People think you have to keep grace on a leash

[BradC]

1. You should be ashamed of yourself. May the Lord temporarily stop your pushing of such evil here to show you otherwise. A believer striving to do what is right always and stumbling on occasion (Not intending or wanting to sin) is not an excuse for sin. Does the drunk who stumbles on his road to recovery in the wrong? Is the person who stumbles on their road to losing a bunch of weight in the wrong? I say thee nay. A person who is striving to do what is right is not in the wrong.

OSAS is the evil teaching that gives a person an excuse to sin because you don't ever have to worry about sin. For in OSAS: You can sin and still be saved. No sin can truly separate you from God and His salvation. In other words, it's like telling a child that they shouldn't eat candy but if they do, there is no actual consequences (That will truly matter) in doing so.

2. You can't repent of future sin. That doesn't make any sense. You can only confess of past sins. Nowhere does the Bible teach that we are forgiven of future sin. Nowhere did the apostles teach such a thing. One has to take the word "all" and make it say that. No verse specifically says future sin is forgiven.

3. I actually do not believe you when you say that one who practices sin does not know God. You believe a person can be out of fellowship with God and still be saved. Which is basically saying they can sin and still be saved. You also don't believe any sin can separate a person from the love of God. You believe physical death is the result for sin and not spiritual death for the believer. Yet it is different somehow for the unbeliever. As if God is a respecter of persons.

Jason, the more you give grace to those who are hindered by sin the more likely they are not to continue in it, because they are looking to be condemned, but instead they get grace which they did not expect.

 

[Jason0047]

Oh so Jesus made an excuse for sin? When?

No, you are seriously twisting around or misreading what I had said. I said, quote...

"​

We... never make an excuse for sin (Just like Jesus)."​

In other words, I said we as believers do not make excuses for sin and then I said "Just like Jesus", meaning Jesus did not make an excuse for sin, either.

Jesus did not do anything but live a life 100 % thinking about others, and not self. Which is what made him perfect under the law.

Jesus was perfect not because of what He did but because of WHO He was. Jesus was God Almighty in the flesh.

We can not do this. WHich is why the law still condemns you and why you still have to be saved.

Then Jesus lied to us when He tells us to be ye perfect as our Heavenly Father is perfect. The Scriptures have lied to us when they say to be ye Holy as God is Holy. So no.

yes, the works of christ will be evident within us, That has NEVER been the question, the question is Is CHrist actually in us, are are we look a likes, with no power.

Jesus said we cannot serve two kingdoms. For we will hate the one and love the other. In other words, a believer cannot abide in God and have His Works flowing within their life and yet also be thinking they can sin and still be saved, too.

Anyone can act like a christian talk like a christian and walk like one That will never make one an actual Christian though. We must be adopted by God for this to happen. And he said he will not do this till we completely humble ourselves and admit he is our only way.

So when are you going to do this? You still think your worthy, just because you excuse your sin by saying your sorry. That wont cut it.

So not saying sorry to people when you wronged them works how again? Can Rick push Steve down the stairs and not say he is sorry and not expect Steve to freak out and call the police the next time he sees him? What you propose is madness and goes against all that we know is good and what is taught in Scripture as good. The ignoring of sin within OSAS (Thinking it is forgiven is not going to cut it) because the man who cried out to God to have mercy on him in being a sinner was more justified than the one who did not do so (Luke 18:9-14).

 

[ember]

No, it is not a great point. Actually it doesn't make any sense. In other words, you are trying to tell me that God gave us His laws as a way of not loving us? Since when does God do anything that is not ultimately loving? Even God's Judgments are loving because it is putting an end to evil and giving that which is good victory so as to glorify that which is good (Which is the righteousness of God and or His working that is done thru His people).

Jason I have been mostly reading, rather then responding in this thread, which is how I noticed this obscure response to something I wrote pages back.

What I understand from reading your responses to those who disagree with your position, is that salvation, to you, is not secure unless one somehow manages to achieve that which has never before been achieved...earning one's salvation rather then being IN the One in Whom salvation is complete.

