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The poll does not address the plural Sabbath's in relation to God ordained Holy Days, our English terminology being "holidays" in relation to celebration.
[SUP]"[/SUP]So the Levites stilled all the people, saying, Hold your peace, for the day is holy; neither be ye grieved. And all the people went their way to eat, and to drink, and to send portions, and to make great mirth, because they had understood the words that were declared unto them." Nehemiah 8:11-12
In fact read the whole book of Nehemiah and see why the people had reason to rejoice. If you desire you can skip the names for starters. LOL
[SUP]"[/SUP]So the Levites stilled all the people, saying, Hold your peace, for the day is holy; neither be ye grieved. And all the people went their way to eat, and to drink, and to send portions, and to make great mirth, because they had understood the words that were declared unto them." Nehemiah 8:11-12
In fact read the whole book of Nehemiah and see why the people had reason to rejoice. If you desire you can skip the names for starters. LOL
Very well said. I agree with all the things you mentioned in this post.
My OPINION and BELIEF is: Why are the seventh day adventists so staunch on this Old Testament law? They feel it is the mark of the beast. That It is a bad sin. If they are going to just observe this old testament law, why do they call themselves Christians? Why not just be a Jew and follow ALL the old testament laws. Like the one about not eating pork. Do sda eat pork?
I thought Old testament law did not apply to us. That Christ came to fullfill the law. Did nt Christ also mention a scripture about an ox? Luke 13:15.>>>>
The Lord answered him, "You hypocrites! Doesn't each of you on the Sabbath untie your ox or donkey from the stall and lead it out to give it water?
I wonder the same thing.
Acts 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
Apparently this sect is still around.
And still the question is asked of them, Why put a yoke on Christians that neither we nor ancient Israel was able to bear?
The question is not understood properly by the sect that is still around. If they did understand, they wouldn't attempt it.
Acts 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
Apparently this sect is still around.
And still the question is asked of them, Why put a yoke on Christians that neither we nor ancient Israel was able to bear?
The question is not understood properly by the sect that is still around. If they did understand, they wouldn't attempt it.
S
This guy is Eliwood. He has been banned under at least 3 other usernames that I know about.
He listens to Restored Church of God and 119ministries videos and regurgitates them like a little parrot here.
Even though he proclaims great allegiance to the Sabbath, he lies by setting up new user ids with false credentials. The fruits speak for themselves.
He listens to Restored Church of God and 119ministries videos and regurgitates them like a little parrot here.
Even though he proclaims great allegiance to the Sabbath, he lies by setting up new user ids with false credentials. The fruits speak for themselves.
And you sir, are twisting scripture, it does not say until it brings you to Him. Here is what the scripture says...
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
All has not been fulfilled. The man of sin has not appeared, the AoD has not been set up, the Tribulation has not occurred, Christ has not returned, the Millennium has not begun, the Great White Throne judgment as not occurred and New Jerusalem has not come down from heaven.
You would do well to read this...
2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
All has not been fulfilled. The man of sin has not appeared, the AoD has not been set up, the Tribulation has not occurred, Christ has not returned, the Millennium has not begun, the Great White Throne judgment as not occurred and New Jerusalem has not come down from heaven.
You would do well to read this...
2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
S
If you used those verses in the manner in which you are proposing, then you need to be keeping the entire Old Covenant, including animal sacrifices and physical circumcision and all the other aspects of the ceremonial and ritualistic laws, as those things were part of the Old Covenant Law. You are being inconsistent in your assertion regarding these verses.
In addition, as I have noted, comparing Colossians 2:16-17 with Hebrews 10:1-2 and Hebrews 9:9-11 proves conclusively that the Sabbath and Holy Days are grouped with animal sacrifices and food and drink offerings in terms of their applicability. Notice the wording of "shadow of things to come" used in both Colossians 2:16-17 and Hebrews 10:1-2. Hebrews 10:1-2 is talking about animal sacrifices and the ceremonial and ritualistic elements of the Law, so by implication the Sabbath and Holy Days were considered similarly by Paul. Hebrews 9:9-11 makes it clear that "food and drink" was imposed only until the "time of reformation" so, again, by Paul grouping the Sabbath and Holy Days with food and drink, he is pointing to their inapplicability.
