How to Spot a Legalist

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
Morning FreeNChrist,

I totally agree with all that you said in your post. This subject is I believe, one of the biggest deceptions that Satan has perpetrated to remove people from the truth. They claim salvation by grace through faith, but then through circumvention and the twisting of Scripture, they come right back around and end up with salvation by works. It's like they have spiritual blinders on. A good example of this are those who teach the keeping of Sabbath on Saturday as a requirement for salvation. So then salvation becomes faith in the shed blood of Christ and the keeping of the Sabbath on Saturday and whatever else they've added. The last requirement kills the first one! Paul made it clear though that those who put themselves under the works of the law or any works for the sake of obtaining or maintaining salvation have been alienated from Christ and have wandered away from grace. I believe that the NTL version really drives the point home:

"God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God. Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it." (Eph.2:8-9)

Before I go outside I do not get my bible out and go over the ten commandments so as to make sure that I don't break any of them nor do I even think upon them. I follow Christ and am led by the Spirit! When I am out and about and God provides a good work for me to do I am not thinking "Oh good, another good work to maintain my salvation." Having the Holy Spirit, we should naturally have a desire to do good works, but not for the sake of obtaining or maintaining salvation, but for the purpose of glorifying God, being about his business and also by doing so, the Lord says that we are building up our treasures in heaven.

We should always be secure in knowing that our salvation has already been provided by the Lord's sacrifice as a free gift, that he alone purchased men for God with his blood and there is nothing that we can do or need to do to add to that. It's a done deal! In my opinion, anyone who brings in any works as a requirement for salvation along side Christ's shed blood is basically saying that his sacrifice was insufficient.

I have to keep going back to the father of faith, father Abraham, who was credited with righteousness because he believed God. God made a promise to him and he settled it in his heart that God was able to and would do what he said, and that's it. He had faith and it had nothing to do with good works, feeding and clothing the poor, being circumcised, the keeping of the law or anything else. But he was credited with righteousness by faith and faith alone. And we are the spiritual children of Abraham having the same faith and are also credited with righteousness.

The man who was crucified with Christ is an example of the simplicity of salvation when he said, "Lord, remember me when you come into your kingdom," and that one act of faith saved him. He couldn't come down to even be baptized, much less perform any works or be circumcised, but just by acknowledging Christ as Lord.

May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ
Really good stuff! Reminded me of a quote from Max Lucado,

"Grace is everything Jesus. Grace lives because he does, works because he works, and matters because he matters. He placed a term limit on sin and danced a victory jig in a graveyard. To be saved by grace is to be saved by him – not by an idea, doctrine, creed, or church membership, but by Jesus himself, who will sweep into heaven anyone who so much as gives him the nod."
 
K

KennethC

Guest
Never ceases to amaze me how some can get every point wrong. Confirms the necessity of the Holy Spirit to open the scriptures and give understanding.

They were the same people in the upper room that spoke at Pentecost. The Philippian jailer was water baptized after he believed. The eunuch was water baptized after he believed and Philip made it clear that belief was necessary before water baptism.

What keeps you from allowing Christ to save you?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
After they believed yes, but I was not talking about after they believed.

I was talking about before they received the Holy Spirit, to separate issues !!!
 
K

KennethC

Guest
Jesus is LIFE ...JOHN 14:6
Ephesians 1:13
In Whom ye also
trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in Whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Jesus is life and it is by His gospel that leads to salvation by trusting in His words in the gospel books which is the total foundation. He and His words are all One !!!
 
Mar 4, 2013
7,761
107
0
I do trust in the Lord for my salvation and again the uncalled for false accusation is not called for.

I believe exactly what you said in the second quote but you left off one piece, and that is:

"Jesus came in the flesh, was crucified for our sins, and was resurrected on the third day"

This is true but if you think just by stating this one quote or believing in this one quote is what saves then you missed a lot of Jesus teachings. This is the foundation of the faith in Christ and we are told to build on that foundation, and we do that by keeping and obey all that the Lord commanded.

The Great Commission says that all believers are to observe/obey all that the He commanded, not part or whatever things we want to.

I believe in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior and because of that love and trust I have for Him, I also trust in all that He said which is the sign of a true faith which is why I defend His teachings and commands.

Even Jesus says why do you call Him Lord if you do not do the things He said ??????????