Oh you disagree we can earn salvation? But, you believe that one looses one's salvation if they sin? Do you hear yourself?

You do not understand why the law was given in the first place. It was not given as a set of rules to be obeyed. God would not be loving if that was the intention.

I don't think you grasp the fact that from the beginning of the Bible right through to Revelation, there is only one cure for our hopeless fallen state and it is NOT keeping the law or begging God for forgiveness if we mess up...fall short of the mark. Big news: we are always going to mess up unless we mistakenly believe we have achieved holiness through the law.

How many times does Jesus need to be sacrificed? The OT sacrifices were but a shadow of the perfect and final sacrifice of God's only Son.

So, why was the law given? Galatians 3:

For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”[SUP]e[/SUP]11Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.”[SUP]f[/SUP]12The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.”[SUP]g[/SUP]13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.”[SUP]h[/SUP]14He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

15Brothers and sisters, let me take an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or add to a human covenant that has been duly established, so it is in this case. 16The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,”[SUP]i[/SUP] meaning one person, who is Christ.17What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. 18For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on the promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.19Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was given through angels and entrusted to a mediator. 20A mediator, however, implies more than one party; but God is one.

The law was ADDED...it was NOT there from the beginning and it was ADDED because of sin. The law, in effect, is our JUDGE.

The law saves NO ONE...the law condemns us all to death.

It's really so simple to see, that the only way a person can miss it, is if they do not understand why the law was given, it's purpose is to HIGHLIGHT and UNDERSCORE sin...which separates us from God and CONDEMNS us.

How did Abraham ever please God? The poor man did not have the law!! Abraham pleased God BY HIS FAITH IN GOD THAT GOD WOULD KEEP HIS PROMISES TO HIM.

There is but one way to please God. That way, is having FAITH in what HE HAS DONE FOR US BECAUSE WE CAN NEVER EVER keep the law.

But that's OK, because the law was NEVER intended for salvation anyway.

God's laws are not a way of loving us...the law is God's way of condemning the sinner so that the sinner must turn to God for their salvation.

God is not willing that anyone should perish:

The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. II Peter 3:9

I understand (sadly) that the above does not make sense to you and that is what always happens when a person leaves faith and turns to the law and makes a vain attempt to somehow marry the two and produce children.

Those children are always produced by the will of man....like Hagar's son and the problems that stem from that ungodly union produce more sin and highlight sin and do not glorify the Lord Jesus Christ but in fact take away from His completed work on the cross.

 

[crossnote]

1. You should be ashamed of yourself. May the Lord temporarily stop your pushing of such evil here to show you otherwise. A believer striving to do what is right always and stumbling on occasion (Not intending or wanting to sin) is not an excuse for sin. Does the drunk who stumbles on his road to recovery in the wrong? Is the person who stumbles on their road to losing a bunch of weight in the wrong? I say thee nay. A person who is striving to do what is right is not in the wrong.

OSAS is the evil teaching that gives a person an excuse to sin because you don't ever have to worry about sin. For in OSAS: You can sin and still be saved. No sin can truly separate you from God and His salvation. In other words, it's like telling a child that they shouldn't eat candy but if they do, there is no actual consequences (That will truly matter) in doing so.

2. You can't repent of future sin. That doesn't make any sense. You can only confess of past sins. Nowhere does the Bible teach that we are forgiven of future sin. Nowhere did the apostles teach such a thing. One has to take the word "all" and make it say that. No verse specifically says future sin is forgiven.

3. I actually do not believe you when you say that one who practices sin does not know God. You believe a person can be out of fellowship with God and still be saved. Which is basically saying they can sin and still be saved. You also don't believe any sin can separate a person from the love of God. You believe physical death is the result for sin and not spiritual death for the believer. Yet it is different somehow for the unbeliever. As if God is a respecter of persons.

Jason, again you missed the point. A truly born again person has a new nature and will not want to habitually sin.
Perhaps you keep missing the point because...?

