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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5uvF2ovEHA to get back on topic 
M
wonder why mybags and miktre feel threatened by pretrib rapture
i guess because they dont like having to be ready at any time
they would rather get 7 years warning to actually get saved or at least get their acts together
i guess because they dont like having to be ready at any time
they would rather get 7 years warning to actually get saved or at least get their acts together
G
The Pretribulation Rapture
The Glorious Appearing
The most obvious difference is that at the Rapture believers will be caught up in the louds to meet the Lord in the air. In other words, at the Rapture, Jesus receives us to Himself, While at His Glorious Appearing Jesus returns to earth with us.
The Bible tells us this event will come unexpectedly, like a thief in the night, at a time when people are saying Peace arid Safety’. (1 Thessalonians 5.1-3).
Jesus said: Therefore you also be ready for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect (Matthew 24.44)
It will be at a time when people are going about their everyday business, doing normal things like eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. (Luke 17.26-37).
The only way this event can be unexpected is if it comes before the final 7-year tribulation. By the end of this time it will be obvious to anyone who knows the Bible that Jesus is coming back to the earth as the armies gather at Armageddon, 3 ½ years after the Antichrist and the False Prophet set up the Mark of the Beast system. No one will be saying ‘Peace and Safety’ after the horrors of the great tribulation. Life will not be going on as normal. And you should even be able to work out the date — 42 months after the setting up of the image to the beast in Revelation 13.
One of the strongest arguments for the Pre-Tribulation Rapture position is the Scriptural doctrine of inminency. Repeatedly the Bible tells us that this event could happen at any moment. No event must precede it.
- Christ comes for His own (John 14:3; 1 Thessalonians 4:17)
- He comes in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:17)
- He comes to claim his bride (John 14:3; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17)
- Only His own see Him (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18)
- Saved are delivered from wrath (1 Thessalonians 1:10, 5:9; Revelation 3:10)
The Glorious Appearing
- Christ comes with His own (Jude 14-15; Revelation 1:7; 19:14)
- He comes to the earth (Zechariah 14:4-5; Acts 1:11)
- He returns with His bride (Revelation 19:6-1 4)
- Every eye shall see Him (Revelation 1:7; Matthew 24:30)
- Unsaved experience the wrath of God (Nahurn 1:2; Revelation 6-18)
The most obvious difference is that at the Rapture believers will be caught up in the louds to meet the Lord in the air. In other words, at the Rapture, Jesus receives us to Himself, While at His Glorious Appearing Jesus returns to earth with us.
The Bible tells us this event will come unexpectedly, like a thief in the night, at a time when people are saying Peace arid Safety’. (1 Thessalonians 5.1-3).
Jesus said: Therefore you also be ready for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect (Matthew 24.44)
It will be at a time when people are going about their everyday business, doing normal things like eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. (Luke 17.26-37).
The only way this event can be unexpected is if it comes before the final 7-year tribulation. By the end of this time it will be obvious to anyone who knows the Bible that Jesus is coming back to the earth as the armies gather at Armageddon, 3 ½ years after the Antichrist and the False Prophet set up the Mark of the Beast system. No one will be saying ‘Peace and Safety’ after the horrors of the great tribulation. Life will not be going on as normal. And you should even be able to work out the date — 42 months after the setting up of the image to the beast in Revelation 13.
One of the strongest arguments for the Pre-Tribulation Rapture position is the Scriptural doctrine of inminency. Repeatedly the Bible tells us that this event could happen at any moment. No event must precede it.
I've resigned myself to the belief that, like the bible, people only like to pick and choose what they see, hear, or read....oh the beautiful power of choice we have all been blessed with.
if you're not willing to sit down and watch what I posted, you don't get to trash it. I would extend the same courtesy but I guess that's not the world we live in...
M
The Pretribulation Rapture
The Glorious Appearing
The most obvious difference is that at the Rapture believers will be caught up in the louds to meet the Lord in the air. In other words, at the Rapture, Jesus receives us to Himself, While at His Glorious Appearing Jesus returns to earth with us.
The Bible tells us this event will come unexpectedly, like a thief in the night, at a time when people are saying Peace arid Safety’. (1 Thessalonians 5.1-3).
Jesus said: Therefore you also be ready for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect (Matthew 24.44)
It will be at a time when people are going about their everyday business, doing normal things like eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. (Luke 17.26-37).
