Which laws are and are not valid?

[JaumeJ]

Post datum

I have not been discussing the rudeness of anyone in the forum. You are changing the subject, for what motive, I cannot say. The subject is The privilege for brethren to discuss any topic they wish from the Bible in the Bible Forum; it is as simple as that.

When I have been discussing the rudeness of others, then reply to me on rudeness. God bless all who are in Jesus Christ.

Jaume,

A desire to see people refrain from multiple open threads on the same subject IS NOT a desire to suppress discussion!

It is, in fact, a desire to facilitate discussion. When there are multiple open threads on the same subject, it becomes difficult to follow a conversation. There is a definite movement on the forum to suppress rudeness: not only the rudeness of multiple open posts on ANY subject, but the rudeness of name calling and of sarcasm, and of snide remarks.

This desire is motivated by the desire of many of us to treat each other lovingly in our disagreements so as not to compromise our testimony before onlookers.

I don't question anyone's right to be rude! Many of us are asking All forum members to suppress their desire to be rude in the interest of maintaining our collective and individual testimonies!

 

[MarcR]

Jaume,

I remember that you have mentioned a vision problem.

I AM NOT TRYING TO SUPPRESS DISCUSSION!!!

I, AND MANY OTHERS, ARE TRYING TO REDUCE THE RUDENESS AND HOSTILITY ON THE FORUM

WE DESIRE THIS TO FACILITATE, NOT SUPPRESS, DISCUSSION: AND TO PRESERVE OUR TESTIMONIES!

 

[Daniel411]

I might be a bit late in this conversation, but just wanted to throw in some insight.

I don't think we were ever required in Christ to be able to uphold all the laws. It again does go back to the saying that we are dead to the law but alive in Christ, and in Christ we are made new. We are therefore to recognize and accept our admission in that we will never be perfect in our own, but only through the grace, mercy and love through Christ.

It's once we make this transformation that the process of sanctification begins. We will live out the whole rest of our lives learning and attempting to better live and understand God's word and teach it abroad to those who would hear it. The word of the Lord does not go void. So it is wonderful to learn as much as you possibly can about the laws of Old and New, and that Jesus did not come to take away the law... "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." (Matthew 5:17) But by making them known, now sinners who have not or will not accept Jesus have no excuse for their sins. "If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin." (John 15:22)

Which brings us back to the process of sanctification and repentance. We will continually make mistakes, but we are not to let them overtake us, but to learn and continuing growing in Christ, and to spread the message of His love and truth to everyone everywhere, to proclaim His glory. His mercy, love and grace are more than enough and can cover all of our sins.

 

[JaumeJ]

Suppressing what one believes is redundancy is censorship, but it is good because the individual is having his ownway.

Some insight on vision impaired. They know how to compensate for texts they cannot see via magnifying software, using alt plus or minus to increase ir ti decrease text size. Also being able to maniputlate multiple magnifying gloasses is useful. I use all of these.

You need not increas teh size of the text for me, for compensation has already been made. It only serves to make text illegible. Thank you for considering this. The problem has been overcome by the grace of God Who is always good to us all. God bless you.

Jaume,

I remember that you have mentioned a vision problem.

I AM NOT TRYING TO SUPPRESS DISCUSSION!!!

I, AND MANY OTHERS, ARE TRYING TO REDUCE THE RUDENESS AND HOSTILITY ON THE FORUM

WE DESIRE THIS TO FACILITATE, NOT SUPPRESS, DISCUSSION: AND TO PRESERVE OUR TESTIMONIES!

 

[newlife7]

Matthew4Jesus Ill always stand by what I said. Instead of making a check list in your mind about what to do and not to do obey the words in the book of Hebrews rest from your works just as Christ rested from His. I'm telling you I know what I have been saying to you and if you go back and check my posts the are all backed up in scripture. The only thing we have to do in order to not break the commands is to trust in God to complete His work in us as we believe in Christ. 1 John tells us this is the command that we love one another. See we love cause He first loved us and as we believe in His finished work on the cross we grow more deep in that love. When you love you do not want to kill, steal, commit adultery, or anything else that might hurt your fellow man. Therefore do not think that by trying to memorize and obey 613 commands will make you righteous. Just grow in love and you will realize that you will be obeying all of God's commandments for you. Trust me it is a lot easier this way, but know this that when you do do this, it isn't what makes you righteous, it just means that you are obeying the command of God to love one another. We are only righteous because of what Christ did on the cross.

 

[JaumeJ]

If you would be so kind, you could read a few of my immediate posts. We are living in grace, and if we do sin, we are not condemned for there is no condemjnation in Jesus Christ. Te questio being addressed by me is simple. Once we have received grace, we become children of obedience, Ephesians, no longer children of disobedience. Now though breaking the law no longer has any power over us living i grace, what and how do we obey? I have been repeating that we learn by the example and teaching of our Salvation, Jesus Christ, Who teaches not to teach against the law, not even the least of them. Whoever teaches against the least of the laws will be least in heaven. You see, in heaven will will actually be perfect for God will have completed the work He began in us on His great and glorious day. Please understand all of the law hangs on love, yet the law remains, with love. If you love perfectly, do now concern yourself with anything I have posted, for it does not appy to you, but it certainly applies to me. God bless you and keep you always............