 

[Jason0047]

All sin is contrary to God and is condemned, but that is why Christ came, to be judged for sin and as sin, condemning sin in his own flesh. If we stop right there, (pause) we can see the glory of God in the cross. God was in Christ, on the cross, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them (2 Cor 5:18-20).

Jesus did for the sins of the entire world. Does that mean everyone is forgiven? No. People have to take some kind of action in order to be forgiven. They are just not automatically forgiven. A person has to yield to God. And it is not a one time yielding to the Lord, either.

In other words God used his only begotten Son to make a way for sinful man to be reconciled and it would be done by not imputing any sin or trespass unto them.

It may be hard for some to understand and comprehend but all sin and every trespass has been imputed to the body of Christ on the cross and has been crucified, even the child molester's, as wicked as that is. He can be reconciled by faith to God through His Son because all his sin has already been judged and condemned in the flesh of Jesus Christ. He can be free and completely justified by grace through trusting in the cross of Christ. God will deal with his sin issue of the flesh and it will take plenty of mercy and grace to do it. God is faithful and will not forsake any who have trusted in His Son for the forgiveness and remission of all sin.

There are those in Matthew 7 who the Lord says for them to depart from them. This is both the Antinomian and the Works Salvationist. Jesus says they worked in iniquity. Meaning, the Antinomian ignored all the warnings in the Bible about sin and thought they were forgiven of it (Yet Jesus said to depart from him because they worked sin or iniquity). The Works Salvationist is cast away before him because they said they had done many wonderful works but he says he did not know them. Yet, the Antinomian says we can be out of fellowship (not know him) and still be saved.

 

[Radius]

No, it is not pointless. I said what I did because I wanted to show you that there are things in this world you don't know. You don't know everyone's heart and life like God does. Your saying that just because you have not seen people live righteously and not sin means that they don't exist. Yet there are many things you don't see that do exist.




How many times did Adam and Eve mess up before it was considered wrong? Only once. Sin is serious and there is no excuse for it.



Uh, no. Romans 7 is not Paul speaking as a Christian who was struggling with sin. He is speaking as a Jew before he became a Christian. For Paul says in Romans 7 that he was sold under sin and is carnal. Yet, in Romans 8 he says he has been set free from the power of the law of sin and death.



So you don't believe 1 John 1:9 that says,.... if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteoussness? Who is more prideful? The person who holds onto their sin or the person who confesses their sin before God and forsakes it? Did you ever read Luke 18:9-14 recently?



I don't sin (second death sins or those types of sin that lead unto death) as a way of life. Does that mean I am perfect? No.

What about King David, a man after God's own heart who looked LUSTFULLY on a woman bathing. Even sleeping with her while she was married and had her husband killed. Is David not in Heaven? He was an adultery, liar and murderer. AKA a sinner. Like you and I and everyone else. As the Scriptures say, "No one is righteous--not even one."

 

[Joshua_Generation]

You mean OSAS Grace that cannot be found in the Bible. For here is a...

Long List of Verses Refuting OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved):
(Which indeed shows that Salvation is Conditional):

• Matthew 7:21-23 - Jesus only “knows” those who do Father God’s will; all others are practicing lawlessness.

• Matthew 10:33 - Whoever denies Jesus before men He will also deny before His Father in heaven.

• Matthew 12:31-32 - Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven. This means verbally cursing or speaking bad about the Holy Spirit.

• Matthew 13:18-23 - 2 people types (no root, unfruitful) come to eternal life, and then return to the lost state.

• Matthew 18:21-35, Mark 11:25-26 - Forgive men’s sins against you, or God won’t forgive your sins against Him.

• Matthew 25:44-46 - Those who do not help even one needy soul will go into everlasting punishment.

• Mark 8:35-36 - Whoever desires to save his (old) life, or gain the whole world, will lose his soul.

• Mark 9:43-48 - Get rid of whatever causes you to sin; it will cause you to be cast into hell fire.

• Mark 13:13 - But he who endures with his faith to the end (of his life) shall be saved eternally (Also see Matthew 10:22, Matthew 24:13, Colossians 1:22-23, 1 Timothy 4:16, Hebrews 10:35-39, Revelation 2:10)

• Luke 9:23-25 - Whoever does not deny himself for Jesus’ sake will be destroyed (eternal death).

