A woman as a Pastor? Does it make it right if there is a need for pastors?

MarcR · Feb 18, 2015

In this as in any issue on the forum there are two (or more) divergent points of view.

On both sides of the issue there are three distinct approaches to discussing it:

1) Clearly state your position based on your understanding of Scripture

(a) presuming that those who disagree are equally well motivated like Angela & many others
(b) presuming that those who disagree have something fundamentally wrong with them like Fred

2) Intentionally misstate the other person's position, make snide remarks and hurl insults like Jack H

3) make a joke of the other person's position because you have nothing to say. like MadParrotWoman.

Remembering that non-believers are watching, we need to decide which approach presents the best witness.

tribesman · Feb 18, 2015

kaylagrl said:

Sigh. You go on with your contentions, like you love it and cannot cease from them. Your judgment here is wrong and not just. And not only in this regard. Nothing of importance have you got right, as far as I have seen yet (taken the teachers/teachings you have promoted). You defend someone who contributed nothing in this thread than snotty remarks and of course you dislike that I spoke out against it seeing you are now not being short of doing same yourself. You are blind to your own errors, and will not cease from your condescending attitude. We should be done talking on this point. I don't care what you think about me and my posts.

tribesman · Feb 18, 2015

kaylagrl said:

That was a typo.Tribesman I dont know if this is something you are doing on purpose or not but anyone who disagrees with you you call "emotional" or "hysteria". I have,many posts back given my reasons,and Scriptures,with what I believe.I posted what a male pastor said on the subject,so many pages back that I couldn't find it now.Every time someone disagrees with you they're "throwing pies" I dont know how many bakeries we've cleaned out in this thread according to you,but I doubt a pie could be found in the greater New York area.Or the whole east coast! People disagree with you "pie throwing".Now who's being childish?

Look over my posts in all threads.One person wrote me and said" I was unkind in my post to you but you were gracious to me" and they thanked me.I have no problem discussing issues with respectful people.What I do have a problem with is people who insist on name calling and damning people to hell when ,the last time I checked,the job of righteous judge was taken by Christ himself. I get my back up when people start packing my bags for hell,telling me Im evil etc. I dont do it,no one on here has that authority. Though many seem to think they do.I have been very serious in this thread but when people get on with non sense like the" perfect woman" yes I get a laugh. But run back to the first of this thread and you'll find I am very serious.I have female pastors in my family,most are married.They are Godly women and I dont take kindly to people saying they hate Jesus,whoever said that. That is a pure judgement call. Someone once said "judge not" it seems to be a favorite verse around here.So dont take my joking about some ridiculous post as not being serious,I am dead serious.

I know what I believe.I was in ministry for 20yrs.Have you been in ministry Tribesman? I take it very,very seriously.I take Gods calling very seriously.I can tell of hardships Ive gone through in ministry that no one here would be willing to endure.I am not some hysterical female.Many men could not follow where I have been,the people and places and things Ive had to face in ministry.But people were saved,marriages restored,people were healed and encouraged.Jesus commands us to go.Not stay in our comfortable homes and go to church on Sunday and dump our coins in the plate.He commands us to go!! I hear so many self righteous people on here sending people to hell.Which have you have gone,left the comfort of home and actually brought the gospel to the world? Sure we can discuss in here and act like the big Christian. Who has gone into the world like we were commanded.I dont mean over the water cooler at work either.What have you given up to go preach and share the gospel? As one who spent 20yrs in the ministry Tribesman I dont consider myself childish,hysterical and not serious.Do not mistake me.I have put feet to my words.I have gone.What have you done to prove you are serious about sharing the gospel more than attacking other Christians on a discussion site? Jesus commands us to go,have you?

Finally I did not become a licensed evangelist,though I was asked to do so.But I did continue in ministry.There has been a lot of talk on here of what women should do.There are opinions on both sides and each are entitled to them.But I have been out there in the front lines with people in ministry and I know what they go through.I know the trials they face that they cant share with their congregation. Ive prayed with pastors and their wives ready to give up. Ive had them cry on my shoulder because they didnt think they could carry on.I know what the ministry is about.And all this argument on this thread doesn't mean a heap of beans to God.What are we doing for HIM? We should all,I mean all, be convicted. Stop judging peoples hearts.What have YOU done for the cause of Christ?! How have you lifted the burden of your pastor and family?Have you gone? Or is your ministry on a discussion board? I wonder.

