Sabbath

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KohenMatt said:
There is no goal of security in following the Law. As has been said ad naseum obedience doesn't earn salvation, justification, righteousness, approval or security with God. It is all done as a response to the love, grace and mercy already given to us.
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If there is no security in it, then why do it. and why not do what he says?

Seek after the things of the spirit. (not the law)

Again, if anything, I see people who do it have a false sense of security. I am doing good. I am loving, because I follow some law. That means nothing.
 
What is with this phrase, "slippery slope?" Is that all that keeps you in a relationship with God, following a list of "do's & don'ts" so you won't slide away from Him?
 
eternally-gratefull said:
No, Obeying him does not involve ritual and ceremony, God only introduced ritual and ceremony as a teaching tool. so when Christ came, they would know it was him.

God wants a relationship with you. Not you to repetatively over and over do things which mean nothing for you or him.

Christ came, the law is no longer needed once you realise this.
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Well, that is where we disagree. You don't think God is pleased with the rituals He told His people to do when they are out of love and obedience.

I do.
 
eternally-gratefull said:

Yet paul said when you go back to that, he fears for you. And fears he did his work in vein,

Why will you not listen to paul? Why would paul make such a harsh warning against ritualism, if ritualism can be good in any sense?
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The reason. Why he fears it is because they were doing those things with the wrong motive: earning favor or status before God. That is the context of all of Paul's criticisms of the Law. But the God who gave those instructions to be done forever, that Jesus also said to do forever still stands, as long as they are done with the proper motivation. Paul cannot speak against the very Law he kept himself, and the Law that Jesus told His followers to keep. So they reason he came against those who kept it was for a completely different situation.
 
Willie-T said:
No, what I choose to do is probably one of the MOST instructed things we are left with...(yet few of us do)... not just something I thought might be nice.
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I guess I'm confused if we're getting into specific areas of obedience. I thought we were talking about generalities. I'm not sure which specific instruction you're referring to.
 
KohenMatt said:
The reason. Why he fears it is because they were doing those things with the wrong motive: earning favor or status before God. That is the context of all of Paul's criticisms of the Law. But the God who gave those instructions to be done forever, that Jesus also said to do forever still stands, as long as they are done with the proper motivation. Paul cannot speak against the very Law he kept himself, and the Law that Jesus told His followers to keep. So they reason he came against those who kept it was for a completely different situation.
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He did not say that, your adding to the word.

He said they were going back. He said NOTHING ABOUT MOTIVE!

Your adding to the word of God my friend.
 
KohenMatt said:
Well, that is where we disagree. You don't think God is pleased with the rituals He told His people to do when they are out of love and obedience.

I do.
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No, because he gave them for a reason. As paul said in Gal 4. to keep us until faith is revealed.

He did not give us themm to tell us how to love, it can not show us how to love yet I have already proved that.

 
eternally-gratefull said:
If there is no security in it, then why do it. and why not do what he says?

Seek after the things of the spirit. (not the law)

Again, if anything, I see people who do it have a false sense of security. I am doing good. I am loving, because I follow some law. That means nothing.
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I absolutely seek after the Spirit first and foremost. And the Holy Spirit leads me to obedience to God. And that often includes His Law.

Then you need to see, and start making a distinction between those who obey out of a false sense of security (akin to the Pharisees), and those who obey out of Love (the disciples, Paul, etc).
 
Matthew 15:8,9
8This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

9But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
 
GracethroughfaithinChrist said:
Stop cherry picking and look at the whole context of the NT .......
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You mentioned context and I was complementing your exhortations. These things I "cherry picked" (according to your estimation) are not my words. It is not up to us to pick and choose out of scripture only what we want according to predetermined beliefs. Paul wrote all of Romans and Luke wrote all of Acts. It was them ordained of God not me or you.
 
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Willie-T said:
What is with this phrase, "slippery slope?" Is that all that keeps you in a relationship with God, following a list of "do's & don'ts" so you won't slide away from Him?
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No, you misunderstand what I'm saying. The "slippery slope" is the thinking that we can do what we feel please God, even if we neglect His specific instructions of what to do.

