Do you know why you are a protestant???

[Mec99]

It does not matter if the Soul lives on after death or dies during death. This is the type of Doctrine we can agree or disagree on and debate without any problems.

What does matter is the Doctrine of Mary being without sin. Clearly God says ALL have sinned. Its Doctrines like these that oppose the teachings of God that need no debate but are to be rejected as lies from Satan.

 

[VCO]

Let me put it in simpler terms which even you can understand VCO.

Every time you pray the Hail Mary, every time you pray the Rosary, and every time you ask Mary to intercede for you, you lose your Salvation and cannot enter into Heaven.

☝t<><

So WHO has been teaching you that FALSE DOCTRINE?

SHOW ME THE BOOK, CHAPTER, AND VERSE THAT SAYS THAT?

WHAT CHURCH DO YOU GO TO, I would like to see their Doctrinal Statement of FAITH.

Salvation CANNOT BE LOST, if you ever had it in the first place; because WE are not the ones Who hang on to it, The SON and the FATHER are:

John 10:27-29 (ASV)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
[SUP]28 [/SUP] and I give unto them eternal life {It is not eternal if you can lose it.}; and they shall never perish, {What part of NEVER, do you NOT understand.} and no one {Not even SELF.} shall snatch them out of my hand.
[SUP]29 [/SUP] My Father, who hath given them unto me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

John 3:36 (HCSB)
[SUP]36 [/SUP] The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who refuses to believe in the Son will not see life; instead, the wrath of God remains on him. {MY HOW YOU ADD TO WHAT THE WORD OF GOD ACTUALLY SAYS.}

1 John 2:19 (NKJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us. {Oh my, NOT EVEN ONE OF THEM LOST THEIR SALVATION, because they were NEVER saved in the first place.}

2 Timothy 2:10 (HCSB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] This is why I endure all things for the elect: so that they also may obtain salvation, which is in Christ Jesus, with eternal glory.

Hebrews 9:12 (NIV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption.

SO WHAT PART OF ETERNAL DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?

May I suggest that you get your theology directly from what the Bible SAYS, instead of little comic book tracts published by the False Prophet Jack Chick.

 

[mwc68]

It does not matter if the Soul lives on after death or dies during death. This is the type of Doctrine we can agree or disagree on and debate without any problems.

What does matter is the Doctrine of Mary being without sin. Clearly God says ALL have sinned. Its Doctrines like these that oppose the teachings of God that need no debate but are to be rejeWhat reacted as lies from Satan.

What is concerning is how much you need to beat this poor horse. It almost like you have an anti-devotion to her that is disturbing and alarming!

 

[tourist]

What is concerning is how much you need to beat this poor horse. It almost like you have an anti-devotion to her that is disturbing and alarming!

Perhaps a mean nun smacked his wrist with a ruler when he was but a lad.

 

[Mec99]

What is disturbing is you total devotion to Mary who was a sinner. Its God who should have your total devotion mw68, not Mary.

Galatians 5:19-21 (NKJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
[SUP]20 [/SUP] idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,
[SUP]21 [/SUP] envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Look carefully VCO at what God says in these verses. First of all He is not talking about non believers, He is talking about those who claim to be Christians and Catholics.

God is saying that those who PRACTICE Idolatry cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. Catholics are practicing Idolatry every time they say the Hail Mary because we are only to pray to God.

Catholics who say the Hail Mary are Idolaters and will not inherit the Kingdom of God because they practice being Idolaters by praying to Mary.

In these verses God is not talking to non believers, He is talking to the Catholics and Christians who refuse to stop sinning.

 

[mwc68]

What is disturbing is you total devotion to Mary who was a sinner. Its God who should have your total devotion mw68, not Mary.

Galatians 5:19-21 (NKJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
[SUP]20 [/SUP] idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,
[SUP]21 [/SUP] envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Look carefully VCO at what God says in these verses. First of all He is not talking about non believers, He is talking about those who claim to be Christians and Catholics.

God is saying that those who PRACTICE Idolatry cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. Catholics are practicing Idolatry every time they say the Hail Mary because we are only to pray to God.

Catholics who say the Hail Mary are Idolaters and will not inherit the Kingdom of God because they practice being Idolaters by praying to Mary.

In these verses God is not talking to non believers, He is talking to the Catholics and Christians who refuse to stop sinning.

I do have a special devotion to Mary and her example of how to respond to God.I don't worship her because of this devotion. Heck, i have a very special devotion to music and worship through music, but I don't worship the music, i worship the creator of music.How many times are you going to insist what I do is worship? Can we just agree to disagree on this because your disrespectful posts towards her are disturbing

 

[mwc68]

Perhaps a mean nun smacked his wrist with a ruler when he was but a lad.

