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I would say, that the whole music business is form the world, and not form God.
There is a spiritual songs in books of psalm,s but as we all may see, that today's song's or even the song's in your church do not represent those kind of song's.
The time what we live now, is the predicted time of apostasy, and that's why the world is full of, all kind unholy manner's which still claim to be christianc manners, even though they not.
This present christianity is lost, do not go with this all, it is that strong delusion which was coming in the world, in a time of our dear brother's apostles.
There is a spiritual songs in books of psalm,s but as we all may see, that today's song's or even the song's in your church do not represent those kind of song's.
The time what we live now, is the predicted time of apostasy, and that's why the world is full of, all kind unholy manner's which still claim to be christianc manners, even though they not.
This present christianity is lost, do not go with this all, it is that strong delusion which was coming in the world, in a time of our dear brother's apostles.
The thing is that we have to be willing to give everything up for Jesus Christ. Now, if I ask you that if you had to give up Metal for Jesus, what would be your first reaction to such a question? Would it be a resounding yes? What I am saying is that if you truly love Jesus, you will want to side on the road of caution so as to please your Lord and maybe see if what some of are sayng here might be true (According to the Word and various experiments done upon people with this type of music). For surely giving up something that you are not addicted to in a wrong way will not be a problem.
You are not really addressing any points in Scripture and or the Science behind those who have been effected wrongfully by Heavy Metal music. You have also not addressed those believers who felt that they have been delivered by the dark effects of this music, too.
Anyways, more and more I am realizing now we are in the last days because people love the things of this world rather than the things of God (Which are spiritual and good). I am also beginning to see how it is harder to talk to people about the Word of God (even self proclaiming believers who do not believe their own Bibles). It makes me want to move on beyond this site (If people do not want to listen to what God's Word says).
Anyways, more and more I am realizing now we are in the last days because people love the things of this world rather than the things of God (Which are spiritual and good). I am also beginning to see how it is harder to talk to people about the Word of God (even self proclaiming believers who do not believe their own Bibles). It makes me want to move on beyond this site (If people do not want to listen to what God's Word says).
B
Jason, you have to at least consider the application of this scripture as it pertains to the life of the believer.
Phil 2:13 For it is God that worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure.
It is a progressive work that has a beginning when we believe upon the Son and this work continues in the life of the believer until the day of redemption (Eph 4:30). This work transforms us little by little and causes us to grow up in Christ. We are positionally perfect in Christ but not in our experience and walk of faith. We have to give people room to grow in the light. The light can not be forced on anyone and people develop a hunger and thirst after righteousness. This is why we are to continue to minister grace with our words and not alienate others. The more a believer hears the word of God the greater the capacity they have to hunger and thirst after righteousness.
The more we walk by faith the greater the promises of God become to us and the greater the capacity we have to trust God in all things. Any believer who falls into sin needs an abundance of grace to get them to walk upright. Pointing out sin will never restore the believer because they already know their sin. What they need is what they do not deserve and that is what God plans to give to them. We need to point them to the cross where their sin was crucified to give them hope that their sin will not condemn them. Satan is a master at condemning believers through sin and holding them in that condemnation by imputing sin and charging them with guilt.
Phil 2:13 For it is God that worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure.
It is a progressive work that has a beginning when we believe upon the Son and this work continues in the life of the believer until the day of redemption (Eph 4:30). This work transforms us little by little and causes us to grow up in Christ. We are positionally perfect in Christ but not in our experience and walk of faith. We have to give people room to grow in the light. The light can not be forced on anyone and people develop a hunger and thirst after righteousness. This is why we are to continue to minister grace with our words and not alienate others. The more a believer hears the word of God the greater the capacity they have to hunger and thirst after righteousness.
The more we walk by faith the greater the promises of God become to us and the greater the capacity we have to trust God in all things. Any believer who falls into sin needs an abundance of grace to get them to walk upright. Pointing out sin will never restore the believer because they already know their sin. What they need is what they do not deserve and that is what God plans to give to them. We need to point them to the cross where their sin was crucified to give them hope that their sin will not condemn them. Satan is a master at condemning believers through sin and holding them in that condemnation by imputing sin and charging them with guilt.
almost all of the objection to certain musical styles here seem to me to boil down to something as silly as saying
"the world uses the English language, and we need to not look like the world, therefore we should not speak English"
or "many bad things have been said in the English language, therefore using the English language is evil"
or "many wicked people speak English, therefore speaking English is evil"
First, of all, there are no such things as trolls. There are only humans and they should be treated with love and respect (even if they are your enemies or even if they are some kind of internet bad guy). Second, addressing points is not a one sided thing. You have to properly explain how my points are not Biblical and logical. Then we can move on to discussing your points. But will you do that? My guess is that you won't do so. Third, believing that you can sin and still be saved is at the heart of why you may not consider Heavy Metal music all that bad. For if one believes they can abide in sin, and they are doing so currently, then they have not truly repented and accepted Christ or they had been tricked into believing in a sin and still be saved doctrine. For if one is habitually sinning, then they are still the old man who is unregenerated and in no way different or changed spiritually (Whereby all things have become new).
