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S
Verse 16 clarifies who this 'catching up' is referring to and it is those who are 'in Christ' whether they be dead or alive.
16 'For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first'
Reading the book of Ephesians and Colossians, you find that those who are 'in Christ' refers to the 'church' and 'body of Christ'. No other place in scripture does the term 'in Christ' refer to any other group, not even the tribulation saints. This term is unique to the church and 'body of Christ'. The OT saints where not members of Christ's body and the term 'body of Christ' is not used for any of the tribulation saints as well. You will not find that term describing any of the saints in the book of Revelation and you better not add it either. The only saints (made of both Jews and Gentiles, as the elect of God or those who are in Christ) that 1Thes 4:16,17 is referring to as being 'caught up', is the 'church' and 'body of Christ' who Christ is the head.
None of the OT saints will be part of this 'catching up', rapture, ascension or resurrection from the dead. Only those that are 'in Christ' will ascend to meet the Lord in the air, and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Is God a respecter of persons, NO! It's His plan, His Body, His church and His possession to do as He sees fit. This advent of the church being 'caught up' in the rapture, marks the beginning of the (7) year period of the great tribulation. This catching up of the church will be done decently and in order with no confusion, though a strong delusion may come later as to what happened (that was for MahoganySnail's sake). Some should stop trying to force the hand of God to make the 'church' have to go through a time of great tribulation that He has not appointed or ordained for those believers who are 'in Christ' and make up the dispensation of the church. If any would trust the written word they would see the plan and purpose of God in relationship to the church, His body in Eph 1:9-14, Eph 3:1-6, Col 1:24-29, Rev 3:10.
We also know that every believer that makes up the (7) churches in Rev 1-3 are all 'in Christ'. All these believers are kept by the power of god and the word of His patience / 1Pt 1:5.
Rev 3:10 'Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.'
When there is a fire on the stove and your child is tempted to draw his hand toward the heat of the flame, you grab them and keep them from the flame so they don't get burned. The church will begin to feel the heat of the hour of temptation and the Lord will appear on the scene in the clouds of the air and the voice of the trumpet will call them away and take them up into heaven, keeping them from the fierce flames of the great tribulation that will come upon the earth.
Hour of temptation has to do with the lusts of men, whose hearts have little or no restraint to satisfy the desires of the flesh and of the mind in a reckless and negligent manner. This will describe much of the world that comes under this hour of temptation through the mystery of iniquity, which is already at work / 2Thes 2:7. Man will be tempted beyond measure and have no desire for restraint. 2Tim 3:1-9 describes the perilous times that will come upon the inhabitants of the earth and describe the condition of man's heart prior to and during the time that Christ comes for His church.
The chaos that will be upon the earth when the church is taken up will be the condition and manifestation of man's heart being expressed toward one another under a system of evil that Satan controls as the prince and power of the air / Eph 2:2, who represents his own authority as the god of this world / 2Cor 4:4. This hour of temptation turns into great tribulation for those that inhabit the earth / Rev 12:9. The wrath of Satan will be toward the remnant that have the testimony of Jesus Christ and the wrath of God will follow and consummate at the battle of Armageddon against the children of disobedience, with the vial of the (100) lb hailstones being poured out into the air, and Babylon being destroyed/ Rev 16-18. The church, who will be among those that dwell in heaven, will be rejoicing at this great sight / Rev 12:12, 18:20.
16 'For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first'
Reading the book of Ephesians and Colossians, you find that those who are 'in Christ' refers to the 'church' and 'body of Christ'. No other place in scripture does the term 'in Christ' refer to any other group, not even the tribulation saints. This term is unique to the church and 'body of Christ'. The OT saints where not members of Christ's body and the term 'body of Christ' is not used for any of the tribulation saints as well. You will not find that term describing any of the saints in the book of Revelation and you better not add it either. The only saints (made of both Jews and Gentiles, as the elect of God or those who are in Christ) that 1Thes 4:16,17 is referring to as being 'caught up', is the 'church' and 'body of Christ' who Christ is the head.
None of the OT saints will be part of this 'catching up', rapture, ascension or resurrection from the dead. Only those that are 'in Christ' will ascend to meet the Lord in the air, and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Is God a respecter of persons, NO! It's His plan, His Body, His church and His possession to do as He sees fit. This advent of the church being 'caught up' in the rapture, marks the beginning of the (7) year period of the great tribulation. This catching up of the church will be done decently and in order with no confusion, though a strong delusion may come later as to what happened (that was for MahoganySnail's sake). Some should stop trying to force the hand of God to make the 'church' have to go through a time of great tribulation that He has not appointed or ordained for those believers who are 'in Christ' and make up the dispensation of the church. If any would trust the written word they would see the plan and purpose of God in relationship to the church, His body in Eph 1:9-14, Eph 3:1-6, Col 1:24-29, Rev 3:10.
