Disproving Biblical Infallibility 101

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Jan 19, 2013
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This is your biblical response to Elin? That many agree with you thus.....etc. Many people agreed with killing Jesus on a cross too. Many more than agree with you I guess based on this logic, they are even more right than you. The thing is you need to stay in the Word in reflecting your doubts of the Word. It sounds like a weird answer but it's the right one. This isn't about proof hence belief becomes worthy, it's a matter of faith; then understanding becomes visible.

I don't agree with anyone who says scripture will never be completely provable,
Oh, it can be proven alright. . .air-tight convincingly so. . .but not by human reason and "critical thinking" as he requires, so it cannot be proven to him according to his parameters, which are all that he has access to.

so we need to just except it anyway ...because God does back truth up, even when we can't understand all of His depths we can be clear of His Word. Otherwise Proverbs 30:5 would be a lie, and I believe it to be true, "Every Word of God proves true." These debates on the fallibility of God's Word are not new to history, many have expounded on the many difficulties in scripture to understand, So search! Many are wiser than me and internets are a great tool to find out others work already done. Anything I would know I would share but I am a limited man, but it's out there. Every Word of it. Seek with all your heart and mind and soul...and it will be given you!
 
Jan 19, 2013
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I haven't read this whole thread, but I found no infallibility in what your initial post stated.
There were 2 angels at the tomb. Matthew 28:5-6 quotes one angel who spoke to the women outside of the tomb, saying; "He is not here... come see". Mark 16:5 quotes another angel inside the sepulcher who told the women; "He is risen...go tell his disciples". But Luke 24:4 and John 20:12 both confirm there were 2 angels at the tomb.

A partial report is not a false report. Just because each gospel author doesn’t report every detail of a story doesn’t mean it’s inaccurate. A divergent account is not a false account. For example, Matthew speaks of one angel at Christ’s tomb whereas John mentions two. A contradiction? Not at all. Simple math says if you have two, you also have one. Matthew did not say there was only one angel; if he had then we would have a true contradiction. Instead, he just records the words of the one who spoke.

And that is true regarding all the discrepancies which he thinks are a clinching argument.

He doesn't know the difference between immaterial discrepancies and contradictions, and does not want to know.

He is so entrenched in his "critical thinking" that he is blind to and denies evidence to the contrary.

Only God can free him from this and give him the light of conviction regarding the truth of the Scriptures.

The same critics who try and point out contradictions in the gospels would no doubt cry 'collusion' if they found exact verbal parallelism and a singular account of the resurrection.
Yep. . .they are blindly locked in a catch-22.

The recordings of the resurrection found in the four gospels are found to harmonize quite well upon closer examination.
  1. An angel rolls away stone from tomb before sunrise (Matt. 28:2-4). The guards are seized with fear and eventually flee
  2. Women disciples visit the tomb and discover Christ missing (Matt. 28:1; Mark 16:1-4; Luke 24:1-3; John 20:1)
  3. Mary Magdalene leaves to tell Peter and John (John 20:1-2)
  4. Other women remain at tomb; they see two angels who tell them of Christ’s resurrection (Matt. 18:5-7, Mark 16:5-7, Luke 24:4-8)
  5. Peter and John run to the tomb and then leave (Luke 24:12; John 20:3-10)
  6. Mary Magdalene returns to the tomb; She see's 2 angels standing at the head and feet of where the body had lain (John 20:12). Christ appears to her (Mark 16:9-11; John 20:11-18).
  7. Jesus appears to the other women (Mary, mother of James, Salome, and Joanna) (Matt. 28:8-10).
The fact that John only mentions Mary Magdalene going to the tomb is not a contradiction, because its true. John chose to just focus on Mary Magdalene, but failing to mention the other women does not constitute a contradiction or even a discrepancy. Mark mentions 3 women, Luke just specifies women, and Matthew mentioned the 2 Mary's. Having something mentioned in one gospel but not another does not constitute a contradiction. Now if one gospel said that 'no' women went to the sepulcher while the others said they did, then you would have a contradiction.
Yep. . .and he is furious about that fact and vehemently denies it.
 
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Jun 21, 2015
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You can all stand in adamant opposition to the truth- but the fact remains that what you call "immaterial discrepancies" are, in fact, contradictions. No amount of denial will change that. But who are we to second guess mans handwritten copied account, that admittedly has "discrepancies"? Moving on from this post...

Note* - Just because there are discrepancies in mans account, does not mean the "jist" of the story is true. Christ is King. Heretics abound, the blind will lead the blind, and many will fall away.
 
