Joyce Meyer -- False Teacher

[PeterJens]

Good stuff sister!
The most absurd thing about these attacks is the insistence that Dave and Joyce are WOF teachers.

They started that way, but then left that behind. Even the WOF movement shuns her, because she teaches about suffering for the Lord through persecutions, and that God can and will use illness, sickness, hurt, pain and offense in your life to refine you.

Joshua, it is interesting you saying Joyce was part of WOF and has now left it. You cannot blame people for being sceptical of those who make millions from giving advice, who where openly linked to a heretical group, to maybe question where they are now.

I appreciate your observation about never being ill, but you might not have observed there are some here who hold to this idea. The term christian now includes such broad beliefs, it is not unreasonable for people to express their take on things.

Now if Joyce has left these things behind, and now followers more real life realities, then Amen.

You said your wife was helped greatly by Joyce, can you expand on this without being too personal?

 

[tribesman]

No support at all for Joyce Meyer and her confusing world.

Exposing Joyce Meyer - Christian Blogs - Delivered By Grace

 

[JesusIsAll]

No support at all for Joyce Meyer and her confusing world.

Exposing Joyce Meyer - Christian Blogs - Delivered By Grace

And FYI, folks, your Christ dollars at work, "There's gold in them thar sheep!"

In Plain Sight <-- click​

 

[PeterJens]

Below is a quote from Joyce Meyer. The words speak more than anything else where she is

I’m going to tell you something folks, I didn’t stop sinning until I finally got it through my thick head I wasn’t a sinner anymore. And the religious world thinks that’s heresy and they want to hang you for it. But the Bible says that I’m righteous and I can’t be righteous and be a sinner at the same time … All I was ever taught to say was, ‘I’m a poor, miserable sinner.’ I am not poor, I am not miserable and I am not a sinner. That is a lie from the pit of hell. That is what I was and if I still am then Jesus died in vain. Amen?

 

[PeterJens]

The phrase
"I am not a sinner. That is a lie from the pit of hell"

How could any christian ever say such a thing. The best you can say is the sins you now do are not seen as sins by Gods grace working in you, you have Christ righteousness, but to deny your actual sin is stupid. Now you can walk sinlessly, but that is probably only to be understood when we meet Jesus, but if there is sin in your life, you are a sinner.

It is not a lie from anywhere, it is reality. The hope is empowered by love a changed heart we will not sin anymore, but that is it.

I would never trust any teacher ever who uttered these words, because the Lord they are describing is not Jesus the God of holiness and perfection.

 

[PeterJens]

To those who dismiss people and their words as minor errors, listen to what Jesus says

For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.
Matt 12:37

 

[mwc68]

Here we go with the approval of the child molesters again....when they stop building orphanages so they can rape the children in them, then you can call it charity.

While you're throwing stones, lob some at your protestant preachers and youth pastors that do the same thing. Can you say hypocrite?

 

[Chica]

You're that powerful that you can speak things into being? Forgive me for doubting you Oh Holey One (that isn't type o, that TRIPE you're spouting is so full of holes!).

Time for a Zirkism

Have you ever gone gopher hunting? I used to run backwards faster than I can run forwards. Ohh look...a monkey.

Hey! That's my line! Lol

Sorry I should have said Sirkism not Zirkism.

 

[Willie-T]

Gee, I wonder who was being addressed in 1 Corinthians 6:11?

 

[Danacovert82]

http://christianchat.com/miscellaneous/115654-i-think-im-gonna-have.html

here's a link to me and my end of televangelists. Read it if you want.

 

[PeterJens]

Gee, I wonder who was being addressed in 1 Corinthians 6:11?

And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
1 Cor 6:11

The connection being made here is being miserable, an outcast, not accepted, means sinner, having no sin means being happy accepted and joyful.

The problem is saying I am sinless, is very different from saying I am sanctified. And that is a massive step to saying sinning makes you a sinner is from the pit of hell.

Yes we are accused of slander, of doing the wrong things, but not of sin correctly. In grace we overcome slavery to sin. What this kind of language implies is those who call themselves sinners are deceived by demons, which is simply wrong.
Those who deny the power of Jesus and His love walking in their hearts are denying the power of the gospel and the Holy Spirit who ministers this love to us.

It is too easy to go from the language of victory to arrogance, and humility and meekness is just defeat. This is the language of those who believe in domination, and being assertive and proud. It also leads to perfectionism, when the failures within are too obvious to see.

