Is the Devil bound right now...?

[GuessWho]

Re: See right through you...

I think you are both saying the same things but emphasize different aspects.

Bowman is talking about the sacrifice on the cross (4 Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil— 15 and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.) and Cassian is talking about the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

I believe Cassian gives a wider perspective on the gospel and it is unfair, thus unchristian, to call him a lier just because he refuses the protestant logic of reducing the gospel to one or two bible verses.

I remember when Reza Aslan said, in an interview, that Christianity is a movement started by Christ' death (!!!). I felt anger and I wish Cassian was there to inform him that it is Christ' resurrection that changed the world and made the apostles give up their lives rather than deny Jesus Christ.

 

[beingJustifiedFreely]

Satan and his angels are currently in the heavenly places (outer space) and will be cast into the earth during mid tribulation. Revelation 12 check it.

 

[Bowman]

Re: See right through you...

I think you are both saying the same things but emphasize different aspects.

Bowman is talking about the sacrifice on the cross (4 Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil—15 and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.) and Cassian is talking about the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Actually....we are saying two entirely different things...

As you pointed out, scripture mandates that Satan was rendered impotent at the Cross....the point of this thread...btw...

Cassian asserts (without scriptural proof) that Satan was bound at the Resurrection of Christ.

I believe Cassian gives a wider perspective on the gospel and it is unfair, thus unchristian, to call him a lier just because he refuses the protestant logic of reducing the gospel to one or two bible verses.

No....he lied about knowing what verse I posted in Greek...

 

[Bowman]

Satan and his angels are currently in the heavenly places (outer space) and will be cast into the earth during mid tribulation. Revelation 12 check it.

How so....?

 

[valiant]

Satan and his angels are currently in the heavenly places (outer space) and will be cast into the earth during mid tribulation. Revelation 12 check it.

Lol since when have the heavenlies where we are seated with Christ NOW (Ephe 2.6) been in outer space. ? I look around me. I see no outer space!!!! The heavenlies are the spiritual realm. They are NOT in this universe.

 

[valiant]

Re: See right through you...

I think you are both saying the same things but emphasize different aspects.

Bowman is talking about the sacrifice on the cross (4 Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil—15 and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.) and Cassian is talking about the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

I believe Cassian gives a wider perspective on the gospel and it is unfair, thus unchristian, to call him a lier just because he refuses the protestant logic of reducing the gospel to one or two bible verses.

I remember when Reza Aslan said, in an interview, that Christianity is a movement started by Christ' death (!!!). I felt anger and I wish Cassian was there to inform him that it is Christ' resurrection that changed the world and made the apostles give up their lives rather than deny Jesus Christ.

I hate to have to suggest that you are wrong. But you are. Without the cross the resurrection would have been meaningless. Conversely, without the resurrection the cross would have been meaningless. The two are part of the one saving activity of God. Christianity was a movement (if we can call it such) started by Christ's death AND resurrection.

As Paul says, I determined to know nothing but Christ and HIM CRUCIFIED. God forbid that I should glory except in the CROSS of our Lord Jesus Christ

 

[Cassian]

Re: See right through you...

Valiant,

How could GuessWho been incorrect when you reiterated what she stated. It is also the understanding that I have been giving as well.
It must be take as a whole. The death of Christ and His descension into Hades is the initial step in Christ defeating death and Satan. If Christ ONLY died, bound Satan and never arose from the dead, Satan would have not been bound. In fact, it would have been Christ that was bound having succumbed to death as all human beings. It is only by His Resurrection that Satan is actually bound, since death, His power has been defeated.

 

[valiant]

Re: See right through you...

Valiant,

How could GuessWho been incorrect when you reiterated what she stated.

It is NOT what she stated. She replaced the cross by the resurrection.

It is also the understanding that I have been giving as well.
It must be take as a whole. The death of Christ and His descension into Hades is the initial step in Christ defeating death and Satan. If Christ ONLY died, bound Satan and never arose from the dead, Satan would have not been bound. In fact, it would have been Christ that was bound having succumbed to death as all human beings. It is only by His Resurrection that Satan is actually bound, since death, His power has been defeated.