I might be a bit late in this conversation, but just wanted to throw in some insight.

I don't think we were ever required in Christ to be able to uphold all the laws. It again does go back to the saying that we are dead to the law but alive in Christ, and in Christ we are made new. We are therefore to recognize and accept our admission in that we will never be perfect in our own, but only through the grace, mercy and love through Christ.

It's once we make this transformation that the process of sanctification begins. We will live out the whole rest of our lives learning and attempting to better live and understand God's word and teach it abroad to those who would hear it. The word of the Lord does not go void. So it is wonderful to learn as much as you possibly can about the laws of Old and New, and that Jesus did not come to take away the law... "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." (Matthew 5:17) But by making them known, now sinners who have not or will not accept Jesus have no excuse for their sins. "If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin." (John 15:22)

Which brings us back to the process of sanctification and repentance. We will continually make mistakes, but we are not to let them overtake us, but to learn and continuing growing in Christ, and to spread the message of His love and truth to everyone everywhere, to proclaim His glory. His mercy, love and grace are more than enough and can cover all of our sins.

 

[newlife7]

Matthew4Jesus Ill always stand by what I said. Instead of making a check list in your mind about what to do and not to do obey the words in the book of Hebrews rest from your works just as Christ rested from His. I'm telling you I know what I have been saying to you and if you go back and check my posts the are all backed up in scripture. The only thing we have to do in order to not break the commands is to trust in God to complete His work in us as we believe in Christ. 1 John tells us this is the command that we love one another. See we love cause He first loved us and as we believe in His finished work on the cross we grow more deep in that love. When you love you do not want to kill, steal, commit adultery, or anything else that might hurt your fellow man. Therefore do not think that by trying to memorize and obey 613 commands will make you righteous. Just grow in love and you will realize that you will be obeying all of God's commandments for you. Trust me it is a lot easier this way, but know this that when you do do this, it isn't what makes you righteous, it just means that you are obeying the command of God to love one another. We are only righteous because of what Christ did on the cross. And remember that Christians are not under law but under grace.

 

[JaumeJ]

My plea to all brethren is quite simple. Please do not be disobedient. Know what this means. Jesus teaches it clearly.

 

[Elin]

Does anyone see the difference between 'the law of Mozes' and 'the law of God'?

The law of Moses is the law of God, there is no difference. . .you don't know where Moses got the law?

I believe Jezus speaks about 'the law of God'

The ten commandements, the guidelines for our lives.

 

[Elin]

Okay I am starting to get the gist of it here.

So we are not under the law, however, it would be in out nature is new creatures to abstain from Sin.

What I am saying - I admit my total ignorance in asking this - is, how do I find what is and is not a sin? I speak as a Christian no longer under the law. For example, I would of course obey the ten commandments out of my love for God and hate for sin.

Surely this would not be on the basis of feeling because I cannot trust my feelings as I would be easily deceived without the word as my point of reference and guide.

Life in Christ cannot be lived without the indwelling Holy Spirit, who writes Christ's commands (Mt 22:37-40) in our minds and on our hearts, giving us to know what is loving and what is not, just as nature gives a mother to know what is loving and what is not regarding her children, no one has to tell her.

The answer to your question is Christ's commands and the indwelling Holy Spirit.

 

[Elin]

The Law is not made for the righteous, but for sinners. (1 Timothy 1.9 I do not understand what the problem is with people not understanding this verse.

And we are righteous in Christ, not by the law.

 

[Elin]

