Hi Deliver, no problem at all. An old freind of mine (who was here before) but had his account deleted was saying at the time that he presently believed that the "seven eyes" or "seven Spirits" were the angels. Now we didnt get into why he believed that the thread did head off topic a bit, however I would be more then willing to look at this more closely, but its just not panning out for me to see it that way, but if someone else did, I would that they would feel free to show it by using the scripture to do so.
I think we are on the same page I tend to agree with Joshua_Generation on this one (and yourself) if you are seeing it similarly.
I would love for you to show me from scripture how the seven stars in Jesus hand are men so I too might say, "ofcourse"
Legions being many angels (as the stars) verses seven angels (stars) in particular.
Its logical that they would all be different from one another given the stars themselves differ in glory one from the other, but are still of the same.
Yeah I believe the seven stars are seven angels.
I am of the belief the seven Spirits of God are not the same as the seven stars. That they are speaking of something different (as is shown in the seven horns/eyes) sent out by Christ as are shown in the pictures of the same where we see him as the Stone/ seven eyes ...the Branch/ seven spirits...the Lamb (in whom was the fulness of the Godhead bodily) and whose fulness (seven Spirits of God) we have received, which is as one and the same Spirit which divideth in a several manner to us all. As breif as I can put this.
And its really not yours to recconcile for me, I was stating how an old freind of mine saw this verses how I did, and if any believed the same (as him) and would seek to convince me of it to show their own workmanship in the scripture (without adding into it) and show me how they put it together I am all ears.
Thats all.
The scripture must be used for my consideration though. I often take posts and reduce them on my end by deleting every single thing added to the scripture and there is often not much left over whenever I do that. That was an eye opener to me when I started doing that with peoples posts (who were teaching) there was alot of their own words (and reasonings) but none of his (and reasoning from out the same).
There would be (at the least) one dangling off the end of a paragraph or something like that.
They are the seven stars in his right hand (summed up)
That is where I am looking at and asking about (and doing so as they are contrasted to the seven Spirits of God) in the picture.
As the scriptures are laid out (accordingly) is exactly what I am agreeing with.
Im looking for a Spirit filled teacher who can show something here without twisting the scriptures all over the place, but can manage to pull off (with some skill) to show me the truth of the matter (if they know)
"Settle it" for me in otherwords. If possible.
I cant believe what I never heard of, where in scripture is this stuff?
Or are you talking about something that is not in the scripture?
The difference between the seven stars/ angels and the seven Spirits per the thread topic and someone convincing me they are either the same or different, but asking for their own arguments.
I do that to see who has a little wisdon and skill in how they put together scripture according to the pattern I am looking at.
I am interested in the topic thats why I am posting here but I wasnt interested in talking to a troll about it, that sort of ruined it.
I dont wish to wrangle I just desired to see how others consider it according to the scriptures, how they reason and handle the scriptures concerning the same, and so I am really just reaching out for someone with who I feel has enough of the Holy Ghost to work it out correctly.
That bout sums it up, no arguments, lets just see what everyone has that I might examine it and be certain according to the scriptures.
I was just tossing this out there is all.
Thank you! God bless you
Ah ok, the reason I was asking so many questions was just to get an understanding of how much Revelation you have studied, and your understanding/ belief of things.
And why I asked about the Church Ages is because in my belief they are linked to why I believe the seven angels are men.
It's quite a study to get into, and I can show you scriptures... But I agree about the debating thing, I'm not interested in that either, especially when it is about something like this and everyone has their opinions/beliefs.
In Revelation, angels are mentioned a lot, and some are men and some are heavenly beings/angels. There is commentary and discussions about that too, with the Greek meaning of the word angel... it is something you have to look at closely to determine which is which.
For example, the angel that was showing John things was a man,
Revelation 1: 1
1The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Is the same one that John tried to worship in
Revelation 19:10
And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy
(that verse is speaking of prophets. It is not to worship the man because of his ministry, he is of the brethren, just a man who has the spirit of prophecy.)
I'm not sure if you believe this already or if you don't exactly believe that when the Bible mentions angels, some angels are men, that's why I started with that.
Then
Revelation 1:20
The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
(this is the seven church ages I mentioned before. Some Christians believe it is only seven churches in Asia back in that time, and nothing else.
But if you look closely at the sayings to the churches in Revelation, and look at the church history over the years since Paul til even now, you will see It has double meaning. Namely, it is speaking of generations of Christians throughout history to the end.)
So Revelation 2:1
Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;
(again, that angel means messenger - but it is a man. And he is the very first messenger to the Gentiles... Which we know is Paul.
If you look at the message to the Ephesians, it is talking about the first Christians. They left their first love (vs. 4) but they hate the Nicolaitain spirit (which broken down means "to conquer the laity" and is talking about taking the power from the people and putting men over them, like The Catholic Church does, and it was starting way back there.)
On through each message to the churches, if you study closely (and you can also ask others or google) you can see the approximate years of each church age. I think it is something that a lot of Christians believe/preach on.
And each age is talking about what happened to the true believers during that time, and how they overcame.
Also, each age had an angel messenger - a man - who was a prophet and brought out a ministry which led people back to the truth when a lot of errors were popping up, and confusion was happening, and even martyrdom etc)
Altogether, there are seven messengers / angels and these are the ones we were talking about originally. They had very significant ministries/teachings of the Holy Spirit to bring to Christians.