Christ's body went into the grave. His Spirit went into the presence of God along with that of the dying thief. Christ proclaiming in Hades (1 Pet 3) was AFTER the resurrection. Satan was bound BEFORE Christ died. He was bound in Matt 12.28-29.

 

[Cassian]

Re: See right through you...

It is NOT what she stated. She replaced the cross by the resurrection.





Christ's body went into the grave. His Spirit went into the presence of God along with that of the dying thief. Christ proclaiming in Hades (1 Pet 3) was AFTER the resurrection. Satan was bound BEFORE Christ died. He was bound in Matt 12.28-29.

We are all over the place on this.

Obviously, you have some other definition of being bound than what scripture describes. Matt 12:28 has nothing to do with the binding of Satan.
There is no verse in I Pet 3 that addresses Christ decending into Hades nor being bound.

Bouman wants Christ bound by death, but has nothing that consummates that binding. He has yet to explain just how the death of Christ binds Satan that has any effect upon man and his salvation. Without the resurrection and actually defeating death by giving life is death defeated, thus Satan bound. The two cannot be separated without missing the why, how of Christ's victory over death and Satan. As long as Christ remains dead, Satan cannot be bound, but Christ would actually be bound since death is the power of Satan.l

 

[beingJustifiedFreely]

Lol since when have the heavenlies where we are seated with Christ NOW (Ephe 2.6) been in outer space. ? I look around me. I see no outer space!!!! The heavenlies are the spiritual realm. They are NOT in this universe.

Romans 4:17
17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
God can call us there already even though we are not there yet.
The heavenly places is where spiritual wickedness lies, principalities and powers, those are the devils and satan up there. But their time is coming to an end.

 

[Bowman]

Re: See right through you...

Bouman wants Christ bound by death, but has nothing that consummates that binding. He has yet to explain just how the death of Christ binds Satan that has any effect upon man and his salvation. Without the resurrection and actually defeating death by giving life is death defeated, thus Satan bound. The two cannot be separated without missing the why, how of Christ's victory over death and Satan. As long as Christ remains dead, Satan cannot be bound, but Christ would actually be bound since death is the power of Satan.l

I showed you directly in scripture where Jesus' death renders Satan impotent, and his impotency allows mankind a period of time to come to Jesus without Satan blocking the way.

Your task would be to SCRIPTURALLY refute what I showed you.

So far...all you can do is assert WITHOUT scripturally explaining anything at all.

Don't be afraid to talk DIRECTLY to scripture.

 

[Cassian]

Re: See right through you...

I showed you directly in scripture where Jesus' death renders Satan impotent, and his impotency allows mankind a period of time to come to Jesus without Satan blocking the way.

Your task would be to SCRIPTURALLY refute what I showed you.

So far...all you can do is assert WITHOUT scripturally explaining anything at all.

Don't be afraid to talk DIRECTLY to scripture.

And just how is Satan made impotent simply by Christ dying, thus binding HIM?

How does Christ bind Him, when death is the power of Satan?

And just how does anyone come to Christ when He is in Hades?

And how is death and Satan defeated when Christ remains in Hades?

 

[Bowman]

Re: See right through you...

And just how is Satan made impotent simply by Christ dying, thus binding HIM?

How does Christ bind Him, when death is the power of Satan?

And just how does anyone come to Christ when He is in Hades?

And how is death and Satan defeated when Christ remains in Hades?

Sacrificial death has always been madated by Yahweh, beginning in Genesis.

Physical death has always provided mankind with a respite.

The difference in the NT is that God, Himself, was the Sacrifice.

 

[valiant]

Romans 4:17
17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
God can call us there already even though we are not there yet.
The heavenly places is where spiritual wickedness lies, principalities and powers, those are the devils and satan up there. But their time is coming to an end.

lol some of you have such inventive minds. Find an obscure phrase and you will read into it whatever pleases you. Then you call it Scriptural LOL

Of course there is evil in the spiritual realm. Indeed the forces of evil are spiritual.But we are also in the spiritual realm where we live and reign with Christ as do the saints above (Rev 20.4-5). This is where the Christians true battle takes place but he is an overcomer in Christ. BUT NONE OF IT IS IN OUTER SPACE. That is simply a myth.

 

[Cassian]

Re: See right through you...

