LEGALSIM...how do you know if your a "legalist"

[JaumeJ]

I hope you are not hinting that those who obey God are working works of the flesh. even posting these verses after all you have posted in this thread is an inferred finger of guilt pointed at the chidren of obedience. Those who obey, and love to obey the Father's rules do it because of the new Spirit they have received . Please do not speak of works of the flesh in regard to your rebuttal to the children of obedience. It is not ust distasteful, it is a sin.

When the Hoy Spirit enters any person, in that instant the person is not only filled with love, knowledge and understanding from God, he is also filled with a burning desire to please the Father because of his new person. No one can pay God for His Only Son's sacrifice for our sins, but we can surely be filled with gratitude spurring action and not just lip service. Love, that is the love from God causes the receiver to do good works of the Spirit,.

Ga 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like:

Ga 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Try to bring this point forward...God is not looking for obedience based on keeping a written rule of the law...He is looking for obedience based upon the New heart of Love He has given to those who are His Children.

"I will write My Law upon their hearts, and I will cause them to walk in My ways"
1Jo 4:7 ¶ Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

So in your view the non-changing God changed. Make sense

 

[Mitspa]

So in your view the non-changing God changed. Make sense

No the law was given for its purpose by God and if your under the law your still condemned and cursed by the law...and you nor me nor any man, knew God or can know God except through Jesus Christ. Again have you read the New Testament?

 

[Mitspa]

Not at all, I never said that... but you are trying to ignore the old testament my friend. And you still couldn't answer the question why a God that is the same today, yesterday and tomorrow will change His mind about his word. The Bible teaches us that Yeshua is the Word. So was he confused in the Old Testament? I don't think.

The law cannot save you but it shows you the character of the God you serve. It is like you saying I am an American but I am not going to adhere to the traffic laws of the country because my dad is a judge and he has got a "get out of jail free" card.

1Jn_2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn_2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn_5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn_5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
2Jn_1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
Rev_12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Rev_14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Rev_22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Yes and those Commandments are faith in Christ and to love ...so according to your logic "God don't change" are you claiming to be under all the Old Testament law?

 

[Mitspa]

So in your view the non-changing God changed. Make sense

Are you under the Old Covenant or the New? Do you think all the Old Testament law applies or just some of it? Remember "God don't change"

 

[PeterJens]

You know when you are legalist when you go to a book or a set of rules to define whether you accept something or not.
Everything has a place, but if you listen to your heart, how you react, spend time coming to conclusions based on the mixture of things life has provided you with, I would suggest you are a mature human being. If you ask how can I love people through this situation, you are a child of God. If you forgive the failures of those around you, you are a friend of Jesus.

 

[michael56]

At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do. Luke10:21

 

[Mitspa]

I hope you are not hinting that those who obey God are working works of the flesh. even posting these verses after all you have posted in this thread is an inferred finger of guilt pointed at the chidren of obedience. Those who obey, and love to obey the Father's rules do it because of the new Spirit they have received . Please do not speak of works of the flesh in regard to your rebuttal to the children of obedience. It is not ust distasteful, it is a sin.

When the Hoy Spirit enters any person, in that instant the person is not only filled with love, knowledge and understanding from God, he is also filled with a burning desire to please the Father because of his new person. No one can pay God for His Only Son's sacrifice for our sins, but we can surely be filled with gratitude spurring action and not just lip service. Love, that is the love from God causes the receiver to do good works of the Spirit,.

No the bible makes pretty clear that those under the law are in fact in the flesh...and one will always see these things in the legalistic groups and people. What you almost never see from the legalist is the fruit of the Spirit.

Ga 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Ga 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like:

 

[Mitspa]

Lu 10:25 ¶ And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. 28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
29 But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?

Always an escape clause for the legalist, to pretend they keep the law. Now clearly this man did not love the Lord with ALL his soul, strength and mind...God stood before him and he was only playing word games.

It is written that we love God because He first loved us...we can only love God as we receive His love from the Holy Spirit...in this we are not loving based on the written code of the law by the flesh...we are loving based upon the Spirit of God.

