Sabbath Law and Rest

[Karraster]

How am I not being honest, I quoted you in your thread? I didn't call you wicked, I called the rejection a wicked notion. If you are trying to stir up problem, I don't want to be part of it. I was using the egg and yoke anology to explain scripture...

It's there in black and white for anyone to see who said what.

When I read what you said about me on this thread, it shocked me.

It was a good reminder though, to put on the armor of the Word. As we all should be ready, for when trials come. Forgiveness is part of that armor, I forgive you, and hope you me. Far greater trials are ahead.

 

[Spokenpassage]

It's there in black and white for anyone to see who said what.

When I read what you said about me on this thread, it shocked me.

It was a good reminder though, to put on the armor of the Word. As we all should be ready, for when trials come. Forgiveness is part of that armor, I forgive you, and hope you me. Far greater trials are ahead.

My prayers have been answered. I was hoping sometime we can talk, and that you may forgive me. I may not be perfect, and I may get over the top with myself, but I do love God. I apologize if it offended you. Yes everyone can read both of our posts, and if what I say makes people look at me different oh well it's the internet and I'm repenting so yeah...

 

[Karraster]

My prayers have been answered. I was hoping sometime we can talk, and that you may forgive me. I may not be perfect, and I may get over the top with myself, but I do love God. I apologize if it offended you. Yes everyone can read both of our posts, and if what I say makes people look at me different oh well it's the internet and I'm repenting so yeah...

Internet is not as easy communication as face to face. I was not offended, rather felt miscommunication was going on. Anyone can get over the top, I do it myself many times too. Thank you for your kind words.

 

[Spokenpassage]

Internet is not as easy communication as face to face. I was not offended, rather felt miscommunication was going on. Anyone can get over the top, I do it myself many times too. Thank you for your kind words.

Your welcome and thank you as well. I believe there is a lot of miscommunication in the forum.

 

[john832]

My prayers have been answered. I was hoping sometime we can talk, and that you may forgive me. I may not be perfect, and I may get over the top with myself, but I do love God. I apologize if it offended you. Yes everyone can read both of our posts, and if what I say makes people look at me different oh well it's the internet and I'm repenting so yeah...

Internet is not as easy communication as face to face. I was not offended, rather felt miscommunication was going on. Anyone can get over the top, I do it myself many times too. Thank you for your kind words.

Your welcome and thank you as well. I believe there is a lot of miscommunication in the forum.

This reminds me of...

Psa 133:1 A Song of Ascents. Of David. Behold, how good and how pleasant it is For brethren to dwell together in unity!

 

[Bookends]

Neither answers apply. I can't choose any.

God created the world and everything in it and called it very good. He rested the 7th day from His work and is still resting. Adam (man) had a close relationship with God until the fall, since then God has been hard at work restoring man and reconciling man to Himself through His son Jesus Christ.

The purpose of the Laws and Israel was to show how inadequate we are in keeping God's Laws, to show us how sinful we are, to show us how perfect and Holy our God is, to show us His holy attributes, to show us we need a savor, to show us we can't please God without a savor, and most important to point to the true son of God was who stepped down out of darkness to redeem us through His blood. Notice that God did all of this in a time when man's develop reached the point in when man could write and record such doings.

The Sabbath is a symbol rest we have in Jesus Christ, it is not a day anymore. You observe the Sabbath by having Christ in your life every day.

There is no place in the bible where demands or command us to worship on a particular day. There is no place in the bible where God commands us to rest a particular day, except for the Jews before Christ (which I mentioned was a symbol of entering God's rest, reconciliation, through works of the Son on the Cross. However, corporate worship/gathering is a command and I choose to do on Sunday because this is the day Christ arose, Paul states without Christ's resurrection our faith is futile. Our faith hinges on the fact of Christ's resurrection for this gives us hope and encouragement (something to look forward to) in the mist of our trials and tribulations. Not only that but their is evidence in the OT that Sunday was the day Christians gathered in fellowship.

