The Law as a School MASTER
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kennethcadwell
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The part I put in bold and underlined that you are using to say there are lots of scriptures that say people can do that and not lose their salvation has a condition to them. It says for every single one of them that they have to come back in repentance to receive salvation.
There is not one scripture in the bible that says a person can live a sinful lifestyle and still keep salvation without repenting of their ways.
A person who is in Christ does not sin because the fruits of the Spirit will not lead a person in an unclean lifestyle.
If a believer does sin again then like James said it is because they have been drawn away from the Lord by their own lusts, and James goes further and says if you give into that sin and let it get full grown to where you obey it again then it will lead to death.
The next thing is you should care what the early leaders who were taught directly by the original Apostles taught, as they taught the truth. Not these false ideologies that have only been around for the past few hundred+ years like OSAS.
[h=1]John 8:31-32[/h]31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
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kennethcadwell
Guest
Yes I do, but do you deny how Paul said the justification is only half the equation, that without keeping the confession of Jesus as Lord and Savior that one is not saved ?
Apostle Paul says with the heart we believe and are justified, and with confession we are saved.........
Just like Lord Jesus said before that those who believe and are baptized will be saved.............
They say this to make a point that without those in a believers life they do not have a true faith built on Him, because if one does have a faith built on the Lord they will keep and obey His teachings.
Kenneth you have no clue bro......justified is a legal term and means RENDERED INNOCENT and KAI is (AND) and connects the two thoughts together......
With the MIND you BELIEVE and with the mouth you CONFESS=JUSTIFICATION (KAI) SALVATION............
I stand amazed you try to disassociate the two........!
This verse has nothing to do with biblical salvation........It has to do with being a learner of Christ and his doctrine......A disciple is a learner of ones doctrine.....YOU CANNOT learn to be a disciple if you ARE NOT SAVED!
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kennethcadwell
Guest
Please stop using man made definitions for words, and start using how the bible uses it.
If justification in the bible means rendered innocent as you state, then there would be no need for repentance. For the bible says justification comes from faith/belief. Yet the Lord says unless you repent of your sins and receive remission of your sins by Him you will perish. No repentance = No salvation
So you can not be rendered innocent before you even repent of your sins..............
Now you are trying to make another scripture not about salvation when it is, because you can not receive salvation through the Lord if you are not one of His disciples. And that scripture in John 8:31-32 clearly states that if you continue in keeping (abide) His teachings then you are His disciple.
A believer does not later on become a disciple, you become a His disciple from day one of your faith.
From there you prove if your faith and discipleship is true by how you continue to walk, and if your walk does not match how the scriptures say you are to walk then you will not have eternal life. As the bible clearly says your walk has to match your faith, or it shows that Christ does not abide in you.
Yes a disciple is a learner/student which is why we must first accept and walk in the milk that the Lord gave, then continue in the meat that Paul gave to us. We are still learning everyday in His word, but some do mature in the faith quicker then others. But none can claim to be all wise and know everything, as Paul says if they do they will be made to look foolish.
If you believe you know more than the early church leaders who had the truth in front of them from Peter and Paul, then that would be foolish pride. Saying you do not care what they taught shows that pride, because you should care what the understudies were taught directly by Peter, Paul, Jude, and the rest of the original Apostles.....
Rom 2:13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified:
Rom 6:7 for he that hath died is justified from sin.
1Co 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Justification involves more than mere lip service. note I did not say we work to be justified. But it is clear that a person is not justified apart from works. The works are Gods not ours, and come to those who have faith.
Rom 6:7 for he that hath died is justified from sin.
1Co 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Justification involves more than mere lip service. note I did not say we work to be justified. But it is clear that a person is not justified apart from works. The works are Gods not ours, and come to those who have faith.
Romans 3:25 relates to people who died before Jesus lived. No one could attain Heaven under the old covenant, for no one could be truly righteous before God under it. Jesus died for those who lived before him, as well as after
Satan is subtle, he knows the power of the message is in grace. The power of grace is knowing Jesus died for all your sin at Calvary, you have no righteousness before God of observing the law. Satan knows he cannot convince a person who asks Christ into their life as Lord and Saviour that Christ did not die on the cross, so he does the next best thing in his view.
He convinces them, in reality if they do not obey the law they are condemned.
You see, a born again Christian knows instinctively how God wants them to live and in their heart they want to obey. They know the barrier to God is sin, they know God hates sin, they know God wants them to live holy life, indeed they earnestly want that to. What is the natural conclusion? They must strive to defeat the sin. Satan unfortunately has misguided(at best) people who go to church aiding his cause. They stress if the law is not obeyed you cannot attain to Heaven, and they quoyte selective verses of scripture to endorse their view. What is the result? The sincere convert, who does not want to be Phariseeical becomes crushed under demands those making them cannot live up to in their own lives. They are back under a law of righteousness. And that is where the true power of sin lies.
The person who makes these demands(in effect of a law of righteousness) is misguided at best, or simply seeking to be praised by men. In other words
''Look at me, I almost perfectly obey God's good and Holy laws, you must attain to where I am''
Such sin God will view very gravely, he did when the Pharisees committed it.