There is no hermeneutic concept that says that the holy days must continue to be observed until they are fulfilled, but I will say in addition that I believe that the meaning of ALL the Holy Days have been fulfilled. For instance, the Feast of Tabernacles is often considered to be pointing to the Millennium, however I find it more compelling that the Feast of Tabernacles referred to the Incarnation, which has already happened. In addition, I totally reject the view of Armstrongism regarding the Day of Atonement. Satan is NOT our sin-bearer; Jesus was. The two goats portrayed two different aspects of the Atonement; Christ's blood being shed for the remission of the sins of believers and him carrying away our sins and their burden. Satan will never bear our sin burden, and Armstrong's perverted gospel makes Satan into some kind of co-Savior.
Again, forsake the teachings of that foolish old man. Place your faith in Jesus Christ and his perfect sacrifice on your behalf. He was deluded and misrepresented the gospel message. His claims regarding the members of Worldwide Church of God becoming part of the Godhead are blasphemy, and his claim that normal Christians are "so-called Christians" following a "counterfeit Christianity" and a "false gospel" are something God will deal with him on. Armstrongites are the ones who are blinded and deceived, not the rest of Christianity. Evangelical Christians know far more about the gospel than he did. He got more wrong that right. He was simply a deluded, divisive old fool.
In addition, as I have noted, comparing Colossians 2:16-17 with Hebrews 10:1-2 and Hebrews 9:9-11 proves conclusively that the Sabbath and Holy Days are grouped with animal sacrifices and food and drink offerings in terms of their applicability. Notice the wording of "shadow of things to come" used in both Colossians 2:16-17 and Hebrews 10:1-2. Hebrews 10:1-2 is talking about animal sacrifices and the ceremonial and ritualistic elements of the Law, so by implication the Sabbath and Holy Days were considered similarly by Paul. Hebrews 9:9-11 makes it clear that "food and drink" was imposed only until the "time of reformation" so, again, by Paul grouping the Sabbath and Holy Days with food and drink, he is pointing to their inapplicability.
There is no hermeneutic concept that says that the holy days must continue to be observed until they are fulfilled, but I will say in addition that I believe that the meaning of ALL the Holy Days have been fulfilled. For instance, the Feast of Tabernacles is often considered to be pointing to the Millennium, however I find it more compelling that the Feast of Tabernacles referred to the Incarnation, which has already happened. In addition, I totally reject the view of Armstrongism regarding the Day of Atonement. Satan is NOT our sin-bearer; Jesus was. The two goats portrayed two different aspects of the Atonement; Christ's blood being shed for the remission of the sins of believers and him carrying away our sins and their burden. Satan will never bear our sin burden, and Armstrong's perverted gospel makes Satan into some kind of co-Savior.
Again, forsake the teachings of that foolish old man. Place your faith in Jesus Christ and his perfect sacrifice on your behalf. He was deluded and misrepresented the gospel message. His claims regarding the members of Worldwide Church of God becoming part of the Godhead are blasphemy, and his claim that normal Christians are "so-called Christians" following a "counterfeit Christianity" and a "false gospel" are something God will deal with him on. Armstrongites are the ones who are blinded and deceived, not the rest of Christianity. Evangelical Christians know far more about the gospel than he did. He got more wrong that right. He was simply a deluded, divisive old fool.
O
Sparkman,
you shame yourself, speaking ill of the dead...calling names is NOT the WAY of CHRIST,
whether we agree with someone or not, we DO NOT cross-back-over into the world and
use 'worldly techniques' to get our OWN agenda across.
as it is written,
The friend of the world is the enemy of God.
my wife and I would love to see you experience some growth in your Spiritual Walk...
and forget those things which are behind', and embrace your faith in a new-walk...
as it is written,
ZEC.14:20.
In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD;
and the pots in the LORD'S house shall be like the bowls before the altar.
you shame yourself, speaking ill of the dead...calling names is NOT the WAY of CHRIST,
whether we agree with someone or not, we DO NOT cross-back-over into the world and
use 'worldly techniques' to get our OWN agenda across.
as it is written,
The friend of the world is the enemy of God.
my wife and I would love to see you experience some growth in your Spiritual Walk...
and forget those things which are behind', and embrace your faith in a new-walk...
as it is written,
ZEC.14:20.
In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD;
and the pots in the LORD'S house shall be like the bowls before the altar.
S
False prophets are false prophets.
