to know. Your way of obtaining happiness debating with Christians for your own self fulfilment. But why? When I was an atheist I could careless. Maybe you are searching for answers, hoping that someone can show you something you haven't heard, give you truth, instead of bias and opinion. Fill that emptiness you have, or your just laughing at the fact I even went that far.
I'm 20 years old and been saved almost 5 years. Does someone really spend their youth away on something that isn't real to them, that isn't worth it? No, and again no. Am I immune to a skeptical generation? No and again No. I chose to come to God, I chose to go against my humanity and surrender it to divinity. Surrendering isn't easy and it doesn't get easier. I've went through the worst, but it's been worth it! All those nights praying/fasting for atheist and agnostics in my schools, all those years of hearing and being told the most awful things by those very people. Having no friends and rejected by all. It was more than worth it. Why?
If you really want to know the answers to your discussion, you can message me on each part and I will take the time to answer them. If you don't? Carry on, I will be praying/fasting for you (as much as you want like it) and you can answer this question yourself one day. I hope it's here rather than on judgment day.... your choice
I really could talk to you about each one of your arguments for hours, days, weeks, but for what? If I could give you all the reason in the world to come to God it would not matter, because being that you've been on a Christian website for years and still do not understand the attributes of God, proves the vanity of discussing it.
I'm not a Muslim not because they haven't provided enough evidence, again I studied and study religions. It's that there evidence does not match the character of a true pure, holy God of which is claimed and the Koran's writings, etc. I again could discus this for ages. But what's the point of even bring this about anyway? Neither you or I am a Muslim.
Not that I couldn't discuss all this if you really wanted to know. I just know better, you do not want to know. Your way of obtaining happiness debating with Christians for your own self fulfilment. But why? When I was an atheist I could careless. Maybe you are searching for answers, hoping that someone can show you something you haven't heard, give you truth, instead of bias and opinion. Fill that emptiness you have, or your just laughing at the fact I even went that far.
I'm 20 years old and been saved almost 5 years. Does someone really spend their youth away on something that isn't real to them, that isn't worth it? No, and again no. Am I immune to a skeptical generation? No and again No. I chose to come to God, I chose to go against my humanity and surrender it to divinity. Surrendering isn't easy and it doesn't get easier. I've went through the worst, but it's been worth it! All those nights praying/fasting for atheist and agnostics in my schools, all those years of hearing and being told the most awful things by those very people. Having no friends and rejected by all. It was more than worth it. Why?
If you really want to know the answers to your discussion, you can message me on each part and I will take the time to answer them. If you don't? Carry on, I will be praying/fasting for you (as much as you want like it) and you can answer this question yourself one day. I hope it's here rather than on judgment day.... your choice
First of all, I am not here to question anyones faith... Only their claims.
Secondly, I am questioning that prayer only seems to work in first world countries and for minor, easily achievable requests.
Healing and prayer abilities seem to coincidentally be limited by the boundaries of modern medicine.
Its not a question of yes, no or maybe. It seems to be more like "something fairly regular happened in my life.. Must have been god. But he won't save a more needy starving kid in the third world because he is mysterious"
Can you see how it looks to non believers?
Secondly, I am questioning that prayer only seems to work in first world countries and for minor, easily achievable requests.
Healing and prayer abilities seem to coincidentally be limited by the boundaries of modern medicine.
Its not a question of yes, no or maybe. It seems to be more like "something fairly regular happened in my life.. Must have been god. But he won't save a more needy starving kid in the third world because he is mysterious"
Can you see how it looks to non believers?
God won't force you He gave you free will and did not make you a robot to do everything in an automatic way. You get to choose what to do. Would you rather be forced to serve a higher being or would you rather have a choice to do so. God could have made you a mindless robot but He gave you a brain to think with and to be able to choose how your life would be lived. You can serve yourself and do and believe what you like or you can choose to serve God and be selfless and help others around you and choose to love the God that created you. The choice is yours that is what free will is all about making choices.
J
What makes you think He doesn't answer their prayers lol. Suffering exists all around the world and soon it will come to America in full force as well. I look forward to being able to share in the persecution of the saints for I do not love this life.
While I may live in America, I am basically the poorest of the poor. I have even had 2 children taken from me.
First of all, here is why you are having such a hard time understanding this:
You are focusing on this life, as if it is the only one we live and once we die, we are done.
Your idea of the "ultimate good" is for people to have comfort and prosperity on this earth and in this life.
But that is not God's ultimate good, nor should it be any Christians idea of the ultimate good.
The ultimate good that can happen here is a persons spiritual birth and spiritual maturity:
Mark 8:31-36
And he began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders and the chief priests and the scribes and be killed, and after three days rise again. 32 And he said this plainly. And Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. 33 But turning and seeing his disciples, he rebuked Peter and said, “Get behind me, Satan! For you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man.”