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Jan 19, 2013
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Its really funny how people think that the gospel writers did not take particular care in meticulously recording the events of such a monumental occasion, and had not colluded with each other afterwards, (not like witnesses of an accident) gaining extra details that they may have missed. Or perhaps the writers were suffering from senility by the time they wrote it up!?

It makes no difference to me whether scripture is fallible because I do not worship a book like some, and that
scripture is not the Word of God but the word. Jesus is the Word (John 1).
Jesus disagrees with you (Mt 15:6).

The Holy Spirit within me reveals the truth and teaches me and I need no man to teach me doctrine after all of this time. I regard scripture as authoritive and hold it in a high place, but it is the Spirit who teaches me. Scripture then verifies what I have been taught. I will not accept anything that is not writen therein, but do not do what others do in picking verses here and there to get their doctrine.

The men who wrote it were taught by the Holy Spirit and one in particular solely by Him, that is Paul, who when he found the other apostles, discovered that they were in one accord.
Scripture is not written to form our doctrines from.
Jesus disagrees with you.

He scolded the Jews for their ignorance and neglect of Scripture: "Are you not in error because you do not know the Scriptures?". . .Have you not read. . ." "Go and learn what this means. . ." (Mk 12:24; Mt 12:3, 5 19:4, 21:16, 42, 9:13).

It is to confirm what we have learned through obedience because if we obey we know that we are in the same Spirit as the original writers. People want to know the doctrines without having to obey.

The early Quakers were big on this one and that is why they were not considered Protestants. Revelation comes through the Spirit and if we are filled with the Spirit, we can accept inconsistencies without them making any difference to us. We will discerne what is of God and what is not in any writings.
There is nothing "not of God" in any Biblical writings.

Jesus treated arguments from Scripture as final: "It is written. . ." "the scripture cannot be broken." (Mt 5:18; Lk 16:17)
 

Hepzibah

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Apr 18, 2015
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Valient wrote
The Holy Spirit speaks to us through God's word as He guides our thinking and reveals its truth. But we are earthen vessels, and thus only receive the Spirit's guidance imperfectly. If the Scripture is not basically inerrant then we have no certainty on which to base our faith. Anyone can simply choose out what he wants to believe and say 'the Holy Spirit showed me.' The Scripture is the measure whereby we can tell whether it really was the Holy Spirit.

If Jesus had to call on the word of God as His backing, how much more do we. That is why Jesus confirmed that every smallest letter and accent in the word of God is unbreakable and will be fulfilled
The Holy Spirit also speaks through scripture but the primary means of revelation must be the Spirit within, who is inerrant. It is true that we will not have His word on everything but what He does teach is inerrant and we can be sure of it. Just because men who are not filled with the Spirit say so and so, does not cancel out God's primary means of revelation, backed up by scripture as I said.

I strongly recommend the following by Robert Barclay theologian to understand the rightful place of the Spirit's leading and the rightful place of scripture:

Apology, Proposition 2

Apology, Proposition 3
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Also why would Mary be left alone by the other Mary, at the tomb, placing herself at risk, when something unusual had happened concerning the body of Jesus and the 'robbers' might return and she would be a witness?
So you don't believe Scripture?

You have a low and unBiblical view of Scripture.
 

Hepzibah

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2015
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So you don't believe Scripture?

You have a low and unBiblical view of Scripture.
My view of scripture is so high Erin, that I obey what I read. Do you Erin? Do you speak to the brethren with love and a humble spirit?
 
Jan 19, 2013
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You can all stand in adamant opposition to the truth- but the fact remains that what you call
"immaterial discrepancies" are, in fact, contradictions. No amount of denial will change that.
Nope. . .it's only a contradiction when an account says that is it not so, does not allow it.

Not every fact regarding any account has been recorded.
No account disallows any other account.

All are reconcilable. . .much to your dismay. . .for it means your "critical thinking" cannot unseat the truth of the Bible.

You need to be freed from you bondage to it, so that you may receive the truth from above.
 
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Jan 19, 2013
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Valient wrote

The Holy Spirit also speaks through scripture but the primary means of revelation must be the Spirit within, who is inerrant. It is true that we will not have His word on everything but what He does teach is inerrant and we can be sure of it. Just because men who are not filled with the Spirit say so and so, does not cancel out God's primary means of revelation, backed up by scripture as I said.
If your personal revelation has to agree with Scripture to be true, that means Scripture is the higher and final authority regarding God's truth.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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My view of scripture is so high Erin, that I obey what I read. Do you Erin? Do you speak to the brethren with love and a humble spirit?
I believe and obey what I read.
 
Jun 21, 2015
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I believe and obey what I read.
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.


