sinless? or sinning less.

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gotime said:
Sorry but your logic here does not work and I am surprised you don't see it. Are you suggesting that the things recorded in Acts 15 are the only expectations ever put on the Gentiles?

your argument here holds no water, it would be thrown out in a second in a court of law. its simply conjecture.
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lol
You were the one who set aside the fourth commandment as not being written on the mind of the believer and placed on the heart whereas all the others were
If you were right the church in acts 15 would have had no choice but to specifically instruct Gentile converts with the ''knowledge'' you say is needed to observe a Saturday Sabbath. We are speaking of the Ten Commandments here. Commandments seventh day adventists believe MUST all be observed. They are most specific about this
 
michael56 said:
lol
You were the one who set aside the fourth commandment as not being written on the mind of the believer and placed on the heart whereas all the others were
If you were right the church in acts 15 would have had no choice but to specifically instruct Gentile converts with the ''knowledge'' you say is needed to observe a Saturday Sabbath. We are speaking of the Ten Commandments here. Commandments seventh day adventists believe MUST all be observed. They are most specific about this
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Are you playing or are you really not understanding me?

Its talking about converted yes converted Gentiles. That means they have already received instruction prior to this meeting.

That means that the Sabbath could have and would have been taught them already thus no need to add something that already has been done.

Now you might not agree but you have no proof that it is not the case.
 
In fact the 10 commandments would have been taught them, the topic being addressed as you have acknowledged in acts 15 is laws that the Jews were trying to push on them. namely ceremonial laws.
 
gotime said:
Are you playing or are you really not understanding me?

Its talking about converted yes converted Gentiles. That means they have already received instruction prior to this meeting.

That means that the Sabbath could have and would have been taught them already thus no need to add something that already has been done.

Now you might not agree but you have no proof that it is not the case.
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I hope Haz is reading this. I said to him yesterday come what may an sda would never admit to their error, their denomination stands on it.
No instruction is given in the entire NT for Gentile converts to observe a specific Saturday Sabbath!

I repeat, to a seventh day adventist, what stands them apart(foremostly) is their insistence ALL of the Ten Commandments are followed.
You state the fourth is different in respect of it NOT being written on the heart and placed of the mind of the believer. Therefore specific knowledge is need of that commandment in order to follow it. The Jerusalem church gave no such knowledge to Gentile converts.
Because the law is written on the heart and placed on the mind they needed to mention no more than they did at that meeting. But that does not apply to the fourth commandment according to what you wrote yesterday. Therefore if youv were right, they would have had to specifically mention it.

Now if you were honest(and sinless!) you would admit, you only dreamt up this idea because you could not respond to the point I made of every Christian would have to know they were sinning by not observing a specific Saturday Sabbath if that law were placed on their heart and written on their mind. But it is easier to say we do not sin than to live up to that claim is it not?
 
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gotime said:
In fact the 10 commandments would have been taught them, the topic being addressed as you have acknowledged in acts 15 is laws that the Jews were trying to push on them. namely ceremonial laws.
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The more you change your opinions on what you write concerning this subject, the more of a mess you get in.
 
ChristInUs said:
Ten simple rules and no man can keep them.
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Some believe they can.

I find it hard-no impossible to understand anyone believing they perfectly keep the law written on their mind and placed on their heart.
The only way they can fool themselves is.................
 
michael56 said:
Some believe they can.

I find it hard-no impossible to understand anyone believing they perfectly keep the law written on their mind and placed on their heart.
The only way they can fool themselves is.................
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Self righteousness is a slippery snake.
 
michael56 said:
The more you change your opinions on what you write concerning this subject, the more of a mess you get in.
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I think Ill stop here again, you are just doing what you did before. and I don't want part of it. you still don't get my points and yet act as if you do. but I can tell you don't and you don't care enough to try but rather we are back to assuming my motives and accusations again.

So thanks for the chat but I will bow out now.
 
gotime said:
I think Ill stop here again, you are just doing what you did before. and I don't want part of it. you still don't get my points and yet act as if you do. but I can tell you don't and you don't care enough to try but rather we are back to assuming my motives and accusations again.

So thanks for the chat but I will bow out now.
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I can post many of your contradictions concerning this subject if you would like, I have them copied. They speak for themselves
 
michael56 said:
I can post many of your contradictions concerning this subject if you would like, I have them copied. They speak for themselves
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Michael I am done. you don't care about me you just want to be right and this reply proves it.
 
quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by gotime
I did not clarify maybe, i was speaking about those who commit open adultery say by sleeping with someone who is not their partner etc. If the love of God is on our heart I very much doubt one could not be aware of the hurt that causes. maybe possible but I can't see how.



So I'm just curious how you see the common examples we see of adultery amongst Christians today.
Many Christians today follow the secular trend of divorcing their partner and then marry another.

But Mark 10:11,12 calls this adultery.
So He said to them, “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her. And if a woman divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery

Are you saying that any divorced Christians who goes against what Mark 10:11,12 and marries another are still saved but merely just do not understand that they're into adultery?

Also, note your quote below.


quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by gotime
Righteous people do righteousness.



Are you saying that Christians who neglect the physical Sabbath, or divorce their partner and then marry another (adultery, Mark 10:11,12), are not righteous because they are not doing righteousness?

Hi gotime,

The above is an earlier post asking you to clarify your doctrine.

I raise this again as you have not answered these questions about what seems to be contradictions in your doctrine.

