None Good...No Not One!
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J
It's a very subtle lie that could possibly exploit the younger in the faith. It seems this site has attracted a lot of cults. There was onetime nonstop SDAs posting, with links to deceptive websites you had to really dig into to find it was a cult website. (It screams something they feel the need to hide who they are.) But there've been JWs and Armstrongism showing up too, throw in some Hebrew roots cults. These are all heavy on some aspect of legalism, but, ironically, none of the whole law that would be required of anybody keeping the law. I used to call them Jew-lites. They are of non-existent faiths, neither Jewish or Christian. So, there are those. Lastly are trolls and tares, who try to make people doubt their salvation, doubt they are perfect enough, their experience in Christ not real, again, a possible exploitation of newer Christians. Still more irony these trolls here all day a lot of days, impossible they, themselves, are working righteousness in the world around them. It is something peculiar to ChristianChat. But you'll also notice it's the same handful always hammering away at these errors, and many who disagree.
Yeah. The thread that stood out to me was one where a teenager was asking about how to ask a girl to a school dance. Something harmless like a school dance. And that got turned into a huge Biblical debate to the point where the young guy got scared of even approaching her at all again. Everything has to be a debate. I have a red tank top. Must be a sign associated with hell. That's what they would probably tell me. It just never ends.
No, If I am understanding you correctly, 1 Peter 4:1 is not talking about suffering in the flesh as in reference to struggling with sin while confessing it; And neither does it have anything to to do with 1 John 1:9, either. Nowhere in 1 Peter 4:1 even remotely suggests such a thing. Actually, lets look at what the chapter says and see if we can get the real context of 1 Peter 4:1.
1 Peter 4:1-4 KJV
"Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God. For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries: Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:"
Okay, let's break this down.
He that suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin (is based on the context of):
1. As Christ has suffered in the flesh, arm yourselves with the same mind.
2. That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the lust of the flesh of men, but to God's will.
3. In our past life we walked in lusts, and various sins.
4. Wherein they (Unbelievers) think it strange that we do not run in the same excess of riot.
1. Jesus suffered in the flesh and was sinless. We are to have the same mind and suffer as he suffered. So this cannot be talking about how we are suffering in our sin because Jesus never once sinned.
2. Ceasing from sin as mentioned in verse 1 is in view of not living the rest of our time in the lust of the flesh of men, but to the will of God.
3. For the believer ceased in sin is in contrast to their old life whereby they walked in their lusts and various sins.
4. Unbelievers will find it strange that we do not run in the same excess of riot of sin that they do. So committing sin is in contrast to ceasing from sin.
And if that is not good enough for you, then.... lets keep reading.
1 Peter 4:17-19 KJV
"For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator."
Okay, what does this passage say?
1. Judgement begins at the house of God.
2. What is the end to those who obey not the gospel?
3. If the righteous scarcely be saved, then where shall the ungodly and sinner appear?
4. Therefore, let them suffer according to God's will keeping their souls in "well doing."
1. Judgement begins at the house of God. So if 1 Peter 4:1 is in view of suffering as per confessing sin 1 John 1:9, how does the Judgment of the house of God come into play? The short answer is that it doesn't. Those who do evil in God's Kingdom will be removed. For the Scriptures say, "The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity."
2. What is the end of those who obey not the gospel? Here the gospel is tied to the word "obey" and not "believe." Why? Because the gospel includes repentance and or turning from evil or sin. How do we know repentance is involved in the gospel. Well, the first words Jesus said as a part of ministry was... "repent"; And Jesus defines repentance for us. He says the Ninevites will rise up in Judgment against this generation because they repented at the preaching of Jonah. Now, if we were to turn to chapter 3 in the book of Jonah we would see that the Ninevites had turned from their wicked ways as a part of their repentance. So those who do not obey the gospel are those who are not turning completely from their wicked ways. This would be in view of "cease from sin."
3. If the righteous scarcely be saved, then where should the ungodly and sinner appear? It's a question and the entire chapter is in favor of doing that which is good and and it is not in some kind of "sin and still be saved" or in "being a slave to our sin" type belief. For it states that the righteous will scarcely or barely appear. It then makes it sound like it is nearly impossible that any sinner or ungodly person will appear. Meaning, it is saying there will be nobody that is not righteous that will enter God's Kingdom. Again, this is favor to those who "cease from sin" and not those who are still remaining as a sinner or living in an ungodly way. Yes, is it possible for someone to honestly struggle with sin and confess it so as to be forgiven and cleansed of it? Absolutely. But a believer does not sin willingly (even on occasion) with the thinking they can just keep on sinning as if it was some kind of license, though. God will know if you are trying to trick Him. If you honestly want to turn from sin, that is one thing. But if a person just sins all week thinking they can just later confess it like some Catholics do (with a priest)... it is not really going to work out for them all that well.
4. Here is the part of the verse that is the nail in the coffin that makes "cease from sin" mean exactly what it says plainly. Verse 19 talks about how the believer will suffer according to God's will to the keeping of their souls in "well doing." So we keep our souls. Meaning we protect our very souls here (Which is obviously referring to salvation) by doing that which is well or good. This involves suffering according to God's will. It is the ending words in the last verse of this chapter that is saying the same thing as verse 1.
1 Peter 4:1-4 KJV
"Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God. For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries: Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:"
Okay, let's break this down.