 

[Willie-T]

And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
1 Cor 6:11

The connection being made here is being miserable, an outcast, not accepted, means sinner, having no sin means being happy accepted and joyful.

The problem is saying I am sinless, is very different from saying I am sanctified. And that is a massive step to saying sinning makes you a sinner is from the pit of hell.

Yes we are accused of slander, of doing the wrong things, but not of sin correctly. In grace we overcome slavery to sin. What this kind of language implies is those who call themselves sinners are deceived by demons, which is simply wrong.
Those who deny the power of Jesus and His love walking in their hearts are denying the power of the gospel and the Holy Spirit who ministers this love to us.

It is too easy to go from the language of victory to arrogance, and humility and meekness is just defeat. This is the language of those who believe in domination, and being assertive and proud. It also leads to perfectionism, when the failures within are too obvious to see.

You know very well no one is saying they are sinless.... least of all, Joyce who consistently gives examples of her falling short, and slipping back into some of her old habits. She probably admits (openly, on camera) to struggling on a regular basis, with her own desires more than any teacher I have ever seen on TV.

 

[Mitspa]

While you're throwing stones, lob some at your protestant preachers and youth pastors that do the same thing. Can you say hypocrite?

Friend in the Christian groups I have been in, this is the ultimate rejection of Christ and the believers I know would never attend or have fellowship with a so-called leader that had sinned so against the Lord and His people... There is no pervert Protestant preacher that I know of personally? But the crimes the RCC have committed against children are unequaled by any group at any time. For you to lift them up as having any place in true godly charity, is offensive.

 

[PeterJens]

You know very well no one is saying they are sinless.... least of all, Joyce who consistently gives examples of her falling short, and slipping back into some of her old habits. She probably admits (openly, on camera) to struggling on a regular basis, with her own desires more than any teacher I have ever seen on TV.

Thank you Willie. I do agree that sometimes people can be quoted word for word, and their intention is different than the exact words spoken without context. My challenge was simply a quote from Joyce appeared to be implying talking about sin and failing is evil. I have heared this in other preaching from the 90's. The question is do these same preachers still hold to this idea and why did they even suggest it in the first place.

Some here have come close to saying the same thing, which is also not a good idea. But I am used to short statements of total condemnation, but I would hope and pray as christian brothers and sisters maybe this would be restrained.

I have struggled with a pastor I know in the UK who preached Latter rain theology in the 90's and still appears to do so today, yet his congregation are unaware of it. Now I did have a spiritual connection with this man before this happened to him, so I now wonder what went wrong. After talking to muslims I am very aware a set phrase often tells you what people are thinking more than the generally used ideas. So I get very wary of people who say biblical ideas are from the enemy, unless I understand their emphasis.

Now I trust the Lord will forgive my caution, but as I have said, there are some real nutcases around into which I would put Creflo Dollar, Kenneth Copeland etc.

Now Joyce may or may not be in this group. I know you express a dislike of dominionism, so I would take it Joyce does not follow things that far.

To give you an idea superficially I like Oprah, until I learnt about her quasi mystical leanings, like Kabbali which is popular among certain celebrities. So if you can share what touched you about her ministry I can see things in a better context.

 

[dcontroversal]

I have met people who have come out of her ministry in St. Louis and they have called her a fraud, fake and a false teacher.....I lump her in with Benny, Joel, Robert Tilton and a few others.........seems Nellie was right...HEY MUST BE THE MONEY!!!!!

 

[Willie-T]

Thank you Willie. I do agree that sometimes people can be quoted word for word, and their intention is different than the exact words spoken without context. My challenge was simply a quote from Joyce appeared to be implying talking about sin and failing is evil. I have heared this in other preaching from the 90's. The question is do these same preachers still hold to this idea and why did they even suggest it in the first place.

Some here have come close to saying the same thing, which is also not a good idea. But I am used to short statements of total condemnation, but I would hope and pray as christian brothers and sisters maybe this would be restrained.

I have struggled with a pastor I know in the UK who preached Latter rain theology in the 90's and still appears to do so today, yet his congregation are unaware of it. Now I did have a spiritual connection with this man before this happened to him, so I now wonder what went wrong. After talking to muslims I am very aware a set phrase often tells you what people are thinking more than the generally used ideas. So I get very wary of people who say biblical ideas are from the enemy, unless I understand their emphasis.

Now I trust the Lord will forgive my caution, but as I have said, there are some real nutcases around into which I would put Creflo Dollar, Kenneth Copeland etc.

Now Joyce may or may not be in this group. I know you express a dislike of dominionism, so I would take it Joyce does not follow things that far.