Is that serious enough Tribesman or will you dismiss it as pie throwing? Im pretty sure I know the answer.

That you go on like this is proof of you having some kind of issues you need to deal with. I am sure you will be angry now. And go on as usual. Maybe you can take a look at how you express yourself. Bragging about this and that, even how you got people "saved" and comparing yourself to others. You know absolutely nothing about me and yet you go on like that. It is much unwise to say the least. And, yes I think it is childish. If this is not emotional and hysteria then what is it? As for me I have no reason to sit here and talk about all my experience about my ministry and works and having done this and that, although I could do it. But I am not inclined to such stuff. That is totally irrelevant at this board. I have not damned anyone to hell here, I have not judged anyone's heart here, yet you argue with me about it. What does that say about you? But I am sure you will only go on with more anger and yet more contentious posts, being "liked" by your little friends here. These posts contribute nothing to the thread, so maybe we can agree to stop them?

tribesman · Feb 18, 2015

MarcR said:

I have put JackH on ignore because of his trolling. It is obvious some want to dwell on "jokes" or drama rather than actually sticking to and discussing the topic.

MarcR · Feb 19, 2015

JackH said:

MarcR said:

JackH said:

Jack,

This is what i was referring to in my post concerning how we approach debate

MarcR · Feb 19, 2015

JackH said:

MarcR said:

Jack ,

example continued

MarcR · Feb 19, 2015

JackH said:

MarcR said:

JackH said:

Jack,

Example continued

RyBread · Feb 19, 2015

Once again... it's a shame that people try to pick God's word to pieces to fit their covetous ways of thinking. Don't be too proud to accept your appointed role of God. We all have different roles, gifts ect... That's just the way it is. Not everyone can be a an opera singer, a king, a sailor, a pilot, a ballerina or a pastor.

MarcR · Feb 19, 2015

Jack,

JackH

Senior Member

Join DateJune 5th, 2014Age98Posts983 Rep Power1
[h=2]

Re: A woman as a Pastor? Does it make it right if there is a need for pastors?[/h]

Originally Posted by MarcR

Do you recognize your question yet?

It wasn't my question.

It was VioletReigns' question.

I merely repeated it because it was not being answered.

It still has not been answered.

It still has not been made clear what a woman can and can't do.

All we have from those who would discriminated against women is confusion.

God is not the author of confusion.

I'm not confused.

A woman can do anything that a man can, with respect to the issues of which we are speaking.

Like

blue_ladybug and MadParrotWoman like this.

example concluded

kaylagrl · Feb 19, 2015

tribesman said:

I knew you would accuse me of bragging.You couldnt resist,had to correct me.I have no issues to deal with.But I fear you have several.Like accusing everyone else of trolling when you yourself are doing the same thing.

"But people were saved,marriages restored,people were healed and encouraged." Where did I say I got people saved? Point that out to me in my quote.Where did I brag? I stated a fact.

You accused me of not being serious.I wasn't bragging on anything.But your judgmental spirit went straight for blood to knock me down a peg.I was telling you how seriously I took ministry.Not bragging on anything.I was answering your accusations.I didnt compare myself to others I said Jesus commands us to go and we should all go and preach the gospel instead of tearing down each other on here.That was the point,wasnt comparing myself to anyone.Once again your judgmental spirit betrays you.

You know nothing about me yet you said I wasnt serious,I contributed nothing to the thread and I was hysterical. Doesn't feel good to be talked to with no respect now does it?! Now you know how you are making others feel.I dont care what you think is childish,hysterical or emotional.Your own posts prove you cannot tolerate a different view than your own or you throw a tantrum.