• Luke 14:26-33 - Jesus warns prospective believers how difficult and costly it is to be His disciple… will they have enough to finish this life of placing Him above all else, bearing their crosses, etc.?

• Luke 18:9-14 - Jesus taught that the man who was more justified was the one who humbled himself and cried out to God for mercy before God vs. the man who did not do so.

• John 3:19, 20 - An important point about "The Condemnation" is that those who loved darkness hate the Light because they loved the pleasure of their own evil deeds, unless of course their deeds should be reproved (that is).

• John 12:25 - He who loves his life in this world will lose it (eternal life) later.

• John 15:1-6 - Christians who do not bear fruit (are not abiding in Jesus) are thrown into the fire.

• John 17:3 - Eternal life is actually “knowing” Father God and Jesus Christ. Do you really know them?

• Romans 1:29-32 - Anyone practicing such sins is deserving of death due to God’s wrath on unrighteousness.

• Romans 2:5-11 - Wrath is coming to those who are unrighteously self-seeking and do not obey the truth.

• Rom 6:15-23 - Be a slave of God and to righteousness for holiness, resulting in holiness and eternal life.

• Romans 8:1-8 - Anyone who is carnally-minded (is living according to the flesh) will die spiritually.

• Romans 8:12-13 - We are not debtors to the flesh; if we live according to the flesh, we will die.

• Romans 11:20-22 - Fear unbelief, that if you do not continue to have faith, you will be cut off like the OT Jews.

• 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - Anyone practicing such sins is unrighteous, and will not inherit the kingdom of God.

• 1 Corinthians 15:2 - You are saved, if you hold fast to that word (the gospel) … unless you believed in vain.

• 2 Corinthians 7:10 - Godly sorrow over sin leads Christians to repent, which leads to salvation.

• 2 Corinthians 13:5 - Examine and test yourself to see if you are in the faith, unless you are disqualified.

• Galatians 5:1-4 - Christians are warned: those who later have attempted to be justified by law, … have been estranged from Christ and have fallen from grace.

• Galatians 5:19-21 - Anyone practicing such sins (the works of the flesh) will not inherit the kingdom of God.

• Galatians 5:24 - Those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

• Galatians 6:7-8 - Don't be deceived: sowing to the flesh reaps corruption, sowing to the Spirit reaps eternal life.

• Ephesians 5:3-6 - Believers practicing such sins will not inherit God’s kingdom, but will incur the wrath of God.

• Ephesians 5:25-27 - Jesus gave Himself for a glorious Church which will be sanctified, holy, without blemish.

• Philippians 2:12-16 - Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, holding fast the word of life …
  … so that: (1) you may become blameless, and (2) Paul did not labor in vain concerning you.

• Philippians 3:7-14 - Paul presses on to attaining the goal of gaining Christ, knowing Him, and being found in Him.

• Colossians 1:21-29 - Jesus’ desires (and Paul labors to warn and teach) to present “holy and blameless” and “perfect in Christ Jesus” those who continue in faith, not moved away from the hope of the gospel.

• Colossians 3:5-6 - Believers practicing such sins beware: the wrath of God will come upon sons of disobedience.

• 1 Timothy 4:1 - Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith.

• 1 Timothy 5:11-15 - Some younger widows are condemned; they cast off their first faith and turned after Satan.

• 1 Timothy 6:3-4 - Paul says that if any man teaches contrary to the words of Jesus and the doctrine of Christ is proud knowing nothing.

• 1 Timothy 6:9-14 - Greed and love of money drowns men in destruction and perdition; Instead, pursue godliness and lay hold on eternal life (and keep this command without blame).

• 1 Timothy 6:17-19 - Commands for the rich (yes, Christians) to follow, so they may lay hold on eternal life.

• Titus 1:1-3 - Faith and knowledge of the truth lead to godliness, in the hope of eternal life.

• Hebrews 2:1-4 - Warning about drifting away: how shall we escape, if we drift and neglect so great a salvation?

