Do you know why you are a protestant???

[Mec99]

I for one think its wrong for Catholics to call us names since they do not like to be called names either.

You will never influence anyone mwc68 if you keep on being rude to them or call them names like "Protestants" which I feel is being very rude.

And I do apologize for the "Maryologics" remark. Its not very becoming of me but I was upset at the time.

 

[KenAllan]

I disagree VCO, the Apocrypha are books that were not Inspired by the Holy Spirit. They were written by men who never accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior and never had the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

The Catholic Church uses the Apocrypha books for the Doctrine of Purgatory.

 

[VCO]

I disagree VCO, the Apocrypha are books that were not Inspired by the Holy Spirit. They were written by men who never accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior and never had the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

The Catholic Church uses the Apocrypha books for the Doctrine of Purgatory.

I got news for you, there are protestant Churches that recognize some or all of the Apocrypha Books or used to recognize the Apocrypha Books too, such as the Church of England recognized them but not as the Canonized Scriptures.

Q: What how many different sets of apocryphal books are there among churches? A: There are at least four different sets of apocrypha.
Catholic: 1 and 2 Maccabees, Baruch, Daniel additions, Ecclesiasticus (Sirach), Esther additions, Judith, Letter of Jeremiah in Baruch, Tobit, Wisdom of Solomon.
Slavonic Orthodox: Same as the Catholic Apocrypha plus 2 Esdras, 3 Esdras, and 3 Maccabees, Prayer of Manasseh, Psalm 151.
Greek Orthodox: Same as Slavonic Orthodox Apocrypha plus 4 Maccabees in the appendix.
Historical Coptic: 1, 2, 3 Maccabees, Baruch, Daniel additions, Ecclesiasticus (Sirach), Esther additions, Judith, Letter of Jeremiah, Psalm 151, Tobit, Wisdom of Solomon. However, under Cyril V (1874-1927), The Coptic church later rejected these books as part of the Bible. See The Coptic Encyclopedia vol.1 p.161 for more info.
Protestants in contrast, the same Old Testament is the Jews, except for the order and splitting of books. All the churches above agree on the books of the Protestant/Jewish Old Testament.

Q: Where did the apocryphal books come from?
A: The Septuagint apocrypha books first appeared after the Old Testament was translated to Greek about 200-100 B.C. This translation, called the Septuagint, was well done for the Pentateuch, and not that well done for some of the prophetic books. Jews in Palestine never called it scripture. Greek-speaking Jews and Christians outside of Palestine assumed it was scripture, since it was in the Septuagint.
When the early Christian monk Jerome translated the Old Testament from the Hebrew into Latin, he had to answer a question: "Should he include these books or not?" Early in his life he thought so, but later in his life he only accepted the Hebrew originals for the Old Testament.
In 90 A.D. the Jewish Council that met in the town of Jamnia excluded from the Old Testament all but the writings Jews and Protestants accept today. AT Jamnia there was some discussion of Ruth, Esther, Song of Songs, and Ecclesiastes, but all of them were accepted. Among Christians there was no consensus about the apocrypha until Augustine championed the Apocrypha at the Council of Carthage in 397 A.D. (after Jerome’s death). These writings were in Bibles used by Christians for over 1,100 years. Even the King James Bible of 1611 originally included it. After Puritan protests, it was excluded from 1644 onward.
For more on the canon of the Old Testament and the Apocrypha, see Today’s Handbook p.36-42.

Q: What are the earliest copies we have of the apocryphal books?
A: Among the Dead Sea Scrolls are fragments of 5 scrolls of Sirach (4 in Aramaic and 1 in Aramaic) and some of Tobit. A scroll at Masada contains Sirach 39:27-44:17c in Hebrew according to Responses to 101 Questions on the Dead Sea Scrolls p.25. It also says the Dead Sea Scrolls in cave 4 had fragments.
Vaticanus (325-350 A.D.) and Alexandrinus (c.450 A.D.) contain the entire Apocrypha including 3 and 4 Maccabees (early version, not just modern Catholic version).Sinaiticus (340-350 A.D.) contains Tobit, Judith, 1 and 4 Maccabees, Wisdom, and Sirach.
Asimov’s Guide to the Bible p.573 says that Baruch, also called "The Letter of Jeremiah", was written around 100 B.C. primarily as an argument against idol worship. It is in some Greek and Syriac versions of the Bible.