I don't worship (corporately) on Saturday because then I may be in danger of looking back at the symbol for my hope and salvation. And if I were to do that, I'd be trampling on the blood of Christ. For those who do worship (corporately) on Saturday, I have no problem with if done with a pure motive, the right reasons. If you think it's going to save you, separate you from the rest of Christ's followers, bring you closer to God spiritually and give you an arrogant attitude of piousness - then I do have something against you.

Hebrews 4
Romans 14:5
Galatians 4:8-11
Colossians 2:16-17
Hebrews 10:19-39
Acts2:1
Acts 20:7
1 Corinthians 16:2

 

[JaumeJ]

So many people miss the point. All who consider the Sabbath the Seventh Day do so because it IS the Seventh Day of creation as given by our Heavenly Father. God forbid people believe the Sabbath of the Lord is the first day and coincides with the Day given as a gift to all who believe Him.

Man changed the day of the Sabbath of the Lord. All who say it is Jesus or His gospel that changed this order are sorely wrong. No one is denying anything about Yeshua in believing Him before flesh.

 

[john832]

Neither answers apply. I can't choose any.

God created the world and everything in it and called it very good. He rested the 7th day from His work and is still resting. Adam (man) had a close relationship with God until the fall, since then God has been hard at work restoring man and reconciling man to Himself through His son Jesus Christ.

The purpose of the Laws and Israel was to show how inadequate we are in keeping God's Laws, to show us how sinful we are, to show us how perfect and Holy our God is, to show us His holy attributes, to show us we need a savor, to show us we can't please God without a savor, and most important to point to the true son of God was who stepped down out of darkness to redeem us through His blood. Notice that God did all of this in a time when man's develop reached the point in when man could write and record such doings.

The Sabbath is a symbol rest we have in Jesus Christ, it is not a day anymore. You observe the Sabbath by having Christ in your life every day.

There is no place in the bible where demands or command us to worship on a particular day. There is no place in the bible where God commands us to rest a particular day, except for the Jews before Christ (which I mentioned was a symbol of entering God's rest, reconciliation, through works of the Son on the Cross. However, corporate worship/gathering is a command and I choose to do on Sunday because this is the day Christ arose, Paul states without Christ's resurrection our faith is futile. Our faith hinges on the fact of Christ's resurrection for this gives us hope and encouragement (something to look forward to) in the mist of our trials and tribulations. Not only that but their is evidence in the OT that Sunday was the day Christians gathered in fellowship.

I don't worship (corporately) on Saturday because then I may be in danger of looking back at the symbol for my hope and salvation. And if I were to do that, I'd be trampling on the blood of Christ. For those who do worship (corporately) on Saturday, I have no problem with if done with a pure motive, the right reasons. If you think it's going to save you, separate you from the rest of Christ's followers, bring you closer to God spiritually and give you an arrogant attitude of piousness - then I do have something against you.

Hebrews 4
Romans 14:5
Galatians 4:8-11
Colossians 2:16-17
Hebrews 10:19-39
Acts2:1
Acts 20:7
1 Corinthians 16:2

And this is what happens when one does not observe the shadow of the coming Sabbath rest, they do not understand that the Sabbath is the shadow of the coming Millenium. The rest Christ gives is the 1000 years of peace and prosperity and safety and salvation for the whole world...

Col 2:16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths,
Col 2:17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

Not over and done as in the crucifixion but rather YET TO COME as in the coming Millenium.

 

[Grandpa]

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Sabbath - cease from works, rest

Hebrews 4:10-11
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. [SUP]11 [/SUP]Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Galatians 3:24-25
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Why are Christians no longer under law? What are we resting in?
Faith. Faith in the Finished Work of Christ and the work He does in us.

John 15:5 [SUP] [/SUP]I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

What fruit?

Galatians 3:2-3
[SUP]2 [/SUP]This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

You're going back to work at the law in your own power? Is that where you recieved grace? Is that where your blessing is located?

If so you are a debtor to do all of it, not just pick and choose which ones are "best".

Galatians 5:1-4
[SUP]1[/SUP]Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Christians aren't under the law to work at it like jews. We have the Lord Jesus Christ.