• Hebrews 3:6 - We belong to Christ, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.

• Hebrews 3:12-15 - Beware of an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God, being hardened through the deceitfulness of sin, for we are only partakers of Christ if we hold steadfast to the end.

• Hebrews 3:17-19 - The OT Jews who sinned (did not obey) could not enter into God’s rest (the Promised Land).

• Hebrews 4:1 - Let us fear lest any of us come short of entering God’s rest (God’s promise of salvation).

• Hebrews 4:11 - Be diligent to enter into that rest, lest anyone fall according to the OT example of disobedience.

• Hebrews 6:4-8 - Those enlightened and partakers of the Holy Spirit who fall away will be rejected and burned.

• Hebrews 10:26-27 - If we sin willfully after receiving knowledge of the truth, expect God’s fiery judgment.

• Hebrews 10:29-31 - The Lord will judge His people. “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay”, says the Lord.

• Hebrews 10:35-39 - Endure in the faith, and do not be like those who draw back to perdition.

• Hebrews 12:14-15 - Pursue holiness (w/o which no one will see the Lord) lest anyone falls short of God’s grace.

• Hebrews 12:15-17 - Many believers become defiled, and finding no place for repentance, are rejected.

• James 1:12-16 - Love the Lord, endure temptation to sin; do not be deceived, sin results in spiritual death.

• 1 Peter 1:8-9 - Believing, you will receive the end of your (enduring) faith—the salvation of your souls.

• 2 Peter 1:10-11 - Be diligent to make your call & election sure, so you won’t stumble, but gain the kingdom.

• 2 Peter 2:1, 14 - The false prophets (i.e. believers) are those who have eyes full of adultery and cannot cease from sin.

• 2 Peter 2:20-22 - If Christians are overcome by worldly sins, they are worse off than they were before knowing the way of righteousness, they turned from the holy commandment delivered to them.

• 1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, God will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

• 1 John 2:3-5 - We are sure that we “know” God and are “in” Him, if we keep His commandments.

• 1 John 2:24-25 - If God’s word does not abide in us, the Father and the Son will not abide in us, nor we in Them, and we will not receive the promised eternal life.

• 1 John 3:15 - If you hate your brother, you’re like a murderer who has no eternal life abiding in him.

• Jude 1:4 NIV - There are those false believers who turn the grace of our God into a license for immorality

• Jude 1:20-21 - 3 things for Christians to do, while looking for God’s mercy unto eternal life.

• Revelation 2:10 - Be faithful until death and Jesus will give you the crown of (eternal) life (Also see Mark 13:13above).

• Revelation 2:11 - He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death (eternal death).

• Revelation 3:5 - He who overcomes will not have his name blotted out from the Book of Life.

• Revelation 14:9-11 - Those that worship the Beast and take his mark drink of the wine of the Wrath of God and will be thrown in the Lake of Fire.

• Revelation 21:8 - Anyone practicing such sins will go into the lake of fire, which is the second death.

• Revelation 21:27 - Anyone practicing such sins is not in the Book of Life, and will not enter the New Jerusalem.

• Revelation 22:14 - Anyone who does not do God’s commandments does not have the right to the tree of life.

• Revelation 22:15 - Anyone practicing such sins will be outside the gates of the New Jerusalem.

• Revelation 22:18 - If any man takes away from the prophecy of the book (i.e. the Scriptures), God will take away their name out of the Book of Life.

Source Used:
Your handy-dandy long list of verses against OSAS - BaptistBoard.com

You still have no concept or grandstanding of Grace

 

[Jason0047]

Jason, again you missed the point. A truly born again person has a new nature and will not want to habitually sin.
Perhaps you keep missing the point because...?

The problem is OSAS and it's beliefs itself is not consistent with what you are saying here. On one side, OSAS proponents will say they are for God's goodness and holiness and that a believer will not habitually sin, but on the other side of OSAS they teach that a believer can sin and still be saved, a believer cannot die spiritually, future sin is forgiven them, they can be out of fellowship with God and still be saved, and that no believer can obey all of God's Commands or stop sinning. All of which runs contrary to Scripture.

