Sabbath

[eternally-gratefull]

Have you ever kept any of God's feast days? Have you ever tried to celebrate them with the purpose of loving God and your neighbor? Have you ever read a specific instruction in the Law and observed it with the intent of loving someone through it? It's easy to criticize something when you've never done it. If you haven't, then you really don't know what you're speaking of. I don't say that to insult you, just to point out that you practically and physically don't know.

I'll even be so bold as to say that celebrating Passover is FAR more loving than celebrating Easter. Why?
#1 Easter isn't even Biblical, let alone taught or observed by any of the early church fathers or saints. Passover is and was.
# 2 At Passover, you are commanded to come together and share the meal with others (loving others).
# 3 You are celebrating God's people as a whole being delivered from bondage by a merciful Savior (loving God).

no I have not.

why?

I want a relationship with God. Not a lets go down the list and check all of the things I have to do or God will be angry with me.

again, as paul said. speaking of going to the law.

Gal 4:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But then, indeed, when you did not know God, you served those which by nature are not gods. (speaking of paganism and all their ritual observances) [SUP]9 [/SUP]But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage? [SUP]10 [/SUP]You observe days and months and seasons and years. (speaking of the observances, traditions of the law) [SUP]11 [/SUP]I am afraid for you, lest I have labored for you in vain.

so why would paul say this, if we were supposed to realte to God through ritual observance, of feasts, holidays and holy days?

 

[KohenMatt]

one who leans to walk in love learns to walk in Gods commands. They do not need the law to show them that. They just need to do it.

The law shows us how condemned we are. it does not show us how to love.

How do you know what to do, if you don't learn what to do? The Holy Spirit? Absolutely. What does the Holy Spirit teach us to do? Follow the Law in love for God and others.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You need to teach the Law to know what it says. Eventually, you do it out of habit and heart without the need to learn it over and over, but the fact is that you still do it. Why read or teach any part of Scripture if all we're supposed to do is teach love? You can't set a double standard and say, "Don't teach the Law from the Old Testament, but just love. But you need to teach the New Testament to know how to love." It's inconsistent.

No I do not.

God has written the law in our hearts, Our sins and lawless deads he will remember no more.

Yes, it is good to go over the OT, and see what it says, and see how Jesus fulfilled those things.

But I do not need to study them to know how to love. or how to be a righteous person. they were never given for that purpose.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

How do you know what to do, if you don't learn what to do? The Holy Spirit? Absolutely. What does the Holy Spirit teach us to do? Follow the Law in love for God and others.

lol. Nope

I love by not thinking of self. but thinking of others.

If I love my neighbor, the thought of coveting what they have will never cross my mind. I do not need to know the law that says do not covet, Even if I never heard there was a law that said this, I would never break it, because I am always thinking of love.

If I hear, Do not covet. And my only response is God said do not covet, so I do it, I am not acting out of love, I am doing it just because God said so.

That is legalism, not law. and will never help anyone to learn how to love.

 

[KohenMatt]

no I have not.

why?

I want a relationship with God. Not a lets go down the list and check all of the things I have to do or God will be angry with me.

again, as paul said. speaking of going to the law.

Gal 4:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But then, indeed, when you did not know God, you served those which by nature are not gods. (speaking of paganism and all their ritual observances) [SUP]9 [/SUP]But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage? [SUP]10 [/SUP]You observe days and months and seasons and years. (speaking of the observances, traditions of the law) [SUP]11 [/SUP]I am afraid for you, lest I have labored for you in vain.

so why would paul say this, if we were supposed to realte to God through ritual observance, of feasts, holidays and holy days?

You seem to think its impossible to keep the feasts or the Law with a heart for God and to strengthen your relationship with Him. It's true that merely keeping the feasts or the Law as a mental checklist isn't pleasing to God. But apparently, you've never tried and just assume it's not possible. I don't celebrate the Feasts out of ritual obligation. I celebrate God's feasts because I love Him and others.

 

[KohenMatt]

No I do not.

God has written the law in our hearts, Our sins and lawless deads he will remember no more.

Yes, it is good to go over the OT, and see what it says, and see how Jesus fulfilled those things.

But I do not need to study them to know how to love. or how to be a righteous person. they were never given for that purpose.

Then why read and study the New Testament to know how to love if He's written it on our hearts as well?