Galatians 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Come again? We are not under law, we are under Grace. If we are led of the Spirit we are not under law. How is that?

Galatians 5:22-23
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Can you cause this fruit to grow by your work at the law? No. Your work at the law causes your sin to become even more apparent. This fruit is grown only by abiding in the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, by faith.

This is rest. This is what the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ gives us. He says I am the Way the Truth and the Life. None come to the Father but by Me. Not by Him plus your work of the law. Not by Him plus your obedience.

He says Come to Me and I will give you rest. Not rest depending on how good of a person you are. Not rest depending on how well you do at working at the law. Rest because of How Good He Is. Rest because of His Work at the law.

 

[john832]

There is ignorance and then there is wilfull ignorance.

 

[Bookends]

And this is what happens when one does not observe the shadow of the coming Sabbath rest, they do not understand that the Sabbath is the shadow of the coming Millenium. The rest Christ gives is the 1000 years of peace and prosperity and safety and salvation for the whole world...

Col 2:16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths,
Col 2:17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

Not over and done as in the crucifixion but rather YET TO COME as in the coming Millenium.

There is no coming millennium, we are in the millennium (it's not a literal thousand year time, but an age). The next age will be eternal.

Luke 17:21

[h=3]Luke 17:21[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

21 nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’[a] For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.”

Ephesians 2:6

[h=3]Ephesians 2:6[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

 

[JaumeJ]

Now I know people do look without seeing, and listen without hearing. That was proof positive. (Don't bother to ask.)

 

[john832]

There is no coming millennium, we are in the millennium (it's not a literal thousand year time, but an age). The next age will be eternal.

Luke 17:21

Luke 17:21

New King James Version (NKJV)

21 nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’[a] For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.”

Ephesians 2:6

Ephesians 2:6

New King James Version (NKJV)

6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

Luke 17:21 huh?

Luk 17:20 Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation;
Luk 17:21 nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you."

To whom is He speaking? The Pharisees. What did He really say?

New International Version
nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is in your midst."

English Standard Version
nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There!’ for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you.”

New American Standard Bible
nor will they say, 'Look, here it is!' or, 'There it is!' For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst."

Most translations have this correct. Here is a place where the KJV falls down. Why do I say this? Let's see, to whom was He speaking?

Luk 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

Was the Kingdom of God inside these Pharisees?

Mat 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

Read Mat 23 and then decide if these Pharisees had the Kingdom of God inside them.

If you are sitting in a heavenly place right this moment, ruling with Christ...

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

How about doing something about Syria? Maybe you can tame (Ras)Putin? How about the bloodshed in Africa? Perhaps you could deign to intervene in Iraq or Afghanistan?

Can't huh? That's because this is talking about a future time. If this is the best God can do to rule over men on the earth, He is a miserable failure. This is not His world currently...

2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

This is not God's world and won't be until Jesus Christ returns...

Luk 19:11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.
Luk 19:12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
Luk 19:13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.

Oh and about that 1000 years...

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

If this is just metaphor, where do you stop spiritualizing away the clear statements of the Bible? Seems to me if you can spiritualize away part of it, why not all of it. It becomes meaninless.

 

[chubbena]

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Does He imply the rest of the soul replaces physical rest? Does He imply one doesn't need physical rest in Him?

Sabbath - cease from works, rest

Exactly.

Hebrews 4:10-11
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. [SUP]11 [/SUP]Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Exactly as Exodus 20:9-11 says: Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

So obey Him wholeheartedly.

Galatians 3:24-25
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

We still need physical rest.

Why are Christians no longer under law? What are we resting in?

We still need physical rest.

Faith. Faith in the Finished Work of Christ and the work He does in us.

So believe in what He says.

John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

So rest in Him while one rests physically.

What fruit?

Fruit harvested from obedience.

Galatians 3:2-3
[SUP]2 [/SUP]This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Was the context about resting?

You're going back to work at the law in your own power? Is that where you recieved grace? Is that where your blessing is located?

Is working ignoring rest is where you receive grace and blessing?

If so you are a debtor to do all of it, not just pick and choose which ones are "best".

