SAVED BY WORKS

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gotime said:
He did make mistakes the wife one twice. It is however important to note that Abraham was not in rebellion. Not once if my memory recalls does Abraham disobey God. The wife issue for instance was a lack of faith on Abraham's part. But by the time Abraham has had Issac and is told to sacrifice Him Abraham has complete Faith in God.

Its a story of growth.
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I agree with you, during our growth we make mistakes, we therefore sin. We are not in rebellion against God when we sin, as Abraham wasn't
 
KJV1611 said:
I guess you could tell him, but I like to do things for my neighbors. I have chickens, and I give one of my elderly neighbors chicken eggs every week because he loves them. My other neighbor doesn't live on her 2 acres so I cut her grass with my bush hog. Now I must admit that every time I cut her grass, I covet that property. It's a beautiful piece of land that borders mine and I would really like to buy it from her but she doesn't want to sell.

I also lied to my elderly neighbor the other day. He tried to give me some money to help pay for chicken feed so I lied and told him that some of the other people that I give eggs to were giving me plenty of money to cover the feed... they actually aren't giving me any money though.

How do you love your neighbor?
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With the greatest difficulty ! thats a great post though KJV . This is the second "law" for Christians - the first being to "Love God " . Nobody can love Jehovah in the manner He deserves so we cannot love our neighbour as we should either. Dont beat yourself up about it. The very fact that it bothers your conscience is a sure sign your heart has, and is being renewed aright .

These are the ONLY two Laws that concerns a Christian - both Laws cover the entire Old Testament Law to those Free in Christ (OSAS) . Those who deny OSAS are usually still under the Old Testament Law and trying to earn faith but in the end it is just a slow, painful ticket to eternal damnation .
 
gotime said:
Typical instead of addressing scripture Just say no your wrong. that fixes everything. I did a whole post and supposedly I haven't addressed it but you just can't show me how. so nothing personal but you saying I some is not means nothing really cause it has nothing to back it up.

anyway guess we are done then. Blessings
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If you think you've done such a great job addressing this then plug your words into the verse below. If you have come to the right conclusion, your words will make 100% perfect sense. Until it makes 100% perfect sense, you have not come to the right conclusion.

Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
Joh 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
Joh 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

This is the conclusion you came to:

The servant (the one who serves sin) initially abides in the house (the spiritual seed of Abraham, true family), even though they are not free from sin. But later they are kicked out because they are not free from sin.
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Does the above make perfect 100% sense? You've got the one who serves sin being the spiritual house of Abraham... then you turn around and say the one who serves sin gets kicked out of the spiritual house of Abraham because they have not stopped sinning.

It's like I said from the get go, you only understand verse 34... you have no clue what the "house" is... it is not the spiritual house of Abraham.

You said my interpretation was wrong. Then take my words and plug them into the verses and show me (just like I've shown you but you wont accept it) that I'm wrong.
 
gotime said:
what sort of question is that? what does it prove?

That like someone saying about me now, Did he keep God's commands, statutes and laws when he used to steal?

But I don't steal anymore and have paid back my thefts.
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Christ paid your debts through His Penal Substitution . You merely hand back what belongs to others .
 
KJV1611 said:
You might as well give up man, he ain't gonna get it.
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He doesn't want to get(admit) it, because he knows he cannot live up to what he preaches.
The Phariseeical attitude is as alive today as it was 2,000 years ago. And as 2,000 years ago, those who have such an attitude will attack those who speak of Grace
 
kennethcadwell said:
Do you understand what leaven stands for?
Leaven means a sinful lifestyle, as Paul clearly states that if we do not purge the wrong doer out of the church his leaven (wrong doing) will leaven others. Lead them to walking improperly also, and not obey the truth.
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what does that have to do with eternal life of a soul?

Of course we walk the false teacher out. Because he can leaven the whole church. But that is not the topic of discussion now is it?
 
dcontroversal said:
I suggest you study.....The leaven of the Pharisees was HYPOCRISY......God's Word not mine....maybe you should start believing the word instead of twisting it to fit your theology
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I would add Pride. They thought they were righteous, when the law still condemned them, But since they could not see past their own pride. they could not realise the law still condemned them.

Much like kenny, Remember, he said he is worthy now.. even though the law still condemns him, But his pride is too deep to realize this.
 
kennethcadwell said:
The bible says it is impossible by man alone............