I will go on,as you will,as long as I like.The ignore button is there for your use.I have no anger.My point was that women can be used and called of God.I dont care what ministry you've done.You have called people names and said they were doing evil.I dont know who died and made you king.I have friends here because we respect each other even when we differ on opinions.I have no say over who likes my posts and no one on here is a particular supporter of mine.You have friends that like your posts too.You called my integrity into question and I let you know that I know as much about ministry as you do.Now I find your posts contribute nothing to this thread. So maybe you can stop posting them? See how condescending that sounds? I'll post whatever I wish to post in here and you can skip right on past it. Its very simple.Dont read it. But as far as you lecturing me on anything spiritual I'd take that log out of your eye before you go about trying to correct others in this thread.Now hit the ignore button and we wont have to deal with this nastiness again.

kaylagrl · Feb 19, 2015

To my fellow posters on here I apologize for having to post a curt reply to Tribesman.I think those who know me here know that I go out of my way to be civil in discussion.I have apologized when I felt I was wrong.Tribesman accused me of not being serious,childish and hysterical.I had had enough.I will not have my integrity called into question.I posted about being in the ministry to make the point that God does call women and He does use those of us willing to go.I did not brag,I did not claim to save anyone.There are those here female and male that are in ministry and are preachers.God has used the likes of Catherine Booth among others to win people to the Lord.

If you read my post and considered it bragging your discernment is severely lacking.Whatever side of the issue you are on there is no reason to talk down to,lecture,dismiss or demean those who do not agree with you. I appreciate those who can agree to disagree and move on.Had Tribesman been patient he'd have seen that somewhere along the way there would be an issue we would agree on and I would hit like on his post.But he did not give that chance.There are non believers on here that have given me more respect then some in this thread.It is a pity indeed.Those who know me on here know I am not confrontational and I give people the chance to speak.Id appreciate the same respect.

tribesman · Feb 19, 2015

kaylagrl said:

With this pride I see in you there is no way that you will be corrected. This is nothing but pie throwing you are engaging in, going on with "you, you, you...!" like a little kid. Cannot see any of your own wrongs. I asked you if we could stop this chat, but you are so contentious you must carry on and on. You think this entertains the readers? It defends your position on the topic discussed somehow?

kaylagrl said:

Well that would be par for the course of your arminianism that you will somehow look to get the credit anyway, won't you? The fact is that you appealed to the public here how good and great you are and how experienced you are, questioning my integrity at the same time. Like if that has anything to do with what we are discussing here at an online board with people from all over the globe with loads of different faiths. Sigh.

kaylagrl said:

Judgmental spirit? Baloney! Here goes your hypocrisy. You have made many judgments here about me, and you are continuing doing so, but it's OK, because you are doing it. If someone turn the table around and call you out for your doings then you will yell "judgmental". Hypocrisy to the limit. If you think we are tearing down on each other here, then why do you continue on and on to argue with me, doting about questions and strifes of words.

kaylagrl said:

I was the one who said this first: you don't anything about me etc, and par for the course you must copy that and throw it at me. No change in your contentious posts. I still see you being nothing than childish, hysterical and emotional, because that is all these posts from you contain.

kaylagrl said:

Who did I call names? And, yes, I call something evil when I perceived it to be so. I will not back off from that. What you put into that is your thingy. I will not ask you any permission for anything. And I don't care about your views about anything. Being totally uninterested in your person.

kaylagrl said:

*shakes head* Do you see any log in your own eye at all, or does it have to be only when your sweet feelings have you to? Maybe you just realize that you cannot control me what I shall post here. Maybe with others you can succeed for that , but not with me.

tribesman · Feb 19, 2015

kaylagrl said:

To my fellow posters on here I apologize for having to post a curt reply to Tribesman.I think those who know me here know that I go out of my way to be civil in discussion.I have apologized when I felt I was wrong.Tribesman accused me of not being serious,childish and hysterical.I had had enough.I will not have my integrity called into question.I posted about being in the ministry to make the point that God does call women and He does use those of us willing to go.I did not brag,I did not claim to save anyone.There are those here female and male that are in ministry and are preachers.God has used the likes of Catherine Booth among others to win people to the Lord.

If you read my post and considered it bragging your discernment is severely lacking.Whatever side of the issue you are on there is no reason to talk down to,lecture,dismiss or demean those who do not agree with you. I appreciate those who can agree to disagree and move on.Had Tribesman been patient he'd have seen that somewhere along the way there would be an issue we would agree on and I would hit like on his post.But he did not give that chance.There are non believers on here that have given me more respect then some in this thread.It is a pity indeed.Those who know me on here know I am not confrontational and I give people the chance to speak.Id appreciate the same respect.