The only way this event can be unexpected is if it comes before the final 7-year tribulation. By the end of this time it will be obvious to anyone who knows the Bible that Jesus is coming back to the earth as the armies gather at Armageddon, 3 ½ years after the Antichrist and the False Prophet set up the Mark of the Beast system. No one will be saying ‘Peace and Safety’ after the horrors of the great tribulation. Life will not be going on as normal. And you should even be able to work out the date — 42 months after the setting up of the image to the beast in Revelation 13.
One of the strongest arguments for the Pre-Tribulation Rapture position is the Scriptural doctrine of inminency. Repeatedly the Bible tells us that this event could happen at any moment. No event must precede it.
- Christ comes for His own (John 14:3; 1 Thessalonians 4:17)
- He comes in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:17)
- He comes to claim his bride (John 14:3; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17)
- Only His own see Him (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18)
- Saved are delivered from wrath (1 Thessalonians 1:10, 5:9; Revelation 3:10)
The Glorious Appearing
- Christ comes with His own (Jude 14-15; Revelation 1:7; 19:14)
- He comes to the earth (Zechariah 14:4-5; Acts 1:11)
- He returns with His bride (Revelation 19:6-1 4)
- Every eye shall see Him (Revelation 1:7; Matthew 24:30)
- Unsaved experience the wrath of God (Nahurn 1:2; Revelation 6-18)
The most obvious difference is that at the Rapture believers will be caught up in the louds to meet the Lord in the air. In other words, at the Rapture, Jesus receives us to Himself, While at His Glorious Appearing Jesus returns to earth with us.
The Bible tells us this event will come unexpectedly, like a thief in the night, at a time when people are saying Peace arid Safety’. (1 Thessalonians 5.1-3).
Jesus said: Therefore you also be ready for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect (Matthew 24.44)
It will be at a time when people are going about their everyday business, doing normal things like eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. (Luke 17.26-37).
The only way this event can be unexpected is if it comes before the final 7-year tribulation. By the end of this time it will be obvious to anyone who knows the Bible that Jesus is coming back to the earth as the armies gather at Armageddon, 3 ½ years after the Antichrist and the False Prophet set up the Mark of the Beast system. No one will be saying ‘Peace and Safety’ after the horrors of the great tribulation. Life will not be going on as normal. And you should even be able to work out the date — 42 months after the setting up of the image to the beast in Revelation 13.
One of the strongest arguments for the Pre-Tribulation Rapture position is the Scriptural doctrine of inminency. Repeatedly the Bible tells us that this event could happen at any moment. No event must precede it.
G
Love the song.
Too much bass in the arrangement.
From: The Veil will be Lifted - Update 2002 Jamma Mokhriby
In Rom. 11:25 we are told that a hardening of Israel has taken place "until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in." The question which should arise in a person’s mind after reading this prophecy is, "Gentiles come into where?"
The Apostle Paul is prophesying of the awesome day of awakening when the nation of Israel will begin to recognize that Jesus Christ is the Messiah and that this softening of Israel’s thoughts towards God’s Son will not take place until the number of Gentile believers, which are to comprise the body of the Church, are accounted for. Only after the final Gentile believer enters the fold will God complete His promised redemption of Israel. "And so all Israel shall be Saved."
It would appear that another facet can be seen in the words of the Lord when in Matt. 19:30, He told His disciples, "But many who are first will be last, and the last first." Where the early Church was decidedly Jewish in its composition, at her full maturity Gentiles are prophesied to close her ranks.
It is with full confidence in the Scriptures that we teach that when the fullness of the tally of those destined to complete the number of the Lord Jesus Christ’s Church is reached, He will return in the clouds to gather to Himself in the heavens every dead and living born-again believer at the glorious event known as the Rapture. See I Thess. 4:13-18 & I Cor. 15:50-58.
Until that moment in time, individuals of Jewish descent have been finding Jesus as their Savior and have become children of the united family of Christ found in the unsegregated body of believers that make up His Church. The miraculous removal of the Church at the Rapture will be the wake up call of the ages and will initiate the bringing of salvation to the entire nation of Israel.
The veil over corporate Israel’s eyes spoken of in II Cor. 3:14-18 will begin to be lifted by God and the unifying enlightenment which has individually been experienced by believers of every race and nationality will one day soon begin to fill the hearts and minds of Israel.
Quoting from II Cor. 3:14-18 we read, "But their minds were hardened. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ. But even in this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their hearts. Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord."
It is intriguing for readers of such biblical prophecy to recognize that great messianic truths of the Old Testament remain hidden to this day from devout Jewish scholars. The lack of prophetic understanding does not end with Israel’s inability to recognize their Messiah and His blood atonement upon the cross as was prophesied in Isa. 53 & Psa. 22, but even for what would appear to be obvious recognizable current events that were foretold in great detail in the Old Testament. Endtime prophecy remains hidden and obscured from their vision for the time being.