Sacrificial death has always been madated by Yahweh, beginning in Genesis.

the atonement accomplished two things. The sacrifice for sin to which you are referring only required death, the shedding of blood. It does not require a resurrection.

Physical death has always provided mankind with a respite.

This is the death to which man was condemned through Adam. This is the death which Christ came to defeat because it was the power of Satan. This death in order to be defeated, thus Satan bound, requires a resurrection. It is the resurrection, life, an eternal existence that defeats Satan and binds Him because now He no longer has control over man through death.

The difference in the NT is that God, Himself, was the Sacrifice.[/quote] which would be meaningless without the resurrection. If man has no eternal existence, a sacrifice for sin is quite meaningless.

Because you want to separate the events of salvation you actually make them void. The death of Christ presupposes a resurrection which is what makes the binding of Satan by His death possible. He meets Satan in His realm and uses his power of death to defeat Him through His own resurrection.

 

[valiant]

Re: See right through you...

We are all over the place on this.

Obviously, you have some other definition of being bound than what scripture describes. Matt 12:28 has nothing to do with the binding of Satan.

Mat 12:28-29 But if I by the Spirit of God cast out devils, then is the kingdom of God come upon you. Or how can one enter into the house of the strong man, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

Seems clear to me that He had bound the strong man by the Spirit of God, and that the strong man was thenceforward bound. Jesus was able to cast out evil spirits BECAUSE teh strong man had been bound.

There is no verse in I Pet 3 that addresses Christ descending into Hades nor being bound.

1 Pet 3.18-19 being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the Spirit; in which also He went and preached to the spirits in prison,

where do you think the spirits in prison were?

I guess you have a different Bible from me? Mine is based on the Greek text.

 

[Bowman]

Re: See right through you...

the atonement accomplished two things. The sacrifice for sin to which you are referring only required death, the shedding of blood. It does not require a resurrection.



This is the death to which man was condemned through Adam. This is the death which Christ came to defeat because it was the power of Satan. This death in order to be defeated, thus Satan bound, requires a resurrection. It is the resurrection, life, an eternal existence that defeats Satan and binds Him because now He no longer has control over man through death.

which would be meaningless without the resurrection. If man has no eternal existence, a sacrifice for sin is quite meaningless.
Because you want to separate the events of salvation you actually make them void. The death of Christ presupposes a resurrection which is what makes the binding of Satan by His death possible. He meets Satan in His realm and uses his power of death to defeat Him through His own resurrection.

Defend your position with scripture.

 

[Bowman]

Re: See right through you...

Bowman: ‘Let’s talk scripture.’

Cassian: ‘No thanks, can’t be bothered, I would rather talk man-made theology.’

 

[Cassian]

Re: See right through you...

Bowman: ‘Let’s talk scripture.’

Cassian: ‘No thanks, can’t be bothered, I would rather talk man-made theology.’

yes. let's talk scripture. Explain just how man is even effected by Christ binding Satan without rising from the dead?

If Christ remains in Hades, just how is Satan bound?

Who has the power of death?

You have Christ binding Satan but it has no meaning.

But I'll let you try to explain your view scripturally?

You are already speaking about man made theology, your view. It has no historical relevance to scripture without the resurrection which validates the binding.

 

[Cassian]

Valiant,

Mat 12:28-29 But if I by the Spirit of God cast out devils, then is the kingdom of God come upon you. Or how can one enter into the house of the strong man, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

Seems clear to me that He had bound the strong man by the Spirit of God, and that the strong man was thenceforward bound. Jesus was able to cast out evil spirits BECAUSE the strong man had been bound.

The Spirit did not bind Satan. Christ was casting out demons which showed His divinity.

If you put that verse in context with His death and decending into Hades, then you have Christ entering the strong man's house. The Spoils is mankind who were there because of death, being held captive by Satan through His power of death.

The ONLY thing that defeats death is Christ's resurrection. Christ must needs died in order to do that, but death of itself cannot bind Satan, nor defeat death.

1 Pet 3.18-19 being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the Spirit; in which also He went and preached to the spirits in prison,

Next time cite the verses rather than just the chapter.

However, it reiterates that Christ bound Satan at the time of His descension into Hades. It is His resurrection that confirms that Satan is bound in that he no longer has absolute power through death.