He follows that up with those who truly believe in Him will do what He said, and those who have a false profession will not and will fall to perdition !!!
AMEN Brother in Christ!!

"For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.!!" Matthew 12:50

"For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed." Malachi 3:6
 
K

KennethC

Guest
v 32 FORGAVE. past tense. already done. we do the others verses because we ARE. not to GET.
Also wanted to state out of that whole chapter from Ephesians 4 from Apostle Paul all you focus on is the last verse, what about all the rest where Paul clearly breaks it down that we can not walk how we use to walk in sinful ways or that shows you have not learned Christ ???
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,738
3,667
113
Ephesians 1:13
In Whom ye also
trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in Whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Jesus is life and it is by His gospel that leads to salvation by trusting in His words in the gospel books which is the total foundation. He and His words are all One !!!
He who has the Son has LIFE.
It's funny how you try to slide from the Person of Christ to His teachings...

John 5:39-40 (KJV)
39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
After they believed yes, but I was not talking about after they believed.

I was talking about before they received the Holy Spirit, to separate issues !!!
You are talking nonsense.

One does not believe according to their own will. The Holy Spirit ministers through the word of God bringing conviction of sin, righteousness and judgment. Believing Gods word produces the faith needed to receive Gods grace which provides the gift of salvation. The Holy Spirit is He who quickens the soul dead in sin and trespass. By the Holy Spirit man is changed from dead in trespass and sin into life eternal in Christ Jesus.

You need to receive Christ and be saved.

Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Mar 4, 2013
7,761
107
0
Also wanted to state out of that whole chapter from Ephesians 4 from Apostle Paul all you focus on is the last verse, what about all the rest where Paul clearly breaks it down that we can not walk how we use to walk in sinful ways or that shows you have not learned Christ ???
Hey Ken.
In my opinion (because it worked before for me) after all this time that you have contended for the faith as Jude said, it is proven futile to continue to strive with these people. You have made your point very clear. Let them who agree with each other converse between themselves and the thread will die. It works every time.

With that said, be ready to start all over again on another thread, as they stalk people like us and begin to refute with the same rhetoric. It's never ending, yet laughably very sad, for within my heart I know their end result if repentance doesn't take hold. Of course that's not in the cards (so to speak) for conviction is not part of their beliefs.

The whole purpose is to stop real edification, and discourage those who are newcomers, sincere people who really want to lean and grow in God's grace, or even guests wanting to find the real truth for themselves.

Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. Romans 16:17

The stalker is the instigator.

 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,738
3,667
113
2 Peter 1:2-3 (KJV)

2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

Think for a moment. If "He has GIVEN us all things that pertains unto life and godliness", what is it you are working for?
"Given" implies a gift already bestowed...not something to be earned.
 
Last edited:
K

KennethC

Guest
He who has the Son has LIFE.
It's funny how you try to slide from the Person of Christ to His teachings...

John 5:39-40 (KJV)
39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
It is not sliding crossnote it is simple truth; If you believe and trust in the Lord for salvation, then you believe and trust in what He said to do also.

Even our Lord Jesus points out this simple truth !!!




You are talking nonsense.

One does not believe according to their own will. The Holy Spirit ministers through the word of God bringing conviction of sin, righteousness and judgment. Believing Gods word produces the faith needed to receive Gods grace which provides the gift of salvation. The Holy Spirit is He who quickens the soul dead in sin and trespass. By the Holy Spirit man is changed from dead in trespass and sin into life eternal in Christ Jesus.

You need to receive Christ and be saved.

Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I have already received Christ and you false accusations are unbecoming of a Christian...

You can not change the biblical standard of Acts 2:38, Acts 3:19, and Acts 19:2-6, and to do so is twisting His word.

The Holy Spirit does do as you say but that is when you receive Him and that is not a minute one of faith unless you have automatically repented and got baptized in Christ at that minute as well.

You can call me not saved all you want because I do not have to answer to you, and you do realize stating that on somebody is improper judgment???

I answer to the Lord our God and not man, and by the Holy Spirit I know I have in me I trust He is guided me in the Truth because what He says aligns with the word.

But I think I remember you say at one time that the Holy Spirit only speaks through the word and not personally to the believer, am I right on that ???? If so I can tell you that is not right because I hear Him speaking to me even when I don't have a bible in front of me !!!
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,738
3,667
113
Hey Ken.
In my opinion (because it worked before for me) after all this time that you have contended for the faith as Jude said, it is proven futile to continue to strive with these people. You have made your point very clear. Let them who agree with each other converse between themselves and the thread will die. It works every time.

