How to promote unity while acknowledging doctrinal differences

[atwhatcost]

I just find it ironic. Particularly when Christians bemoan, "Why can't we all just get along?"

Most of the time the discord is based on people pretending that non-essentials are issues of orthodoxy. So, their pet view of ______ (fill in the blank) becomes the litmus test of someone's Christianity.

The Creeds predate the canonization of scripture and even helped the Councils determine which texts were genuinely from God and which were not. They've also been the standard used by the vast majority of Christendom throughout history. Even today, the Creeds are used as "the basics for believers" by all manner of churches from traditional liturgical believers, to evangelical, to reformed.

I don't get where people keep thinking this is about "getting along." It really isn't. It's about knowing enemies from brothers, and treating each accordingly.

 

[PeterJens]

I don't get where people keep thinking this is about "getting along." It really isn't. It's about knowing enemies from brothers, and treating each accordingly.

We are called to get along, to love your brothers and your enemies.
Enemies are easy, it is your brothers who are hard, because you so want to help them, but often are powerless.

We are also called to see the good in each other and not hunt out tares as this will damage the good seed.

 

[JesusIsAll]

2 Corinthians 6:14-18 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

 

[atwhatcost]

I'm not a cessationist

However, there is no excuse for upholding false doctrine because one has a favorite teacher/pastor/ (cough cough) prophet

There is no across the board attack going on and that remark is typical of the kind of rhetoric that sweats up an arguement.

It is geared to create defensiveness and retaliation

Typical and easily recognized....but it is not inspired by the Holy Spirit

It is either of the flesh or well...the other choice

The only casualty is the one given in to by those who cannot stand to have anyone hold up the word and declare their pet doctrines are not found IN that word

And then we have the 'God told me" club and a close second (and actually evil IMO) the 'God told me to tell you club'

I have more experience then I actually wish to have with the abuse of the gifts and the fleecing the sheep that goes on

Men of God you say? well, if they are only men, then surely they are not above inspection?

There have been some utterly outrageous statements made around here lately...it is grievous and very misrepresentational of any actual gifts God may choose to give

God is not a God of the hoopla circus that it seems most who believe in the gifts attend and endorse these days

And no, God is not going to defend you against me...I have on many occasions prayed that God defend ME against the people who abuse what God calls good

The pride and vanity of some, who think that their word is as good as God's written word, is astounding and yet they do not recognize that because they are deceived

In one of my posts recently I mentioned that many of us feel like our backs are up against a wall, so instead of going with defense, we go with offense. I'd say I do that too often. (Well, even once is too often, so let's call it "very often" instead.) Because of that, I've decided to name that wall The Defensive Wall.

I'm very visual in my thinking, forever imagining what something looks like. I've taken it so far in my mental images that I can picture Humpty Dumpty sitting on top of the wall. I've joined him. I've joined him, because it beats going on the offense.

I bring this up for two reasons:
1. In all fairness, until just now, I've had you on ignore for a while, Ember. I did that because you were offensive, and I didn't want to charge at you like a raging rhino. (Well, I really did, and I'm very good at that, but God didn't want me to, so the only way I could avoid doing that is to put you on ignore to protect me and you.) So, I mention that because I absolutely know that I keep thinking I'm This kind of person, and folks on here have been kind enough to LOL me when I tell what kind of This I am, but I'm really That. So, I figure you could have a little LOL, but not at you. I'm hoping with you. Care to join me on the Defensive Wall? It certainly beats going offensive, and gives time to see how we're being all defensive when we could just be honest with ourselves and others.

Which brings me to the other point.

2. Hubby is good at reigning me in when I go all offensive as my good defense. He only needs to say a couple of words to make me realize what I'm doing and back down from it before it goes too far. I could use that here too, but he's never going to come here. (He hates any site that he has to sign up for or participate in. lol) So, since I know I'm not the only one to go offensive when provoked, (I can count on one hand the number of people who don't go offensive on here when provoked and still have enough fingers left over on that hand to eat with. lol), is it okay if we come up with a short phrase to hint at others when to cut it out? It seems a lot quicker and a lot less disruptive for a thread than spend a whole post "being diplomatic."

And if you think that's a bad idea, umm, why? (And that's not a defensive why, that's a "maybe I missed something" why, so don't worry about being diplomatic on me before telling me why it's a bad idea.)