There's a grudge there for real!

 

[Mec99]

When you pray the Rosary you are worshiping Mary. When you pray the Hail Mary you are worshiping Mary.

Are you saying that when a person says the Lord's Prayer he is not worshiping God?

What is disturbing is your lack of total devotion to God only. Only God deserves our devotion. Only God deserves our total attention to Him only.

You cannot serve two Masters mwc68. You cannot serve God and Mary. Its either God only or Mary only, you cannot do both.

Matthew 6:24
[SUP]24 [/SUP] "No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other.

Take your choice mwc68, who will you serve, God or Mary?

 

[KennethC]

☝t<><

So WHO has been teaching you that FALSE DOCTRINE?

SHOW ME THE BOOK, CHAPTER, AND VERSE THAT SAYS THAT?

WHAT CHURCH DO YOU GO TO, I would like to see their Doctrinal Statement of FAITH.

Salvation CANNOT BE LOST, if you ever had it in the first place; because WE are not the ones Who hang on to it, The SON and the FATHER are:

John 10:27-29 (ASV)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
[SUP]28 [/SUP] and I give unto them eternal life {It is not eternal if you can lose it.}; and they shall never perish, {What part of NEVER, do you NOT understand.} and no one {Not even SELF.} shall snatch them out of my hand.
[SUP]29 [/SUP] My Father, who hath given them unto me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

John 3:36 (HCSB)
[SUP]36 [/SUP] The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who refuses to believe in the Son will not see life; instead, the wrath of God remains on him. {MY HOW YOU ADD TO WHAT THE WORD OF GOD ACTUALLY SAYS.}

1 John 2:19 (NKJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us. {Oh my, NOT EVEN ONE OF THEM LOST THEIR SALVATION, because they were NEVER saved in the first place.}

2 Timothy 2:10 (HCSB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] This is why I endure all things for the elect: so that they also may obtain salvation, which is in Christ Jesus, with eternal glory.

Hebrews 9:12 (NIV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption.

SO WHAT PART OF ETERNAL DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?

May I suggest that you get your theology directly from what the Bible SAYS, instead of little comic book tracts published by the False Prophet Jack Chick.

How about we put these scriptures in perspective and proper context;


John 10:27-29 (ASV)
[SUP]27 [/SUP]My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Notice this verse here as it precedes receiving eternal life, as hearing the word to establish one's faith in the Lord and then following His teachings and commands in life. Then we are given eternal life after we have done that, as this goes hand and hand with what Jesus said "only those who do the will of the Father" will be in the kingdom.

John 3:36 (HCSB)
[SUP]36 [/SUP]The one who believes in the Son has eternal life

Here again we have the word "believe" which is a continuation word that when applied to the context of the original Greek meaning means that those who continue to believe has a mental assurance of receiving eternal life. It is a mental assurance right now that you have eternal life based on being in the faith.

I will skip over 1 John because it has to deal with forms of the antichrist that were never truly in the faith to begin with, they only crept in to deceive others.

2 Timothy 2:10 (HCSB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]This is why I endure all things for the elect: so that they also may obtain salvation, which is in Christ Jesus, with eternal glory.


Right here you don't look at those two words before salvation of may obtain, which means it is not guaranteed to receive it.
May obtain is a phrase that puts it as conditional.

Then in Hebrews 9:12 are really going to use that scripture because it is speaking of Jesus at His ascension.
Showing once again that eternal life is received at the day of redemption and is not a current physical possession.

Augustine was influenced by outside sources and went into apostasy teachings, which is funny because his eternal security doctrine teaches that apostasy is impossible. He also says that falling away is impossible to, but the bible speaks on both happening and will continue to happen.

 

[Mec99]

So VCO are you saying you believe in Once Saved Always Saved?

If you believer Eternal means Eternal and can never lose it then you must believe in OSAS!

Which is interesting because the Catholic Church teaches just the opposite.

 

[VCO]

Lazarus and the rich man is a parable that teaches that death is conclusive, showing the finality of individual responsibility in life that determines one’s eternal future destination. Elijah was taken up and suffered not death. Do you think they were bodily present with our Lord? Peter did. Together, the two of them represented the law and the prophets, brought to fruition and fulfilled in Christ.