C
The Pretribulation Rapture
The Glorious Appearing
The Bible tells us this event will come unexpectedly, like a thief in the night, at a time when people are saying Peace arid Safety’. (1 Thessalonians 5.1-3).
Jesus said: Therefore you also be ready for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect (Matthew 24.44)
It will be at a time when people are going about their everyday business, doing normal things like eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. (Luke 17.26-37).
The only way this event can be unexpected is if it comes before the final 7-year tribulation. By the end of this time it will be obvious to anyone who knows the Bible that Jesus is coming back to the earth as the armies gather at Armageddon, 3 ½ years after the Antichrist and the False Prophet set up the Mark of the Beast system. No one will be saying ‘Peace and Safety’ after the horrors of the great tribulation. Life will not be going on as normal. And you should even be able to work out the date — 42 months after the setting up of the image to the beast in Revelation 13.
One of the strongest arguments for the Pre-Tribulation Rapture position is the Scriptural doctrine of inminency. Repeatedly the Bible tells us that this event could happen at any moment. No event must precede it.
- Christ comes for His own (John 14:3; 1 Thessalonians 4:17)
- He comes in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:17)
- He comes to claim his bride (John 14:3; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17)
- Only His own see Him (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18)
- Saved are delivered from wrath (1 Thessalonians 1:10, 5:9; Revelation 3:10)
The Glorious Appearing
- Christ comes with His own (Jude 14-15; Revelation 1:7; 19:14)
- He comes to the earth (Zechariah 14:4-5; Acts 1:11)
- He returns with His bride (Revelation 19:6-1 4)
- Every eye shall see Him (Revelation 1:7; Matthew 24:30)
- Unsaved experience the wrath of God (Nahurn 1:2; Revelation 6-18)
The Bible tells us this event will come unexpectedly, like a thief in the night, at a time when people are saying Peace arid Safety’. (1 Thessalonians 5.1-3).
Jesus said: Therefore you also be ready for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect (Matthew 24.44)
It will be at a time when people are going about their everyday business, doing normal things like eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. (Luke 17.26-37).
The only way this event can be unexpected is if it comes before the final 7-year tribulation. By the end of this time it will be obvious to anyone who knows the Bible that Jesus is coming back to the earth as the armies gather at Armageddon, 3 ½ years after the Antichrist and the False Prophet set up the Mark of the Beast system. No one will be saying ‘Peace and Safety’ after the horrors of the great tribulation. Life will not be going on as normal. And you should even be able to work out the date — 42 months after the setting up of the image to the beast in Revelation 13.
One of the strongest arguments for the Pre-Tribulation Rapture position is the Scriptural doctrine of inminency. Repeatedly the Bible tells us that this event could happen at any moment. No event must precede it.
M
The Pretribulation Rapture
The Glorious Appearing
The most obvious difference is that at the Rapture believers will be caught up in the louds to meet the Lord in the air. In other words, at the Rapture, Jesus receives us to Himself, While at His Glorious Appearing Jesus returns to earth with us.
The Bible tells us this event will come unexpectedly, like a thief in the night, at a time when people are saying Peace arid Safety’. (1 Thessalonians 5.1-3).
Jesus said: Therefore you also be ready for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect (Matthew 24.44)
It will be at a time when people are going about their everyday business, doing normal things like eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. (Luke 17.26-37).
The only way this event can be unexpected is if it comes before the final 7-year tribulation. By the end of this time it will be obvious to anyone who knows the Bible that Jesus is coming back to the earth as the armies gather at Armageddon, 3 ½ years after the Antichrist and the False Prophet set up the Mark of the Beast system. No one will be saying ‘Peace and Safety’ after the horrors of the great tribulation. Life will not be going on as normal. And you should even be able to work out the date — 42 months after the setting up of the image to the beast in Revelation 13.
One of the strongest arguments for the Pre-Tribulation Rapture position is the Scriptural doctrine of inminency. Repeatedly the Bible tells us that this event could happen at any moment. No event must precede it.