We also know that every believer that makes up the (7) churches in Rev 1-3 are all 'in Christ'. All these believers are kept by the power of god and the word of His patience / 1Pt 1:5.
Rev 3:10 'Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.'
When there is a fire on the stove and your child is tempted to draw his hand toward the heat of the flame, you grab them and keep them from the flame so they don't get burned. The church will begin to feel the heat of the hour of temptation and the Lord will appear on the scene in the clouds of the air and the voice of the trumpet will call them away and take them up into heaven, keeping them from the fierce flames of the great tribulation that will come upon the earth.
Hour of temptation has to do with the lusts of men, whose hearts have little or no restraint to satisfy the desires of the flesh and of the mind in a reckless and negligent manner. This will describe much of the world that comes under this hour of temptation through the mystery of iniquity, which is already at work / 2Thes 2:7. Man will be tempted beyond measure and have no desire for restraint. 2Tim 3:1-9 describes the perilous times that will come upon the inhabitants of the earth and describe the condition of man's heart prior to and during the time that Christ comes for His church.
The chaos that will be upon the earth when the church is taken up will be the condition and manifestation of man's heart being expressed toward one another under a system of evil that Satan controls as the prince and power of the air / Eph 2:2, who represents his own authority as the god of this world / 2Cor 4:4. This hour of temptation turns into great tribulation for those that inhabit the earth / Rev 12:9. The wrath of Satan will be toward the remnant that have the testimony of Jesus Christ and the wrath of God will follow and consummate at the battle of Armageddon against the children of disobedience, with the vial of the (100) lb hailstones being poured out into the air, and Babylon being destroyed/ Rev 16-18. The church, who will be among those that dwell in heaven, will be rejoicing at this great sight / Rev 12:12, 18:20.
A
I am not much of an bible expert as far as being able to pull out random quotes instantly in the middle of an argument but I have read and heard alot about the rapture. I have accepted the Lord in my life and have tried hard to live in a good christian way and if I am to be saved from the Tribulation I'm not going to argue against that. But my concern is that belief in the rapture is putting many people in a stand down state of mind. We must rise up and fight the New World Order, the creation of a one world government, the setting up of the cashless society that will lead to the mark of the beast being required for all buying and selling. Instead of not getting involed and thinking that it doesn't matter because we will all be lifted up into heaven before things get really bad is the wrong attitude. We must educate people on the real plan behind global government, explain to them why strong soverign countires are the way to go, tell them the real reason behind the Federal Reserve and the I.M.F. the United Nations and Planned Parenthood. Distrube real films like Endgame, Fall of the Republic and Terrorstorm. Explain why the seperation of church and state is so important. We all need to stand up and fight this incroaching evil not sit around waiting for the rapture. God Bless.
who says that the 144,000 is talking of literal Jews?
where in Revelation does it say that this 144,000 is literal?
here's some more info on these 144,000...
Rev 14:1 Then I looked, and behold, on Mount Zion stood the Lamb, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads.
Rev 14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven like the roar of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder. The voice I heard was like the sound of harpists playing on their harps,
Rev 14:3 and they were singing a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and before the elders. No one could learn that song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth.
Rev 14:4 It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins. It is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. These have been redeemed from mankind as firstfruits for God and the Lamb,
Rev 14:5 and in their mouth no lie was found, for they are blameless.
Rev 7:1 After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth, that no wind might blow on earth or sea or against any tree.
Rev 7:2 Then I saw another angel ascending from the rising of the sun, with the seal of the living God, and he called with a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm earth and sea,
Rev 7:3 saying, "Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads."
Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of the sealed, 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:
Rev 7:5 12,000 from the tribe of Judah were sealed, 12,000 from the tribe of Reuben, 12,000 from the tribe of Gad,
Rev 7:6 12,000 from the tribe of Asher, 12,000 from the tribe of Naphtali, 12,000 from the tribe of Manasseh,
Rev 7:7 12,000 from the tribe of Simeon, 12,000 from the tribe of Levi, 12,000 from the tribe of Issachar,
Rev 7:8 12,000 from the tribe of Zebulun, 12,000 from the tribe of Joseph, 12,000 from the tribe of Benjamin were sealed.
of course, if we take the dispensational or pre-tribulational way of interpretation, this would be taken in the most literal way possible: all 144,000 are males and males only... only the thing to realize here is that this is not the complete list of the tribes... if it were a list of the literal tribes of Israel, then Rueben would be listed first, because he was the first born, but it's not... Judah is listed first. #2 on the list would be Ephraim, but he was left out. Dan was also left out, while Joseph has been included... however, there is no tribe of Joseph. Joseph gave his inheritance to his two sons, Ephraim and Manasseh. we see Manasseh in the list, but not Ephraim. Levi has been included, however Levi is not a tribe; they were proests, and had no inheritance to land, so they could not be a tribe.
the first listed in this list is Judah... Christ came from the tribe of Judah. every name that is listed here is a description of Jesus Christ. Christ himself said in John 15:5-6
Joh 15:5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.
