Forbidden to look at Big 10?

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bondservant

Guest
#61
#61
Thank you jgig for your post I was about to loose it . I agree that the law just like God is never changing. I posted a short teaching on Matt chapter 5 on a thread a couple of days ago. I see a lot of saints here thinking that the law was changed by Jesus in some way and I thought that maybe they misread this chapter. The law that I see always had grace and mercy in it as with the law giver God. It was the teaching of the law that was perverted.
 
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atwhatcost

Guest
#62
#62
flob said:
yes........your first two paragraphs are absolutely right. Faith, or religion, is protected by free speech and by freedom of religion.

In regard to your last 2 sentences, what exactly is that clause? (yes I can look it up to post if you can't find it.)
I realize some nonchristians and antichristians distort and stretch and pervert the meaning of 'separation of church and state'
to mean a kind of anti-religion ideology. But they err on their side, and it sounds like you take their definition some
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LOL I'm taking a side? Yeah, okay. We can call it that. I'm taking the side of someone who learned basic American history back in high school and college. Sounds like you got stuck with one of the following scenarios:
1. Haven't had basic American history yet.
2. Actually bought the garbage some teacher did give you while calling it "history."
3. Weren't paying attention that day in class.

Given you can't figure out which clause I'm talking about when you're the one who brought it up in the first place, I'm at a loss as to how to react to you. But how can you think anyone is erring when you don't even know the basics of the premise to begin with?
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#63
Nov 24, 2012
30,727
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#63
bondservant said:
Thank you jgig for your post I was about to loose it . I agree that the law just like God is never changing. I posted a short teaching on Matt chapter 5 on a thread a couple of days ago. I see a lot of saints here thinking that the law was changed by Jesus in some way and I thought that maybe they misread this chapter. The law that I see always had grace and mercy in it as with the law giver God. It was the teaching of the law that was perverted.
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The law came without mercy but demanded justice.
It was gracious only in the fact that it reveals sin but it gave no power to man for keeping the law.
As a general cohesive for society, it gives direction for a sound society (10 Commandments)
 
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atwhatcost

Guest
#65
#65
bondservant said:
Ok here is where I have a senior moment, l keep hearing that the law has changed in the new testament, or Jesus had changed it or destroyed it or it does not apply, so possessed tell me how and if the law changed and why.
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::::::::::Offering bondservant my spare old-folks' rocker, complete with cat and lap blanket.:::::::::::::::
 
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bondservant

Guest
#67
#67
Crossnote (oops there goes the cat thanks Lynn) what is Jesus doing in Matt chapter 5 when he talks about the law?
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#68
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#68
Angela53510 said:
You need to read the rest of the book of John. Jesus has always been!

"Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” John 8:58
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I have read the entire book....too many times to count and your point is moot.....Jesus was clear....the prophets desired to see what the disciples were seeing and did not see those things and the following are true....

1. The LAW came by MOSES
2. Grace and truth came BY JESUS
3. Jesus has always been and the FATHER was reconciling the world unto himself before it was cast down..

BUT...that does not change the fact that the revealed grace of GOD in Christ was not REVEALED fully UNTIL THE N.T......and in the PARTICULAR name of JESUS........
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#69
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#69
Is said:
When you replied to Angela with

"John 1:17...................<--------What does that say about the law and grace and who gave and brought what!"

when she said God was grace in the OT, that looked like you were making the point it was only Jesus that had grace.


verse 16 mentions "fullness" and that is what Jesus was, he was the fullness of Gods Grace and He was the "rock" in the OT..
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I agree and my point stands.....the grace of God was not fully realized until the N.T. and in the face and personage of JESUS.......even the O.T. prophets desired to see the things which the disciples were seeing, but it had been hidden to some extent and that is the point I was making!
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#70
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#70
crossnote said:
Hey DC, slip me a couple hundred and I'll help you ward off these sharp female theologians..HAHAHAHA
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Funny guy HAHAHAH ....... make no mistake as I am not threatened by anyone on this site ;)
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#71
Nov 24, 2012
30,727
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#71
bondservant said:
Crossnote (oops there goes the cat thanks Lynn) what is Jesus doing in Matt chapter 5 when he talks about the law?
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Jesus was revealing what true heart obedience was in obeying the spirit of the law. That law is a reflection of God's nature which is now written in our hearts as born again believers and can be summed up in loving God and others. Hope that helps.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#72
Nov 24, 2012
30,727
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#72
dcontroversal said:
Funny guy HAHAHAH ....... make no mistake as I am not threatened by anyone on this site ;)
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Ok, you had me fooled, for a sec it looked like the gals were getting the best of ya. ;)
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#73
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#73
crossnote said:
Ok, you had me fooled, for a sec it looked like the gals were getting the best of ya. ;)
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Nah...I just wasnt on the pc to respond.......and at the end of the day all I did was quote a direct verse that John wrote under inspiration............... ad what I said was correct.....no where have I ever said that you cannot find grace and mercy cannot be found in the O.T. because they both can....but it was not fully realized until the N.T........
 
just-me

just-me

Banned
#74
Mar 4, 2013
7,761
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0
#74
crossnote said:
The law came without mercy but demanded justice.
It was gracious only in the fact that it reveals sin but it gave no power to man for keeping the law.
As a general cohesive for society, it gives direction for a sound society (10 Commandments)
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Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. Matthew 23:23

