So if you are not under the Law, does that mean you are in lawelessness?

[Bowhunter2394]

Very few on here have the PEACEABLE fruits of Righteousness, for alot , its about their 'works of righteousness ' + they claim Christ,----------> God will either let you go on in that error, which leads to 'death', or He will Pull you aside and Chastise you and bring you back to the Foot of the Cross, and bring you back to the Simple Gospel, Christ Crucified, and what He did for you.... if the Conversion Was Genuine, this will happen.. indeed!

 

[atwhatcost]

It means that I am not Jewish, or Semitic, or Hebrew, or Palestinian, Isrealie, an Isrealite or a Nazarite! I hope I got it all grouped together and not leaving anyone out.

​You forgot the Irish. lol

 

[BradC]

Let's make sure that we cover the Lord Jesus Christ as a person born of flesh and the kind of chastisement he faced on the cross from the Father.

Isaiah 53

2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

The chastisement he received from the Father was for our peace, through the blood of the cross (Col 1:20), for the LORD had laid upon him the iniquity of us all. He born our sins on his body and became sin (Heb 9:28, 2 Cor 5:21), so the Father was pleased to bruise the Son (Is 53:10) and chasten him for our sin all the way through death. He became our scapegoat, our substitution and atonement for the wages of our sin through his own death. He was chastened that we could have peace with God through him. He did all this never being acquainted with sin or knowing sin personally in his own body, though he was tempted in all points (Heb 4:15). Christ was chastened not for any sin on his part but for ours, and became the propitiation (mercy seat) for our sin and the sin of the whole world (1 John 2:2).

 

[Bowhunter2394]

One can only UNDERSTAND Chastisment of the LORD, if they have Experienced His Chastising Hand, and Yes as a very young Christian, I did, but it brought me back to Him and what He had done for me... lolz.. not about what I could do for God and all the great things I was doing for Him, He brought me back to the Tree, and Christ Crucified, the preaching of that, I have no theological degree, surely dont boast my 'scholarly knowledge'.. Just a Simple man saved By His Grace who has also been thru His chastisement, It only TOOK ONCE.. and I know today! where the Error was Indeed... Its about God, His salvation, what He has done for you! apart from any good or 'righteouness' ye may be able or think ye can work up! Christ Crucified, and Him Preached, the Peaceable Fruit of Righteousness!

 

[atwhatcost]

Some on this site are lost and have been given over to every perversion of thought and deed. We hope it is not many, I hope that those who endlessly keep saying they are free from truly having to repent or be obedient to Christ etc are only suffering from bad teachers and are not really breaking the laws of God without regard, pounding the nails in their own coffins.

So many lost sheep... Everywhere...

So which is Jason? Given over a lost sheep? It can't be both ways, and we don't know which way it will become until God makes final judgement. Because of that, don't we rather have to assume "lost sheep" until otherwise notified?

 

[atwhatcost]

Yet, nowhere do we see any of the apostles living a life of sin and or with the thinking they could get away with a particular sin all while being saved. Nowhere did they teach or live that you could sin and still be saved. A true faith is always as being defined as one living righteously and not in them being a slave to sin or their old ways. In other words, what you teach is foreign and non existent to Scripture. Even Galatians and Ephesians refutes your belief (See Galatians 5 and Ephesians 5). Those who commit certain types of sins will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

​So you think Paul's thorn in his side came from a cactus? If not, then of course he knew he still sinned. That's what frustrated him, but it's also what brought him in closer to Christ.

 

[atwhatcost]

There is no book of Jason. That's a false accusation. I never created a book that adds to Scripture. I am quoting Scripture or God's Word. If you have a problem with anything I said in God's Word, then surely you would be able to respond using Scripture, right? Do you want to talk Bible or are you just interested in slinging mud?

Can you answer the question using your Bible?

Are Christians lawless because they are not under the Law?

What is your Biblical response to that type of question?

Can you answer such a question using the Bible?

Agreed. Your book doesn't add to scripture. It subtracts quite a lot though.

You believe Thou shalt not Kill. You ignore saying your brother is a fool is killing. That's subtracting.