And if it sounds like a good idea, I can give you hubby's phrase, (which still works despite that no longer being a problem, simply because it worked for so long lol), "When's your period coming, honey?" LOL So, seeing where that won't work so well for many on this site, it can be "care to join me on the defensive wall?"

If that doesn't work for anyone else, please use it on me, because it works for me.

(And then the only issue is I'm on Page 2, but someone says that on Page 10. lol)

BTW, I'm on Page 3 now, so won't be seeing any answers to my questions raised for a few pages. I am reading through.

 

[atwhatcost]

Unity must not mean compromise.

eat least among the denomination that use bible as the foundation.

I'm sorry. I don't get this since the post before this you presented was something the pope said. He wants unity at any cost. That's too high a cost. That brings it down to junk bond level.

 

[atwhatcost]

i think he's pretty busy with site maintenance and live chat features at the moment.

however, he always responds to PMs and (live) chatted with me this morning for over an hour.

he's a very dear man.

I keep thinking he's a very tired man! (All the outages seem to happen during the daytime in the US, so apparently the wrong time where he lives. lol)

 

[atwhatcost]

By the way, I was wrong.

I had my thoughts too, but let's not get into keeping score. For me? Not enough paper and the last of the pack of pencils is a nub. lol

 

[atwhatcost]

it had always been interesting to me that non Catholics say Catholics have a works Salvation. Even though they don't, non Catholics say " oh yes you do" as if they have a clue

Yeah. Sorry. Really doesn't work for me, although I've seen this excuse often enough.

16 years a Catholic before being born again. Another 6 years born again and Catholic, until I simply couldn't stay anymore. I'm my younger brother's godmother (in the Catholic meaning of that sentence), and my mother died when I was 16 and he was 5, but not before making me promise to raise him in the Catholic Church.

I truly understand the problems, probably better than half the RCC does. That includes all the "but we aren't like that" lines used by many Catholics who are thinking protestants don't understand what they are like. Exactly what do you think that 95 Theses was all about?

 

[atwhatcost]

Read the book of revelations and tell me if this unity is going to be maintained

I have. It will. God wins!

 

[mwc68]

I don't get where people keep thinking this is about "getting along." It really isn't. It's about knowing enemies from brothers, and treating each accordingly.

So, you really dont care about doctrinal differences. We are enemies?

 

[mwc68]

Yeah. Sorry. Really doesn't work for me, although I've seen this excuse often enough.

16 years a Catholic before being born again. Another 6 years born again and Catholic, until I simply couldn't stay anymore. I'm my younger brother's godmother (in the Catholic meaning of that sentence), and my mother died when I was 16 and he was 5, but not before making me promise to raise him in the Catholic Church.

I truly understand the problems, probably better than half the RCC does. That includes all the "but we aren't like that" lines used by many Catholics who are thinking protestants don't understand what they are like. Exactly what do you think that 95 Theses was all about?

What's 95 These?

 

[atwhatcost]

It really is a simple recipe, isn't it? Not much harder than boiling an egg.

(Note to self: Never invite PC over for boiled eggs. He doesn't know what they smell like when I forget they're boiling and the water runs out.)

 

[atwhatcost]

I think the major question we need to address is, what is more important to us as Christians? Glorifying God in all we do, or putting the "unrighteous" in their place? Though trite and overworked, the way to arrive at the answer is ask the cliché-question, "What would Jesus do?"

Yes, He did call the Pharisees a "brood of vipers." But He is God the Son. He has the right to make that statement. By what right do we, who also live in error and occasional sin, have to make that statement? While it can be, to some extent, accurately said that we have a corner on truth, do we deliver it by force of words, or with love and non-judgment?

It should be obvious to anyone who has seen my posts since I've been here that I have long been convinced that force of words is the answer. It grows painfully obvious that it does not. I agree, even the last two days, the temptation to lash out is still present, and I've edited a number of posts before actually sending them off into the ether.

I think Paul's words are an excellent comfort to us, as it seems perhaps he knew first-hand of the exact dilemma we are going through now.

1 Corinthians 13, NASB
1 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
2 If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.
3 And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.
4 Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant,
5 does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered,
6 does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth;
7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8(a) Love never fails;​

Love does not ignore truth. It promotes it, even in the face of adversity.