Does resting makes one debtor to the law?

Galatians 5:1-4
[SUP]1[/SUP]Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Do you consider resting a yoke of bondage?

[SUP]2 [/SUP]Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

What does circumcision have anything to do with resting?

Christians aren't under the law to work at it like jews. We have the Lord Jesus Christ.

Rest is not work.

Galatians 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Is resting not needed if one is led by the Spirit?

Come again? We are not under law, we are under Grace. If we are led of the Spirit we are not under law. How is that?

How's that one does not need rest under grace?

Galatians 5:22-23
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Can you cause this fruit to grow by your work at the law? No. Your work at the law causes your sin to become even more apparent. This fruit is grown only by abiding in the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, by faith.

Are you talking about working or resting?

This is rest. This is what the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ gives us. He says I am the Way the Truth and the Life. None come to the Father but by Me. Not by Him plus your work of the law. Not by Him plus your obedience.

He says Come to Me and I will give you rest. Not rest depending on how good of a person you are. Not rest depending on how well you do at working at the law. Rest because of How Good He Is. Rest because of His Work at the law.

Again does He say when you have rest in the soul you don't need physical rest?

 

[JaumeJ]

When you see the law written in the New Testament, it is from the Hebrew word, Torah, which does not mean law, rather it means teaching. Torah alone, that is to say learning from the teachings, will not save a soul, however once we are living in grace we understand the teachings, and we are free to obey the good laws while no more living in condemnation.
One may quote and argue all the words of Torah, which is now both the New and the Old TEstament, but unless he comes to the cross, all his learning means nothing. Usually without grace most learning displayed from reading the Word is nonsense, as we see many times in the forum. People mistaking Torah for law. All the good laws are contained in torah, this it is part of what is necessary to learn after salvation by the Blood of the Lamb.

 

[JesusLives]

Neither answers apply. I can't choose any.

God created the world and everything in it and called it very good. He rested the 7th day from His work and is still resting. Adam (man) had a close relationship with God until the fall, since then God has been hard at work restoring man and reconciling man to Himself through His son Jesus Christ.

The purpose of the Laws and Israel was to show how inadequate we are in keeping God's Laws, to show us how sinful we are, to show us how perfect and Holy our God is, to show us His holy attributes, to show us we need a savor, to show us we can't please God without a savor, and most important to point to the true son of God was who stepped down out of darkness to redeem us through His blood. Notice that God did all of this in a time when man's develop reached the point in when man could write and record such doings.

The Sabbath is a symbol rest we have in Jesus Christ, it is not a day anymore. You observe the Sabbath by having Christ in your life every day.

There is no place in the bible where demands or command us to worship on a particular day. There is no place in the bible where God commands us to rest a particular day, except for the Jews before Christ (which I mentioned was a symbol of entering God's rest, reconciliation, through works of the Son on the Cross. However, corporate worship/gathering is a command and I choose to do on Sunday because this is the day Christ arose, Paul states without Christ's resurrection our faith is futile. Our faith hinges on the fact of Christ's resurrection for this gives us hope and encouragement (something to look forward to) in the mist of our trials and tribulations. Not only that but their is evidence in the OT that Sunday was the day Christians gathered in fellowship.

I don't worship (corporately) on Saturday because then I may be in danger of looking back at the symbol for my hope and salvation. And if I were to do that, I'd be trampling on the blood of Christ. For those who do worship (corporately) on Saturday, I have no problem with if done with a pure motive, the right reasons. If you think it's going to save you, separate you from the rest of Christ's followers, bring you closer to God spiritually and give you an arrogant attitude of piousness - then I do have something against you.

Hebrews 4
Romans 14:5
Galatians 4:8-11
Colossians 2:16-17
Hebrews 10:19-39
Acts2:1
Acts 20:7
1 Corinthians 16:2

It makes me sad when people can't see that God gave us the Sabbath as a memorial of His creation week and asked us to celebrate it with Him on a weekly basis. It was His gift to us at the end of the week to come apart and spend time with Him. To be refreshed from the weekly grind. Sabbath started back at creation, it's not just a Jewish day. It's a day to praise God, spend time with family, go out in nature and enjoy God's creation. Some folks treat it as a bad thing and that if it is observed somehow that makes one a legalist or unsaved. That one could not possibly accept God's gift of grace and observe Sabbath too.