Read and Obey 2 Timothy. Unless of
course that doesn't qualify.
 
Jun 21, 2015
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Why do some women refuse to obey scripture when they say they believe it to be infallible?

Granted i take Elin is a woman?
 

valiant

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Mar 22, 2015
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The funny thing is, ive responded with much effort when posted a question and have actually entertained many theories and researched them in the last 3 days. What really suprises me is the number of isiots who come here discounting what i post and NEVER do the homework- never actually read the 4 accounts themselves and take notes of what they read, notating the differences....i feel sad for people like that- they will fall for popular deception when the time draws close for lack of knowledge- they will believe wht they are told over researching it- and when they do not get raptured BEFORE the trib- they will fall. Hard. Mark my words.

I know there is conflict there- i know that the accounts do not match- i want answers man- why do i keep the debate hot? i dont. Im attacked. i defend. I have never changed my OP position- HOW DOES THIS AFFECT DOCTRINE? how does this affect my black and white interpretation of alot of scripture? How does this affect what DiscipleDave teaches??? How does this affect the doctrine of sinless perfection?

There ARE. doctrinal implications that REALLY MATTER TO ME becuase i feel some are actually salvation related. What if i am holdong myself to too high of a standard?
I gave you answers from my own website and you just ignored them. You are not interested in truth. You just want to destroy people's faith because you think its clever.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Why do some women refuse to obey scripture when they say they believe it to be infallible?

Granted i take Elin is a woman?
That's a pitiful fail. . .

Please present a Scripture which in context applies to Elin outside the assembly which she is not obeying.

If you were a believer, you would know better.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.


Read and Obey 2 Timothy. Unless of
course that doesn't qualify.
Do you know what context means?
 
Jun 21, 2015
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Scripture says NO woman is to teach or take authority over a man. Ever. Because of their involvement in the fall, and their lesser created order, under men...and for no other reason. They are NOT supposed to attempt to tell a man ANYTHING regarding the word of God, EVER..did the word come OUT of you, or TO you? ....Yet we see plainly that Elin is a usurper of authority and attempts to teach men.

She is blatantly in opposition to scripture and does walk in disobedience. If your going to preach that the word is infallible and true, you might want to exercise a little respect for it and adhere to its teachings.
 
Jun 21, 2015
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Do you know what context means?
TIME AND CULTURE?
Sometimes, you’ll hear people say, “Paul prohibition against women church leadership was only for that time and culture. Paul wrote those prohibitions because of the rampant, uneducated, Corinthian feminists who were disrupting church services in his day. He didn’t expect us to obey those commands in the modern era!”
That’s simply not true.
First of all, Paul prefaces his 1 Corinthian 14 command with the words, As in all the churches of the saints:
As in all the churches of the saints, the women should keep silent in the churches (1 Cor 14:33-34).
Second, when we read the 1 Timothy 2 injunction, we are met with the following words:
“I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve” (1 Tim 2:12-13).
We can see from the text that Paul’s reason for not allowing women to teach or exercise authority over men has NOTHING to do with his contemporary cultural context. Rather, Paul’s reason is simple: “Because God made Adam first.” In other words, Paul does not cite contemporary reasons for his ban, instead, he goes back to a Creation Ordinance in order to firmly ground his prohibitions.
CONCLUSIONS
Men and women are both made in the image of God (Gen 1:27). Accordingly, there is no demerit in the valuation of the soul of either sex. In the eyes of God, a saved soul is a saved soul–there is “neither male nor female” (Gal 3:28) when it comes to the value of a human soul. Concurrently, however, the sexes have vastly different roles within the church and in family life. The offices of pastor, elder, and deacon are open only to Christian men.
We must remember that most men will humbly serve Christ as laypeople. Most men will joyfully serve Christ and His Church outside the offices of pastor, elder, or deacon–and they are fine with that. All women must serve Christ and His Church outside the offices of pastor, elder, or deacon–and most women are fine with that. They’re fine, because as my wife stated the other night, “The issue is very clear in Scripture.” If we take what’s clear in Scripture and disobey it due to “contemporary cultural irrelevance,” then we should not be surprised when homosexual activists infiltrate our churches and begin using the same hermeneutical mispractices to explain away clear passages such as Romans 1:27. At the end of the day, this is not about women in ministry. This is about the inerrancy and authority of Scripture. SINCE YOU CLAIM INERRANCY- practice what you preach woman.
“Biblical authority is at stake in the debate between complementarianism and egalitarianism–because if you can get egalitarianism from the Bible, you can get anything from the Bible.” -J. Ligon Duncan III