He claimed Mussolini and Hitler were reviving the end time Rome Empire. That didn't happen.
He claimed that Christ would return in 1975. The book "1975 In Prophecy" is evidence of that claim. That didn't happen. Therefore he is a false prophet.
Are you and your wife Armstrongites? If so, I encourage you to abandon the teachings of this false prophet as well.
If you can show me one Scripture that says I shouldn't criticize the teachings of a false prophet, then I will stop. Until then, I will proclaim it from the rooftops to keep others from being deceived.
I was an Armstrongite so I know their many doctrinal errors, including claiming that they will join the Godhead in the resurrection, and that all other Christians are deceived and so-called Christians who aren't following God. Their splinter groups teach that they are the true Church (es) and alone have genuine relationships with God.
If you're an Armstrongite you should be ashamed of yourself for claiming blasphemous things such as claiming you will join the Godhead in the resurrection, and that others who have placed their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation are false Christians.
He claimed Mussolini and Hitler were reviving the end time Rome Empire. That didn't happen.
He claimed that Christ would return in 1975. The book "1975 In Prophecy" is evidence of that claim. That didn't happen. Therefore he is a false prophet.
Are you and your wife Armstrongites? If so, I encourage you to abandon the teachings of this false prophet as well.
If you can show me one Scripture that says I shouldn't criticize the teachings of a false prophet, then I will stop. Until then, I will proclaim it from the rooftops to keep others from being deceived.
I was an Armstrongite so I know their many doctrinal errors, including claiming that they will join the Godhead in the resurrection, and that all other Christians are deceived and so-called Christians who aren't following God. Their splinter groups teach that they are the true Church (es) and alone have genuine relationships with God.
If you're an Armstrongite you should be ashamed of yourself for claiming blasphemous things such as claiming you will join the Godhead in the resurrection, and that others who have placed their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation are false Christians.
O
Sparkman,
many, many churches claim to be The One and Only Way, so, are we to get on the 'band-wagon'
for every one of them???
if you haven't discerned by now our Love for you and your future, then you have most assuredly
missed our point and more importantly, you have neglected to embrace our Love for you....
instead, you choose to refuse to stop spinning your wheels and MOVE-ON in your Spiritual Walk.
we pray that you choose our Father in heaven's ways instead of your own 'don quixote' agenda/mission.
many, many churches claim to be The One and Only Way, so, are we to get on the 'band-wagon'
for every one of them???
if you haven't discerned by now our Love for you and your future, then you have most assuredly
missed our point and more importantly, you have neglected to embrace our Love for you....
instead, you choose to refuse to stop spinning your wheels and MOVE-ON in your Spiritual Walk.
we pray that you choose our Father in heaven's ways instead of your own 'don quixote' agenda/mission.
Amen.
Sparky, you should spend less time referencing that Armstrong guy (who no one else talks about except you) and your past church, and spend more time talking about your current relationship with God and how blessed it is.
As it is, it seems like you're focusing too much on your sour grapes than on the true wine of Messiah.
Sparky, you should spend less time referencing that Armstrong guy (who no one else talks about except you) and your past church, and spend more time talking about your current relationship with God and how blessed it is.
As it is, it seems like you're focusing too much on your sour grapes than on the true wine of Messiah.
S
At least four major groups are continuing to teach this blasphemous and false doctrine of Armstrongism.
The fact that they declare other believers to be "so-called believers" following a "counterfeit Christianity" and a "false gospel" alone is enough to give me justification to criticize them.
They are nothing but a modern version of the Judaizers of Galatia. Listen to their programs if you don't believe me...United Church of God, Restored Church of God, and Philadelphia Church of God.
I have no major issue with Sabbath and festival observers who don't make such claims that others aren't saved, but Armstrongites in particular are worthy of spending some effort on refuting for that reason alone, plus their claim that they will be part of the Godhead in the resurrection. I don't want seekers finding their way into these cults. I wasted over 10 years of my life involved with their foolishness. I wish I'd known the facts first before I got involved with them.
The fact that they declare other believers to be "so-called believers" following a "counterfeit Christianity" and a "false gospel" alone is enough to give me justification to criticize them.
They are nothing but a modern version of the Judaizers of Galatia. Listen to their programs if you don't believe me...United Church of God, Restored Church of God, and Philadelphia Church of God.