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If it was a Commandment from God... yes. But there is no such Commandment. Nor is there are any example in the Bible that listening to music that is aggressive is okay. On the contrary the Bible speaks out against being angry and such. Heavy Metal music promotes one in being angry and wrathful. Yes, there is a righteous anger that believers can have, but Heavy Metal is not righteous anger but it is a mindless carnal anger that is of the world. It is a beat the instills violence. If you cannot see that, I would suggest you pray about it some more. For most who involve themselves with Heavy Metal focus on death instead of life. Do you focus on death alot? If not, then why do you have a skeleton avatar? Do you have alot of things in your home that focus on death, too? I say this because the Bible says not to have any appearance of evil.
Ahh more random music hating. Everytime I see this nonsense I find a new hardcore band to support, hoping eventually they drown out the morons.
[video=youtube;afTyA4pLX1A]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afTyA4pLX1A[/video]
up from the deep, and from the furthest unseen reach
a call is sounding forth sustained and deafening
I cannot breathe, I choke to raise my voice and sing
no words remain instead I bow my head and weep
speak no more
the terror and beauty, You echo into me
all things are just words You chose to speak
what You sing is flawless but I ring back discordant
I'm a ruined wasted melody
sing no more
Your words destroying everything
the earth collapses under me
how could I stand against Your voice
empty throat, all I make is noise
silence falls over me
in that void You speak
one final word; mercy
weep no more
majesty, worship Your majesty
Jesus who died
now glorified
king of of all kings
majesty, kingdom authority
flows from Your throne
unto Your own
Your anthem raise
king of of all kings
all hail!
[video=youtube;afTyA4pLX1A]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afTyA4pLX1A[/video]
up from the deep, and from the furthest unseen reach
a call is sounding forth sustained and deafening
I cannot breathe, I choke to raise my voice and sing
no words remain instead I bow my head and weep
speak no more
the terror and beauty, You echo into me
all things are just words You chose to speak
what You sing is flawless but I ring back discordant
I'm a ruined wasted melody
sing no more
Your words destroying everything
the earth collapses under me
how could I stand against Your voice
empty throat, all I make is noise
silence falls over me
in that void You speak
one final word; mercy
weep no more
majesty, worship Your majesty
Jesus who died
now glorified
king of of all kings
majesty, kingdom authority
flows from Your throne
unto Your own
Your anthem raise
king of of all kings
all hail!
of course. anything enjoyable has to sin. can't listen to music, watch a movie, have a beer, have a cigar, all hell-bound affronts to God. according to folks like you. folks like you drove me away from Christ as a teen, then I heard the REAL Gospel, I came back with open arms. the you can't you can't you can't drives folks away. liberty in Christ. you want some verses there jas, cause I know you never read those.
what about "who are you to judge another man's servant" ?
or "let us make every effort to do what leads to peace and mutual edification" ?
or "it is to one's glory to overlook an offense" ?
i don't think these mean we ought to be out on the warpath looking for nits to pick
if it bothers your conscience to eat meat, don't eat it. but why go around the cafeteria yelling at everyone else who is eating their meals in peace?
except for all the psalms that encourage shouting and loud noise? or those that pray for the Lord to avenge wrongs and fight against our enemies?
the Bible doesn't say "anger is wrong" -- it says in fact "be angry and sin not" and in another place says "the Lord is angry with the wicked every day"
also, what you're saying here is subjective, and contradicts what you say next:
so do you think "righteous anger" is something we should make every effort to avoid?
or is it something that finds its expression?
what if i rejoice in God's victory as i sing of the violent overthrow of sin within myself?
death is not evil. in fact, the reason i know that i will live with Christ is because of the fact that i have died with Him. (Romans 6:8) there's a duality here that i think maybe you want to ignore half of, in more than one way -- we live by the Spirit because we have died to the flesh. if we have not died to the flesh, we cannot live through the Spirit. so if we have died to the world, how can you judge by it? to love God is to hate sin - if we do not hate sin, we cannot love God. how can you say it is evil then, to express hostility towards those things that are antithetical towards righteousness? or how can you say that it is evil to express hostility at all, if loving God and hating sin are exactly the same thing?
we do not become emotionless blobs in Christ. we become alive, and that life does not arise unless the former things die. so death is not an evil in and of itself - it is a necessary first step, and the death we find in Him that leads to life in Him is to be joyed over, not hidden away and ignored.