Victory over sin is looking away from yourself and to Christ, trusting him, through the spirit to bring you to live n ever holier life. While you do this you are a sinner, and you will know you are, for the law has been placed within you. But the more you look to Christ, the more you rely on him and not yourself, the more victory you see over sin.
False words of humility from those, in effect seeking praise from men will not go unseen. It never did. The Pharisees could fool the people, but they could not fool Christ
False words of humility from those, in effect seeking praise from men will not go unseen. It never did. The Pharisees could fool the people, but they could not fool Christ
It is obvious there are many people mistaking grace with license. Also obvious is these same teachers of grace know nothing of what exactly obedience is.
This stems from not knowing the teaching of Jesus Christ, nor having ever been familiar witht the law as He teaches it.
How can anyone believe they live in grace if he does not understand what obedience is?
Grace is not, nor ever will be license..
God bless all who live in Jesus Christ........amen.
This stems from not knowing the teaching of Jesus Christ, nor having ever been familiar witht the law as He teaches it.
How can anyone believe they live in grace if he does not understand what obedience is?
Grace is not, nor ever will be license..
God bless all who live in Jesus Christ........amen.
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How can a born again Christian view grace as a licence to sin? The new covenant comes in TWO PARTS not one. One without the other equals no new covenant.
Obedience comes from faith(Rom 1:5)
Grace is the empowerment of victory over sin. The power of sin is the law 1Cor15:56. Those who stress striving to obey the law to attain Heaven preach a Gospel that leaves the power of sin firmly in place, those who speak of grace believe the true power of sin was broken by Christ's death at Calvary
Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.
Righteousness Through Faith
[SUP]21 [/SUP]But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. [SUP]22 [/SUP]This righteousness is given through faith in[SUP][h][/SUP] Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, [SUP]23 [/SUP]for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, [SUP]24 [/SUP]and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. [SUP]25 [/SUP]God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement,[SUP][i][/SUP] through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— [SUP]26 [/SUP]he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith. [SUP]28 [/SUP]For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. [SUP]29 [/SUP]Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, [SUP]30 [/SUP]since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. [SUP]31 [/SUP]Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law Rom 3:19-31
Righteousness Through Faith
[SUP]21 [/SUP]But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. [SUP]22 [/SUP]This righteousness is given through faith in[SUP][h][/SUP] Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, [SUP]23 [/SUP]for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, [SUP]24 [/SUP]and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. [SUP]25 [/SUP]God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement,[SUP][i][/SUP] through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— [SUP]26 [/SUP]he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith. [SUP]28 [/SUP]For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. [SUP]29 [/SUP]Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, [SUP]30 [/SUP]since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. [SUP]31 [/SUP]Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law Rom 3:19-31
Michael, I think there is confusion between grace and cheap grace and when I hear the word grace I immediately assume that it is from a person who believe once save always saved and grace is a licence to sin.
When you hear the word law you immediately think Pharisees and legalistic.
Somewhere between these two statements we will find the truth and if we look at it we will start to accommodate each others views.
When you hear the word law you immediately think Pharisees and legalistic.
Somewhere between these two statements we will find the truth and if we look at it we will start to accommodate each others views.
Anyone with a good conscience knows it is not being under the law to honor out parents, to worship God only, to return our enemy's belongings if we encounter them, and so much more in the laws and commandments. We know to obey this under grace because of the laws of good behavior and morality being inscribed on the tablet of our hearts.
All must learn the difference between being under the law, that is subjegated by the law, and obedience under grace. It is God's will.
Misunderstanding Romans, then passing on th emisunderstanding is teaching error and to live in error. The law is holy as taught by Jesus Christ. As taught by Jesus Christ there is mercy and grace contained in the law, for ourselves and for all others from us. It does not take a lot of thinking to understand this.
Do not teach agains the law; Jesus Christ has warned us all. God bless all who live in Jesus Christ's teachings and in Him, amen.
All must learn the difference between being under the law, that is subjegated by the law, and obedience under grace. It is God's will.
Misunderstanding Romans, then passing on th emisunderstanding is teaching error and to live in error. The law is holy as taught by Jesus Christ. As taught by Jesus Christ there is mercy and grace contained in the law, for ourselves and for all others from us. It does not take a lot of thinking to understand this.
Do not teach agains the law; Jesus Christ has warned us all. God bless all who live in Jesus Christ's teachings and in Him, amen.
Why did Paul say:
Carry each others burdens and so fulfil the law of Christ Gal 6:2
Why did he not say.
''Obey Christ's individual commands and so fulfil the law of Christ?''
Matthew 23:23 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
We cannot doubt the words of our King. Again we should walk with justice, mercy and faithfulness in the law.
We cannot doubt the words of our King. Again we should walk with justice, mercy and faithfulness in the law.
You have said it. Paul does not contradict Jesus Christ. If you see contradiction in Paul, you must first learn the teachings of the Master (master means teacher here). Understand Jesus Christ first, and then you will possibly understand His student.
No, Paul does not contradict Christ. We agree
So in view of that, please answer my previous question