You ask for patience and you have none yourself. Bye.

kingerik · Feb 19, 2015

Mary96 said:

If God calls a women to pastor then it doesn't matter because God called her to pastor. It is how it is. I'm in a personal experience where God has put a women pastor in place at my church with 100% certainty. God has not only began to move in situations, but our church is on another level, spiritually, right now because of what God has called, not man. The Bible never teaches against women preachers and tbh, those who disagree, usually use the same logic people used back in the day with "slavery", taking verses out of context. I've seen many of women preachers, in fact, I didn't even know it was an issue until i got here.

presidente · Feb 19, 2015

I come from a church background where there was an emphasis on a 'call to preach' or a 'call to pastor.'

But when I read the Bible, I see called to be an apostle, called to be saints, and called to be conformed to the image of Christ. But I notice when Paul wrote out the requirements for being an overseer/elder of the church, in neither passage did he say the person in this role had to be 'called.'

If someone claims to be called to the role, he should demonstrate it by being the husband of one wife, ruling his house well, having faithful/obedient children, etc.

First he needs to do well at being a husband and father in charge of his home. Then he can be entrusted with leading in the household of faith.

If he's called to the role but isn't doing this, then he hasn't lived up to his calling and isn't qualified yet.

If there is a calling for it, that isn't even mentioned in scripture, so we shouldn't focus on calling at the expense of Biblical requirements.

It seems like church traditions often err on this issue, replacing the Biblical requirements with education requirements or else replacing them with a 'call' that, in some cases, no one seeks to verify.

JackH · Feb 19, 2015

MarcR said:

What you are doing here in your recent posts with my name in them is an example of an ad hominem attack.

First of all, I have clearly stated my position. You even quoted it in your slew of posts directed at me. My position, stated clearly and precisely is:

A woman can do anything a man can, with respect to the issues of which we speak.

What is your position, clearly and precisely stated?

I'm looking for a clear and precise statement like: A woman can preach to and teach other women and children, but she can not do so if the group includes men.

Also, what is your understanding of the position of tribesman, phil112, notuptome, presidente, and Yeraza_Bats? Clearly and precisely stated.The names mentioned have been frequent and recent contributors to this thread.

I know what Angela's position is and I can clearly and precisely state it. Same for kaylagrl.

Now, you quoted my line of questioning regarding whether females are engaging in sinful behavior that must be repented and turned away from.

Are they?

If so, you then must clearly and precisely define exactly what that sinful behavior is.

As in, a woman who is involved in an adulterous affair is engaging in sinful behavior that must be repented and turned away from to be right with God. Right?

Likewise, if a female who is pastoring, preaching, teaching, etc., is engaging in sinful behavior, she needs to know exactly what that sinful behavior is, right? So that she can repent of that behavior and turn away from it, right?

Now, I've read every post on this thread. I'm confused about what some of you are saying a woman can and can not do with respect to pastoring, preaching, teaching, et al. I would guess that the women are even more interested in what exactly the right answer is, seeing that it their eternal destiny that is at stake, according to some.

JackH · Feb 19, 2015

kaylagrl said:

This post of yours was directed to tribesman, for those who can't tell.

This is a thread about women in the ministry.

You shared your personal experiences specifically related to the subject matter of the thread.

I can hardly see how fault can be found with that.

Now, some have said here in this thread that certain activities that a woman does with respect to the ministry are unacceptable, sinful, behavior, etc.

So you have said what you have done.

Did you engage in sinful behavior that must be repented and turned away from?

I would argue with anyone who said you did. But how could I offer an opinion if I didn't know exactly what your story is?

Now, Angela has also shared some of her personal story with respect to her role in the ministry.

She indicated that she is an ordained minister.

Is that in of itself sinful behavior that must be repented and turned away from?

Tribesman made a huge issue of the word ordained, and that only men could be properly ordained.

So does Angela need to burn her ordination certificate, repent, and never engage in ministerial activities ever again?

Inquiring minds would like to know what those who would have us discriminate against women have to say about that.

Viligant_Warrior · Feb 19, 2015

Jack, you said you read every post on this thread. Including this one?

Viligant_Warrior said:

... While the Bible does not support the practice of women serving as senior pastors, numerous passages speak clearly and forcibly to the inherent worth and value of women. Women in the New Testament engaged in significant ministry, performing valuable service in sometimes-difficult situations. This is readily seen in the Acts of the Apostles. Both Priscilla and Aquila spoke privately to Apollos at Ephesus, correcting his incomplete and flawed theology.