 

[atwhatcost]

You look at verbs instead of just thinking about it logically (according to God's goodness) and by looking at the context. Again, there is no Biblical example or real world example where someone confessing their sin is truly sorry if they are doing evil while confessing of it. What you propose doesn't make any sense.

Wash it okay, if I just change a verb here and there too? Same deal. Words mean something, even down to tense use in a verb. Stop playing games to divide in your own personal brand of whatever. (BTW I changed that first verb. It should be "Is," not "Wash." Thus explaining while verbs matter.)

 

[atwhatcost]

It is painfully obvious to most in here that you do not believe the bible, but rather your own version of the bible found under the banner of (salvation lite)....as a matter of fact, maybe you should just chunk the bible and write your own version......

And you think he hasn't?

He has. You're not nuts.

 

[atwhatcost]

How do you know the good guys from the bad guys when you turn on the news or watch a movie? Why do you think God will allow His people to be rewarded with the goodness of Heaven for evil and sin they have done here? How is that fair to the unbeleiver who sins and lives a good life? Did not Jesus have a problem with the Pharisees because they lived a hypocritical existence?

You dare to talk about fairness while ignoring Jesus' thoroughness on the Don't kill thing? Bold. Very bold, but without merit. You again ignore that YOU sin by laying it on everyone else's feet. Sorry, I may be dumb, but I'm not that dumb.

Really, didn't Jesus have problems with the Pharisees, Pharisee? You honestly believe you aren't one? They did the exact thing you do over and over again. They knew they couldn't keep the Sabbath as God wanted it done, so they invented their own rules. Instead of don't draw water on the Sabbath, they went for don't use a rope to draw water. They tied girdles together.

Instead of keeping the part where they weren't supposed to walk far on the Sabbath, they took extra coats with them, to plunk down on the road at defined intervals, so they could say, "I am home, because I'm close to where I lay my coat."

Instead of going with this:
Matt. 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said to them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
22 but I say unto you, that every one who is angry with his brother shall be in danger of the judgment; and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council; and whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of the hell of fire.
23 If therefore thou art offering thy gift at the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath aught against thee,
24 leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way, first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, while thou art with him in the way; lest haply the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
26 Verily I say unto thee, thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou have paid the last farthing.
You go with "I don't murder."

What in the world is the difference between you and a Pharisee? And, given Jesus had serious problems with Pharisees, don't you think it's high time to get over your Phariseeism? It's not us. It's YOU!

Tell me there is absolutely no anger, no adversity between you and anyone on here who disagrees with you. If you dare tell me that, I'm right back to laughing and saying, "Yeah, and I've never even thought that one of my brothers is a fool."

Let us lie together. (Lie as in falsehoods.) Because, I'm absolutely not buying you are now perfect. No one else is. And, if you'd really buy those words from the Bible you plunk down, neither do you.

Sure, Jesus frees us from sin. I'm free from the need of great money too. That's not the same thing as still having the desire to hoard as much as I can. We're steeped in sin. It takes God's effort and us going along with it, to get to the point of understanding an iota of how much sin we're steeped in. It's an ocean. Somehow you got it in your mind yours is only a puddle. Get over it or you drown in it. You NEED the lifesaver. The real Lifesaver -- Jesus -- not you. Stop being a Pharisee!

 

[gb9]

I've heard it said like this: many people think that they were carrying about a 95% average, and when they came to Christ he bumped them up to 100%. they ignore that we were DEAD in our trespasses and sins. dead things cannot come to life, in the sprit i'm referring to. but Christ gave us life in the sprit. if that could just sink in to people, a few on here in particular, they would shut up bragging about themselves.

 

[sltaylor]

Agreed. Your book doesn't add to scripture. It subtracts quite a lot though.

You believe Thou shalt not Kill. You ignore saying your brother is a fool is killing. That's subtracting.

Yes you can answer such a question using the bible.
Are Christians lawless because the are not under the law?

Answer: Romans 8:2-"because through Christ Jesus*the 'law' of the Spirit of life*set me free*from the 'law' of sin*and death."