Our righteousness doesn't come from the Law. That has been firmly established by everyone, including us Law-keepers, so please stop attacking an argument no one is making.

And absolutely the Law was given to show us how to love God and others. That was God's purpose in giving them.

 

[Willie-T]

A question we could ask ourselves that would show us a lot might be this........
If a stranger needed help, but to give that help would mean forsaking the celebration of a feast or festival..... Which would we choose?

 

[just-me]

Have you ever kept any of God's feast days? Have you ever tried to celebrate them with the purpose of loving God and your neighbor? Have you ever read a specific instruction in the Law and observed it with the intent of loving someone through it? It's easy to criticize something when you've never done it. If you haven't, then you really don't know what you're speaking of. I don't say that to insult you, just to point out that you practically and physically don't know.

I'll even be so bold as to say that celebrating Passover is FAR more loving than celebrating Easter. Why?
#1 Easter isn't even Biblical, let alone taught or observed by any of the early church fathers or saints. Passover is and was.
# 2 At Passover, you are commanded to come together and share the meal with others (loving others).
# 3 You are celebrating God's people as a whole being delivered from bondage by a merciful Savior (loving God).

Through the translations that finally gave us the English translation of scriptures, Easter originated with Ashtaroth, the goddess of fertility along with Baal the sun god. If we acknowledge Pesach, we acknowledge God's origin of the celebration which we all should endeavor to understand, and comply with a joyful heart to its spiritual relevance. If we acknowledge "Easter Sunday" we acknowledge Ashtaroth Baal even if we have no idea the form of worship that went into the worshiping of these false gods. Colored eggs and bunnies with hot-cross buns are part of the Ashtaroth Baal celebration. I know that I'm stirring the pot, but I think God wanted me to make this relation.
Pesach Passover is the reason for the season.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You seem to think its impossible to keep the feasts or the Law with a heart for God and to strengthen your relationship with Him. It's true that merely keeping the feasts or the Law as a mental checklist isn't pleasing to God. But apparently, you've never tried and just assume it's not possible. I don't celebrate the Feasts out of ritual obligation. I celebrate God's feasts because I love Him and others.

I just trust what Paul said in gal 4.

if you want to ignore what paul said, thats on you.

I do not tell my kids they have to worship me by having a special holiday of feast for me. that would not be love or a relationship thing. in fact would be odd. and would not teach my children anything about me. Only my love for them, and them sharing that love with others can show them about me.

That is what God wants, not religious ceremony and tradition.

Do you want to have a relationship with God. or be like the pagans do? Is God a pagan God?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Then why read and study the New Testament to know how to love if He's written it on our hearts as well?

Our righteousness doesn't come from the Law. That has been firmly established by everyone, including us Law-keepers, so please stop attacking an argument no one is making.

And absolutely the Law was given to show us how to love God and others. That was God's purpose in giving them.

No it was not gods purpose.

Not only have you ignored gal 4. but you ignore gal 3.

[SUP]19 [/SUP]What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.

[SUP]21 [/SUP]Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. [SUP]22 [/SUP]But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. [SUP]23 [/SUP]But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. [SUP]25 [/SUP]But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

sorry, but if your going to ignore the words of paul. then I can not help you.

 

[valiant]

Then why read and study the New Testament to know how to love if He's written it on our hearts as well?

Our righteousness doesn't come from the Law. That has been firmly established by everyone, including us Law-keepers, so please stop attacking an argument no one is making.

And absolutely the Law was given to show us how to love God and others. That was God's purpose in giving them.

well if you want to be lawkeepers, be so. But do not try to enforce your ideas on others. We believe in following Christ and His teachings.

 

[KohenMatt]

lol. Nope

I love by not thinking of self. but thinking of others.

If I love my neighbor, the thought of coveting what they have will never cross my mind. I do not need to know the law that says do not covet, Even if I never heard there was a law that said this, I would never break it, because I am always thinking of love.

If I hear, Do not covet. And my only response is God said do not covet, so I do it, I am not acting out of love, I am doing it just because God said so.

That is legalism, not law. and will never help anyone to learn how to love.

I'm not talking about "thinking of self". I'm talking about having a desire to know how God wants us to live.

You're right. God does place a desire in us to not covet. The purpose of the Law is to show us how to not covet. It's easy to say "I won't think about coveting. I'll just not covet." But it is selfish to say, "I don't need to Learn how, so I'll just ignore Gods commands of how to not covet."