One would think, right? Our problems develop when we rise up and admit our own shortcomings and see others fail to recognize their own. We can't take the speck out of others' eyes, even if we have removed the log from our own. All we can do is reach out and offer help with their speck. They must accept our offer, and to to that, they also have to realize they have the speck and that it needs removal. If they refuse to acknowledge the speck, they obviously don't believe they need our assistance.

... and then what?

 

[atwhatcost]

[QUOTE=p_rehbein;2139290]True, but I am only addressing the "promotion of unity."

That is also what I am addressing. Simply removing the hate/arrogance/pride/etc. from one's own heart doesn't promote unity, though. That was my point (which I see now I didn't do a very good job of developing).

We can't achieve unity just by making personal changes, we have to advocate for change across the board -- literally.[/QUOTE]
Nor can it be across the board, since some of the board is pepper.

(Analogy, if we're the salt of the earth what is the truly evil stuff of the earth if not pepper?)

What you're proposing is both radical and the same radical stuff God talks about in the Bible, but if I'm rising above, I'm worried about what's below me. Some of it is dog doo. (Most of it is not.) How do we handle dog doo/pepper?

 

[atwhatcost]

We are called to get along, to love your brothers and your enemies.
Enemies are easy, it is your brothers who are hard, because you so want to help them, but often are powerless.

We are also called to see the good in each other and not hunt out tares as this will damage the good seed.

Tare is poisonous. We don't sup on tare.

 

[atwhatcost]

What's 95 These?

https://www.google.com/search?q=95+...rome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8

 

[mwc68]

https://www.google.com/search?q=95+...rome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8

You cant tell me? I guess not since you admitted we are enemies. FYI Catholics consider you brethren. Just read that 95 Theses. Did not know you were referring to Luther's demon possession

 

[Jackson123]

You cant tell me? I guess not since you admitted we are enemies. FYI Catholics consider you brethren

we have to love our neighbor, Hindu Muslim, etc.

But between Christian and catholic is like Muslim and Hindu. 2 different religion system.

 

[Miri]

Another difficulty is that everyone is at different levels in their walk with Jesus.

As a young christian I thought I knew it all and everything seemed very black and
white and I was full of myself (looking back I knew nothing).

As an older christian now I know I don't know nothing and I'm going grey,
spiritually and physically.

Just when I think I know something, Jesus turns it completely on its head!

I remember ages ago someone said "when I get on my high horse, Jesus comes
along on a donkey".

Every time pride rears it head, I take a tumble.
Every time I get judgemental, I find myself in the same position.
Every time I find myself getting all worked up over nothing, Jesus
whispers count your blessings.
Many times I have started to post on CC, then heard a little voice
whisper, forget it and move on, let me deal with this.

We are fighting a spiritual battle, it's all around us day in day out.
Sometimes it is right to be at the front, other times we need to let
Jesus handle it.

When satan rears his ugly head, point him to the cross
and remind him of his fate. The battle isn't against people on CC.

Eph 6 v 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against
principalities against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this
age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

Things that get in the way of unity among born again believers
(I am not exempt from this either and I would not judge another without
pointing the finger at myself).


Pride, pride, pride, pride, pride, pride, pride, pride pride, pride ........
lack of humbleness, lack of humbleness, lack of humbleness ..........
unwillingness to forgive, unwillingness to forgive, unwillingness to forgive.....

our agenda not Gods, our agenda not Gods, our agenda not Gods......
lack of wisdom and patience, lack of wisdom and patience etc etc..

easier to put down another instead of raising them up, easier to put
down another instead of raising them up.....

I could go on and on and on - why am I repeating myself - because it is
so easy to just gloss over a few words without really reading them.

Lord help me to be more like you and less like me.


John 3:30 NKJV - He must increase, but I must decrease.

 

[purgedconscience]

(Note to self: Never invite PC over for boiled eggs. He doesn't know what they smell like when I forget they're boiling and the water runs out.)

I was composing a post the other day and I suddenly noticed the smell of smoke. I looked in the mirror to make sure that it wasn't proceeding from my ears or the top of my head and, thankfully, it wasn't. haha. Instead, my wife had gone out without first turning off one of the burners on the stove and some oil left in a pot was producing the smell.