 

[Jason0047]

You still have no concept or grandstanding of Grace

You are the second person who has made a generalized statement to the list of verses above. Instead of making a generalized comment that does not mean anything, try proving your case by explaining the context of the verses above. But I know you can't do that, though. For the verses and their context does not truly support your belief.

 

[Joshua_Generation]

You are the second person who has made a generalized statement to the list of verses above. Instead of making a generalized comment that does not mean anything, try proving your case by explaining the context of the verses above. But I know you can't do that, though. For the verses and their context does not truly support your belief.

This is sad and tired old argument Jason, you espouse works based salvation and believe that it is your works that save you and keep you in God's grace. Several others have been baited to debate you and I am not.

If you really understood grace, you would not need a long list of refuting scriptures.

 

[forsha]

Where in Romans 1 does it say it is talking about a born again believer? Anyways, we learn in Romans 1 that the Wrath of God abides on the unbeliever because of their unrighteousnesness (or sin). For not only does unrepentant sin destroy the unbeliever but unrepentant sin also destroys the believer, too (See Galatians 5).

Paul was not talking about the natural man, void of the Spirit because the natural man will not, and indeed, can not discern spiritual things(1 Cor 2:14). Verse 21, Because that, when they "knew God", they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. The natural man does not know God because God is Spirit and the natural man can not understand spiritual things. I think that it is a stumbling block for a lot of children of God in not recognizing how bad they are by nature. When we are born again, we do not get rid of our fleshly nature which causes us to sin at times, and lose our relationship with God, not our eternal salvation, until we repent. Look what happened to David, a man after God's own heart. He committed adultery, lying, and murder, but after God took the life of their baby, he repented. I think that it is a travesty for a child of God not to understand how sinful their fleshly nature is, and when they do not understand, it becomes all about pride.

 

[Jason0047]

What about King David, a man after God's own heart who looked LUSTFULLY on a woman bathing. Even sleeping with her while she was married and had her husband killed. Is David not in Heaven? He was an adultery, liar and murderer. AKA a sinner. Like you and I and everyone else. As the Scriptures say, "No one is righteous--not even one."

You act like I am unaware that such a thing is in the Bible. Every Christian who has studied the Bible knows about this story, my friend. Anyways, in David's story of him committing adultery and murder, he was shown the error of his ways by Nathan. David then repented of these sins of which we can see in Psalm 51. David did not continue to hold onto his sin and ignore Nathan and refuse to repent of his sins. David did not continue to commit adultery and murder as a way of life. David stumbled in his walk with God. David did not habitully sin and do evil as a way of life and remain right with God.

 

[Jason0047]

This is sad and tired old argument Jason, you espouse works based salvation and believe that it is your works that save you and keep you in God's grace. Several others have been baited to debate you and I am not.

If you really understood grace, you would not need a long list of refuting scriptures.

First, as I expected. You are not going to try and explain those verses because you honestly can't do so.

Second, you are making blind generalizations about what I believe when you saying that I hold to Works Salvationism, when I am in no way in support of such a belief. I have argued with Works Salvationists before. So you would be wrong.

 

[ember]

The problem is OSAS and it's beliefs itself is not consistent with what you are saying here. On one side, OSAS proponents will say they are for God's goodness and holiness and that a believer will not habitually sin, but on the other side of OSAS they teach that a believer can sin and still be saved, a believer cannot die spiritually, future sin is forgiven them, they can be out of fellowship with God and still be saved, and that no believer can obey all of God's Commands or stop sinning. All of which runs contrary to Scripture.

No, the problem is YOU hiding behind OSAS and telling US that is our doctrine.

My doctrine is saved by grace and God is keeping me that way. I repent of sin, I live IN grace through Christ and I know my sins are forgiven.

I do believe one can turn from God but that presents a whole other discussion.

Stop hiding behind OSAS because I don't believe people are discussing that. You brought that up because it is the standard to which all who believe as you do rally.