Which law do you think was defeated on the cross, God's law or the law of sin that was hostile to God?

We are not under law means, we are not to be led by what the body tells us to do. We are under Grace means that we are chosen to be saved from our Earthly nature that we could overcome the law of sin and death.

The phrase "sin is lawlessness" means that the law of sin and death is the complete opposite of the law of the spirit life.

You you are looking at this law like it's a written law he's talking about.

This 'law' is something that Governs the flesh, just like a law to explain the heavens and how they act floating through space, the law of sin and death governs the body of flesh as we travel through this life. It's just something that comes with the territory. The spirit needs a body. You put the spirit in a body, this law is the baggage that body is controlled by.

Put to to death the baggage the body is controlled by because we are not under sin or its effect on the body, we can overcome it, by grace we were saved. That's what the entire chapter is about.

 

[Jason0047]

So which is Jason? Given over a lost sheep? It can't be both ways, and we don't know which way it will become until God makes final judgement. Because of that, don't we rather have to assume "lost sheep" until otherwise notified?

You are quoting Where's Enoch and not me.

 

[Jason0047]

You dare to talk about fairness while ignoring Jesus' thoroughness on the Don't kill thing? Bold. Very bold, but without merit. You again ignore that YOU sin by laying it on everyone else's feet. Sorry, I may be dumb, but I'm not that dumb.

Really, didn't Jesus have problems with the Pharisees, Pharisee? You honestly believe you aren't one? They did the exact thing you do over and over again. They knew they couldn't keep the Sabbath as God wanted it done, so they invented their own rules. Instead of don't draw water on the Sabbath, they went for don't use a rope to draw water. They tied girdles together.

Instead of keeping the part where they weren't supposed to walk far on the Sabbath, they took extra coats with them, to plunk down on the road at defined intervals, so they could say, "I am home, because I'm close to where I lay my coat."

Instead of going with this:
Matt. 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said to them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
22 but I say unto you, that every one who is angry with his brother shall be in danger of the judgment; and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council; and whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of the hell of fire.
23 If therefore thou art offering thy gift at the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath aught against thee,
24 leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way, first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, while thou art with him in the way; lest haply the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
26 Verily I say unto thee, thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou have paid the last farthing.
You go with "I don't murder."

What in the world is the difference between you and a Pharisee? And, given Jesus had serious problems with Pharisees, don't you think it's high time to get over your Phariseeism? It's not us. It's YOU!

Tell me there is absolutely no anger, no adversity between you and anyone on here who disagrees with you. If you dare tell me that, I'm right back to laughing and saying, "Yeah, and I've never even thought that one of my brothers is a fool."

Let us lie together. (Lie as in falsehoods.) Because, I'm absolutely not buying you are now perfect. No one else is. And, if you'd really buy those words from the Bible you plunk down, neither do you.

Sure, Jesus frees us from sin. I'm free from the need of great money too. That's not the same thing as still having the desire to hoard as much as I can. We're steeped in sin. It takes God's effort and us going along with it, to get to the point of understanding an iota of how much sin we're steeped in. It's an ocean. Somehow you got it in your mind yours is only a puddle. Get over it or you drown in it. You NEED the lifesaver. The real Lifesaver -- Jesus -- not you. Stop being a Pharisee!

Actually, if I were to be a Pharisee, or hypocritical in some way, then it would condemn me before God. But if I believed as you did, then I could be a Pharisee and still be saved. It really would not matter if I lived perfectly or stopped sinning as a way of life. It really would not matter if I did something wrong and then later told others not to do that same wrong because according to your beliefs all future sin is forgiven. In other words, according to this false belief: I can live like the devil and still be saved. But the Bible does not even remotely support such a twisted and evil doctrine, though.

 

[Bowhunter2394]

Actually, if I were to be a Pharisee, or hypocritical in some way, then it would condemn me before God. But if I believed as you did, then I could be a Pharisee and still be saved. It really would not matter if I lived perfectly or stopped sinning as a way of life. It really would not matter if I did something wrong I told others not to do because according to your beliefs all future sin is forgiven. So it does not matter how I live according to Antinomianism. I can live like the devil and still be saved according to a sin and still be saved doctrine. But the Bible does not even remotely support such a twisted and evil doctrine. You know doing evil is wrong. So I do not even have to tell you that doing so is wrong. You will be without excuse before Christ if you continue to promote a sin and still be saved doctrine.

