Disproving Biblical Infallibility 101

[DisciplePAG]

I mentioned that the aorist participle καταβὰς is distributive; and effects the other aorists in the verse.


2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.

Hence the verse may be read:

And behold, there had been an earthquake: for (because) the angel of the Lord had descendedfrom heaven, and had come and rolled back the stone from the door, and had sat upon it.

^^^ That in no way alters the fact that there are a ton of other points that do not agree- the number of angels present, the location of th angel when speakin , not to mention the sequence of events occuring after they left the tomb to speak to the others...

It is a basic premise of sound Bible interpretation that Scripture does NOT contradict Scripture; and when there is an apparent contradiction, we must seek another reading which is both consistent with common usage and idiom; and which resolves the apparent conflict. There will ALWAYS be one.

^^^ That CANNOT reasonably apply here, as it is truely self evident that the scriptures do contradict each other in this instance. Read the account in Matthew, and read John. Actually take a pencil and sketch it out. THEN come back prepared to make defining statements. If you are unwilling to acknowledge a basic truth such as the differences in the ressurection story i would respectfully ask you to no longer post on this thread. Many know these truths to be self evident and are actively seeking meaningful discussion on the topic. Thank you.

 

[DisciplePAG]

Forgive me if this seems ignorant:

If you admit to defaulting to faith alone, especially if due to the fallibility of the narratives, then what is the point and purpose here?
Hopefully i can help find the answer to the doctrinal differences we face- namely that there should be none due to erroneously recorded scriptures, which to bear record of the truth, albeit in a flawed manner.

Also, you said it's apparent that we cannot trust the accounts from the 4 gospels; What do you establish your faith on in regards to the resurrection, then?

My experience with the Holy Spirit, my joy, my heart. I have faith. I do not need a book to have faith. Paul had it without the New Testament, so did Peter and John, so did many many others!

 

[phil36]

My experience with the Holy Spirit, my joy, my heart. I have faith. I do not need a book to have faith. Paul had it without the New Testament, so did Peter and John, so did many many others!

Then you have nothing to base your faith on..it might aswell be the tooth fairy,

 

[DisciplePAG]

Actually, I've read the Bible often and now study it. There's a lot more to the resurrection scene than most notice, even PAG. Even you. Put the four accounts together and see how they differ. Unless you can get someone who really can put all the pieces together, you're not going to get it. PAG didn't even noticed he missed other questions that ought to be asked too.

Suffice it to say i posted a general group of questions, never intending to lay bare every last discrepancy.

And the proof is everyone has a theory here, yet no one answered the question directly. You just passed it off to Marc, and Marc just explained one small part of one account.

So really? Many times I ask questions on here and don't get clear answers. Most people just give opinions. So, nothing wrong with asking more than once. And nothing wrong with answering only if you have a real answer.

I would appreciate a real answer actually. An honest answer.

 

[DisciplePAG]

Then you have nothing to base your faith on..it might aswell be the tooth fairy,

MY FAITH IS BASED ON THE UNSEEN. I NEED NOTHING TO "PROVE" God...i have ....faith!

 

[DisciplePAG]

Okay? So what do you think of what Boice had to say? Cool, huh?

Or are you here just to prove we aren't very knowledgeable either? If that's the case, big deal. But how do YOU deal with what Boice said? If you aren't busy figuring out how to read that book to find answers (many of which are question you haven't even figured out ought to be questions about the resurrection), then this is just wasted time, and you aren't really interested in learning the truth.

Bad news! I gave you a source to get the full answer already, so even if you lose another password and the folks behind CC don't get back to you on remembering what that password was, you were already handed the answer to your question.

Keep playing games like this and all it shows me is you weren't all that serious about getting real answers.

Forgiving you for being short with me is easy- but just because i ask a question YOU cant answer does NOT give you the right to cut though!!

 

[phil36]

MY FAITH IS BASED ON THE UNSEEN. I NEED NOTHING TO "PROVE" God...i have ....faith!

Can you answer this very simple question:::: What god?

 

[Elin]

Im bringing the discussion to the table brother- nothing else is intended here. I want the whole truth- i want closure, but thats a deep rabbit hole, because when we open this box it opens another and another and another. Many of you just do not have the fortitudes to stomach such a quest...which is sad. I for one, WILL stomach it. I WILL find the black and white in a VERY gray discussion. If your not going to add to this discussion by getting with the program and being honest about the situation, the please, do NOT eat up valuable time and space with your spatter. Relieve yourself from this post please. We ARE to debate scripture, and this NEEDS to be debated because
i have a valid discussion point founded in truth. Address my OP please.