Joh 15:6 If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned.
this is the family of God... the Israel of God, those who are a new creation in Christ (Gal. 6:15-16), not physical Jews, but spiritual Jews, those transformed by the spirit, not by the letter (Romans 2:28-29), and this includes both Jew and Gentile (Gal. 3:26-29, Col. 3:11) for through Jesus Christ, we are made one (Eph. 2:11-22), for Christ is the vine, and we have been grafted in, and we can be taken out just as easily (Romans 11)
the numbers themselves carry a LOT of symbolism... we see the number 12 a LOT in the Bible... 12 tribes of Israel, 12, 000 of each tribe, 12 gates to New Jerusalem, the measures of New Jerusalem being 12,000 x 12,000 x 12,000, 12 foundations for New Jerusalem, and a gem on each foundation, so 12 gems in all, 12 apostles... i can go on, and on... this is NOT a literal number... this is symbolic... and John didn't see this with his eyes; he heard it.
where in Revelation does it say that this 144,000 is literal?
here's some more info on these 144,000...
Rev 14:1 Then I looked, and behold, on Mount Zion stood the Lamb, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads.
Rev 14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven like the roar of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder. The voice I heard was like the sound of harpists playing on their harps,
Rev 14:3 and they were singing a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and before the elders. No one could learn that song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth.
Rev 14:4 It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins. It is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. These have been redeemed from mankind as firstfruits for God and the Lamb,
Rev 14:5 and in their mouth no lie was found, for they are blameless.
Rev 7:1 After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth, that no wind might blow on earth or sea or against any tree.
Rev 7:2 Then I saw another angel ascending from the rising of the sun, with the seal of the living God, and he called with a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm earth and sea,
Rev 7:3 saying, "Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads."
Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of the sealed, 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:
Rev 7:5 12,000 from the tribe of Judah were sealed, 12,000 from the tribe of Reuben, 12,000 from the tribe of Gad,
Rev 7:6 12,000 from the tribe of Asher, 12,000 from the tribe of Naphtali, 12,000 from the tribe of Manasseh,
Rev 7:7 12,000 from the tribe of Simeon, 12,000 from the tribe of Levi, 12,000 from the tribe of Issachar,
Rev 7:8 12,000 from the tribe of Zebulun, 12,000 from the tribe of Joseph, 12,000 from the tribe of Benjamin were sealed.
of course, if we take the dispensational or pre-tribulational way of interpretation, this would be taken in the most literal way possible: all 144,000 are males and males only... only the thing to realize here is that this is not the complete list of the tribes... if it were a list of the literal tribes of Israel, then Rueben would be listed first, because he was the first born, but it's not... Judah is listed first. #2 on the list would be Ephraim, but he was left out. Dan was also left out, while Joseph has been included... however, there is no tribe of Joseph. Joseph gave his inheritance to his two sons, Ephraim and Manasseh. we see Manasseh in the list, but not Ephraim. Levi has been included, however Levi is not a tribe; they were proests, and had no inheritance to land, so they could not be a tribe.
the first listed in this list is Judah... Christ came from the tribe of Judah. every name that is listed here is a description of Jesus Christ. Christ himself said in John 15:5-6
Joh 15:5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.
Joh 15:6 If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned.
this is the family of God... the Israel of God, those who are a new creation in Christ (Gal. 6:15-16), not physical Jews, but spiritual Jews, those transformed by the spirit, not by the letter (Romans 2:28-29), and this includes both Jew and Gentile (Gal. 3:26-29, Col. 3:11) for through Jesus Christ, we are made one (Eph. 2:11-22), for Christ is the vine, and we have been grafted in, and we can be taken out just as easily (Romans 11)
the numbers themselves carry a LOT of symbolism... we see the number 12 a LOT in the Bible... 12 tribes of Israel, 12, 000 of each tribe, 12 gates to New Jerusalem, the measures of New Jerusalem being 12,000 x 12,000 x 12,000, 12 foundations for New Jerusalem, and a gem on each foundation, so 12 gems in all, 12 apostles... i can go on, and on... this is NOT a literal number... this is symbolic... and John didn't see this with his eyes; he heard it.
BTW
DANIELS SPEAKS ABOUT THE 144,000 TO CONFIRM REVELATIONS
BUT
as I continue to read YOUR ARGUMENTS FOR NO RAPTURE it brings me back to the days when I would travel like I still do to some degree but back then when you would exit the plane and begin your walk to your luggage and exit you would be bombarded by men with shaved heads, wearing a dress like outfit, holding flowers, and preaching A LOAD OF CRAP.