I have no major issue with Sabbath and festival observers who don't make such claims that others aren't saved, but Armstrongites in particular are worthy of spending some effort on refuting for that reason alone, plus their claim that they will be part of the Godhead in the resurrection. I don't want seekers finding their way into these cults. I wasted over 10 years of my life involved with their foolishness. I wish I'd known the facts first before I got involved with them.
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Sparkman, it is true that we should keep our minds and hearts on all things beautiful. Were I to begin to share the bad experience I have had with denominations, I am afraid it would be so long and tedious it would chase everyone out of the forum.
Of course there are false teachers, teachings, and maybe even entire assemblies, but to dwell on this is satisfying the goals of the enemy in keeping you from the important job of planting good seed for others to nurture and develop in their walks in Jesus Christ.
It is a waste of time to continually point to whom you believe to be doing Satan's work, and it will ruin your walk in Jesus Christ, it will pick away at your own love and faith.
If you are content with your faith, and you know things, lessons, worthy of sharing and nurturing others, stop whipping that dead horse and get on the live one and ride. Jesus is our Salvation, and His gospel is always worthy of sharing and repeating.
I will not annoy you with any more home spun religious advice. I pray you are able to, as old and new has said, leave what is past behind and look to the job to be done now in Jesus Christ. God bless you always.
Of course there are false teachers, teachings, and maybe even entire assemblies, but to dwell on this is satisfying the goals of the enemy in keeping you from the important job of planting good seed for others to nurture and develop in their walks in Jesus Christ.
It is a waste of time to continually point to whom you believe to be doing Satan's work, and it will ruin your walk in Jesus Christ, it will pick away at your own love and faith.
If you are content with your faith, and you know things, lessons, worthy of sharing and nurturing others, stop whipping that dead horse and get on the live one and ride. Jesus is our Salvation, and His gospel is always worthy of sharing and repeating.
I will not annoy you with any more home spun religious advice. I pray you are able to, as old and new has said, leave what is past behind and look to the job to be done now in Jesus Christ. God bless you always.
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
2Pe_3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
Rev_20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev_20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
There is a totally different reason for us to not have to go by the Mosaic laws. The first thing is, all mankind save 8 people were destroyed by the flood and the Noahide laws came into effect after Noah came off the ark. What were they?
Gen 9:1 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.
Gen 9:2 And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered.
Gen 9:3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.
Gen 9:4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.
Gen 9:5 And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.
Gen 9:6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.
Gen 9:7 And you, be ye fruitful, and multiply; bring forth abundantly in the earth, and multiply therein.
Gen 9:8 And God spake unto Noah, and to his sons with him, saying,
Gen 9:9 And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you;
Gen 9:10 And with every living creature that is with you, of the fowl, of the cattle, and of every beast of the earth with you; from all that go out of the ark, to every beast of the earth.
Gen 9:11 And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.
After Jesus was crucified and rose, a new covenant was made because there was fault found in Noah's covenant. What was that fault?
Heb_8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Heb_8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
What was the fault of the first two covenants, the first by Moses and the second by Noah? See, God made three covenants with man, not just two. The third is the Christ Covenant. What is that?
Heb_8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
2Pe_3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
Rev_20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev_20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
There is a totally different reason for us to not have to go by the Mosaic laws. The first thing is, all mankind save 8 people were destroyed by the flood and the Noahide laws came into effect after Noah came off the ark. What were they?
Gen 9:1 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.
Gen 9:2 And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered.
Gen 9:3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.
Gen 9:4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.
Gen 9:5 And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.
Gen 9:6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.
Gen 9:7 And you, be ye fruitful, and multiply; bring forth abundantly in the earth, and multiply therein.
Gen 9:8 And God spake unto Noah, and to his sons with him, saying,
Gen 9:9 And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you;
Gen 9:10 And with every living creature that is with you, of the fowl, of the cattle, and of every beast of the earth with you; from all that go out of the ark, to every beast of the earth.
Gen 9:11 And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.
After Jesus was crucified and rose, a new covenant was made because there was fault found in Noah's covenant. What was that fault?
Heb_8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Heb_8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
What was the fault of the first two covenants, the first by Moses and the second by Noah? See, God made three covenants with man, not just two. The third is the Christ Covenant. What is that?
Heb_8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.