1. Carefully interrogate the witness — Deut. 13:15 {Start from 576}
2. A witness must not serve as a judge in capital crimes — Deut. 19:17
3. Not to accept testimony from a lone witness — Deut. 19:15
4. Transgressors must not testify — Ex. 23:1
5. Relatives of the litigants must not testify — Deut. 24:16
6. Not to testify falsely — Standard->Ex. 20:14 Yemenite->Ex. 20:13
7. Punish the false witnesses as they tried to punish the defendant — Deut. 19:19
8. Act according to the ruling of the Sanhedrin — Deut. 17:11
9. Not to deviate from the word of the Sanhedrin — Deut. 17:11
10. Not to add to the Torah commandments or their oral explanations — Deut. 13:1
11. Not to diminish from the Torah any commandments, in whole or in part — Deut. 13:1
12. Not to curse your father and mother — Ex. 21:17
13. Not to strike your father and mother — Ex. 21:15
14. Respect your father or mother — Standard->Ex. 20:13 Yemenite->Ex. 20:12
15. Fear your mother or father — Lev. 19:3
16. Not to be a rebellious son — Deut. 21:18
17. Mourn for relatives — Lev. 10:19
18. The High Priest must not defile himself for any relative — Lev. 21:11
19. The High Priest must not enter under the same roof as a corpse — Lev. 21:11
20. A Kohen must not defile himself (by going to funerals or cemeteries) for anyone except relatives — Lev. 21:1
21. Appoint a king from Israel — Deut. 17:15
22. Not to appoint a foreigner — Deut. 17:15
23. The king must not have too many wives — Deut. 17:17
24. The king must not have too many horses — Deut. 17:16
25. The king must not have too much silver and gold — Deut. 17:17
26. Destroy the seven Canaanite nations — Deut. 20:17
27. Not to let any of them remain alive — Deut. 20:16
28. Wipe out the descendants of Amalek — Deut. 25:19
29. Remember what Amalek did to the Jewish people — Deut. 25:17
30. Not to forget Amalek's atrocities and ambush on our journey from Egypt in the desert — Deut. 25:19
31. Not to dwell permanently in Egypt — Deut. 17:16
32. Offer peace terms to the inhabitants of a city while holding siege, and treat them according to the Torah if they accept the terms — Deut. 20:10
33. Not to offer peace to Ammon and Moab while besieging them — Deut. 23:7
34. Not to destroy food trees even during the siege — Deut. 20:19
35. Prepare latrines outside the camps — Deut. 23:13
36. Prepare a shovel for each soldier to dig with — Deut. 23:14
37. Appoint a priest to speak with the soldiers during the war — Deut. 20:2
38. He who has taken a wife, built a new home, or planted a vineyard is given a year to rejoice with his possessions — Deut. 24:5
39. Not to demand from the above any involvement, communal or military — Deut. 24:5
40. Not to panic and retreat during battle — Deut. 20:3
41. Keep the laws of the captive woman — Deut. 21:11
42. Not to sell her into slavery — Deut. 21:14
43. Not to retain her for servitude after having sexual relations with her — Deut. 21:14

Good job, Marc.

 

[Elin]

The response to the OP title is simple enough. Learn the anwer best from Jesus Christ, from His teaching and His Example.
Let us keep it simple.

Nope. . .excluding part of the NT word of God is not to "keep it simple," it is to "keep it incomplete."

Rather, learn it from the words spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers.

If mercy lacks in the law, it is obvious by the actions of Jesus Christ and His teaching that it is not valid. This includes all forms of punishment, for we have not been handed over judgment in this age, no that will come on God's Day, great and glorious.

Those in Jesus Christ are never handed over to judgment/condemnation/punishment, in any age.

Only those outside Jesus Christ will suffer condemnation (Jn 3:18, 36).

Anyone who points fingers at specific sins, and demands castigation in this age
does not yet know how to obey the Law lawfully.

Nor does anyone who does not believe the entire NT word of God.

 

[newlife7]

Matthew4Jesus I haven't been to bed yet so I'm not to sure what I wrote on the last post, but I'm just trying to get you away from the mentality that you have to work for your right standing with God, and instead get you to understand that God didn't even spare His own Son to save you so you can trust His promise that He will complete His work in you before the day of Christ.

 

[Elin]

We are no longer under the schoolmaster when we do the law by nature. Pleae always bear in mind, it is the curse of the law that is destroyed, not the law itself when used lawfully.

Lawful use of the Decalogue is the obedience of saving faith as the means of sanctification/godliness by the Holy Spirit.

The Mosaic (Old, Sinaitic) Covenant is obsolete, the priesthood on which it depended having been
changed to another priesthood, and God's people are under a New Covenant (Lk 22:20) of salvation
by grace through faith, not through law keeping.

 

[Elin]

It is written on our hearts, it's not who's right, or who's wrong. We can't change a bat into a robin, or a owl into a blue jay. Seek and you will find, it's one or the other.
Jesus is the way, let Him be our example.

The words spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers include more than Jesus' example, they also include instruction, exhortation and command which are likewise to be followed.

 

[Elin]

I fully agree, then i think... Jezus kept for instance the sabbath, He's our example so...

Jesus came to die for sin.
That is our example. . .we must die to sin as he died for sin.

 

[newlife7]

Matthew4Jesus Wait until you grasp Hebrews 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. And how everything that tries to tell us otherwise has to be gainsaying.

 

[Elin]

WARNING! Please be advised there is a movment by some to deter the freedom of discussing the law and grace. This movement is a misdirected attempt to help the family in Christ, keeping them from discussing what the detractors have not yet come to be comfortable with.

How can we be children living in grace if we deny obedience? We are told we have become children of obedience, saved from being children of disobedience. If we, then, are children of obedience, and we are not familiear with what to obey and certain wisdom, we must study the entire Word to know what God's will is for us.

WARNING! The words spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers are filled with what is God's will for the New Covenant people of God.

And they do not include the Mosaic regulations and ceremonies.

 

[Lifetrack]

The law of Moses is the law of God, there is no difference. . .you don't know where Moses got the law?

O, there is a big difference, but i apologise for using the wrong words. The law from Mozes was given by God, but the ten commandements He wrote himself on stone, unlike Mozes law, they had to keep the stones inside the ark, not beside. A great difference in value because the ten where not only for the Jews but for all mankind. Those are the commandements Jezus urges us to obey.