34 And calling the crowd to him with his disciples, he said to them, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. 35 For whoever would save his life[d] will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake and the gospel's will save it. 36 For what does it profit a man to gain the whole world and forfeit his soul? 37 For what can a man give in return for his soul?
The Bible has alot to say about this:
Luke 6:20-26
20 And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said:
“Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God.
21 “Blessed are you who are hungry now, for you shall be satisfied.
“Blessed are you who weep now, for you shall laugh.
22 “Blessed are you when people hate you and when they exclude you and revile you and spurn your name as evil, on account of the Son of Man! 23 Rejoice in that day, and leap for joy, for behold, your reward is great in heaven; for so their fathers did to the prophets.
24 “But woe to you who are rich, for you have received your consolation.
25 “Woe to you who are full now, for you shall be hungry.
“Woe to you who laugh now, for you shall mourn and weep.
26 “Woe to you, when all people speak well of you, for so their fathers did to the false prophets.
James 5:1-6
Come now, you rich, weep and howl for the miseries that are coming upon you. 2 Your riches have rotted and your garments are moth-eaten. 3 Your gold and silver have corroded, and their corrosion will be evidence against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have laid up treasure in the last days. 4 Behold, the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, are crying out against you, and the cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of hosts. 5 You have lived on the earth in luxury and in self-indulgence. You have fattened your hearts in a day of slaughter. 6 You have condemned and murdered the righteous person. He does not resist you.
Luke 16:10-13
“One who is faithful in a very little is also faithful in much, and one who is dishonest in a very little is also dishonest in much. 11 If then you have not been faithful in the unrighteous wealth, who will entrust to you the true riches? 12 And if you have not been faithful in that which is another's, who will give you that which is your own? 13 No servant can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.”
Luke 12:15-20
“Take care, and be on your guard against all covetousness, for one's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions.” 16 And he told them a parable, saying, “The land of a rich man produced plentifully, 17 and he thought to himself, ‘What shall I do, for I have nowhere to store my crops?’ 18 And he said, ‘I will do this: I will tear down my barns and build larger ones, and there I will store all my grain and my goods. 19 And I will say to my soul, “Soul, you have ample goods laid up for many years; relax, eat, drink, be merry.”’ 20 But God said to him, ‘Fool! This night your soul is required of you, and the things you have prepared, whose will they be?’ 21 So is the one who lays up treasure for himself and is not rich toward God.”
In the first world nations, we have a very serious problem which is just as wide spread as the poverty in the third world nations. The following verses summarize it quite well:
Revelation 3:14-22
14 “And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: ‘The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God's creation.
15 “‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! 16 So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth. 17 For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing, not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked. 18 I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, so that you may see. 19 Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent. 20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me. 21 The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne. 22 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’”
Matthew 19:16-30
16 And behold, a man came up to him, saying, “Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?” 17 And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.” 18 He said to him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, 19 Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 20 The young man said to him, “All these I have kept. What do I still lack?” 21 Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” 22 When the young man heard this he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.
23 And Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly, I say to you, only with difficulty will a rich person enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.” 25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?” 26 But Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” 27 Then Peter said in reply, “See, we have left everything and followed you. What then will we have?” 28 Jesus said to them, “Truly, I say to you, in the new world, when the Son of Man will sit on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or lands, for my name's sake, will receive a hundredfold[c] and will inherit eternal life. 30 But many who are first will be last, and the last first.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You see, there is little good that comes from being rich in this life, unless those riches are used to help the poor. If they are not used to help the poor, then the person who has those riches will not like what they hear on the day of the Lord.
If you truly have a heart for the poor and the oppressed, then you should rejoice, for you have some wisdom and righteousness that many (even professing Christians do not). Seek the Lord, and He will answer your questions and doubts regarding the things which seem to be unfair in this world. Then when you find understanding, act in accordance with His will and the love He has given you for the needy. God can do many great things through one with a heart such as yours.
James 4:14
What is your life? For you are a mist that appears for a little time and then vanishes.
Proverbs 29:14
The righteous considereth the cause of the poore: but the wicked regardeth not to know it.
Proverbs 19:17
Whoever is generous to the poor lends to the Lord, and he will repay him for his deed.
Proverbs 14:31
Whoever oppresses a poor man insults his Maker, but he who is generous to the needy honors him.
Proverbs 14:21
Whoever despises his neighbor is a sinner, but blessed is he who is generous to the poor.
Proverbs 21:13
Whoever closes his ear to the cry of the poor will himself call out and not be
answered.
Proverbs 29:7
A righteous man knows the rights of the poor; a wicked man does not understand such knowledge.