To give you an idea superficially I like Oprah, until I learnt about her quasi mystical leanings, like Kabbali which is popular among certain celebrities. So if you can share what touched you about her ministry I can see things in a better context.

Very well. It is, basically, that she makes mistakes.... and unlike so many people, admits it.

I have found in my 70 years that one of the biggest stumbling blocks for teachers is that they often reach a point of actually believing they "must" be right, or else they have nothing. Jesus said just the opposite. He said that His strength was actually in our mistakes and failings.

I have found, too, that it seems the more people fear not looking perfect in their theology, the more they work to "expose" others. Maybe they think, "If I can point out other's problems loudly enough, then hopefully, no one will look that closely at me."

 

[kennethcadwell]

And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
1 Cor 6:11

The connection being made here is being miserable, an outcast, not accepted, means sinner, having no sin means being happy accepted and joyful.

The problem is saying I am sinless, is very different from saying I am sanctified. And that is a massive step to saying sinning makes you a sinner is from the pit of hell.

Yes we are accused of slander, of doing the wrong things, but not of sin correctly. In grace we overcome slavery to sin. What this kind of language implies is those who call themselves sinners are deceived by demons, which is simply wrong.
Those who deny the power of Jesus and His love walking in their hearts are denying the power of the gospel and the Holy Spirit who ministers this love to us.

It is too easy to go from the language of victory to arrogance, and humility and meekness is just defeat. This is the language of those who believe in domination, and being assertive and proud. It also leads to perfectionism, when the failures within are too obvious to see.

I agree with all that you have said here, but I think the issue is that people do not fully understand what overcoming one's sins mean. People want to lump all types of sins together in their teachings, and what I mean by that is that they take and say a person who continues to purposely sin day in and day out and those who sin every once in awhile and then repent are one and the same.

Others try to say we will all continue to do that day in day out, everyday sinning the rest of our life.
But anybody can clearly read in the bible that this is not true, as the bible says we put away the lusts of the flesh and learn to have self control by the guidance of the Holy Spirit. If there is no change in a persons life the bible shows they do not have the Holy Spirit in them for the fruits of the Spirit will be evident in their walk.


Nobody is perfect and everybody does mess up from time to time, and it is not proper to automatically just up and put titles as false teachers on anybody just because they might make a mistake here or there. If that be the case then we are all false teachers then because we all fail now and then. It is how you move forward from that failure that shows if you are true or not, and repenting/confessing those sins is a form of that as the person is acknowledging their faults.

Those who don't acknowledge their faults is the one's I would steer away from and not listen to....................

 

[Willie-T]

I agree with all that you have said here, but I think the issue is that people do not fully understand what overcoming one's sins mean. People want to lump all types of sins together in their teachings, and what I mean by that is that they take and say a person who continues to purposely sin day in and day out and those who sin every once in awhile and then repent are one and the same.

Others try to say we will all continue to do that day in day out, everyday sinning the rest of our life.
But anybody can clearly read in the bible that this is not true, as the bible says we put away the lusts of the flesh and learn to have self control by the guidance of the Holy Spirit. If there is no change in a persons life the bible shows they do not have the Holy Spirit in them for the fruits of the Spirit will be evident in their walk.


Nobody is perfect and everybody does mess up from time to time, and it is not proper to automatically just up and put titles as false teachers on anybody just because they might make a mistake here or there. If that be the case then we are all false teachers then because we all fail now and then. It is how you move forward from that failure that shows if you are true or not, and repenting/confessing those sins is a form of that as the person is acknowledging their faults.

Those who don't acknowledge their faults is the one's I would steer away from and not listen to....................

Amen..............................................

 

[mwc68]

Friend in the Christian groups I have been in, this is the ultimate rejection of Christ and the believers I know would never attend or have fellowship with a so-called leader that had sinned so against the Lord and His people... There is no pervert Protestant preacher that I know of personally? But the crimes the RCC have committed against children are unequaled by any group at any time. For you to lift them up as having any place in true godly charity, is offensive.

And I don't know of a priest personally that did these horrible things. To claim the Church did these things is iresponsible and very offensive. Try doing some research on your saintly preachers and their abuse. You will be surprised. But unlike you, i don't think their churches condoned it. There are bad people in the world. I know this is not the place for this, but i couldn't let your idiotic statement go unchallenged

 

[flob]

For the sake of money, for their company, many 'bishops' deliberately transferred around the pedophiles,
so as to have someone occupying the place