With that said, be ready to start all over again on another thread, as they stalk people like us and begin to refute with the same rhetoric. It's never ending, yet laughably very sad, for within my heart I know their end result if repentance doesn't take hold. Of course that's not in the cards (so to speak) for conviction is not part of their beliefs.

The whole purpose is to stop real edification, and discourage those who are newcomers, sincere people who really want to lean and grow in God's grace, or even guests wanting to find the real truth for themselves.

Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. Romans 16:17

The stalker is the instigator.

Strange. If you go back to the beginning of this thread, it started out with how to spot a legalist...until the legalists came and then things got contentious.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,738
3,667
113
It is not sliding crossnote it is simple truth; If you believe and trust in the Lord for salvation, then you believe and trust in what He said to do also.

Even our Lord Jesus points out this simple truth !!!
What or Who saves and sanctifies you?
Your obedience to the law or His?
 
K

KennethC

Guest
2 Peter 1:2-3 (KJV)

2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

Think for a moment. If "He has GIVEN us all things that pertains unto life and godliness", what is it you are working for?
"Given" implies a gift already bestowed...not something to be earned.
This is speaking of the teachings and commands He gave us along with the Holy Spirit who is sent to help us to stay on the right path through Him to salvation. It is not saying there is nothing left to do, and look how Paul speaks on this as well:

1 Timothy 4:8
For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.

Life that now is and the life (eternal life) that is to come............................
 
Mar 4, 2013
7,761
107
0
Strange. If you go back to the beginning of this thread, it started out with how to spot a legalist...until the legalists came and then things got contentious.
I'll concede and admit I made the 5th post on the thread as follows;
We love them (haven't seen that yet in CC) so my suggestion would be to follow suit with Paul.

Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ. 1 Corinthians 11:1

"And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. 1 Corinthians 9:20-21

Maybe we are just marking them so we can argue against them and call them names like "legalist" so others will follow our example maybe? Of course if we do that, we are not following Paul's example as he was in Christ. Ya think?

 
K

KennethC

Guest
What or Who saves and sanctifies you?
Your obedience to the law or His?
A true faith in the Lord Jesus Christ that puts us under God's grace is what saves........................not obedience to the Mosaic law..........Again Jesus teachings and commands are not the LAW, and until you realize that this debate will go nowhere !!!
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,738
3,667
113
This is speaking of the teachings and commands He gave us along with the Holy Spirit who is sent to help us to stay on the right path through Him to salvation. It is not saying there is nothing left to do, and look how Paul speaks on this as well:

1 Timothy 4:8
For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.

Life that now is and the life (eternal life) that is to come............................
You simply don't understand what a gift is do you?

Romans 5:15-17 (KJV)
15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

psst, it comes packaged in the Person of Jesus Christ.
 
K

KennethC

Guest
Strange. If you go back to the beginning of this thread, it started out with how to spot a legalist...until the legalists came and then things got contentious.
Who became the contentious ones though, and who do you consider a legalist ???

Because I have not gotten contentious with anybody, and a legalist is only a person who tries to force written ordinances of the Mosaic law on believers. Both of which I have not nor do not do !!!

Any teaching other then that of the forcing to the written ordinances of the Mosaic laws on believers as being legalism is a lie..............
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,738
3,667
113
What or Who saves and sanctifies you?
Your obedience to the law or His?
A true faith in the Lord Jesus Christ that puts us under God's grace is what saves........................not obedience to the Mosaic law..........Again Jesus teachings and commands are not the LAW, and until you realize that this debate will go nowhere !!!
So our salvation is dependent on true faith? But in what or Who?
Who is our Savior?...answer Jesus.
Who sanctifies us? ..answer the Holy Spirit.

Our faith is in Him...it really isn't rocket science.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,738
3,667
113
Who became the contentious ones though, and who do you consider a legalist ???

Because I have not gotten contentious with anybody, and a legalist is only a person who tries to force written ordinances of the Mosaic law on believers. Both of which I have not nor do not do !!!

Any teaching other then that of the forcing to the written ordinances of the Mosaic laws on believers as being legalism is a lie..............
Ever occur to you that attempting to live out Christ's commands in your own strength is a form of legalism?