While I may live in America, I am basically the poorest of the poor. I have even had 2 children taken from me.
First of all, here is why you are having such a hard time understanding this:
You are focusing on this life, as if it is the only one we live and once we die, we are done.
Your idea of the "ultimate good" is for people to have comfort and prosperity on this earth and in this life.
But that is not God's ultimate good, nor should it be any Christians idea of the ultimate good.
The ultimate good that can happen here is a persons spiritual birth and spiritual maturity:
Mark 8:31-36
And he began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders and the chief priests and the scribes and be killed, and after three days rise again. 32 And he said this plainly. And Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. 33 But turning and seeing his disciples, he rebuked Peter and said, “Get behind me, Satan! For you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man.”
34 And calling the crowd to him with his disciples, he said to them, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. 35 For whoever would save his life[d] will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake and the gospel's will save it. 36 For what does it profit a man to gain the whole world and forfeit his soul? 37 For what can a man give in return for his soul?
The Bible has alot to say about this:
Luke 6:20-26
20 And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said:
“Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God.
21 “Blessed are you who are hungry now, for you shall be satisfied.
“Blessed are you who weep now, for you shall laugh.
22 “Blessed are you when people hate you and when they exclude you and revile you and spurn your name as evil, on account of the Son of Man! 23 Rejoice in that day, and leap for joy, for behold, your reward is great in heaven; for so their fathers did to the prophets.
24 “But woe to you who are rich, for you have received your consolation.
25 “Woe to you who are full now, for you shall be hungry.
“Woe to you who laugh now, for you shall mourn and weep.
26 “Woe to you, when all people speak well of you, for so their fathers did to the false prophets.
James 5:1-6
Come now, you rich, weep and howl for the miseries that are coming upon you. 2 Your riches have rotted and your garments are moth-eaten. 3 Your gold and silver have corroded, and their corrosion will be evidence against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have laid up treasure in the last days. 4 Behold, the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, are crying out against you, and the cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of hosts. 5 You have lived on the earth in luxury and in self-indulgence. You have fattened your hearts in a day of slaughter. 6 You have condemned and murdered the righteous person. He does not resist you.
Luke 16:10-13
“One who is faithful in a very little is also faithful in much, and one who is dishonest in a very little is also dishonest in much. 11 If then you have not been faithful in the unrighteous wealth, who will entrust to you the true riches? 12 And if you have not been faithful in that which is another's, who will give you that which is your own? 13 No servant can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.”
Luke 12:15-20
“Take care, and be on your guard against all covetousness, for one's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions.” 16 And he told them a parable, saying, “The land of a rich man produced plentifully, 17 and he thought to himself, ‘What shall I do, for I have nowhere to store my crops?’ 18 And he said, ‘I will do this: I will tear down my barns and build larger ones, and there I will store all my grain and my goods. 19 And I will say to my soul, “Soul, you have ample goods laid up for many years; relax, eat, drink, be merry.”’ 20 But God said to him, ‘Fool! This night your soul is required of you, and the things you have prepared, whose will they be?’ 21 So is the one who lays up treasure for himself and is not rich toward God.”
In the first world nations, we have a very serious problem which is just as wide spread as the poverty in the third world nations. The following verses summarize it quite well:
Revelation 3:14-22
14 “And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: ‘The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God's creation.
15 “‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! 16 So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth. 17 For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing, not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked. 18 I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, so that you may see. 19 Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent. 20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me. 21 The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne. 22 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’”
Matthew 19:16-30
16 And behold, a man came up to him, saying, “Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?” 17 And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.” 18 He said to him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, 19 Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 20 The young man said to him, “All these I have kept. What do I still lack?” 21 Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” 22 When the young man heard this he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.
23 And Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly, I say to you, only with difficulty will a rich person enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.” 25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?” 26 But Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” 27 Then Peter said in reply, “See, we have left everything and followed you. What then will we have?” 28 Jesus said to them, “Truly, I say to you, in the new world, when the Son of Man will sit on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or lands, for my name's sake, will receive a hundredfold[c] and will inherit eternal life. 30 But many who are first will be last, and the last first.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You see, there is little good that comes from being rich in this life, unless those riches are used to help the poor. If they are not used to help the poor, then the person who has those riches will not like what they hear on the day of the Lord.
If you truly have a heart for the poor and the oppressed, then you should rejoice, for you have some wisdom and righteousness that many (even professing Christians do not). Seek the Lord, and He will answer your questions and doubts regarding the things which seem to be unfair in this world. Then when you find understanding, act in accordance with His will and the love He has given you for the needy. God can do many great things through one with a heart such as yours.
James 4:14
What is your life? For you are a mist that appears for a little time and then vanishes.