BTW, it is ok to say that you don't know how to answer these questions that point out contradictions in your doctrine.
At least it would get you thinking.

 
haz said:
Thanks Michael.

I'm always interested to hear your experiences with the various churches you've been to.
I don't think I've had quite your extent of experience in different churches, but I've encountered many Adventists, some of whom have been friends and work colleagues. Thus I have some knowledge where they're coming from.

No doubt you'll agree that like many churches, Adventists are a diverse group expressing quite divergent views on doctrine.
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Hi Haz

Indeed, Adventists have different views on whether the law God desires you to keep is written on your mind and placed on your heart by the Holy Spirit, and that is one of the two core principals on which the new covenant stands,. Doug Bachelor, a prominent SDA believes they are under the new covenant whereas they were not under the old. My wife's minister believes they ARE NOT written on the mind and placed on the heart. I rang the headquarters of sda in a country close to my own and asked them whether they believe the law is placed within us. The person replied ''yes and no''
 
gotime said:
Michael I am done. you don't care about me you just want to be right and this reply proves it.
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Whats the prob Gotime? Is it law? or is it faith?

Mans problem is sin and the only way to get victory over sin is by the cross and not what you do. By placing your faith in the cross, the Holy Spirit will work in you and through you to produce good fruit. However the moment we place faith in what we do the Holy Spirit backs off. The Lord your God is a jealous God.
 
gotime said:
Michael I am done. you don't care about me you just want to be right and this reply proves it.
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My only problem is your insistence all must observe a specific Saturday Sabbath
I will repeat once again. If you feel blessed, or anyone else feels blessed to observe such a specific Sabbath wonderful I am truly glad you feel blessed by doing so. But you have no right to insist it of everyone else. I am afraid I grew up with demands made that should not have not have been made, thus I do not like to see things being insisted on for all that should not be insisted on
 
ChristInUs said:
Whats the prob Gotime? Is it law? or is it faith?

Mans problem is sin and the only way to get victory over sin is by the cross and not what you do. By placing your faith in the cross, the Holy Spirit will work in you and through you to produce good fruit. However the moment we place faith in what we do the Holy Spirit backs off. The Lord your God is a jealous God.
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Thanx for that. No I am just tired of this not caring attitude. I agree with what you have said. blessings.
 
michael56 said:
My only problem is your insistence all must observe a specific Saturday Sabbath
I will repeat once again. If you feel blessed, or anyone else feels blessed to observe such a specific Sabbath wonderful I am truly glad you feel blessed by doing so. But you have no right to insist it of everyone else. I am afraid I grew up with demands made that should not have not have been made, thus I do not like to see things being insisted on for all that should not be insisted on
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Romans 14 and leave it at that. It's between God and them. Ohhtay?
 
michael56 said:
Hi Haz

Indeed, Adventists have different views on whether the law God desires you to keep is written on your mind and placed on your heart by the Holy Spirit, and that is one of the two core principals on which the new covenant stands,. Doug Bachelor, a prominent SDA believes they are under the new covenant whereas they were not under the old. My wife's minister believes they ARE NOT written on the mind and placed on the heart. I rang the headquarters of sda in a country close to my own and asked them whether they believe the law is placed within us. The person replied ''yes and no''
Click to expand...

I agree Michael.
There is a diverse range of views held by Adventists.
And even gotime here on CC seems to be preaching contradictory views within his own doctrinal beliefs.
I'm really confused about what gotime actually believes as he makes statements that suggests Christians are unsaved/unrighteous, but then contradicts this and seems to suggest that maybe not.
 
haz said:
quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by gotime
I did not clarify maybe, i was speaking about those who commit open adultery say by sleeping with someone who is not their partner etc. If the love of God is on our heart I very much doubt one could not be aware of the hurt that causes. maybe possible but I can't see how.



So I'm just curious how you see the common examples we see of adultery amongst Christians today.
Many Christians today follow the secular trend of divorcing their partner and then marry another.

But Mark 10:11,12 calls this adultery.
So He said to them, “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her. And if a woman divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery

Are you saying that any divorced Christians who goes against what Mark 10:11,12 and marries another are still saved but merely just do not understand that they're into adultery?

Also, note your quote below.


quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by gotime
Righteous people do righteousness.



Are you saying that Christians who neglect the physical Sabbath, or divorce their partner and then marry another (adultery, Mark 10:11,12), are not righteous because they are not doing righteousness?

Hi gotime,

The above is an earlier post asking you to clarify your doctrine.

I raise this again as you have not answered these questions about what seems to be contradictions in your doctrine.

BTW, it is ok to say that you don't know how to answer these questions that point out contradictions in your doctrine.
At least it would get you thinking.
Click to expand...

sorry I missed your post haz.

Its not contradictions at least not from my point of view. The context of the statements is important as in anything.

When I speak about overcoming I talk in end result language often. that means I am working on the assumption that the person has walked with God for some time, learnt from the word and grown to trust God in everything.

When you ask specific questions like adultery It gets hard, for someone who knows the truth and is convicted of it and tasted the power of God to then do such a thing is very different to someone who is weak in the faith.

The reality is sometimes I have answered you form a strong seasoned Christian point of view and other times from a new christian weak in the faith. there in lies the perceived contradictions. I must admit that I have not always thought of that and thus not explained my position clearly.

Haz we often disagree but some of that is my fault in my explanations. but I thank you because you have always been respectful and sought answers to where you see problems rather than simply accusing.
 
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