Sigh....again, my obedience to God and His commands do not keep me in right relationship with Him. My obedience to Him is a loving response to the gracious gift that keeps me clean before Him.
 
just-me said:
You mentioned context and I was complementing your exhortations. These things I "cherry picked" are not my words. It is not up to us to pick and choose out of scripture only what we want according to predetermined beliefs. Paul wrote all of Romans and Luke wrote all of Acts. It was them ordained of God not me or you.
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Yeah, you cherry pick verses that are in the written Word out of context to support legalism, while ignoring the whole context of the NT.......your statement does not prove any different.
 
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eternally-gratefull said:
He did not say that, your adding to the word.

He said they were going back. He said NOTHING ABOUT MOTIVE!

Your adding to the word of God my friend.
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If you can't discern the context of each of the epistles and what specific questions and situations Paul was addressing, then we're not going to be on the same page in this discussion.
 
KohenMatt said:
I guess I'm confused if we're getting into specific areas of obedience. I thought we were talking about generalities. I'm not sure which specific instruction you're referring to.
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And you don't need to. Because then, I would be doing just what you seem to want to do... giving you rules for worship according to how I see things.
 
GracethroughfaithinChrist said:
Yeah, you cherry pick verses that are in the written Word out of context to support legalism, your statement does not prove any different.
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Does your faith do this? Are you establishing the law by the faith you say you have? What you're describing of yourself seems to be very different than how Paul described his beliefs. Let's see how you interpret the scripture I presented in agreement with the scripture you presented. If there is a seeming contradiction, then something is not right in how we understand the truth. Describe the proper context of this verse please.

Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. Romans 3:31
 
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KohenMatt said:
If you can't discern the context of each of the epistles and what specific questions and situations Paul was addressing, then we're not going to be on the same page in this discussion.
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And this is the same mountain you and I have gone around many times before, and it has almost always been without fruit. In that case, it is best to agree to disagree and instead appreciate the sincere relationship each of us with God, and continue to be encouraged by it. At this point, I will respectfully bow out this particular discussion with you in order to not get caught up in debates that cause quarrels (2 Tim 2:23).
 
Willie-T said:
And you don't need to. Because then, I would be doing just what you seem to want to do... giving you rules for worship according to how I see things.
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I don't want to get into your relationship with God as it pertains to specific areas of obedience to God. As I mentioned, that is between you and God. I am simply saying that as Christians, we should not ignore God's specific instructions because we don't "feel" like or "believe we should. And I am guilty of that at times as well.
 
KohenMatt said:
No, you misunderstand what I'm saying. The "slippery slope" is the thinking that we can do what we feel please God, even if we neglect His specific instructions of what to do.

Sigh....again, my obedience to God and His commands do not keep me in right relationship with Him. My obedience to Him is a loving response to the gracious gift that keeps me clean before Him.
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And when was the last time you either stoned your stubborn son, or helped in the stoning of another's? You're flailing in the wind here, trying to prove your obedience (really "a sacrifice" offering) and what He said He wants is mercy, instead.
 
KohenMatt said:
I don't want to get into your relationship with God as it pertains to specific areas of obedience to God. As I mentioned, that is between you and God. I am simply saying that as Christians, we should not ignore God's specific instructions because we don't "feel" like or "believe we should. And I am guilty of that at times as well.
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And yet, you ARE, when you tell others that they should be doing this or that.

Simply say.... this is what I do........... PERIOD. If it is a matter God wants to deal with someone else on..... guess what? He is capable.
 
Willie-T said:
And when was the last time you either stoned your stubborn son, or helped in the stoning of another's? You're flailing in the wind here, trying to prove your obedience (really "a sacrifice" offering) and what He said He wants is mercy, instead.
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As I've said repeatedly since I've been here, all commands in the Law have a physical and/or spiritual application. All all are applicable to us in some way. But all should be done in light of the mercy and grace God has shown us.

Do I physically stone others? Of course not. It is God who now doles out whatever consequences He deems necessary in light of Jesus' sacrifice. Is there a spiritual stoning of a sinful heart or mindset in me that needs to take place? Yes. That is the spiritual application of the Law.
 
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