What really Matters Jason is DO YE KNOW HIM? I'm not talking about a head knowledge of Him, Im not talking about being a scholar in the Word of God, NO, DO YE KNOW HIM? thats all that will count in the End.. this, the Living LOGOS, God manifest in the flesh , He that Gave Himself on the Tree.. Jesus the Christ....... for you! thats all that will Matter in the end.. 'do ye know Him'... for MANY AND I MEAN MANY, millions upon millions will stand before Him with their human religious accolades and achievements, their grandiose ferver in the Word, bragging on these things.. yet He never knew them...

The Fear of the LORD is the Beginning of Wisdom Indeed!

 

[Jason0047]

Agreed. Your book doesn't add to scripture. It subtracts quite a lot though.

You believe Thou shalt not Kill. You ignore saying your brother is a fool is killing. That's subtracting.

No, Jesus says, "but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire." Also, John essentially says anyone who hates his brother is in darkness. He also says hate is the equivalent of murder and that no murderer has eternal life abiding within them. Seems pretty clear to me that you cannot hate your brother and have eternal life (Which of course refutes Once Saves Always Saved or a lawless sin and still be saved type doctrine).

 

[Jason0047]

What really Matters Jason is DO YE KNOW HIM? I'm not talking about a head knowledge of Him, Im not talking about being a scholar in the Word of God, NO, DO YE KNOW HIM? thats all that will count in the End.. this, the Living LOGOS, God manifest in the flesh , He that Gave Himself on the Tree.. Jesus the Christ....... for you! thats all that will Matter in the end.. 'do ye know Him'... for MANY AND I MEAN MANY, millions upon millions will stand before Him with their human religious accolades and achievements, their grandiose ferver in the Word, bragging on these things.. yet He never knew them...

The Fear of the LORD is the Beginning of Wisdom Indeed!

And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. (1 John 2:3-6).

 

[Jason0047]

Wash it okay, if I just change a verb here and there too? Same deal. Words mean something, even down to tense use in a verb. Stop playing games to divide in your own personal brand of whatever. (BTW I changed that first verb. It should be "Is," not "Wash." Thus explaining while verbs matter.)

Perfect is in context to being perfect as the Father is perfect. So no. He can't twist the word usage around to ignore the context.

 

[Jason0047]

Lawlessness is NOT SUBMITTING TO THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD ,

Lawlessness IS when you do not submit to the righteousness of God.

Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. (Romans 11:22).

One is cut off is they do not continue in God's goodness. God's goodness is doing what is good and right.

Jesus said, if you love me, keep my commandments. So it goes to reason that if we do not love God, then we won't keep his commandments. Keeping God's Commandments is what true faith is all about.

 

[Jason0047]

Lawlessness is NOT SUBMITTING TO THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD , which is FOUND oustide the Law, Faith in Christ, God manfiest in the flesh, faith in His Work at the tree.. so very simple, if one Is Truly not under the Law , then he/she is GENUINELY saved, In Christ, because they have submitted to the standard God has set up thru His Son, the Gift of Righteousness, which is by Faith in Christ. thats a Gift, you dont earn it, dont 'work ' for it, dont buy it, its a Gift that is Granted Freely.... man is Lawless in the fact that he /she DOES not submit to the Righteousness of God which is by Faith only! the lawless ones, will claim christ yet still attempt to be justified by the Law and follow it, and 'work' for their salvation, that is Error, and the Word calls that the Works of the Flesh, and by the works of the flesh, shall no person be justified before God! Jason your purdy cunning at your wording, continue on wayward son, maybe God will grant you the Knowledge of Him unto repentance.. I sure hope so! He did Saul of Tarsus, wow! He is ABLE!

James said faith without works is dead. Hebrews 11 defines faith as being those who put their faith into action and not merely a belief alone type faith. For the devil's also believe and tremble.