Luke 16:19-31 (HCSB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] “There was a rich man who would dress in purple and fine linen, feasting lavishly every day.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] But a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, was left at his gate.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] He longed to be filled with what fell from the rich man’s table, but instead the dogs would come and lick his sores.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] One day the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried.
[SUP]23 [/SUP] And being in torment in Hades, he looked up and saw Abraham a long way off, with Lazarus at his side.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] ‘Father Abraham!’ he called out, ‘Have mercy on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this flame!’
[SUP]25 [/SUP] “‘Son,’ Abraham said, ‘remember that during your life you received your good things, just as Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here, while you are in agony.
[SUP]26 [/SUP] Besides all this, a great chasm has been fixed between us and you, so that those who want to pass over from here to you cannot; neither can those from there cross over to us.’
[SUP]27 [/SUP] “‘Father,’ he said, ‘then I beg you to send him to my father’s house—
[SUP]28 [/SUP] because I have five brothers—to warn them, so they won’t also come to this place of torment.’
[SUP]29 [/SUP] “But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; they should listen to them.’
[SUP]30 [/SUP] “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said. ‘But if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’
[SUP]31 [/SUP] “But he told him, ‘If they don’t listen to Moses and the prophets, they will not be persuaded if someone rises from the dead.’”


It is not a Parable, it is a biographical true story. NO WHERE IN SCRIPTURE does it say it was a Parable. IN NONE of the Parables that JESUS TOLD, was there given a NAME to a person, this fact indicates Lazarus is a REAL PERSON. Why then was the Rich Man not NAMED? Because the Rich Man had FIVE brothers, a FACT that would be TOTALLY NOT NEEDED in a Parable. I think it clearly indicates that at least ONE or maybe even ALL FIVE of the brothers were standing there listening to JESUS, and there is no way Jesus would embarrass those FIVE Brothers publicly by Naming their Brother and describing his sins, publicly.

If you need more proof, Check it out and you will find that Jesus NEVER gave names to characters in Parables:

Malachi 3:6 (NKJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] "For I am the LORD, I do not change;
Therefore you are not consumed, O sons of Jacob.

1 Peter 4:8 (HCSB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Above all, maintain an intense love for each other,
since love covers a multitude of sins.

 

[Magenta]

It is not a Parable, it is a biographical true story. NO WHERE IN SCRIPTURE does it say it was a Parable.

Nowhere in Scripture does it say it is not a parable. Nowhere in Scripture are we told this is a biographical story as you assert.

IN NONE of the Parables that JESUS TOLD, was there given a NAME to a person, this fact indicates Lazarus is a REAL PERSON. Why then was the Rich Man not NAMED? Because the Rich Man had

FIVE brothers, a FACT that would be TOTALLY NOT NEEDED in a Parable.

The story is unique to Luke, but just because a person is named in it does not mean it is describing a biographical reality and cannot be a parable. It is given immediately following the parables of the lost sheep , the lost coin, the lost (prodigal) son. The language used is, "Jesus told (them) this story" in three out of the four parables, including Lazarus and the rich man.

I think it clearly indicates that at least ONE or maybe even ALL FIVE of the brothers were standing there listening to JESUS, and there is no way Jesus would embarrass those

FIVE Brothers

publicly by Naming their Brother and describing his sins, publicly.

Your thinking is interesting on the matter. According to the Bible, death is a state of unconscious sleep. People are being warned that our choices in life affect our eternal destiny. There is no getting around that.

If you need more proof, Check it out and you will find that Jesus NEVER gave names to characters in Parables

Many accept it as a parable, as do I. Therefore, there is a parable with a character named. Naming a character in a parable does not mean God has changed as you would like to suggest.

Some may find this page interesting.

Something in your post is messing with the editing.

 

[mwc68]

When you pray the Rosary you are worshiping Mary. When you pray the Hail Mary you are worshiping Mary.

Are you saying that when a person says the Lord's Prayer he is not worshiping God?

What is disturbing is your lack of total devotion to God only. Only God deserves our devotion. Only God deserves our total attention to Him only.

You cannot serve two Masters mwc68. You cannot serve God and Mary. Its either God only or Mary only, you cannot do both.

Matthew 6:24
[SUP]24 [/SUP] "No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other.

Take your choice mwc68, who will you serve, God or Mary?

Well, thank the Lord i don't serve two masters!

 

[mwc68]

What is disturbing is you total devotion to Mary who was a sinner. Its God who should have your total devotion mw68, not Mary.

Galatians 5:19-21 (NKJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
[SUP]20 [/SUP] idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,
[SUP]21 [/SUP] envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Look carefully VCO at what God says in these verses. First of all He is not talking about non believers, He is talking about those who claim to be Christians and Catholics.

God is saying that those who PRACTICE Idolatry cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. Catholics are practicing Idolatry every time they say the Hail Mary because we are only to pray to God.

Catholics who say the Hail Mary are Idolaters and will not inherit the Kingdom of God because they practice being Idolaters by praying to Mary.