 

[crossnote]

The problem is OSAS and it's beliefs itself is not consistent with what you are saying here. On one side, OSAS proponents will say they are for God's goodness and holiness and that a believer will not habitually sin, but on the other side of OSAS they teach that a believer can sin and still be saved, a believer cannot die spiritually, future sin is forgiven them, they can be out of fellowship with God and still be saved, and that no believer can obey all of God's Commands or stop sinning. All of which runs contrary to Scrdipture.

Ok, since you persist, so will I...show me one Christian who obeys all of God's commands , who does not sin. Do you??

 

[ember]

You act like I am unaware that such a thing is in the Bible. Every Christian who has studied the Bible knows about this story, my friend. Anyways, in David's story of him committing adultery and murder, he was shown the error of his ways by Nathan. David then repented of these sins of which we can see in Psalm 51. David did not continue to hold onto his sin and ignore Nathan and refuse to repent of his sins. David did not continue to commit adultery and murder as a way of life. David stumbled in his walk with God. David did not habitully sin and do evil as a way of life and remain right with God.

And neither do people who are saved.

Do you even actually know what saved means? It means it is the work of GOD...not YOU or anyone else!!!

 

[Joshua_Generation]

As I expected. You are not going to try and explain those verses because you honestly can't do so.

No sir, I am not going to cast pearls.

 

[Jason0047]

No, the problem is YOU hiding behind OSAS and telling US that is our doctrine.

My doctrine is saved by grace and God is keeping me that way. I repent of sin, I live IN grace through Christ and I know my sins are forgiven.

I do believe one can turn from God but that presents a whole other discussion.

Stop hiding behind OSAS because I don't believe people are discussing that. You brought that up because it is the standard to which all who believe as you do rally.

No one seems to disagree with the fact that they believe in OSAS here (Except you). Do you not believe in OSAS?

And I am not hiding behind OSAS. I don't believe in it. I think it is a doctrine of pure evil. So I am against OSAS and I will fight against it until my last dying breath because I know it leads a person into the thinking they can sin and still be saved (i.e. a doctrine of immorality, which Jude talks about). For even Peter said that there are false prophets who have eyes full of adultery and who cannot cease from sin (2 Peter 2:1, 14). This is perfectly in line with the OSAS belief by many who say that no is perfect and that everyone sins.

 

[Jason0047]

No sir, I am not going to cast pearls.

May the Lord open your eyes to the truth, my friend. I will be praying for you.

 

[Jason0047]

And neither do people who are saved.

Yet, this statement is not consistent with the commonly held OSAS beliefs, though.

Do you even actually know what saved means? It means it is the work of GOD...not YOU or anyone else!!!

You are not telling me anything I don't alread know.

For who does the "good work" in a believer's life? Is it God? Or is it the believer? Well, Scripture tells us that God (Christ) is the One who does the work within a believer.

Philippians 1:6
Philippians 1:11
Philippians 2:13
Philippians 4:13
1 Corinthians 15:10 KJV
Hebrews 12:1, 2
Hebrews 13:21
Isaiah 26:12
1 John 4:12
Galatians 5:22, 23, 24 (cf. Matthew 7:16, 18, Matthew 19:17)
John 15:5
Ezekiel 36:26, 27

For that is why the 24 elders cast their crowns down before Jesus (Revelation 4:10). For the crowns they received for their good work was all the result of Christ working in them.

Yeah, but doesn't a believer do the work, too? Now, yes, it is true; A believer is created unto Christ Jesus for good works (Ephesians 2:10); And a believer is indeed held accountable by their "good works" here upon this Earth at a Judgment. But we must also realize that true believers are not ultimately doing these "good works" alone or of their own power, though. For in 1 Corinthians 15:10 Paul said that he labored more than all of his brethren, yet he said it was not him that labored but it was the grace of God that was within him. So true believer's are just choosing to allow God's "good work" to flow within them or not.

Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith. He saves us in Justification, Sanctification, and in Glorification.

But that does not mean we did not yield or surrender to God, though. Glorification cannot happen unless you surrender to the Lord.