God wrote it Himself in stone and made it a request - REMEMBER the Sabbath day to keep it holy. The other 8 were THOU SHALT NOT more of commands than requests and also to Honor our Fathers and Mothers. God's law is the law of LOVE - I just wish everyone could see this.

Before I joined CC I did not even know what a Judaizer was or even heard the name. I also had never heard of the Hebrew Roots movement so I don't know how I could be a part of either thing. All I know is that God brought me back to Himself and explained what salvation was to me because I didn't understand it before and I am so grateful He did. I am not telling anyone what they have to do to be saved other than John 3:16. If God could help me understand He will help everyone else figure it out too. It is the Holy Spirits job to convict and convince of sin and truth.

 

[JesusLives]

There is no coming millennium, we are in the millennium (it's not a literal thousand year time, but an age). The next age will be eternal.

I respectfully disagree - Jesus must return before the millennium begins and Satan must be bound in chains to this earth.
Revelation 20:
1 - Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 - He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;
2 - and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

So if we are in the millennium as you suggest I have one question for you. Been tempted lately? Because as I read the scripture above Satan is not able to do so during that 1000 years.

 

[starfield]

I respectfully disagree - Jesus must return before the millennium begins and Satan must be bound in chains to this earth.
Revelation 20:
1 - Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 - He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;
2 - and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

So if we are in the millennium as you suggest I have one question for you. Been tempted lately? Because as I read the scripture above Satan is not able to do so during that 1000 years.

The book of Revelation is very symbolic. Satan is not an actual dragon neither is he bound with literal chains on earth. New Testament passages testify that Christ bound and destroyed the works of Satan during His earthly ministry and at the cross...

Mat 12:25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
Mat 12:26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
Mat 12:27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.
Mat 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
Mat 12:29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's [Satan] house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Heb 2:15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Satan still tempts people today. Revelation 20 doesn't say Satan can no longer tempt people, rather it specifically says "he should deceive the nations no more" (e.g. Gentile nations) - he cannot hinder the gospel and Christ's kingdom from advancing. Prior to Christ's first coming the gentile nations were under Satan's captivity but light was brought to them through Christ (Isaiah 42:6-7). Hence Paul preached this truth at Rome, "Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it" (Acts 28:28).

The 'thousand years' of Revelation 20 symbolises this church age. The next age is the eternal state in heaven or hell, not a millennial age.

Christ already has His spiritual kingdom. Believers are part of His kingdom...
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Christ is presently reigning in heaven and in the hearts of those who submit to Him, and believers have been made kings and priests unto God...
Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

So Jesus will not return to establish an earthly kingdom, He clearly said, "My kingdom is not of this world".

 

[chubbena]

Starfield,
I want to agree with you but do you think Rev 19 happens before Rev 20? i.e. the fall of the Babylon? So what's the Babylon referring to?

 

[Bookends]

Luke 17:21 huh?

Luk 17:20 Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation;
Luk 17:21 nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you."

To whom is He speaking? The Pharisees. What did He really say?

New International Version
nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is in your midst."

English Standard Version
nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There!’ for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you.”

New American Standard Bible
nor will they say, 'Look, here it is!' or, 'There it is!' For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst."

Most translations have this correct. Here is a place where the KJV falls down. Why do I say this? Let's see, to whom was He speaking?

Luk 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

Was the Kingdom of God inside these Pharisees?

Mat 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

Read Mat 23 and then decide if these Pharisees had the Kingdom of God inside them.

Ok, so Jesus said the Kingdom comes without observation. What do you think this means? Then He says the kingdom is in their midst. The kingdom was in their midst, but it was a kingdom that wasn't recognizable. Why? perhaps because the kingdom of God in this earth age is one which is spiritual, not physical. They expected an earthly kingdom in which the messiah reigns. I would be careful of you not to make the same mistake!!