However we are not alone we have the Holy Spirit guiding us in every step, and Paul said in Romans 13:9-10 that walking in love will uphold the 10 commandments plus any other command given by the Lord. Paul also said in Romans 3:31 by our faith we do not void the law we through love establish it in our lives.....
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the part you do not get, inspite of what you think, you do not walk in love 100% of the day, no one does, that is why the law STILL condemns you. as shown by james.

[SUP]10 [/SUP]For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.

the law comes as a package deal. it must be kept in full, one sin, and you have lost all hope forever..
 
kennethcadwell said:
Wrong as the Lord gives a strict warning to believers in Revelation, that if anybody adds to it they will face the plagues in the book, and if anybody takes away from it He will blot their name out of the book of life.

Once again James 5:19-20 is talking about believers that fall away from the truth, if they are not brought back there is no salvation for them.
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no it is not. it is talking about people who heard the truth, but never experienced it, never trusted it, never had faith in it, their faith was dead. proven by the facty, it had no works.

not everyone james spoke to was saved. just like not everyone in your or my church is saved, yet we must give a message to them also.
 
michael56 said:
He doesn't want to get(admit) it, because he knows he cannot live up to what he preaches.
The Phariseeical attitude is as alive today as it was 2,000 years ago. And as 2,000 years ago, those who have such an attitude will attack those who speak of Grace
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its been around since the begining of time, it is satans biggest lie, and people still fall for it.
 
eternally-gratefull said:

its been around since the begining of time, it is satans biggest lie, and people still fall for it.
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correct. remember that in the conversation between satan and Eve, she added that God told them not to TOUCH the tree , which he did not say. so, adding to God's word was started by our first parent.
 
gb9 said:
correct. remember that in the conversation between satan and Eve, she added that God told them not to TOUCH the tree , which he did not say. so, adding to God's word was started by our first parent.
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yep, it all started with twisting the word of God to our own understanding.
 
michael56 said:
Actually, my wifes minister has been doing a series of sermons on Abraham. Quite refreshing if I might say so. He has stressed Abraham's walk with God was not always simple and straightforward, and he made mistakes/sinned along the way
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Your wife's minister? Do you go to different churches?
 
gotime said:
I am afraid you are backing yourself into a corner here.

you said you sin and so do you. Well aside form the fact that you don't know me so you have no right to make that claim. you do admit you sin and then quote Romans 7 to support you which means you actually think its normal or ok to be like this in Christ.

However it is you that does not understand this text so I will help you by pointing out some things you may have missed.

lets start at the beginning:

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

So you accept the law is spiritual, and then confess that you are carnal still and are still sold under sin making you a slave to sin.

So you claim that you are not spiritual but carnal. is this the case?

IF not then why are you using these verses to substantiate your position?

what about this verse:

Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

This is in direct relation to the verses you just quoted so you also admit that you are not delivered and are headed to death.

You admit that you want to do good but can't cause you are a slave to sin. but you can be free in Christ.

So you claim to be carnal and not spiritual, you claim to be a slave to sin and you claim to be undelivered from death.

Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

you claim to be carnal.

and you claim the experience of the carnal mind:

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

you are not subject to the law of God and thus though you will to do good you can not do it.

but My God not only give us the will but the ability to do.

can the Romans 7 man do what He wills?

Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

But God says:

Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

So God works to will and to do, so you confess that God is not working in you to do his good pleasure but only will.

Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

you confess that you delight in the law of God in the inward man but you are a slave to the law of sin. thus you are carnal and not spiritual.

but those who are spiritual it says:

Eph 3:16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
Eph 3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
Eph 3:18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
Eph 3:19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

We are strengthened in the inner man by the Spirit. no longer captive to the law of sin.

and again:

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Those of us who are in Christ no longer walk according to the flesh which you admit walking according to. we by the Spirit in Christ are fee form the law of sin and death which you confess you are captive to the law of sin.

notice also:

Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

classic slave to sin as it is written:

Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

your flesh lusts against the spirit and you cannot do the things you want to do. but we who walk in the spirit:

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

are free from such things.

think carefully friend.
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You have very good break downs in your responses, and I just wanted to say how people misuse Romans 7 to have it say Paul is speaking of his current walk in the faith. When what the Apostle Paul is doing is showing how he walked carnally minded, and then says who can save me from this way.
Then in Romans 8 he shows by abiding in Christ he now walks in the Spirit and not in the flesh, for to continue being carnally minded as he was in 7 leads to death and not eternal life.
 
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