I believe what Jesus said opposed to your comment. :)
 
GandalfTheWhite

GandalfTheWhite

Senior Member
#75
Jan 25, 2015
9,213
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#75
crossnote said:
The law came without mercy but demanded justice.
It was gracious only in the fact that it reveals sin but it gave no power to man for keeping the law.
As a general cohesive for society, it gives direction for a sound society (10 Commandments)
Click to expand...
Friend, how can we believe that the law came without mercy if we see the account of Rahab the prostitute or the many times God forgave Israel for their transgressions? Surely if we read the OT we can see God's grace even while they were keeping the law?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#76
#76
KennethC said:
Yes grace is above the law, but we can not forget about what the Levitical priesthood was about in that equation.
For because of their love for God they were charged to carry (hold) the law, just like we are told in the NT that by walking in love the law is upheld.

For it is not about following them as a set of ordinances, but following them as a everyday way of live do to love !!!
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Yet don't look at them or you will die.

Why do the legalists never get the point?

The law was not given to make you a righteous person, or show you how to be good. it was given to show you how sinful you really are.

LOVE shows us how to live a life of righteousness. The law never could, never did, and never will do that.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#77
#77
there were three things which were put in the ark.

1. The stones of the law
2. Arron's rod which budded
3. mannah

all three represented things God have against the people

1. We have broke the law
2. We did not heed Gods commands, even when he supplied our daily bread
3. Proof that we complained continuously about Gods plan for our lives even the leaders God placed over us.

The mercy seat was where the blood was sprinkled over, so when the cherub looked at the ark, they could not see the things which God had against mankind all the could see was the blood of the sacrifice.

in other words. everything God had against us, was contrary to us, was covered by the blood of the innocent animal that was sacrificed once a year on the day of atonement.

As paul said, Jesus became our high priest, as he spilt his blood to do the same for us.

Colossians 2:14
having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

Of course, colossians would only be talking about the law. not the rod or manna, since only the law condemns whoever does not confirm and obey every word written.
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#78
Sep 4, 2013
30,427
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#78
I love how my Bible is shrinking with each passing day. One day soon, the way things are going, I will be able to read my entire Bible in just a matter of hours.

:)

Let's see. Hmm, well, all the Books of the Old Testament dealing with the peoples of the earth before the Law was given can be kept, for they would have a Historical value worthy of reading, but no actual value/importance to the Church today as the New Covenant Grace was not in place. All of the Books of the OT which record Gods interactions with the Nation of Israel AFTER the Law was given can be ripped out and discarded, for they do not have any bearing on the New Covenant Church. I suppose we could "edit" some of them that include prophecies of the coming Savior, for these prophecies would have Historical value as well.

We can rip out and discard the Four Gospels, because (as some here teach) they are recordings of Jesus speaking to the Nation of Israel, and the New Covenant was not yet established for He had not yet been resurrected. Thus those teachings are not for the New Covenant Church. Although, I have to wonder why so many of the Church today adhere to many of the teachings found in the Four Gospels? Such as baptism, Communion and such, I mean, after all.......... :) Also have to wonder why the Apostles continued to teach from the Gospel of Christ recorded in the Four Gospels.........if His Gospel was not for the New Covenant Church? Anyway, we can rip them out and discard them.

I'm thinking we are down to the Book of Acts, but it is simply a Historical Record of the establishment of the New Covenant Church, however ------ we should probably keep it in. The Epistles of Paul appear to be in question though. Some believe him to be a "false Apostle." Others believe his writings were not for ALL the Church, and some of his writings probably were not for ALL the Church today. I suppose we could appoint a Council of Elders to "EDIT" his Epistles to reveal ONLY the teachings that are relevant to the New Covenant Church today. Would probably have to do the same with the Epistles of John, Peter and James just to be safe.

I'm thinking we can keep Hebrews, as it appears to be "generic" in it's address, and probably the Epistle of Jude. Then, of course, there is Revelation. Guess we should keep it as well.

Once we are through, my goodness, how much smaller will my Bible be!
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#79
#79
I love the sarcasm of people who are so afraid to let go of things they must mock anyone who disagrees with them.

Oh and by the way,

"do not commit adultry"

Now I have no desire to do this, I love my wife, and would never think of doing it. But According to many in here

1. I better read it every day or I will be tempted (even though in reality, if I read it every day, it will be on my mind every day, that alone is enough for satan to use it to tempt me)
2. I better read it every day so I know HOW TO OBEY the command (even though in reality, the command does not say how to do it, it just says do not do it.

then again, I have a question, if my mind is so focused on obeying all these commands, and reading them and contemplating on them day after day after day.

When do I have time to start thinking about loving others, and what God wants me to do for my family, my co-workers, my friends, and people I have not met yet. studying things which are far more important in my current walk of life.

oh and one more thing, when do I get to the point that I see the commands I continually fail in, and start to ignore those commands, and start puffing myself up because I obey they set of commands over here (to make myself feel better because I fail at those over there)

oh legalism, and its stain on the christain way of life.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#80
Nov 24, 2012
30,727
3,661
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#80
just-me said:
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. Matthew 23:23

I believe what Jesus said opposed to your comment. :)
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Your insertion of larger fonts twists the reading; it should read like "weightier matters of the law and judgment and mercy and faith", nice try.
 
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