In these verses God is not talking to non believers, He is talking to the Catholics and Christians who refuse to stop sinning.

You really need to look up the definition of idolatry and then write the word and and its definition a hundred times. You have no idea what idolatry is!

 

[bondservant]

Mwc68 I've read the past post and have prayed for discernment, it is hard to express the compassion and urgency when communicating like this. You say a dead horse and there attacking me . A lot of the saints here are trying to prove a point and get a little reckless and I apologized for that. But you know what Mwc68 by what I've seen, you are munched loved. I see your sincerity in loving God . It is a hard thing to lay down what we think is right. All of us have been through it one way or another,
Let the saints here that you trust to show you the truth walk you through the scriptures. Truthfully. I've never heard of any one being saved by the doctrine of men. In the gospels which is what I preach read about the woman at the well Jesus shows their is a right way to worship. In the gospels it tells that Mary and Joseph offer up a sin offering. Moses was told to remove his shoes, Cain was told to bring the right offering, and Jesus said he is the only way. We have a jealous God and he shares his glory with no one. In Jeremiah 1:5 we see the Lord ordained him before he was born the same with Mary. To be blessed among women she was to give birth to her savior, she excepted the hardship she would face and trusted God to see her through and at the end of the day she would see her son slain like a helpless lamb. No where is it mentiond she was Devine in any way but by excepting God's word at God's word she was blessed. Look again at her reply to God. And the song she sung.

 

[VCO]

It does not matter if the Soul lives on after death or dies during death. This is the type of Doctrine we can agree or disagree on and debate without any problems.

What does matter is the Doctrine of Mary being without sin. Clearly God says ALL have sinned. Its Doctrines like these that oppose the teachings of God that need no debate but are to be rejected as lies from Satan.

HEY, I have had SEVERAL Charismatic Extremists over the Years try to tell me that they never sin; and they were coequally WRONG TOO. And I never told them that they were spreading lies from SATAN. All I ever said to them that they were confused and needed to study some more on what all GOD considers SIN.

You really NEED to come down off your high horse, HUMBLE YOURSELF, and offer a very sincere Apology to the Catholics and GOD. Confused and ignorant of all the facts, does not make one spreading the lies of Satan.

YOUR WHOLE ATTITUDE IS SIN:

Philippians 4:5 (NKJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Let your gentleness be known to all men. The Lord is at hand.

1 John 4:20 (NRSV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Those who say, "I love God," and hate their brothers or sisters, are liars; for those who do not love a brother or sister whom they have seen, cannot love God whom they have not seen.

Galatians 6:1 (ESV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted.

Galatians 5:22-23 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
[SUP]23 [/SUP] gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.


WHY IS IT WE SEE NO FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT COMING FROM YOU WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE CATHOLICS.

 

[Mec99]

Catholics can be confused and ignorant of all the facts, but once they know the Truth and keep on teaching the lies of the Catholic Church they are knowingly spreading the lies of Satan.

God will hold them accountable for this.

 

[Mec99]

So VCO are you saying Jesus needed to come down off his high horse when he taught the people about what they were doing was a sin?

 

[KenAllan]

What does it matter if Lazarus and the Rich man is a parable or a True story?

What this story does prove is the Doctrine of Purgatory is a false Doctrine. Because Lazarus was with God after he died. He spent no time in Purgatory like the Catholics teach.

 

[mwc68]

Mwc68 I've read the past post and have prayed for discernment, it is hard to express the compassion and urgency when communicating like this. You say a dead horse and there attacking me . A lot of the saints here are trying to prove a point and get a little reckless and I apologized for that. But you know what Mwc68 by what I've seen, you are munched loved. I see your sincerity in loving God . It is a hard thing to lay down what we think is right. All of us have been through it one way or another,
Let the saints here that you trust to show you the truth walk you through the scriptures. Truthfully. I've never heard of any one being saved by the doctrine of men. In the gospels which is what I preach read about the woman at the well Jesus shows their is a right way to worship. In the gospels it tells that Mary and Joseph offer up a sin offering. Moses was told to remove his shoes, Cain was told to bring the right offering, and Jesus said he is the only way. We have a jealous God and he shares his glory with no one. In Jeremiah 1:5 we see the Lord ordained him before he was born the same with Mary. To be blessed among women she was to give birth to her savior, she excepted the hardship she would face and trusted God to see her through and at the end of the day she would see her son slain like a helpless lamb. No where is it mentiond she was Devine in any way but by excepting God's word at God's word she was blessed. Look again at her reply to God. And the song she sung.

None of us has said she is divine. That is what Mec and Ken want you to think. They are lying about Catholicism daily here at CC