 

[JaumeJ]

Now I agree with you completely on works of the law`. You are aware that those who are obedient are children of obedience, correct? This leaves the others, the children of disobedience.

The children of obeience are not doing works of the law,, for they are obedient by the spirit dwellling withing each, however they are zealoous to do good works, of the spirit of course, and to obey. You understand, this is why they are called children of obedience. These are the folks here who believe in obeying God's wishes. Are you able to understand this?

We all live in the grace of Jesus Christ Who was perfect for us while we are being perfected. We cannot be completely perfect until His work is completed in us, but this is no reason for us to turn back to deliverate sin. Thus we obey the best we are able thought the flesh is constantly at war with the desires of our spirit, our new spirit. All of this is related by Paul. We do not sin more so that grace may abound, and sin is indeed breaking the law, no we are obedient. To be deliberately disobedient is reprobate..

No the bible makes pretty clear that those under the law are in fact in the flesh...and one will always see these things in the legalistic groups and people. What you almost never see from the legalist is the fruit of the Spirit.

Ga 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Ga 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like:

 

[Mitspa]

Now I agree with you completely on works of the law`. You are aware that those who are obedient are children of obedience, correct? This leaves the others, the children of disobedience.

The children of obeience are not doing works of the law,, for they are obedient by the spirit dwellling withing each, however they are zealoous to do good works, of the spirit of course, and to obey. You understand, this is why they are called children of obedience. These are the folks here who believe in obeying God's wishes. Are you able to understand this?

We all live in the grace of Jesus Christ Who was perfect for us while we are being perfected. We cannot be completely perfect until His work is completed in us, but this is no reason for us to turn back to deliverate sin. Thus we obey the best we are able thought the flesh is constantly at war with the desires of our spirit, our new spirit. All of this is related by Paul. We do not sin more so that grace may abound, and sin is indeed breaking the law, no we are obedient. To be deliberately disobedient is reprobate..

Sure the Pharisees claimed to be obedient also...but they was not! Nor is obedience through the written legal code, obedience is faith and love....that's the whole point of the thread that legalism is a false form of obedience ...Its the white paint on the tomb full of death, that Jesus warned against.

Now you seem to now change your position a little or at least represent a little more of the truth you believe? and Im glad because most believers know legalism is wrong, they just cant see obedience apart from being under the written code of the law. I hope to show believers that true obedience is faith and love and in that its true obedience according to the spirit and not the letter.

 

[JaumeJ]

The Pharisees claimed not only to be obedient but also born without sin. Children in Jesus Christ are well aware they are not perfect, and that they still will commit error, sin, but never will they be governed by sin as a rule. No, the children of obedience many not be compared to the Parisees to whom you refer, not in truth. I am a child of obedience, yet though my spirit is alive because of Jesus Christ, the body is dead because of sin, I do the very thing I hate. O wretched man that I am. Yet, I am a child of obedience because by the grace of God I am counted as perfect and my sin is not held against me. So it is with all who believe God; they obey Him.

Sure the Pharisees claimed to be obedient also...but they was not! Nor is obedience through the written legal code, obedience is faith and love....that's the whole point of the thread that legalism is a false form of obedience ...Its the white paint on the tomb full of death, that Jesus warned against.

Now you seem to now change your position a little or at least represent a little more of the truth you believe? and Im glad because most believers know legalism is wrong, they just cant see obedience apart from being under the written code of the law. I hope to show believers that true obedience is faith and love and in that its true obedience according to the spirit and not the letter.

 

[Mitspa]

The Pharisees claimed not only to be obedient but also born without sin. Children in Jesus Christ are well aware they are not perfect, and that they still will commit error, sin, but never will they be governed by sin as a rule. No, the children of obedience many not be compared to the Parisees to whom you refer, not in truth. I am a child of obedience, yet though my spirit is alive because of Jesus Christ, the body is dead because of sin, I do the very thing I hate. O wretched man that I am. Yet, I am a child of obedience because by the grace of God I am counted as perfect and my sin is not held against me. So it is with all who believe God; they obey Him.

well then you admit there is a false form of obedience which comes through legalism and the New Testament makes no difference between Jew and Gentile in regards to there inability to be obedient through the written code of the law. Its hypocrisy whether your a Jew or a gentile. And admitting you break the law is not obedience its an admission of disobedience. There for obedience is not through the law but through faith and love.