The difference between them and you who are cramming this NO RAPTURE IDEA is that
most of them did it because back then women would seek them out for their pleasures because they were considered
SENSITIVE MEN
BUT YOU
your just fulfilling scripture that in the LAST DAYS
will appear
NEW IDEAS
NEW TEACHINGS
NEW TWIST
FALSE PROPHETS
that in some cases EVEN THE VERY ELECT will believe A LIE and fall from GOD
IT ONLY TAKES ONE ISSUE TO BEGIN SPREADING A LIE ABOUT
BEFORE
YOU BECOME AWARE
ON OTHER SUBJECTS THEY ARE CREATING MORE LIES
MY SUGGESTION FOR ALL THOSE WHO OPPOSE
MIKTRE-ZILLA-AND OTHERS WHO PREACH
NO RAPTURE
GO BACK AND FOLLOW ALL OF THE REST OF THEIR POSTS IN OTHER SUBJECTS
AND IF THEY CONTINUE TO NOT LIGN UP
THEN
YOU WILL KNOW
WHO THESE INDIVIDUALS REALLY ARE
I HAVE AND THEY ARE EITHER OFF ON ALOT OF ISSUES
OR
JUST FLAT OUT SPREADING NEW FALSE LIES AND IDEAS
EITHER WAY
I AM NOW WELL AWARE OF THEM
DANIELS SPEAKS ABOUT THE 144,000 TO CONFIRM REVELATIONS
BUT
as I continue to read YOUR ARGUMENTS FOR NO RAPTURE it brings me back to the days when I would travel like I still do to some degree but back then when you would exit the plane and begin your walk to your luggage and exit you would be bombarded by men with shaved heads, wearing a dress like outfit, holding flowers, and preaching A LOAD OF CRAP.
The difference between them and you who are cramming this NO RAPTURE IDEA is that
most of them did it because back then women would seek them out for their pleasures because they were considered
SENSITIVE MEN
BUT YOU
your just fulfilling scripture that in the LAST DAYS
will appear
NEW IDEAS
NEW TEACHINGS
NEW TWIST
FALSE PROPHETS
that in some cases EVEN THE VERY ELECT will believe A LIE and fall from GOD
IT ONLY TAKES ONE ISSUE TO BEGIN SPREADING A LIE ABOUT
BEFORE
YOU BECOME AWARE
ON OTHER SUBJECTS THEY ARE CREATING MORE LIES
MY SUGGESTION FOR ALL THOSE WHO OPPOSE
MIKTRE-ZILLA-AND OTHERS WHO PREACH
NO RAPTURE
GO BACK AND FOLLOW ALL OF THE REST OF THEIR POSTS IN OTHER SUBJECTS
AND IF THEY CONTINUE TO NOT LIGN UP
THEN
YOU WILL KNOW
WHO THESE INDIVIDUALS REALLY ARE
I HAVE AND THEY ARE EITHER OFF ON ALOT OF ISSUES
OR
JUST FLAT OUT SPREADING NEW FALSE LIES AND IDEAS
EITHER WAY
I AM NOW WELL AWARE OF THEM
M
Sorry dude, the scripture itself does your false doctrine in and one day this truth will ring loud in your ears, when you stand before Christ Himself. We provide scripture after scripture and I for one shall always speak out against the satanic lie that is called rapture, it only leads God's children to the false christ.
M
Once again you've taken the simplicity of the teaching and totally corrupted it with your lies. The rapturist must constantly do this to keep the satanic lie going. You want to believe this lie soo bad there are no lengths you are not willing to go to and no lie you are not willing to tell. You will be held accountable for your lying tongue.
CHRIST warned us enough to know that I will be deceived by you if I believe
and to answer you question about how many years have they been preaching about TRIBULATION and RAPTURE
WELL
My Grandfather who was saved thru the ministry of G.T. Haywood at 18 when G.T. was in his 50's
and then my Grandfather became an Pastor and evangelist in 1920
SO take G.T. Haywood
who wrote the song in your hymnals "CRIMSON STREAM OF BLOOD"
He heard it preached when he was saved so that brings us to atleast the past
200 years
and now your new doctrine
IS THE FIRST TIME EVER
I heard it
and I am 41
SO YES
you are fulfilling scripture with false doctrine and ideas based upon your personal views about what you WANT THE SCRIPTURES to say.
IN FACT
you are soo adimant about it
your claiming like they did to JESUS about mine and those who view similar to mine
THAT WE ARE
of SATAN
WOOOOOHOOOOOOO
GO AHEAD
DRIVE THEM NAILS DEEPER BOY
NAIL US TO THE CROSS
YOU RELIGIOUS ZEALOUT