Bible Query from the Apocrypha

When the New Testament writers quote the Hebrew Bible (OT), they usually use the Septuagint, the Greek version prepared by Jewish scholars in Alexandria, Egypt. Unfortunately, the Septuagint contains some readings widely at variance with the Massoretic text, the Hebrew bible used as a basis for the OT used by Protestants. Furthermore, the Septuagint scrolls contained a varying number of books of the Apocrypha, interspersed with now-canonical books, which books of the Apocrypha are not accepted by Protestants. In this particular matter, today's Protestants have departed from early church tradition.

The Old Testament Apocrypha

1 Esdras

2 Esdras

Tobit

Judith

Additions to Esther

Wisdom of Solomon

Ecclesiasticus, or the Wisdom of Jesus the son of Sirach, or Sira

Baruch

The Letter of Jeremiah

The Prayer of Azariah and the Song of the Three Young Men (addition to Daniel)

Susanna (Daniel)

Bel and the Dragon (Daniel)

The Prayer of Manasseh

1 Maccabees

2 Maccabees

The Apocrypha, as included in the Revised Standard Version (1957).

The Old Testament Apocrypha consists of these fifteen books in many of today's English language Bibles. In previous English editions of the Bible which included the Apocrypha, the Letter of Jeremiah was incorporated into Baruch, giving only fourteen books.

IN FACT, you can still get the KJV with the Apocrypha.

So do I think the Apocrypha belongs in the Bible? NO, but those books should be considered to have some value as Historical Commentaries, not as the WORD of GOD.

 

[mwc68]

I for one think its wrong for Catholics to call us names since they do not like to be called names either.

You will never influence anyone mwc68 if you keep on being rude to them or call them names like "Protestants" which I feel is being very rude.

And I do apologize for the "Maryologics" remark. Its not very becoming of me but I was upset at the time.

Its just a name not meant to be derogatory. If you're protestant, you're not Catholic. If you're Catholic, you're not protestant.

 

[VCO]

I for one think its wrong for Catholics to call us names since they do not like to be called names either.

You will never influence anyone mwc68 if you keep on being rude to them or call them names like "Protestants" which I feel is being very rude.

And I do apologize for the "Maryologics" remark. Its not very becoming of me but I was upset at the time.

HEY, I grew up in the Bible Belt, and I heard as much, if not MORE, Denominational Bigotry Name Calling coming from the Protestants, AIMED at the Catholics, as well as the Catholics calling us names.

THAT is the main reason that I now go to a Non-Denominational Church, because I got sick and tired of the bickering between denominations. It seems almost everyone has forgotten that GOD HATES THE ONE WHO STIRS UP DISSENSION AMONG THE BRETHREN.


Proverbs 10:12 (NIV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Hatred stirs up dissension, but love covers over all wrongs.

Proverbs 16:28 (NIV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] A perverse man stirs up dissension, and a gossip separates close friends.

1 John 3:15 (ESV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

1 John 4:20 (ESV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen.

Proverbs 6:16-19 (NIV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] There are six things the LORD hates, seven that are detestable to him:
[SUP]17 [/SUP] haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood,
[SUP]18 [/SUP] a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil,
[SUP]19 [/SUP] a false witness who pours out lies and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers.


I am sorry if it seems like I have ZERO tolerance for Denominational Bickering; but the way I read the above verses, SO DOES GOD. So some Denominations has less right than others, and since we are NOT INFALLIBLE, and sin dwells in us; I think it is safe to conclude we all have some things that we have misinterpreted. ONLY, when we arrive in Heaven will we truly KNOW as we are Known. IF they believe and teach THE HOLY TRINITY, THE DEITY OF JESUS CHRIST, THAT SALVATION IS BY GRACE AND NOT BY WORKS, AND THAT AT LEAST 66 BOOKS OF THE WERE DEFINITELY INSPIRED BY GOD; THEN THEY ARE OUR CHRISTIAN BROTHERS AND SISTERS, INDEED. We therefore should show our LOVE for them by being willing to cover up their wrongs with the LOVE that the Holy Spirit POURED INTO OUR HEARTS, (Rom. 5:5). I am sure that when we all get to Heaven, we will be embarrassed and maybe even laugh at what all we personally had wrong.

In the MEAN TIME, we need to band together in LOVE, like NEVER before; and finish the Task at hand.