 

[Mitspa]

How can some admit they are breaking the law andthen claim obedience through the written code of the law? How can one preach a standard of righteousness they do not keep? No legalism is hypocrisy.

 

[michael56]

How can some admit they are breaking the law andthen claim obedience through the written code of the law? How can one preach a standard of righteousness they do not keep? No legalism is hypocrisy.

Basically, people set the bar of obedience at a certain level, if they don't sin below where they set the bar they believe that is acceptable, if they sin above where they set the bar, they believe as no one is perfect that is acceptable sin if you like to attain Heaven
But there is only one pass mark if you rely on obedience to the law to attain Heaven, 100% perfect obedience, nothing less will do

 

[JaumeJ]

Well then gosh glorioski, I have never made any clain otherwise, nor have I hid the knowledge of this condition, however it does not apply to anyone who is living in the grace of Jesus Christ, and yet recognizes the law in the manner Jesus Christ tteaches it. This I have made crystal clear in past posts, but I am afraid they were either not understood , or not read at all.

The children of obedience are aware there are false brethren who point out the "sins" of others while not doing anything to shed their own sin. I do not believe anyone in this thread is "under the law." Wanting to please the Father in every manner possible istems from love. It is not viewed as an obligation, rather it is a small wmanner to recognize the authority of the Most High God without presuming.

well then you admit there is a false form of obedience which comes through legalism and the New Testament makes no difference between Jew and Gentile in regards to there inability to be obedient through the written code of the law. Its hypocrisy whether your a Jew or a gentile. And admitting you break the law is not obedience its an admission of disobedience. There for obedience is not through the law but through faith and love.

 

[JaumeJ]

Read the Psalm number 32, attributed to David. This man was obedient in spirit and truth, yet he sinned, and that right well. He was a murderer an adulterer and more, yet he knew the grace of God. I believe his Psalms all display his faith and spirituality. God's ways are not the ways of man, and his understanding is unsearchable, not like attempting to communicate with certain confused individuals here.

 

[Mitspa]

Well then gosh glorioski, I have never made any clain otherwise, nor have I hid the knowledge of this condition, however it does not apply to anyone who is living in the grace of Jesus Christ, and yet recognizes the law in the manner Jesus Christ tteaches it. This I have made crystal clear in past posts, but I am afraid they were either not understood , or not read at all.

The children of obedience are aware there are false brethren who point out the "sins" of others while not doing anything to shed their own sin. I do not believe anyone in this thread is "under the law." Wanting to please the Father in every manner possible istems from love. It is not viewed as an obligation, rather it is a small wmanner to recognize the authority of the Most High God without presuming.

How can you claim obedience to a standard you do not keep? That s not obedience that's disobedience! And the New testament makes it very clear that's its disobedience. But it does teach true obedience through faith and love.

 

[Mitspa]

Read the Psalm number 32, attributed to David. This man was obedient in spirit and truth, yet he sinned, and that right well. He was a murderer an adulterer and more, yet he knew the grace of God. I believe his Psalms all display his faith and spirituality. God's ways are not the ways of man, and his understanding is unsearchable, not like attempting to communicate with certain confused individuals here.

That's the Old Testament we have the New Testament that tells us in plain and evident words that obedience is not in the letter but through the Spirit. Not sure why you want to ignore the gospel and stumble at the shadow instead of seeing the truth in the substance if the gospel?

 

[Grandpa]

What is more pleasing to the Father than resting from our own works at the law and abiding in Christ?

Answer - nothing.

The fruit is what the Father desires. This fruit is only grown one way. Its not from your understanding. Its not from your work. Its not from your flesh at all.

It is from the Holy Spirit through our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.