- Christ comes for His own (John 14:3; 1 Thessalonians 4:17)
- He comes in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:17)
- He comes to claim his bride (John 14:3; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17)
- Only His own see Him (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18)
- Saved are delivered from wrath (1 Thessalonians 1:10, 5:9; Revelation 3:10)
The Glorious Appearing
- Christ comes with His own (Jude 14-15; Revelation 1:7; 19:14)
- He comes to the earth (Zechariah 14:4-5; Acts 1:11)
- He returns with His bride (Revelation 19:6-1 4)
- Every eye shall see Him (Revelation 1:7; Matthew 24:30)
- Unsaved experience the wrath of God (Nahurn 1:2; Revelation 6-18)
The most obvious difference is that at the Rapture believers will be caught up in the louds to meet the Lord in the air. In other words, at the Rapture, Jesus receives us to Himself, While at His Glorious Appearing Jesus returns to earth with us.
The Bible tells us this event will come unexpectedly, like a thief in the night, at a time when people are saying Peace arid Safety’. (1 Thessalonians 5.1-3).
Jesus said: Therefore you also be ready for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect (Matthew 24.44)
It will be at a time when people are going about their everyday business, doing normal things like eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. (Luke 17.26-37).
The only way this event can be unexpected is if it comes before the final 7-year tribulation. By the end of this time it will be obvious to anyone who knows the Bible that Jesus is coming back to the earth as the armies gather at Armageddon, 3 ½ years after the Antichrist and the False Prophet set up the Mark of the Beast system. No one will be saying ‘Peace and Safety’ after the horrors of the great tribulation. Life will not be going on as normal. And you should even be able to work out the date — 42 months after the setting up of the image to the beast in Revelation 13.
One of the strongest arguments for the Pre-Tribulation Rapture position is the Scriptural doctrine of inminency. Repeatedly the Bible tells us that this event could happen at any moment. No event must precede it.
John 14:3
3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
Says he will come again and yes he will after the workings of satan. No rapture here.
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
He's bringing with Him those that already have died in Christ.
15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
At the 7th trump Christ comes. Satan comes at the 6th trump, the 6th seal, and the 6th vile. Did you not read the seven seals Christ gave us in Matt 24?
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Yes we will be caught up in the spirit with the cloud of angels. Interpret however you wish but still does not say this will happen before the rapture. No rapture here.
1 Thessalonians 1:10
10And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
Says Christ will deliver us from His wrath that He will bring at the end of the great tribulation, I didn't see anything about a rapture. No rapture here.
1 Thessalonians 5:9
9For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
The Bible never compares us not suffering His wrath with not going through the tribulation. If you read the whole of 1 Thes 5 you can easily see it is satan that comes first. No rapture here.
Revelation 3:10
10Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth
You think flying us away in a time of trouble is how God operates?
Compare:
John 17:15
I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
I Cor 10:13
13There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it. No rapture here.
Jude 14-15
14And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
15To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
Oh I see what's going on here, any time Enoch is mentioned you go on auto-rapture mode. Why wouldn't the Bible tell us we would go like Enoch before the great tribulation. Because it's not God's plan. No rapture here.
Revelation 1:7
7Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
No mention of a pre-tribulation gathering here.No rapture here.
Revelation 19:6-14
6And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
7Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
9And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
10And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
11And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
How and the heck can you get a pre-tribulation gathering out of this? Notice the author stops right at verse 14 because he will run into problems with verse 15:
15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
How can he explain 15 when it speaks of Christ's wrath at His coming? No rapture here.
Zechariah 14:4-5
4And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
Wow, says just the opposite. No rapture here.
Acts 1:11
11Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
This is talks of dying and then going up to heaven. Even if you want to believe it concerns our gathering together unto him in the endtimes it doesn't say it will be happening before the tribulation. Revelations speaks of the new heaven and new earth and the new Jerusalem coming down to us. No rapture here.
Matthew 24:30
30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Funny that the author leaves out the prior verses and tries to make a pre-tribulation gathering out of this. Typical rapture propaganda. Read the rest of the verses, it's not hard. No rapture here.
Nahum 1:2
2God is jealous, and the LORD revengeth; the LORD revengeth, and is furious; the LORD will take vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserveth wrath for his enemies.
Saying that you must be raptured to escape God's wrath is one heck of a stretch here. No rapture here.
1 Thessalonians 5.1-3
1But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
Who is the theif? Satan. When is the anti-christ's reign? In the night. Why would the day come as night? It's because Christ is coming to destroy satan's false kingdom.
3For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
Satan is the one who comes to make a false peace, Christ comes to make war.
Once again lets look at the rest of the verses.
4But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
7For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
8But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
Why would we need the amour of God if we were to be raptured away?
9For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
Amen. Doesn't say pre-tribulation gathering, rather Christ comes unexpectedly. No rapture here.