Matthew 28:19-20 (NIV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
[SUP]20 [/SUP] and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

 

[Mec99]

The Church i attend refuse to use the Apocrypha books.

We listen only to the Holy Spirit and what He has to say. The Holy Spirit is who we listen to, we never listen to what the World has to say about the Truth in the Bible.

 

[VCO]

Today not all protestants believe the same, but there are two things that the protestant believers all believed when the protestant movement stated. That the RCC was the anti-christ (in Revelation and Daniel 7) and that salvation is by faith in Jesus Christ alone. This should not mean that protestants hate Catholics as people but protest against the church teachings.

WRONG. THAT WAS A CHARISMATIC INVENTION THAT SPAWNED IN THE MIND OF THE FALSE PROPHET JACK CHICK. You read Chick Tracts growing up, didn't you?

 

[Mec99]

How can the Catholics enter into Heaven when they practice Idolatry?

Praying to Mary is Idolatry. Bowing down to a statue of Mary is Idolatry. Praying the Rosary to Mary is Idolatry.

Galatians 5:19-21
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
[SUP]20 [/SUP] idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,
[SUP]21 [/SUP] envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[Budman]

Do You Know Why You Are A Protestant???

I'm a Protestant because I protest the heresy of the Roman Catholic Church.

Simple enough.

 

[GuessWho]

Example: Only MARY could keep Jesus without sin and God did not have the power to keep Jesus without sin. Talk about putting Mary way above God!

It would be honest if you gave the source for this supposedly catholic teaching.
The immaculate conception is a catholic doctrine (a false one, yes) but it means something completely different from what you said.

 

[MikeHenderson]

Ask mwc68, he has posted the doctrine that Mary was without sin so Jesus could be without sin. Look back at his posts on this site.

 

[JaumeJ]

The Word is clear on inherince or legacy of sin. The sin of the parants is NOT visited upon the children nor are the sins of the children to be visited upon the parents.

In a nutshell, children cannot be held as sinners because their parents are. When they sin, it is on their own heads.

If people have a drive to make everything in the Word difficult for themselves, fine, but do not do it to others. These peple muste either accept the Word as truth or pray until they are within the realm of understanding.

 

[KenAllan]

Immaculate conception.

In the Apostolic Constitution Ineffabilis Deus, Pope Pius IX wrote that "We declare, pronounce, and define that the doctrine which holds that the most Blessed Virgin Mary, in the first instance of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege granted by Almighty God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Savior of the human race, was preserved free from all stain of original sin, is a doctrine revealed by God and therefore to be believed firmly and constantly by all the faithful."

 

[JaumeJ]

And this declaration is made by a man who calls himself spiritually, father. I guess he never studied Christs' teachings.

Immaculate conception.

In the Apostolic Constitution Ineffabilis Deus, Pope Pius IX wrote that "We declare, pronounce, and define that the doctrine which holds that the most Blessed Virgin Mary, in the first instance of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege granted by Almighty God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Savior of the human race, was preserved free from all stain of original sin, is a doctrine revealed by God and therefore to be believed firmly and constantly by all the faithful."

 

[Mec99]

The Pope is not chosen by how Spiritual he is, the Pope is chosen by how much power he holds in the Catholic Church and how much power he can wield.

 

[mwc68]

The Pope is not chosen by how Spiritual he is, the Pope is chosen by how much power he holds in the Catholic Church and how much power he can wield.

That's not true!

 

[MikeHenderson]

We are getting a little tired of you always bashing Christians just because you say its not true. Yet you never seem to provide anything from the Scriptures to back up your saying its not true.

 

[VCO]

How can the Catholics enter into Heaven when they practice Idolatry?

Praying to Mary is Idolatry. Bowing down to a statue of Mary is Idolatry. Praying the Rosary to Mary is Idolatry.

Galatians 5:19-21
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
[SUP]20 [/SUP] idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,
[SUP]21 [/SUP] envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Now let me expose how LITTLE you know about the Catholic Beliefs. I had a very long discussion with a Catholic Priest friend of mine. He explained in detail what they are actually taught in Seminary about praying to Mary and the Saints.

He asked me: "Do you believe in asking a Christian Brother to pray for you?"

I responded: "Sure, we are told to due so in the Book of James."