Proverbs 29:14
The righteous considereth the cause of the poore: but the wicked regardeth not to know it.
Proverbs 19:17
Whoever is generous to the poor lends to the Lord, and he will repay him for his deed.
Proverbs 14:31
Whoever oppresses a poor man insults his Maker, but he who is generous to the needy honors him.
Proverbs 14:21
Whoever despises his neighbor is a sinner, but blessed is he who is generous to the poor.
Proverbs 21:13
Whoever closes his ear to the cry of the poor will himself call out and not be
answered.
Proverbs 29:7
A righteous man knows the rights of the poor; a wicked man does not understand such knowledge.
Last edited by a moderator:
J
Also, your ability to see and understand the problems with many peoples "Christianity" is a blessing. Many who are "Christians" do not understand these things and have been deceived. But that does not change the truth, and it does not change what God asks of us.
Let what has been your stumbling block, be worked to your benefit. God gave you a rational mind, and you are using it. That is a good thing. There is much hypocrisy in the world and much deception, you have been given insights into the words of Christ. Do not think that God is ignorant of these things or that He is flawed because of the actions and thoughts of men. The Word of God can withstand any criticism thrown at it, whether it be of a philosophical, historical, scientific, spiritual, literary nature etc...
Let what has been your stumbling block, be worked to your benefit. God gave you a rational mind, and you are using it. That is a good thing. There is much hypocrisy in the world and much deception, you have been given insights into the words of Christ. Do not think that God is ignorant of these things or that He is flawed because of the actions and thoughts of men. The Word of God can withstand any criticism thrown at it, whether it be of a philosophical, historical, scientific, spiritual, literary nature etc...
J
Well, whether it was by mistake is up to you to decide I suppose. I could not have received any mail because my family was homeless in the middle of winter. I had no address. Someone who did receive a letter, dropped it into my lap. How did I, who received the letter 2nd hand manage to be the first to respond out of thousands? How did I, who was not on the waiting list, manage to be approved when 3 separate entities where supposed to check if I was on the waiting list or not?
Like I said, I didn't know until after we received the place that we were supposed to have been on the waiting list. All I knew when I prayed, is that if it was in the will of God, that it would happen. This is only one example of many of prayers in my life that have been answered. I only shared this one, because it is easier to explain and understand for an unbeliever because, it was also the only prayer I have prayed for a material or worldly blessing for my family, besides finding work.
Like I said, I didn't know until after we received the place that we were supposed to have been on the waiting list. All I knew when I prayed, is that if it was in the will of God, that it would happen. This is only one example of many of prayers in my life that have been answered. I only shared this one, because it is easier to explain and understand for an unbeliever because, it was also the only prayer I have prayed for a material or worldly blessing for my family, besides finding work.
You missed the entire point of my post! God answers prayers, because of his will, not ours. And NO, is an answer that God gives, because sometimes we do not pray according to the will of God. Sometimes suffering is part of his will for our lives.
Why? Because suffering develops character, and character is something we have for eternity, whereas healing, finances, etc, are limited to this life!
As for third world countries, I think God can answer their prayers more than ours because they are not blinded by secularism (as much as we try to ignore it!) We help support an orphanage in Burundi, and God provides for those orphans in miraculous ways. To say nothing of healing miracles, right up to raising people from the dead.
So your claim that God is limited in answering prayers, and doesn't answer prayers in third world countries is yet another straw man. You doubt God answers prayer, based on your unbelief in God. Nothing we can say can "prove" this to you.
Can you see how your words look to believers?
Why? Because suffering develops character, and character is something we have for eternity, whereas healing, finances, etc, are limited to this life!
As for third world countries, I think God can answer their prayers more than ours because they are not blinded by secularism (as much as we try to ignore it!) We help support an orphanage in Burundi, and God provides for those orphans in miraculous ways. To say nothing of healing miracles, right up to raising people from the dead.
So your claim that God is limited in answering prayers, and doesn't answer prayers in third world countries is yet another straw man. You doubt God answers prayer, based on your unbelief in God. Nothing we can say can "prove" this to you.
Can you see how your words look to believers?
M
I see what your saying here and I guess if your looking at it in that way it would sound like I'm wanted to be noticed. That's definitely not the case, I was just expressing the hurt my heart (fasting in the OT was closely related to times of grief, or great need or repentance, etc.), because unlike in person to person, one can't see the concern online. The scripture in the NT about fasting is showing that their hearts were wrong, this is related to the scripture in Isaiah about fasting also. I apologize to you and anyone who took that as a self-righteous thing!
There is! I've had two in my family and have heard of many others!
I'm sorry, either things arent quite as your making them out to be, or your wrong.
Care to go into more detail?