He that suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin (is based on the context of):
1. As Christ has suffered in the flesh, arm yourselves with the same mind.
2. That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the lust of the flesh of men, but to God's will.
3. In our past life we walked in lusts, and various sins.
4. Wherein they (Unbelievers) think it strange that we do not run in the same excess of riot.
1. Jesus suffered in the flesh and was sinless. We are to have the same mind and suffer as he suffered. So this cannot be talking about how we are suffering in our sin because Jesus never once sinned.
2. Ceasing from sin as mentioned in verse 1 is in view of not living the rest of our time in the lust of the flesh of men, but to the will of God.
3. For the believer ceased in sin is in contrast to their old life whereby they walked in their lusts and various sins.
4. Unbelievers will find it strange that we do not run in the same excess of riot of sin that they do. So committing sin is in contrast to ceasing from sin.
And if that is not good enough for you, then.... lets keep reading.
1 Peter 4:17-19 KJV
"For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator."
Okay, what does this passage say?
1. Judgement begins at the house of God.
2. What is the end to those who obey not the gospel?
3. If the righteous scarcely be saved, then where shall the ungodly and sinner appear?
4. Therefore, let them suffer according to God's will keeping their souls in "well doing."
1. Judgement begins at the house of God. So if 1 Peter 4:1 is in view of suffering as per confessing sin 1 John 1:9, how does the Judgment of the house of God come into play? The short answer is that it doesn't. Those who do evil in God's Kingdom will be removed. For the Scriptures say, "The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity."
2. What is the end of those who obey not the gospel? Here the gospel is tied to the word "obey" and not "believe." Why? Because the gospel includes repentance and or turning from evil or sin. How do we know repentance is involved in the gospel. Well, the first words Jesus said as a part of ministry was... "repent"; And Jesus defines repentance for us. He says the Ninevites will rise up in Judgment against this generation because they repented at the preaching of Jonah. Now, if we were to turn to chapter 3 in the book of Jonah we would see that the Ninevites had turned from their wicked ways as a part of their repentance. So those who do not obey the gospel are those who are not turning completely from their wicked ways. This would be in view of "cease from sin."
3. If the righteous scarcely be saved, then where should the ungodly and sinner appear? It's a question and the entire chapter is in favor of doing that which is good and and it is not in some kind of "sin and still be saved" or in "being a slave to our sin" type belief. For it states that the righteous will scarcely or barely appear. It then makes it sound like it is nearly impossible that any sinner or ungodly person will appear. Meaning, it is saying there will be nobody that is not righteous that will enter God's Kingdom. Again, this is favor to those who "cease from sin" and not those who are still remaining as a sinner or living in an ungodly way. Yes, is it possible for someone to honestly struggle with sin and confess it so as to be forgiven and cleansed of it? Absolutely. But a believer does not sin willingly (even on occasion) with the thinking they can just keep on sinning as if it was some kind of license, though. God will know if you are trying to trick Him. If you honestly want to turn from sin, that is one thing. But if a person just sins all week thinking they can just later confess it like some Catholics do (with a priest)... it is not really going to work out for them all that well.
4. Here is the part of the verse that is the nail in the coffin that makes "cease from sin" mean exactly what it says plainly. Verse 19 talks about how the believer will suffer according to God's will to the keeping of their souls in "well doing." So we keep our souls. Meaning we protect our very souls here (Which is obviously referring to salvation) by doing that which is well or good. This involves suffering according to God's will. It is the ending words in the last verse of this chapter that is saying the same thing as verse 1.
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J
you thief! You took my emoticon..lol jk.. 
I got it from Vigilant Warrior.
I got it from Vigilant Warrior.
G
No, You started from a false premise.
That verse is not about our struggle with sin. It is about a struggle and not sinning in that struggle or suffering.......the IRS is auditing you, don't murmur,complain,gossip about the IRS.
vs 19 is entrusting our souls to a faithful Creator. Not a faithful CREATURE.
That verse is not about our struggle with sin. It is about a struggle and not sinning in that struggle or suffering.......the IRS is auditing you, don't murmur,complain,gossip about the IRS.
vs 19 is entrusting our souls to a faithful Creator. Not a faithful CREATURE.
On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city,
Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour:
And he became very hungry, and would have eaten:
but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,
And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him,
as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth,
and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
But Peter said, Not so, Lord;
for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
And the voice spake unto him again the second time,
What God hath cleansed,
that call not thou common.
Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour:
And he became very hungry, and would have eaten:
but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,
And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him,
as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth,
and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
But Peter said, Not so, Lord;
for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
And the voice spake unto him again the second time,
What God hath cleansed,
that call not thou common.
What in the world are you talking about? IRS? Nor did I say anything about how it is one's struggle with sin. I said one suffers in the flesh to cease from sin. One suffers in God's will to the keeping of their soul in "well doing." In other words, how would you apply that? How would you apply suffering in God's will to the keeping of your soul in "well doing"? How exactly are you "keeping your soul" by such an action?
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G
Your premise started with what you thought I said. I did not say it was a struggle with sin. I said it was suffering in the flesh And NOT sinning while we are going through the suffering.
The IRS is one example~~ we may be wrongly suffering from a bogus audit. But we need to "arm" ourselves with doctrine in our soul to not sin while we go through the undeserved suffering.
The IRS is a great example, because we could easily feel justified in our complaints,murmuring,gossiping about the IRS. But they are the law of the land and we have to obey their rules even when we KNOW they are wrong.
The IRS is one example~~ we may be wrongly suffering from a bogus audit. But we need to "arm" ourselves with doctrine in our soul to not sin while we go through the undeserved suffering.
The IRS is a great example, because we could easily feel justified in our complaints,murmuring,gossiping about the IRS. But they are the law of the land and we have to obey their rules even when we KNOW they are wrong.