Matthew 24.44
44Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
Another one verser. Read the whole chapter. No rapture here.
Luke 17.26-37
26And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
28Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
31In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.
32Remember Lot's wife.
33Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
34I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
36Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
37And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.
Notice the last verse it should read: 'Wheresoever the carcase is, thither will the vultures be gathered together'.
Maybe the author needs to read the story of Noah again. What was going on in the days of Noah? The fallen angels were here and so shall it be when Christ returns to destroy satans kingdom and all the fallen angels with him. No rapture here.
M
Challenge for all rapturists.
I know the rapturist prefers just one or two verses here and there to make his doctrine. So I shall provide him with one or two verses from here and there that shall utterly destroy his heretic doctrine.I challenge any rapturist to explain away these verses. He must make God's word void to hold on to his false doctrine, that will never happen.
The word's of Christ himself cannot be explained away.
MATTHEW 24
29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Can't be much clearer than this, can it? This alone should be nuff said.
Rev 9:3-4 (the Great Tribulation)
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
Save to say there will be men with the seal of God in their forehead.
1 Corinthians 15:51-55
51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
Can anyone one here not count to seven? Satan comes at the sixth trump, the sixth seal, the sixth vile.
Ephesians 6:10-18 (King James Version)
10Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
11Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
18Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
What evil day do you think he's talking about?
Revelation 13:12-15 (King James Version)
12And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
Who are the one's not worshipping the image of the beast? Only the true believers of God's word. Every other religion of the world shall worship the beast.
Matthew 24:21-25 (King James Version)
21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25Behold, I have told you before.
Why shorten the days of the great tribulation if God's elect have already flown away?
Revelation 7:13-17 (King James Version)
13And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: anthe devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life. d he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
It reads: "Out of," not "out before.
Revelation 18:3-4 (King James Version)
3For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
4And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
We won't suffer God's wrath. Did the children in Egypt suffer the plagues?
Daniel 12:11-12 (King James Version)
11And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
12Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.
Wait friend, don't follow the first to come.
Revelation 2:10-11 (King James Version)
10Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
11He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
This is how you receive the crown of life not by flying away.
2 Thessalonians 2
1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
Why do we wait? Because satan will be here defacto setting up his false kingdom.
Revelation 11:13
13And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
If God's remnant were gone then there would be no one to give glory to God.
In their fear, the rapturist has devised an imaginary escape plan from the end-time prophesies of God. Oh how satan loves to play upon fear. They would be better to have faith that God shall protect them as He has promised them that He would during the Great Tribulation. Stand up and act like a man, woman, or child of God and quit cowering to satan, he cannot hurt those who have the seal of God in their forehead, that is to say, God's truth! Learn the truth and be set free from the bondage of fear.
I must be emphatic in saying that most people (preachers/teachers) who teach the Rapture theory are not evil satan worshipping men. They themselves have been deceived and now they deceive others without even knowing it. So be kind on your preacher/teacher and show him the errors in the Rapture theory, they deserve the benefit of the doubt, just as you do, who may also have been deceived, deserve the assumption that you have been spreading satan's lies unaware. God has a reason for everything. Perhaps a person who comes out of the Rapture cult can have better success helping others out of it. God knows. And remember, false teaching is a sin like any other in the respect that you can take it to the cross and be forgiven by the precious blood of our Savior Jesus Christ, repenting and then go on with your life forgiven of that sin. As Jesus told the adulterous woman:
John 8:10-11
10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
I'll leave you with this.10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
2 Timothy 4
1I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
C
"Rapturists" do not believe that none will be saved during Jacob's Trouble.
"Rapturists" do not believe that there will be no trouble prior to the parousia.
"Rapturists" do not believe that there will be no signs before the parousia.
The last trump doesn't mean that there will never be a trumpet sound again, but that it is the final sign before we see Jesus. In this we disagree on when that final sign is.
Evil days--do you not think we see evil days even now?
Come out from her--could do a whole post on this. I think the great whore exists even now.
The crown of life is a timeless message, so I don't see your point here.
I believe, as you, that we will know the son of perdition before the parousia.
"Rapturists" do not believe that there will be no trouble prior to the parousia.
"Rapturists" do not believe that there will be no signs before the parousia.
The last trump doesn't mean that there will never be a trumpet sound again, but that it is the final sign before we see Jesus. In this we disagree on when that final sign is.
Evil days--do you not think we see evil days even now?
Come out from her--could do a whole post on this. I think the great whore exists even now.
The crown of life is a timeless message, so I don't see your point here.
I believe, as you, that we will know the son of perdition before the parousia.