If you're going to say you love someone you have to practically show it by action as well as heart. How do you know how to practically love someone?

 

[KohenMatt]

A question we could ask ourselves that would show us a lot might be this........
If a stranger needed help, but to give that help would mean forsaking the celebration of a feast or festival..... Which would we choose?

Help the stranger. Without a doubt.

 

[just-me]

A question we could ask ourselves that would show us a lot might be this........
If a stranger needed help, but to give that help would mean forsaking the celebration of a feast or festival..... Which would we choose?

From what I read in the Bible, the tabernacles (Sukkot) for the feast were constructed on a day that God ordained as a Sabbath (Tishri 15). This, to me, is a clear indication that the Sabbath (made for man and God being the "Lord of the Sabbath") is a day to do God's will and cease from our own works as God did His on the seventh day.

"Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it." (Hebrews 4:1)

 

[KohenMatt]

I just trust what Paul said in gal 4.

if you want to ignore what paul said, thats on you.

I do not tell my kids they have to worship me by having a special holiday of feast for me. that would not be love or a relationship thing. in fact would be odd. and would not teach my children anything about me. Only my love for them, and them sharing that love with others can show them about me.

That is what God wants, not religious ceremony and tradition.

Do you want to have a relationship with God. or be like the pagans do? Is God a pagan God?

Yet you would expect your kids to do something to show that they love you. And not just ignore all of your instructions and make up their own ways to love you. You're right in that God wants authentic love and not just religious ceremony. But the instruction was to do both.

And I have no idea how you equate loving God by obeying to love with with doing what Pagans do.

 

[KohenMatt]

No it was not gods purpose.

Not only have you ignored gal 4. but you ignore gal 3.

[SUP]19 [/SUP]What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.

[SUP]21 [/SUP]Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. [SUP]22 [/SUP]But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. [SUP]23 [/SUP]But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. [SUP]25 [/SUP]But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

sorry, but if your going to ignore the words of paul. then I can not help you.

We've been over this before, but show what God said the purpose of the Law was when He gave it, not just Paul's response to those who were doing it wrong.

And I don't ignore Paul's words. I hold them in the same esteem you do.

 

[Willie-T]

Help the stranger. Without a doubt.

Then what is this discussion for? Each of does what we feel is right, and honoring God.... and we don't need to try to lay a burden of following our example upon anyone else. Why do others even have to know we are doing whatever we feel is something we need to do?

 

[KohenMatt]

well if you want to be lawkeepers, be so. But do not try to enforce your ideas on others. We believe in following Christ and His teachings.

And I believe in following Him and His teachings just as much as you do.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I'm not talking about "thinking of self". I'm talking about having a desire to know how God wants us to live.

You're right. God does place a desire in us to not covet. The purpose of the Law is to show us how to not covet. It's easy to say "I won't think about coveting. I'll just not covet." But it is selfish to say, "I don't need to Learn how, so I'll just ignore Gods commands of how to not covet."

If you're going to say you love someone you have to practically show it by action as well as heart. How do you know how to practically love someone?

NO, IT IS NOT THE PURPOSE OF THE LAW

The purpose of the law is exactly what Paul said it was. to prove, if we have coveted, we have failed to live up to Gods righteous standard. and need Christ. It is a schoolmaster TO LEAD IS TO CHRIST. But after we have faith, WE NO LONGER NEED THE SCHOOLMASTER.

The law. "do not covet" does not tell us how to do that. it can;t it just plainly says, Do not covet.

all it can do is give us a false sense of security, I do not covet my neighbor so I must love him, yet in reality I can hate the person with everything I have. or he has nothing I want to begin with.

Just because I do not covet what he has, does not mean I love him.

Thats the problem with your style of legalism, it gives people a false hope. a false sense of security, and a false sense of what love really is.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yet you would expect your kids to do something to show that they love you. And not just ignore all of your instructions and make up their own ways to love you. You're right in that God wants authentic love and not just religious ceremony. But the instruction was to do both.

Yeah I do. I would expect them to take the love I have for them, and share it with others. for that is the only way I know they love me.

If they take my love for them, and do not share it with others, I know they do not respect me at all. They are using me.

And I have no idea how you equate loving God by obeying to love with with doing what Pagans do.

If your trying to relate to God by ritualism, then your acting like a pagan. That is what Paul said in gal 4.