just because you don't understand what people - and not just people, but your brothers and sisters in Christ - see in a form of musical expression does not mean that it is evil. it's not any more just of you to rail on and issue blanket condemnation of all this because of your own subjective impression, without understanding, than it is for someone to go around yelling at people who honor the Lord with a Sabbath on a saturday, or a sunday, or a tuesday, or on every day of every week of every year. each of us should be convinced in their own mind.
it's obvious that you are convinced in your own mind that any music with more than 60 beats per minute is wicked. that's fine - for you. total waste of my time and totally off-track for me to try to convince you otherwise.
also total waste of your time, and totally off-track for you to try to convince everyone else that what they thank God for is wicked.
i listen to a lot of different music - and i've been praying about it and studying about it for 25 years. i'm not just talking from the point of view of a die-hard metalhead who refuses to abide by anything else. i've even spent years listening to nothing at all - not even acapella singing.
what i discovered in my life is that i was being foolish, pushing away joy and refusing edification and strength, all for the sake of carnal commandments that have no spiritual value. i was blind when i followed such rules, but the God who made the eyes also made the ears, and He leads me into fullness through His freedom.
or "let us make every effort to do what leads to peace and mutual edification" ?
or "it is to one's glory to overlook an offense" ?
i don't think these mean we ought to be out on the warpath looking for nits to pick
if it bothers your conscience to eat meat, don't eat it. but why go around the cafeteria yelling at everyone else who is eating their meals in peace?
except for all the psalms that encourage shouting and loud noise? or those that pray for the Lord to avenge wrongs and fight against our enemies?
the Bible doesn't say "anger is wrong" -- it says in fact "be angry and sin not" and in another place says "the Lord is angry with the wicked every day"
also, what you're saying here is subjective, and contradicts what you say next:
so do you think "righteous anger" is something we should make every effort to avoid?
or is it something that finds its expression?
what if i rejoice in God's victory as i sing of the violent overthrow of sin within myself?
death is not evil. in fact, the reason i know that i will live with Christ is because of the fact that i have died with Him. (Romans 6:8) there's a duality here that i think maybe you want to ignore half of, in more than one way -- we live by the Spirit because we have died to the flesh. if we have not died to the flesh, we cannot live through the Spirit. so if we have died to the world, how can you judge by it? to love God is to hate sin - if we do not hate sin, we cannot love God. how can you say it is evil then, to express hostility towards those things that are antithetical towards righteousness? or how can you say that it is evil to express hostility at all, if loving God and hating sin are exactly the same thing?
we do not become emotionless blobs in Christ. we become alive, and that life does not arise unless the former things die. so death is not an evil in and of itself - it is a necessary first step, and the death we find in Him that leads to life in Him is to be joyed over, not hidden away and ignored.
just because you don't understand what people - and not just people, but your brothers and sisters in Christ - see in a form of musical expression does not mean that it is evil. it's not any more just of you to rail on and issue blanket condemnation of all this because of your own subjective impression, without understanding, than it is for someone to go around yelling at people who honor the Lord with a Sabbath on a saturday, or a sunday, or a tuesday, or on every day of every week of every year. each of us should be convinced in their own mind.
it's obvious that you are convinced in your own mind that any music with more than 60 beats per minute is wicked. that's fine - for you. total waste of my time and totally off-track for me to try to convince you otherwise.
also total waste of your time, and totally off-track for you to try to convince everyone else that what they thank God for is wicked.
i listen to a lot of different music - and i've been praying about it and studying about it for 25 years. i'm not just talking from the point of view of a die-hard metalhead who refuses to abide by anything else. i've even spent years listening to nothing at all - not even acapella singing.
what i discovered in my life is that i was being foolish, pushing away joy and refusing edification and strength, all for the sake of carnal commandments that have no spiritual value. i was blind when i followed such rules, but the God who made the eyes also made the ears, and He leads me into fullness through His freedom.
The LORD will go forth like a warrior,
He will arouse His zeal like a man of war.
He will utter a shout, yes, He will raise a war cry.
He will prevail against His enemies.
(Isaiah 42:13)
And every blow of the rod of punishment,
Which the LORD will lay on him,
Will be with the music of tambourines and lyres;
And in battles, brandishing weapons, He will fight them.
(Isaiah 30:32)
The LORD is a warrior;
The LORD is His name.
(Exodus 15:3)
He will arouse His zeal like a man of war.
He will utter a shout, yes, He will raise a war cry.
He will prevail against His enemies.
(Isaiah 42:13)
And every blow of the rod of punishment,
Which the LORD will lay on him,
Will be with the music of tambourines and lyres;
And in battles, brandishing weapons, He will fight them.
(Isaiah 30:32)
The LORD is a warrior;
The LORD is His name.
(Exodus 15:3)