It's been addressed and you've been informed of a good source to consult.

You don't want the accounts to agree, you would rather they not, though it has been shown that they do.

 

[DisciplePAG]

The people were so in awe of what transpired they were unable to gather their thoughts completely accurately, yet the bottom line remains the same, Christ is Risen. The Disciples were killed for their testimonies; Peter allowed himself to be crucified upside down for crying out loud. If Christ's Resurrection did not happen don't you think they would have fessed up? Christ is Risen! Deal with it!

You do speak of innacuracy. How revealing. Of course it's inaccurately written- otherwise i would not put myself in this position!?? So since we share the proof that it is innacurate, please answer my OP!

 

[Elin]

You do speak of innacuracy. How revealing.
Of course it's inaccurately written- otherwise i would not put myself in this position!??

Get informed on the matter. . .

 

[DisciplePAG]

It's been addressed and you've been informed of a good source to consult.

Are you serious? THE BIBLE is my ONLY source! I dont need men to tell me how to interpret anything or try to explain things away- anyone who speaks common english knows these scriptures disagree,^^^read the whole post, almost every last one of these people agree in some form that there are differences... your unwillingness to speak honestly about anything at all is appaling actually. Please get off my post.

You don't want the accounts to agree, you would rather they not, though it has been shown that they do.

Oh how i wish the scriptures did 100% agree, yet they do not, and the fact that you state such obtuse lies is actually infuriating- you would rather defend a lie position rather than take 10 minutes to READ MATTHEW AND JOHNS ACCOUNT....anyone who can read and is moderately comprehensive can see plainly that they do grossly err from each other!??

 

[Elin]

^^^ That CANNOT reasonably apply here,

So your view overrides the rules of Greek grammar. . .that explains a lot.

 

[Elin]

My experience with the Holy Spirit, my joy, my heart. I have faith.
I do not need a book to have faith.
Paul had it without the New Testament, so did Peter and John, so did many many others!

Whoa! . . .say no more, that explains it all.

 

[DisciplePAG]

Can you answer this very simple question:::: What god?

The one God, the one who causes tears of joy to stream down my face as i stand witnessing and preaching the gospel of Jesus on the courthouse steps ...where i was initially condemned and sentenced to a LONG prison sentence....The same God that found a way to preserve and restore my family, restored my relationships, blessed me with another child, and called me to change the lives of addicts all over this nation after i was released years ago.

The same God who comforts me and gives me the presence of A Holy Spirit- see, i feel His presence. Its tangible and real to me-

Thank you for asking that question.

 

[Elin]

Oh how i wish the scriptures did 100% agree, yet they do not, and the fact that you state such obtuse lies is actually infuriating-
you would rather defend a lie position rather than take 10 minutes to READ MATTHEW AND JOHNS ACCOUNT....

So all knowing are you without the Bible that you even know what I have read therein.

Keep talking. . .your fantasy is showing.

anyone who can read and is moderately comprehensive can see plainly that they do grossly err from each other!??

And anyone who has eyes that can see is able to see that they are not.

 

[DisciplePAG]

Get informed on the matter. . .

It seems as though i am the one doing the "informing" here. Im the one who has scripturally PROVEN the bible to be fallible- yet your stiffnecked and refuse to admit basic truths. I actually feel sorry for you...you are so blind and really have no clue...

 

[DisciplePAG]

Whoa! . . .say no more, that explains it all.

Are you telling me I CANNOT have faith to believe in God without reading the "bible"??

 

[Elin]

It seems as though i am the one doing the "informing" here. Im the one who has scripturally PROVEN the bible to be fallible- yet your stiffnecked and refuse to admit basic truths. I actually feel sorry for you...you are so blind and really have no clue...

Physician, heal thyself.

 

[DisciplePAG]

ELIN PLEASE GET OFF MY POST.

 

[Elin]

It seems as though i am the one doing the "informing" here.
Im the one who has scripturally PROVEN the bible to be fallible- yet
your stiffnecked and refuse to admit basic truths. I actually feel sorry for you...
you are so blind and really have no clue...

Physician, heal thyself. . .