Acts 18, NASB
24 Now a Jew named Apollos, an Alexandrian by birth, an eloquent man, came to Ephesus; and he was mighty in the Scriptures.
25 This man had been instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in spirit, he was speaking and teaching accurately the things concerning Jesus, being acquainted only with the baptism of John;
26 and he began to speak out boldly in the synagogue. But when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately.

Women clearly played a significant role in the work of the Apostle Paul. In his letter to the Romans, Paul identified sixteen significant ministerial helpers in chapter sixteen, and at least ten of them were women. Who knows what the health of the church at Philippi would have been were it not for Lydia?

Acts 16
13 And on the Sabbath day we went outside the gate to a riverside , where we were supposing that there would be a place of prayer; and we sat down and began speaking to the women who had assembled.
14 A woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple fabrics, a worshiper of God, was listening; and the Lord opened her heart to respond to the things spoken by Paul.
15 And when she and her household had been baptized, she urged us, saying, "If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house and stay." And she prevailed upon us.

She was obviously a benefactor to the church, and others such as Euodia and Syntyche (Phil. 4:2-3) were also significant women in ministry. And of course, women made a significant contribution to Jesus' ministry. Luke recalled with appreciation their financial support and company with Him.

Luke 8
1 Soon afterwards , He began going around from one city and village to another, proclaiming and preaching the kingdom of God. The twelve were with Him,
2 and also some women who had been healed of evil spirits and sicknesses: Mary who was called Magdalene, from whom seven demons had gone out,
3 and Joanna the wife of Chuza, Herod's steward, and Susanna, and many others who were contributing to their support out of their private means.

The question at hand is not whether women are of equal value to men, nor is it whether they can minister effectively. Obviously both Jesus and Paul knew they could. The question becomes, what is the nature of their ministry in the church? More specifically, it is permissible for a woman to serve as senior pastor? The obvious answer is "no."

There was not a female pastor in any first-century New Testament church. Paul's admonition in 1 Timothy 2:12, 13 must preclude a woman from being senior pastor -- "I do not permit a woman to preach or exercise authority over a man" absolutely negates that. But taken in conjunction with 1 Corinthians 11, where a woman is to submit to authority in her husband or her pastor, it cannot be successfully argued that other offices in the church are barred to women. Such a view is narrow-minded and, in fact, unbiblical. That is the evil you should be railing against.

So, how do you react to that?

phil112 · Feb 19, 2015

JackH said:

No it isn't. Again, your senility is affecting your reading comprehension.
This is the thread title.

WebersHome · Feb 19, 2015

-
†. Gen 12:13 . . I beseech you; say that you are my sister, that it may go
well with me because of you, and that I may remain alive thanks to you.

Abram didn't have to entreat Sarai to go along with his scheme. According
to Gen 18:12 and 1Pet 3:6, she was submissive to Abram as her superior.
This scene is useful for portraying the gracious nature of an amazing man of
God. Though he was a king in his own home, Abram wasn't a callous
despot like Kim Jong Un and/or Robert Mugabe who care little for either the
feelings or the welfare of their citizens.

Anyway; point being, Sarah is the New Testament's primo role model for
Christian women.

†. 1Pet 3:2-6 . .Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such
as braided hair and the wearing of gold jewelry and fine clothes. Instead, it
should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet
spirit, which is of great worth in God's sight.

. . . For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in
God used to make themselves beautiful. They were submissive to their own
husbands, like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her master.

When women take positions of authority in a church (e.g. a pulpit or a
church board) they fail to exemplify Sarah's role model; but rather, they
exemplify Abraham's; which is a total role reversal. And that's exactly what
we are seeing in churches everywhere across America these days; and it's
not only in church.

A 13 year-old girl pitched the winning game in the 2014 world series of Little
League baseball. She afterwards went on public television to state "And
that's throwing like a girl". Oh, was it? No, it wasn't, because had she
thrown like a girl she wouldn't have been competing in a boy's sport. Make
no mistake about it: she threw like a boy and that's why her team won. No
doubt she's now a poster child for other girls her age aspiring to undertake
a role reversal; in effect: aspiring to a weird sort of cultural sex change.

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A woman as a Pastor? Does it make it right if there is a need for pastors?

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