He replied: "Now show me the Chapter and Verse where it tells us to STOP asking that Christian Brother or Sister to pray for you once they have died."

He went on to explain: "Our prayers to Mary and the Saints are nothing more than a continuation of asking them to PRAY FOR US, which is called intercessory prayer, and all of us Christians are commended to pray for one another."

NOW, that is far different than the evil you imagined in your ignorance, than what Catholics are actually doing. Within the "Hail Mary" Prayer, it even asks Mary to: "pray for us sinners". NOW no where in Scripture does it tell us NOT TO ASK DEAD CHRISTIANS TO PRAY FOR US, NEITHER DOES IS IT TELL US TO DO IT. Therefore it is a gray area, and falls into the realm of this verse:

Romans 14:5 (NKJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike.
Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.


Now as far as your pointing the finger at someone and declaring that "YOU PRACTICE IDOLATRY"; remember every time you point that finger you have three pointing back at yourself. A figurine is NOT AN IDOL, unless YOU MAKE IT for the exclusive purpose of bowing to it AS A GOD. PROOF of that statement lies in the FACT that GOD commanded the Israelite Craftsmen to make TWO FIGURINES OF ANGELS TO GO ON TOP OF THE ARK OF THE COVENANT IN THE TEMPLE.

NOW it is my turn to ask you two questions.

WHO APPOINTED YOU THE POLICEMAN OF HOW OTHERS WORD THEIR PRAYERS?

ARE YOU SURE YOU ARE NOT BOWING TO AN IDOL WHILE ACCUSING THE CATHOLICS?

Colossians 3:4-7 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]When Christ, who is our life, is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Therefore consider the members of your earthly body as dead to immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed, which amounts to idolatry.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For it is because of these things that the wrath of God will come upon the sons of disobedience,
[SUP]7 [/SUP]and in them you also once walked, when you were living in them.

 

[mwc68]

We are getting a little tired of you always bashing Christians just because you say its not true. Yet you never seem to provide anything from the Scriptures to back up your saying its not true.

Does the bible contain the formula you use to vote in your Pastor? Where in the scriptures is the formula for your councils? Do you even go to church or are you one these that thinks they're to good for church ?

 

[VCO]

Does the bible contain the formula you use to vote in your Pastor? Where in the scriptures is the formula for your councils? Do you even go to church or are you one these that thinks they're to good for church ?

I KNOW!

1 Timothy 3:1-13 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
[SUP]3 [/SUP] not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity
[SUP]5 [/SUP] (but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?),
[SUP]6 [/SUP] and not a new convert, so that he will not become conceited and fall into the condemnation incurred by the devil.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] And he must have a good reputation with those outside the church, so that he will not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Deacons likewise must be men of dignity, not double-tongued, or addicted to much wine or fond of sordid gain,
[SUP]9 [/SUP] but holding to the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] These men must also first be tested; then let them serve as deacons if they are beyond reproach.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Women must likewise be dignified, not malicious gossips, but temperate, faithful in all things.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Deacons must be husbands of only one wife, and good managers of their children and their own households.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For those who have served well as deacons obtain for themselves a high standing and great confidence in the faith that is in Christ Jesus.

Titus 1:5-11 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For this reason I left you in Crete, that you would set in order what remains and appoint elders in every city as I directed you,
[SUP]6 [/SUP] namely, if any man is above reproach, the husband of one wife, having children who believe, not accused of dissipation or rebellion.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] For the overseer must be above reproach as God's steward, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not addicted to wine, not pugnacious, not fond of sordid gain,
[SUP]8 [/SUP] but hospitable, loving what is good, sensible, just, devout, self-controlled,
[SUP]9 [/SUP] holding fast the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, so that he will be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For there are many rebellious men, empty talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision,
[SUP]11 [/SUP] who must be silenced because they are upsetting whole families, teaching things they should not teach for the sake of sordid gain.

1 Timothy 2:7-15 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying) as a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Therefore I want the men in every place to pray, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and dissension.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments,
[SUP]10 [/SUP] but rather by means of good works, as is proper for women making a claim to godliness.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint.

Acts 6:2-4 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] So the twelve summoned the congregation of the disciples and said, "It is not desirable for us to neglect the word of God in order to serve tables.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] "Therefore, brethren, select from among you seven men of good reputation, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we may put in charge of this task.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] "But we will devote ourselves to prayer and to the ministry of the word."